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Perfect Pricing

We've got to do in a short period of time pricing and selling obviously they're big topics so we'll cover the important nuggets now sound good say as if it does weigh have to remember the context how it all works together so if you've been watching every single segment like you guys have you're getting pretty good pretty clear on how the whole system works but it's important that I continue to articulate it so that anybody who's just tuned in we're over there and if you've just tuned in even if you've only been here maybe just for a couple of the sessions today you still need to make sure you understand how all of what I'm teaching you fits together so we remember that there are four modules and book yourself solved we are now working on our third which is perfect pricing and simple selling that's the third module the fourth module are the six core self promotion strategies how many are optional how many are mandatory when will you learn which ones are mandatory in which ones are optio...

nal that's right what does marketing do get us clients no what does it do? It creates that's right people become aware of us through our six core self promotion strategies networking direct outreach referrals writing speaking, keeping in touch no webb keeping touch actually used to be one neighborhood told you can change these things around keeping dutch used to be in this self promotion section they used to be seven I moved it two module to because really keeping in touch is not the marketing some promotional tactic it's a sales tactic and I need to be part of the sale cycle so she's in the wrong place just needed to be moved so there are six core self promotion strategies networking direct outreach referrals, writing speaking and webb those create awareness people come and check out your what that's right if your foundation is then they will give you an opportunity to earn there trust is built over not in an instant we then make sales offers that are proportionate to the amount of trust that we've earned and today we learned how to do that today you learned how to increase your likability how to make sure that you can demonstrate that you are category authority make sure that you've got the standard credibility builders in place that you've designed a sale cycle the builds trust over time with multiple stages no barrier to entry monetized but still not a big barrier and then the bear core offering you've also looked at what kind of keep in touch strategies you're going to use and you just learned how to create information products to increase your credibility and speed up the pace of the sale cycle in a very easy way to access the production of those information products. Yesterday you developed a red velvet rope policy so you work on ly with ideal clients, clients that energize you, inspire you and most importantly, allow you to do what you're best work, because what happens out in the world when you're doing your best work? Two things number one people are talking about your best work and number two you love every minute of the work you do and what does that do? It makes you want to do more of it. And if you want to do more of the work you do, you might be compelled to do more marketing. And if you love every minute of the work you do, maybe call me crazy people have before maybe you'll fall in love with marketing inside you got a red velvet rope. You also understand why people buy what you're selling. You have a target market and you know exactly why so you know where to find them when you show up there, they know your dedicated to them. They already have established networks of communication, you know, their needs and desires. You know, the big result that you help people get the thing you could hang your hat on and, you know, the deep rooted core benefits of that result from a financial, emotional, physical and spiritual perspective, you developed a personal brand identity. So you decide how you're known in the world don't let other people do it for you you've gotta who into what statement you have a why you do it statement and you started to create a tagline based on why you get up every day to do this work and as a result having a red velvet rope policy understanding why people by what we're selling developing a personal brand identity you can now talk about what you do without using an elevator speech because we are on a mission to what hill the elevator speech so now because you know who you serve, you know their needs and desires you know the results you bring them you know the benefits you can talk about what you do in three seconds thirty seconds, three minutes three hours, three weeks it doesn't matter you now are confident and when you're confident and you know these things talk about your business is easy so that is our foundation today we worked on building trust and credibility now let's do perfect pricing and simple selling and tomorrow you will learn the six core self promotion strategies sound good say as if it does oh my god pricing is a this is like one of those things where it was like I don't want my sister price but how am I supposed to know what to charge that's he's just charge as much as yeah look done okay, I'll see you later. Bye, everybody but actually kept walking and just walked right out there you go, that's it all right, now look in book yourself. Solid illustrated I have identified a number of models pricing models that you can use to understand how to relate to a particular buyer. So for example, a very simple pricing model his trading time for money. Okay, trading time for money. Very simple pricing model. But there are other pricing models as well. Some people use a retainer model so on the global business mentor for reebok won and I have an ongoing retainer type relationship with them. Now, sometimes a retainer has a finite period of time wrapped around it gonna start here, we're gonna go to hear sometimes it's open ended. There are also fixed pricing strategies for very specific delivery. Bles, a website designer may say you can have this website for this amount of money now run into problems sometimes with that kind of pricing model it's called project creep and this is different than working on a project with a creep, although that sucks too. Project kr ief is when the project gets bigger and bigger and bigger but you don't get more money so you have to be very good at setting those expectations and managing those expectations now there's also fixed pricing for an undetermined the amount of work that's a little tricky some people will do that well I'll work with you for a month and I'll discharge you this no real strong expectations around so you might say well it's training time for money but when it's a month there's a lot of hours in a month it's not just one hour or two hours there is a back end pricing model for example if your ah programmer designer you know software programmer you might say all right I will build that for you but I want x percent of every item sold you know for eternity you could do a retainer plus a back end I want to take a retainer of x number of dollars but because you can't or don't want to pay my regular retainer but I believe in this project I'm gonna take that retainer plus I'm going to take these points on the back at this percentage on the back hollywood does that often with stars okay we don't want to give you twenty million so we'll give you fifteen million you'll suffer through fifteen million but will give us points on the back what other models might there be a any ideas anything spring to mind prestige pricing bundle pricing absolutely so let's talk about those two prestige you price yourself at the highest end of your market so you're saying right at the beginning this is prestige work you're setting yourself apart now people say, well, how can I do that can just try to do that and just decide that I want to charge really high rates. Yeah, you can. Now, let's, just do some math for a second. Math is not my strong suit, but let's, just do some math. Anybody really good at math here is gonna be pretty basic math. So you don't have to be that good. You're good at math. So let's say we charge one hundred dollars for one out. Okay. Let's say you charge a hundred dollars for one hour and you charge a thousand dollars for one hour. How many hours do you need to work to make a thousand ten hours? You were supposed to do that ten hours. So you gotta work ten hours to make the same thing that you made in an hour. So you might need to get ten clients. Well, you only need to get one client. So I had an acupuncturist was great guy super experience in his late sixties. Been doing this forever very, very popular in the town that I live. He was always complaining how exhausted he was because he was booked up and he only charged fifty dollars a session, which is really low for a really experienced acupuncture, and so I said, I'm looking I don't want to pay more like I want to, but I do have to say you probably should just double your prices, he said cabin I'd lose half my patients, you could do that math, right? So let's just say he lost half his patients, he'd have twice as much free time, but would he actually lose half his patients let's just say he lost ten percent, he gets more time and he makes a heck of a lot more money, but he didn't see himself as worth charging one he had some paradigm constraint, a way of seeing the world constraint that said, I should only be charging this much in a number of you guys have and you'll make up all sorts of excuses well, my clients can afford well, maybe you're focusing on the wrong group or maybe they can. I was doing some consulting with fitness start up company and they were working on doing certifications so weekend certifications and I was talking about pricing and they said, well, this is what our plans when the price of two hundred forty eight dollars or something I said for the whole weekend certification they said, yeah that's what's normal in our industry, so why do you have to do it like everybody else? Because that's the way it is they kept going but that's the way it is can't he kept saying to me that kept arguing you cannot price it hire these people will not pay more these people will not pay more I said, you know, those same people are buying for me for about fifteen thousand dollars a pop so they will pay if they see the value in it and guess what they change to nothing they can't do the same I said that's it I'm done with you guys, I'm not working with you anymore because I said you can create a whole new way of looking at this you may initially bring in fewer sort of case, but if you're not concerned about the numbers right off the bat but you're focusing on the quality and the revenue well then certainly it might be a good move now you might use law lost leader pricing purposely pricing something low you may actually lose money or time, which is a resource that you would lose in order to get close to that particular buyer so they can see what else you have available. So that four week intensive that I was telling you about I its price, I think twelve hundred fifty dollars in the early bird on it it's four, ninety nine well, I don't make any money when I charge for ninety nine for course like that because I'm also giving them private coaching sessions with an elite level certified coach there's an investment of resource in that for me, but I know if they can work without coach they're going to get additional value they're going to see I want to keep doing this and even if they don't keep doing it, they'll say that course blew my mind and they're gonna go tell somebody else and that person may come in even if I'm not making money on that when they may then move to the next. But all of this is bringing mohr positive attention to the work so that's another model for consider bundled pricing is tammy mentioned you take a number you guys photographers should be thinking about bundled price we do these six things by each one separately or you could buy them together are you going by three of them together or all of them together? And as a result? Of course you're getting price breaks, so I want to think about what model would be most appropriate for you and when you're starting often trade time for money, simplest way to go this is what I charge per hour now you might decide. Well, let me see if I can incentivize people to buy mohr off that thing that I sell at one time, so say running training well, she doesn't want to sell just one session she wants to sell twenty sessions, thirty sessions, fifty sessions she was a sell big packages of sessions right yeah so typically what's done one session cost this if you buy five sessions you get this discount ten sessions this discount twenty sessions to get this discount so you get a little bit more off each one that's very typical and it's a good idea that's fine it works but you also might want to consider instead of just discounting is adding bonuses adding additional value too so for example what if when she sold the twenty she said when you buy twenty you'll get this discount and I will also do a private clinic for you and twenty of your friends three hours now maybe the woman doesn't bring twenty friends maybe shouldn't springs ten but there's going to be your thing that you're all invited it's going to be your hosting this for them and I'm gonna come doing what do you think that does what is it do it brings mohr potential clients right to her doorstep so how do you create those kinds of incentives either through bundling or through adding additional value as well as using discounts now you might use discounts as a strategy to get people to take action or you may not you may use it on some things and not others I use it on uh lower price point programs and services but there's no discount service for doing a private consulting with me. All right there's there's no discount to the alliance with michael there's no discount to the code certification program because we're don't want to set up this mentality that you know we're trying to push this thing through discounts and you know this is what it is you come to a year training this is what it is there's no question everyone knows what it is everybody pays the same that's it now you might find ways to make it easy, like well structure, different payment plans for people based on what they need to make it easier for them but the price still stays the same you khun draw out extended payment plans, even passed the work you do with them so some people will take a two year payment plan for a one year a program but this way the money they make from doing the work pays for the program on into the future. So how do you respect yourself honoring your pricing and make it easy for them? That's the questions you always want to ask those questions you always want to ask valuing yourself and the work that you do is critical how many people when they say their prices, they get butterflies in the stomach raise your hand yeah, we want to try to do away with that here's an exercise that I suggest you do the next time somebody asks you what you charge just say four times as much as you say now to say see what happens may not hire you but they probably don't fall of their chair I did this once just as an experiment when I very first started I was charging five hundred dollars a month for a number of coaching sessions that's how I did in the beginning it was super simple simple and I say well, let me just play with this so the next time somebody asked me how much my sessions were I said it was fifteen hundred dollars an hour and now that's half of what I would charge per hour if I worked with somebody one on one but at that time I was kind of crazy so I was really nervous and I said and she just goes oh now she didn't hire him she wasn't really we weren't really in a sales conversation I used to teach yoga as a sort of a hobby job but also to meet more people who could be potential clients because I bring fifty people to a class and some of them would be service business owners so I always say, well, this is my hobby job here's what I actually d'oh now let's do some yoga so after she was asking about you know what he charged for that I told her ok, I went I didn't raise my prices to that but all of a sudden it clicked that other people and you are not gonna have a heart attack if you said a lot more than you say right now and you might be surprised because the way you resonate with the prices that you say to other people is the way it will often resonate with them if you say a number that you don't really believe in, they're not going to believe it either they don't know why they just don't know it just doesn't work for that but the way you say it is with this is the way it is they might not be able to afford it right now, but they made keep it top of mind because they may want to go there and when they find some incentive that you offer a little bit farther down the road in the sale cycle they have now is my time now is my chance so I want you to play with this as an exercise next time someone says what costume to a wedding double triple it and so now you're gonna say, but then I might lose that sale we might not have had that sell in the first place, but you also might get the sale at the higher price here's the thing just because your lower price than somebody else doesn't mean you're going to get the business in fact sometimes with certain kinds of services you want to pay top dollar so there was a little these things were done all the time but one particular example is um uh is trying to get people to um to assess the value of particular wine based on what they're told about the wine so here's a glass of wine and these are people who think they know why okay that's that's the most interesting thing so I wouldn't know anything about why these people know why here's a glass of wine and they say ah this is basically we got this is the like the kind of line that you buy at a drugstore or even a gas station etcetera etcetera here they go you know they do that thing you go oh no yet that's terrible and they do their it's not you know they grow and then they give me another one and they say well this one is like k mart wine and baba baba bus was like a little step up from the gas station wide and you're a little better but still terrible think of another one say this is a very exclusive wine from france it's a limited edition there's on ly a few made what do you think fabulous full body rich now in fact and they do this a number of different times and guess what opposite the gas station wine the other one there the really super expensive ones and the ones you get at the gas station is the one that they gave and said it was really perfect and it's really cheap nothing bottle of wine now you could say, well, they didn't know why well, they felt they knew wine and they drink wine all the time, but the point is they were influenced by the way was presented to them so in that case they were manipulated on purpose as an example but you have to see that we often get uncomfortable around pricing because we think we're manipulating people were not manipulating people were assessing the value we're saying this is how I'm valued this is what I believe I'm worth, and I think if you make this investment you'll get these returns financial return, emotional return, physical return spiritually return she always trying to deliver at least twenty times the value in all four of those areas so someone pays a dollar you want to give him twenty dollars in return doesn't always work that way but that's your goal that's what you're trying to achieve and you can put number values dollar amounts on all those benefits there's an exercise in book yourself solid illustrated that allows you to do that okay here's the benefit getting more conference I think that's worth this amount of money here's the here's the benefit of reducing stress I think it's worth this amount of money well what his confidence going to do for you is that help you get a promotion going and pitch yourself to get a raise ok so you get four percent raise one hundred thousand dollars well now you just made another four thousand dollars right? So there are financial returns on all of these benefits so you want to start to think about what you're offering and adding more value to it yourself and of course your prices are going to go up as you become more in demand as you become more successful and well known it's even easier to raise your prices because when you hear my prices the doesn't surprise you you'd say well, that sounds like it makes sense but if I was just one month and business you might think that seems high but nonetheless I could still start out with prestige pricing maybe I want to start all the way here but I could still start out with prestige pricing if I believed that's the value I was bringing so you make that choice what kind of pricing models you want to use now remember, pricing effective pricing is all about framing people look at your prices in a frame they're comparing those prices to other prices those other prices air called an anchor you go buy a tv set and you've got this idea in your mind that in big flat screen tv set costs thirty five hundred dollars that's usually I think is going to cost about this and you go to best buy you walk in there you see this big flat screen tv the kind you had in your mind it's fifteen hundred dollars you go oh my god there's a deal right here you had this anchor who knows where it came from if you came from fifteen years ago you saw some commercial you haven't bought a flat screen in fifteen years maybe they put it in your mind because when they did the commercial they pitched a thirty, five hundred dollar tv that looked just like the one that's at the front door when you walk in that's fifteen hundred or it says thirty, five hundred it's cross down and says fifteen hundred the anchor was thirty five hundred you can get it for fifteen hundred when you go to the store if you go home goods or something and you see to products on the shelf they're both very similar and one says you're not sure which one you want one says thirty nine dollars crossed out sale twenty nine dollars the other one says twenty nine dollars which one do you buy right? So I'm just giving you some examples of the discounting and how that affect you but the point is the anchor is what compels you because the other number is so far below that number that's anchored in your mind so people will come to you with an anchor I already said they're going to look at your numbers in that frame, look at your numbers and say, how does that relate to the anchor that's already set and here's the thing? Sometimes you gotta pull up their anchor and reset it, so when I'm talking about price for a program, I'm going to set up the frame I'm going to explain. This is what ifyou're doing bundle pricing, for example, or if you want to work with me privately, this is what it would cost over this period of time that may not be economical for you right now may not be a good choice for you, but I want you understand what that looks like if you did this option, this is what it would look like if you did this and this and this and this this is what it would cost, but if you take this option, which is the one that is being sold in that, um, sales letter or whatever, you know way you're selling it, even if it's talking one on one, then it's going to be this and of course, that's lower the key is all the anchor's air setting have to be true. If you're a sleazy salesman, you make up stuff, but if you tell the truth, then you're showing the rial structure just like when antonio was talking about what it would cost to come work in a group with me so you could buy this now for nine hundred dollars, you go by the book for twenty six dollars. You know, you put that in a frame against what it would worked, what it would be the normal price for a workshop out in public would be is a big difference. But then when he said you could go work with michael, he didn't say in a group format, so I made it. I pointed out just so you know, you can not gonna work me for three days for five thousand dollars privately, you're gonna pay almost that much privately. For one hour. I made sure that the frame was understood because I didn't want anybody call in the office and say, hey, I thought it was five grand. I get three days, michael, right? But you see how that influences the way you think about pricing. Of course, you can also compare and contrast to other prices that are out there in the world. So, for example, I remember we wrote a an email promotion for the book yourself, solid school of coach training, and I wanted to give them a framework around what their options were if they were interested in certifications. He's a really not making this up, I said generally there are a few different options all of us need protocol, we know that, right? We need some sort of protocol if we are in the business that I'm in writing from coaching or consulting that's what people buy protocol so you don't have a protocol and you're at the beginning stages. It could take a long time to develop something like book yourself so this years and years and years and years in the making that's a significant body of work and you might not be somebody who loves to do that kind of intellectual property creation on such a big scale, so that's a problem, but that is one option. If you're good at that, you want to do that, you love that you want to take the time to do that it's a very effective way to build your own brand identity around a bit of intellectual property second option you can go and get a franchise and go get franchise in the coaching industry. Generally, franchises are about a hundred grand was a few of them out there and they're very expensive and then you pay back in to the franchise every single year or else you lose your franchise and some of those might be good options, but they're not great options if you don't have that kind of money to invest I said, there's another option, and this is my option, this is what I offer, and then I detail that and show how much less expensive it is then the other option of the sort of of the franchise, because I'm doing the licensing instead of a franchise and look at how much faster you get all of this intellectual property because you do this training rather than go have to go out and do it yourself. So you see how you're introducing a structure and you're comparing and contrasting, but you're setting up a framework as long as it's true it's, a very effective, high integrity strategy for making sure that the potential buyer understands their options and where you fit into those options, happy to take any questions that might be coming in? Yes, from just rob, who says so when developing a marketing funnel from low end product to hyeon products? Do you already have that pricing spectrum figured out and then match the product or service to those desired prices? Yes, you really yes, you do basically rob's question is an excellent one. What he's tryingto identify is well, do you create the offers in your sale cycle such that they fit the frame of the different prices you're trying to introduce? And the answer is yes can also do the other way, too. You can identify the products you already have or you'd like to create where they fit into the sale cycle, and then you can price them accordingly. But when you do this pricing, you might say, well, I know how much my core offering is I know how much when I do a wedding it's ten thousand dollars that's the price? Well, now I got to make sure that I have some, uh, other offers that are easier for them to engage in that are less expensive, and I can put those er in contrast to the more expensive one. Yes, you had a question. How did people determine what their initial cost is? What they build that excellent question? You make it up, and I'm not kidding. You can certainly look at your marketplace, and you can look at the price elasticity in that market, it's a very fancy word, but basically, it means generally pricing starts around here, and then it goes all the way up to here, but the rubber band doesn't stretch to much farther. Once you go past a certain point, it breaks, it snaps, and people won't buy at that price. Most of my, um, ideal clients, most of my clients, they're not at a stage where they can afford to do three thousand dollars an hour on a regular basis. But there are people who do but I also don't want to do a lot of one to one if you want to do only one to one then I would just lower it and I do want one all the time but it is not leverage it's not very profitable for me to do that and at some point you'll be able to do that too. You could do that now of course you might use a slightly different pricing structure we may not be why not right especially if you're working with successful authors even if they want to make more money maybe they're already doing pretty well maybe they're getting thirty five grand forty grand a speech but it's a lot of work to be traveling all over the place trying to make that much money never goes oh my god, that seems like so much yeah yeah it's obviously a good paycheck but it could take you three days so you're bringing it down and then you got to get home spent a couple days with the family and then go back out on the road so you're not doing not necessarily doing them every single day so he doesn't end up adding up as much as you might think it does for me it's a nice additional stream of revenue twenty five thousand dollars a speech if I do a few of them it brings in some additional revenue, but it's just one piece of it and that's probably what you're teaching them to dio look at the market. Where do you want to fit into that market? What do you feel comfortable charging you want? I want youto push it up a little bit, I mean, if you're comfortable here, then raise it. So you're slightly uncomfortable because you've got to get comfortable with that discomfort and then it will be comfortable and then you raise again, you'd be a little uncomfortable. You get comfortable with that discomfort, then you'll be comfortable. Then you'll raise again. That's what, you want to pay any questions from here, you guys. So a question from a needed texas pushing a little bit further how how do you fish and find out what people are willing to pay? You gotta test it a real time. You've gotta ask for the sale at that price point, right? And some people will be willing to pay more than others. So if you get a couple knows, you know, the first time, it doesn't mean that people aren't willing to pay that. It also might mean you're not having the sales conversation particularly effectively, it also, I mean, you're having sales conversation too soon. It also might mean that you haven't build that foundation well enough that you don't have the plan for building trusting credibility in place well enough, they're not seeing you as a category authority, yet they're not seeing you as that expert yet they might not really know you yet because you're not being fully self expressed, they don't see your personal brand identity, they don't know why they should choose you. He had a question, sir, as an attorney, attorneys as you know, charge high dollar when attorneys can charge anywhere from really, really low fees to extremely high fees. And when I started my practice, I started off a one hundred dollars an hour, and I was like, scared to death, you know, hundred dollars now it just kind of the law school it's a hundred dollars that sounds like so much money, and as time progressed once first of all, I'm as time progresses like I knew more of what the market was charging the hole, but I also began to value myself more and knew what I was adding to my clients, and I had no problem calling from my hundred one hundred fifty to two hundred to three hundred is like, and a lot of people out there on the internet when think about charging three hundred dollars an hour, but whether they be for photographer and and then there's different pricing spring just you know pricing schemes like you were talking about before so depending on what your pricing scheme is not necessarily a bad thing exactly means ma model exactly does that's what I mean by scheme so what I would want to say to those who are listening is that when michael's really trying that's what he's saying is you need to be confident with yourself as well I can understand that most people don't value themselves to the degree that they should anyway and the service that you're providing and when you learn to feel more comfortable with yourself in the service you're providing I understand what you're giving to everybody then you can feel more comfortable making sure because part of that service is to be able to provide quality lifestyle for you and your family as we remember standing in the service of others has your stand in the service of your own destiny this is your future we're talking about so those two things need to be in balance exactly thank you so much for sharing that I really appreciate it do you wish that you would raise your prices earlier when you're an attorney yes yes when you were initially starting as an attorney yeah again remember what I said yesterday please don't be the people that come back and say I wish I had done what you said six months ago six years ago well, be that will be that good. Okay, I'm gonna go ahead one more. Maybe one more. We do have a lot of pricing. Like you said before, is a pretty big subject matter for people. This one is interesting from al mcbride in ireland that can you change your prices for different clients? Or should you be quite public about your prices, for example, all perfect clients, but some more ideal projects than others? Yes, you can even do both things or either things. So I think, it's great to be very public about your prices. I don't like when I go to a website and I'm interested in the thing. And I got to give him the information to get a quote. Not some types of work has to be quoted, but I want to know the range. So I know whether waste my time or not. I was putting a new dab it on the swim platform on my boat and a dab it holds your dinghy the tender. You know the thing that a little boat that you have on the vatican back of your big boat. So the one that I have a pain in the neck and you gotta pull it out, it's just big pain in the neck, so I wanted a hydraulic platform. So there's a company that I was interested in and I said I went there and they don't tell you how much it is so I quote your guy calls him I gotta talk to twenty five thousand dollars I'm not twenty five things running five thousand dollars that's not gonna happen not for that so I wasted a lot of time and then I feel stupid because I'm like, well I don't have twenty five thousand dollars for this one that's a really thing that's not like you know well I could do it but I mean I guess I could put twenty five but I have absolutely no desire to the value in that is not big enough for may maybe for somebody else but that was a waste of time if I knew what the range was starts at ten goes up to thirty whatever then I know I don't wanna mess with that I'm going to look for another solution so I like the public pricing at the same time you absolutely can do sliding scale pricing because it's your pricing and you when you were doing different project with different people then absolutely stable for this project this is what it costs for this project this is what it costs you can provide a range on the website as I said so that that's public but then inside of that you're gonna just it where you can't really adjusted too much is if you're doing something with a group of people right? Because that's not really fair not really cool, you know I mean, some people might have taken an early bird special but that's because they took the early bird special and that was on them for when they decided to buy a head. So there's a huge debate in the photography industry about whether to put your pricing on your site, whether to put a starting at price or just to put your packages right up front like the idea of just a starting price because then you can sell them on additional things will let them know your value after the fact, but I feel like it's easier to just put prices out there straight from and people know what they want when they come to you. Do you recommend one way over that personally, I like putting the prices that's the way I like doing business because then when I'm talking to somebody I know they're okay with the price is now there's a there's a school of thought that a little bit older school I think that says you never never tell anyone the prices until you've gone through all the benefits okay that's the staff there's school thought out there and there's absolute I understand that fully, but I think we live in an age now where is easier to find out what things cost it's easier to see what other providers charge for the same service. And so if I was looking for a photographer and I looked at you and five others, and I kind of liked all your work and all four had their prices, and you didn't, I might not pay it waste my time with you, because I might not want your prices might not be right for me, so or they may be so low that you're really not that good. So I was going to go where I understand remember the confused mind says no, there are people who are going to different disagree with me on this that's totally fine it's not like a right or wrong on this. This is just the way that I see the world. I think it makes life easier, and you ever ask somebody what something costs and they didn't really want to tell you right away, and they start going well before we talk about that let's talk about the vent, right? What do you think they are liars, they're deceptive, they don't want to answer your question. I think if somebody answers ask you a direct question, you'll give him a direct answer now you might say, I don't know we have to look at the project, but he will range from here to here generally. So you know, when I got a new accountant last year and I said what you think is going to cost and he said roughly this he said I've rarely seen a return go over this sometimes will come into this so I knew the range because he can't tell me exactly what it's going to be because I may need more hours or there might be a problem or something that's for the preparation of the return now for an audit or something that would be something entirely different makes sense say yes if it does yeah, so there might be another type of ah accountant who just says this is the price his package, right? And he doesn't he does an hourly says generally it takes this number of hours and I think he's smart to do it that way for his safe so he doesn't project creep and if you have a red devil road policy, you never work on a project with uh, yes, work on a project with the creep. Okay, good. Yes. Another question for one more, please. One more cool. Well, it's interesting. So say, for example, michael port works with an individual causing hires you and they want to pay you that three thousand dollars an hour the difference between pricing for that individual and then have say company x wants a word with your corporation is your pricing similar from for the corporation or for an infant individual for the photographer? If I'm working with one individual who calls me from the corporation, I would be the same but if I'm gonna work with a whole team of the whole executive team or the board totally different places so for a photographer for example, they do a family out, you know, that's cool, but if a company hires him coming to do a project may be pricing is definitely deaf sure absolutely sure you know again, this is your life we're talking about, right? I mean, that's, the bottom line is your life, your business, you didn't go into this business, you don't become a photographer and have your own business so that you can suffer I mean there's other ways you can suffer if you want, but why did you do it? If you're going to make yourself worse off than you were when you work for somebody else, why would you do that to yourself? You have to do that. I just have a knob survey shin too. I went to, uh, healer that was an amazing supposedly based on the recommendation of a friend, two hundred sixty five dollars an hour and a six month waiting list, and the best thing I learned from her was she just knows how to price herself but it wasn't delivery ble I never went back went to this other guy a week ago half that price amazing changed my whole body and so there's there's nothing going back going back going back yeah he'll make a lot of money as a result and you'll get the benefit that you want it right but it's interesting because I would've paid him three hundred bucks right? And so so you see it's kind of sometimes a little bit arbitrary and not everybody so other people going to think she was amazing great experience and some people will go to the guy that you like and go not such a great experience so it's a very individual experience and the value that each individual signs to that service is going to be different right on that's very important to remember that's why you have to price the way you want a price also you gotta watch out for the little thanks so let's use the boat one of the boatyard that did work on my boat over the course of this winter um I had about thirty five, forty thousand dollars of work done on the boat engine work the fiberglass work, new electronics things like that and the invoices are itemized and one of the things he's charging before you would take the boat out of the water is about four hundred twenty five dollars okay the other thing he's charging before is the little tiny tugboats like a little like it's like a boat like this size of this but it's like it's a time because it pushes the boat from the slip to the to the lift and from the left to the slip they charge seventy five dollars for each move from the lift to the slipping from the slip to the lift I said seriously think about this this is called nickel and dime I'm paying you forty five thousand dollars for really working your nickel and dime me with this with this piddly stuff because of that I don't want to come back so that you lost another forty thousand dollars next year right? It's it's just not necessary and I think this is something to consider especially when you sail services that have lots of different add ons here and there and there because that's the stuff that makes people nuts you guys air consumer so you know this I mean that's the thing that's interesting to you guys all understand pricing because you buy stuff you know what you like you know what you don't like so why don't you price your stuff the way you like it to be because you're afraid well the way I like it to be maybe that's not the way it sells the best maybe maybe not but at least you feel comfortable the way you've done it to start and then you can just based on the feedback and give you something else that's kind of interesting. Um I got it I got a put some numbers in your head normally I would write this but I'm gonna put some numbers in your head. I did a program a couple years ago that it three different options like a basic goal in a platinum you know, one of those things three different options and the basic was you could watch these things live okay? Webinars um and the middle option was you could you could get the recordings and the transcripts you know, for a lifetime and the premium or the platinum option included a certain number of follow up group coaching calls on my first price that I did one ninety nine um nineteen ninety nine one, ninety nine do not do not okay ninety nine one nine to ninety nine where do you think the majority of people went in the middle one. Eighty plus percent of the people. Okay, then I did the exact same program about six months later and it changed the pricing ninety nine now when I went on and tune in ninety nine to seventy nine to ninety nine no, no sorry one ninety nine to seventy nine ninety nine so I raised the basic one hundred dollars, so that was one ninety nine I moved the middle option two to seventy nine and the platinum option two to ninety nine which do you think most people bought platter because everybody wants the middle one because that's the best value not everybody can stay the whole time just like this. Not everybody causing people to watch all three days that's unusual to be able to do that online so they say, you know I'll buy it for ninety nine bucks that makes perfect sense and I can have it whenever I want so in this case that's what they wanted but if you look at the next option up and you go well for twenty more bucks I can get all that other stuff well, of course I'd be an idiot to do the middle one interestingly enough, three people bought the middle one out of about one hundred fifty, so we just said take the take the planet one you must have made a mistake I mean, you know, we hope you made a mistake, so you know, so we just get but but look how much more money we made it was an entry level offer. It was a low barrier offer just by changing the pricing. Nothing wrong with the pricing change didn't do anything weird, you know what he said let's raise it and let's structure in this way and see if it makes a difference