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Lesson Info

Money Q&A With Audience

We're gonna talk about a couple things. We're gonna pull a couple people and we're gonna sit here and talk about money, and we're gonna be super uncomfortable with it. But we're gonna do it anyway. Just see what is it that ... Where are you right now, and where do you want to get to? And what is in the middle, what's in the way? Are we jumping up first? Alright, yes. Ooh, look at this, this is like a set. It's very exciting. I'm gonna go here. Yes. All right, hello. Hi. Would you like to introduce yourself to the internet? My name is Matt Longmire. I've done film for about a decade and I'm transitioning into photography now that I'm a dad. Okay, where do you live? I live over on Bainbridge Island. Mm, we did our first ever workshop over at Bainbridge Island. We did a shoot over there, remember that? We went on the ferry, right? Yeah, so cool. Yeah, there's lots of ferries. Bainbridge is sort of the most popular one. Yeah, it's gorgeous. Yeah. So, you said I'm transi...

tioning because I'm a dad. Why, why is that a trigger for you? Started taking pictures of my kids. I know, right? It's just kind of this thing. You already have all the gear in place, so you start taking pictures. Okay, and what's going on with you right now from a money perspective? It feels so talk show-ish. So share. It's okay, we're kind of getting into the cooler months, so business always slows down a little bit now for film. It's okay-ish, still going in the right direction, but yeah, you get kinda used to it, seasonally. Okay, so from a money perspective, what would you like to see happen right now, and what's not happening? I'm always happy if at the end of the year there's some savings, if more came in than went out. I would like you to shoot higher, but keep going. (laughs) Yeah, so film is kind of, you do a project and then there's more time, and then a project, so photography's a good way to supplement in between. Okay, so you're moving on completely or just supplementing? Supplementing, so doing both. Okay, so what's your current photography business look like? Brand new, so I'm open to ideas. For film, it's all a service, so I film, I shoot, I edit. I do the whole thing and they end up with a video. For photography, I'm new to the idea of doing a shoot and then having a separate kind of thing to sell a product of the-- Right, right, right. 'Cause up front it's already paid for and now it's almost inverse a little bit. Right, it's to me, and again this is just me being new to it, it kinda feels like paying for it twice, especially in the sense that-- 'Cause there's a session fee and there's the-- Right, 'cause there's a session fee and then the sale, sort of that service and product you were talkin' about. But also with the way things go these days, and everybody gets new images all the time, it seems like my difficulty is trying to convince someone to buy a print when it seems like the more popular thing to want to do would be to get a bunch of images that they can share digitally more frequently. So I think my struggle is trying to think of that print or product. That whole part of it is what's difficult for me. Yeah, so the fear is that it seems like everybody wants all the images on a USB... Right, not necessarily like the whole shoot, but essentially the best of, like if I shoot 300 pictures, like the 20, or 10 to 20 that come from it. Yeah, so there's a few things that you can do as you're setting up your pricing that can have a big impact later. I would just eliminate from your head what everybody else is doing. OK. 'Cause, I mean, you don't wanna operate in a vacuum, but you can drain all your energy tryin' to figure out how everybody else is doing it. Sure. For me, the upside to that was that I was really able to stay in my lane and build what I wanted, and make a lot of sense out of that, and not feel the fear of what everybody else was doing and how am I doing it differently. And so by that path, I ended up standing out in my market simply because I wasn't doing it how everybody else was doing it. And that's something I would love for you to strongly consider. So when you're sitting there thinking, "But everybody else is doing that, "and that's what everybody wants, what do I do now?" That's how you are apart from them, just that alone. Starting there. The other part of that is you drain your energy and your confidence when you're constantly looking at everybody else's work. I think it's such a habit to say, "Lemme go on this site, and this site, and social media," and by the time you're done, you're like, "Ugh, I suck." That was always, especially with film, that was a big struggle for me, but I eventually learned that just because someone else is good doesn't mean I'm not. Yes! And that was really hard to come to that conclusion, but when I did, I realized, it doesn't mean I can't do something just because someone else is doing something. So ideally, what do you want your business to look like right now, financially, pricing-wise, ideally for you, what are you selling, and how are you pricing? I would love to do a larger session fee that includes a batch of images, and products could still be available, I could still operate that for them, but say instead of like, I don't know $300-400 session fee for a couple hours to do, I don't know, like an $800 or $1,000 session fee that gives you 30-40 images that you can spread across the year for sharing, that kind of thing. But again, I'm completely new to this, so I'm just kind of thinking from a naive perspective, that sometimes actually can be beneficial. Well I was gonna say, that's actually a really good way to go after it. Why would you think $800, $900 versus, just curious, $2,000 or $3,000? I think in my head, that kind of a session, I wouldn't imagine someone would buy more product. It's the kind of thing that they would wanna own and keep and maybe eventually have a print made. But most of the people that I know in this parent group that we're now heavily involved in, most of them have very few prints up in the house, but they're constantly, they have screensavers on their TVs, and things of these digital images passing over. OK, so there's a couple of things I want you to hear from that. First of all I love that you're realizing that you don't need to be looking at everybody else and making sure you fit in from an imagery perspective. But you have already assigned your target market to be your friends. People sort of like it, yeah, absolutely. Because you're sitting there saying, "Well, in this group that we're really close to, "this is how they're positioning their work," so in that vein, you are already seeing the restrictions of that market. Right, 'cause you're gonna open. So you're kind of seeing the restrictions of that market, that's kind of reactive, right, versus saying, "Who do I wanna reach? "Who do I wanna sell to?" Is that your group of friends? 'Cause if you wanna say, "I wanna sell a higher session fee "that involves $800, $900," we'll call it $1,000. $1,000, but I already know that this group is probably gonna be something a little tricky because they want it all digitally, and they probably won't buy much products, and I'm not sure where their spend rate is. Yeah, they're also not even the kind of people to spend that kind of money for photography, so that's the tricky part. Right, so they would probably be the worst people to use as your research people, right? I was kind of thinking more the demographic of people with kids age two to six, that kind of thing. OK, which is everything now. Right. Yeah, so one of the things I think is very important to realize is just because it's not what you would spend doesn't mean it wouldn't be an incredible investment for somebody else. Like something they're so grateful to do. So instead of sittin' there and thinking, "I don't think they'd buy, and they'd be hard to reach, "and these people are probably already "taken by that photographer over there," instead of all that, say, "You know what, push it all aside, "what do I most wanna do, how do I create "a structure that shows I'm worth it?" So remember I showed a slide that said, I don't remember how it said it but it said it so well. Which was, basically, that having only great photographs means you're a great photographer. But having some great photographs and a bunch of average ones means you just shot a few great photographs. So I would be like razor sharp ruthless about what you show. Oh yeah, I've already decided to, just from this morning, I've already decided to cut the portfolio in half. Good! Good, so you're only gonna show a certain amount of things, and then what I would love, what do you think differentiates your work from others? Other than background in a different medium, that's about it. I mean I don't pose, I don't do anything that... With film, at least, and I say that because that's what I know, it's the experiences, it's how people take the interviews, it's how I work with them. It's sort of that experience, but then what you end up with. So I haven't quite figured it out. I'm refining it, but it's, I know it's changing as my kids change, and as I've changed from someone pre-dad to now, post-kids, it's interesting. Post-kids, (chuckles) like post-apocalyptic. I think what's really great about being in this position that he's in right now, and that several of you are too, is because you have not really defined how you're different yet, in this medium, because you've not defined how you're different right now, you get to do that. You get to say, "I'm gonna set the direction, "I'm gonna make sure the way I define myself and "the way I stand out will also warrant the pricing. "The work, and the value of hiring me "is going to be reflected in the pricing. "And that way I have that brand consistency." So if you had to say, like for me early on, without having a lot of technical expertise yet, not feeling like I had a huge handle on lighting, but I knew I could interact in a way that got me the expressions I want. So pretty quickly I said, "OK, this is something that "I think is separating me out from other people." Because at the time especially, most everything around me was posed. Very posed, on the couch, next to the vase, you know? And there was some of this comin' out, but not nearly as popular as it's become. And so I could say right away, "That is a way that "I'm gonna stand out when people are "looking at a number of photographers." For you, if you got to choose it, based on what you think inherently is your best talent, your best skill, what you do the best, creatively, choose it. What do you think it is right now? And you don't have to know, but if you had to guess, 'cause you are on the hot seat. Alright. (audience laughs) It's always been editing, whether video or, not so much call it Photoshop skills, it's just the ability to choose between two photos that would be-- Be more decisive about it. Right. Yeah, so you can be more precise about what you're offering. Yes. OK, so as it relates to sales, you mentioned something, I'm not saying these are your numbers, but you mentioned something about shooting 300 and delivering about 20. If 20 turn out. If two turn out, that's all you get. That's the hard part for me, is just because two things might both be a good photo, only one's a great photo. OK, so I'm a big fan of testing things different ways and seeing what works. So my current sales that we're gonna go through tomorrow has been extremely refined. Tried it this way, tried it this way, tried it this way, this was the best way it worked. That is part one of my system, you know, and on and on. This is where the analytical kind of analysis comes in really handy, in this part, 'cause I actually love looking at that. From the perspective of determining how many images to offer, everybody kind of decides it for themselves, but I settled on that number of about 60 images. About, sometimes it's 75. It's never really below like 55, not really. The only reason I came up with that number is, when I first started out, I heard from people that you don't wanna turn around more images than would be on a normal roll of film. You wanna try to keep yourself right at that 24 because that's the magic number. I started realizing that's not my magic number. My magic number is I have enough variety, in looks, poses, expressiveness, the way I process the image, the clothes they're wearing, the backgrounds, the foregrounds, the interaction styles, the groupings and the pairings between everybody in the family shot. If I have all that variety and I'm turning around a session where very few things are the same. There's a lot to choose from. It's not like they're seeing five images that all look the same and choosing the one. They have all these different decision points, and I'm going to move more, and I do. I sell more because there's all kind of different ways to look, and none of it wants to be put away, no one wants to give it all up. And for me, that number-ish really made a difference. And so when we have associate photographers come through, and one of the things I see most common when they first start, is that they shoot a lot, but they end up delivering something like 25, 30 images. And unless they're really, every single one of them are so good and so varied, we sell less for them. We don't sell as much of them. And so we say, you know, "Do me a favor, "how long are you gonna shoot?" "45 minutes to an hour." "Make that two hours." And keep shooting deliberately, don't spray and pray. Shoot deliberately, and then come back and you're gonna have more to choose from, and more to narrow down and edit. And you're gonna find you have more to sell, and time and time again, that's exactly what happens. And it's a different way of looking at how to shoot, especially if you're someone who says, "I'm just gonna show a few great ones." Make more great ones. (laughing) Totally valid. You know, make more great ones and do what you need to have that. I once did a course on here and someone wrote me afterwards and said, "I heard you said it takes "two to three hours, I'm gonna write a review "telling people how torturous that is." I was like, "What, I'm sorry, who are you?" And she's like, "It's torture to the client "to put them through two to three hours." I'm like, "Kind of depends on how you're "spending those two to three hours." You know, "You've given me a lot of insight "into what your sessions might be like." But ours are actually based around a fun experience. Yeah, if you go to the park or the zoo or something. All that stuff, you build in breaks, you have snacks, you have this and that. At the end of the day, the number one thing is, "I don't wanna leave." You know, and there's a focus on that. We spend a good amount of time, we emphasize a lot of great images, we deliver that, and then we strategically sell them. OK. Perfect, thank you. You're welcome, thank you. Hot seat! It's fancy! Come in the hot seat! Alright, so, tell us your name and introduce yourself. My name is Amy, I live in Seattle, and I mostly do pet photography. OK, and what would you say is your pricing issue, pain point, money problem, tell me. I've never actually had a client, I've never charged a client. All of my work has been through a volunteer rescue. I've dabbled a little bit with image licensing, but I'm still trying to figure that out too. I'm pretty much very new to all of this, and I'm not even sure what to charge, I'm not sure who my market is, and I'm trying to structure that and figure it out. How long have you been shooting? I got my camera November 2015. OK, you started shooting with it then? Yep. OK. (laughing) So you've been shooting for two years. Yes. So you're not terribly new to it. Yeah. So what are you new to? New to trying to treat it as a business, I mean the past two years I've pretty much been learning. I've been experimenting with things and trying to figure out what I like and what I might wanna do with it. And now I'm trying to get into a position where I'm trying to transition into treating it more like a career than something that's just a hobby. OK, what would your ideal career be? What would your ideal business look like right now? I'm still trying to figure that out. But I like doing really creative shots, I guess. Creative shots, so you wanna have a business that you shoot things, and you deliver it like, you're shooting from a creative perspective, and you're delivering things that stand out 'cause they're creative. Right, I like small animals, I tend to shoot small is what I'm saying, rather than like a big expansive space, I tend to be closed in when I'm shooting, and close up. Almost like small product photography, but (mumbles). They're alive. Right, they're alive. OK. But I tend to be very close to the subject. So you have a defined style. Right, I suppose. No, you do. Don't you think she was really specific and defined about her style? Yeah, so you shoot small animals, which is narrow, and you shoot them close up in a small space, which is narrow. That's a style, right there. So you know what your style is, even if you haven't necessarily identified it and stated it, you clearly have one. OK, what else? As far as my style goes? No no, in terms of like your ideal business. You said, this is what I heard you say, "I haven't really figured out what to do, "I've been shooting for a couple years, "I know what I like to shoot, "and I know how I wanna present it, "and I know the manner in which I like to shoot it, but..." And I also like... Trying to think of how to phrase this. I like a lot of variety in my work, so I like working with a lot of different animals. And I like trying new things out. What about business though? Like what do you want from a business perspective? 'Cause I feel like this part's pretty well figured out. Even if you don't I feel like it is. I mean as far as business, I'm trying to figure out what type of client I would want. 'Cause I've kind of thought about going two different routes with business. One is actually going to people's homes and doing the shoots, I've thought about having a studio, probably a bit of both, because sometimes with the animals, it's actually not good to take them to a studio, they get freaked out. At least the ones I work with. And I've also thought about going like a fine art route with some of it. OK, so the considerations are, you work in the client's home, or you do possibly, what is a fine art thing gonna mean? In five words or less, what would you say? OK, you can do ten. (laughing) Probably more like some of the things I do with like the mouse and rodent shots that are more like setup scenes. OK, like little sets. Right, and so they have more than one that go through a story with them. So I do like little set pieces with them. OK, so first of all congratulations, 'cause you're really specific about a narrow niche, niche, however you say it. You know what your style is and you know where you wanna point your camera. I guess my big thing with it has been like, who wants to pay for this? OK, so you just need to find your market. Yeah. OK. So what is your affiliation with the non-profit, you said it's animal rescue? Yes, I work with an animal rescue, I volunteered with them. It was the first thing I did when I got my camera, I went there in November 2015, I just got the camera, I couldn't get an animal in focus to get it, a lot of blurry shots for a few months. (laughing) Just stay there you damn hamster! Yeah, I was pretty bad, but I stuck with it, and I've been going in every week, you know, so I've shot hundreds and hundreds of animals at this point. Is your relationship something where they could then feed you clients? Not literally feed you. (laughing) I think I can definitely use them as a way to try. I don't know how much I will get in return with the market that they have. And my position also is, I've been getting people asking me to work for them, and I don't know, I've told them I'm not ready, like I don't know-- Why? What are you not ready for? I don't know what to charge them, I don't know what I'm offering, I don't know-- When do you think you'll figure it out? What? When do you think you'll figure it out? When's your plan to have it all locked down? I'm hoping to figure it out right now, but... (laughs) Great, let's figure it out. Alright, so you know the subject you wanna shoot, you have an organization that you work with that can feed you potential clients. (laughing) Have to come up with another word. They've also made me an admin on their Facebook, and they've said that I can promote myself on there if I want, and I can-- What are the things they'll let you do? They'll let you... Promote yourself on their Facebook page, what else? They will hand out packets when they adopt with information about me. So they will market you. Yeah. And they'll let you own their platform to reach prospective clients. Right. What else? They've offered to let me do a kiosk with an adoption catalog in there, but it'll be my photos, so I could also promote myself there. Are you paying for any of those things? I already have them, so. But you don't have to pay them to use the space? No. OK, that's amazing. What else? That's all I can think of off the top of my head. OK, so people have asked you to photograph, but since you don't have clarity over exactly what you're gonna charge, OK, so you just need to figure out how much you're gonna charge, and everything else is lined up. You have a marketing avenue, you know what you wanna do, you have people already asking for it, and you can own a marketing platform. And I also feel, I think part of my hesitation with charging people is also that... It's not like I have a studio, and I'm just charging them for exactly what I'm doing. I'll have to change my what I'm doing to adapt to that a bit because I don't really have a space, like I don't have a studio, and it would be very difficult for them to bring their pets in where I usually shoot. But you only need a tiny amount of space! Right, that's one of the benefits. That's a no-brainer, that's an easy thing. And I got one of those travel backdrop stands. Yeah, I'm not worried about any of that stuff, the set design, the space, the market, I mean you have so much figured out. This main, can we see some of her images? I wanna see some of your images. 'Cause this is another part, what are you shooting, so we know that you've got everything else lined up, how good is your work? What do you think? It's OK, I mean I see it and I think I'm not where I wanna be, but I know that it's what I wanna do. Let's try this again. (Amy laughs) Ask me how's my work. How's my work? No, ask me. How's your work? It's really good. I love what I do. Can I show you some? Sure. OK, let's show her images. Awww! Our little baby, what is that? It's a dog. (audience laughs) That's what I thought, but you said you shoot small rodents and stuff. I'm like, that looks a lot like a dog! Well my sizes are, cats, and I actually shoot a lot of dogs, they're chihuahua size, terrier size. Aww, you got the reflection and everything. Ohhhh, what is that? It's a hedgehog. Oh it's a hedgehog! Yeah I've actually shot quite a few hedgehogs. I have never photographed a hedgehog, I'm jealous. That's awesome. Oh, hello little parrot! That's a parrot, right? Yeah, it's a sun conure. (murmuring) That's Bernie, Bernie was very difficult to shoot, because he was so friendly, he just wanted to like be up in the camera the whole time. OK, alright, so your work's there, it's very good. You guys, it's very good. It's a lot of emotion, everything else is there. You don't know your pricing, I'll give you a number and just use it. (laughs) But do me a favor, say this. We're just gonna do this for five seconds. I'm gonna ask you, I'm gonna say, "Can you please photograph my rabbit?" And you're gonna say to me, "Yes, this is," Just for the sake of this argument, say, "Yep, my session fee is, my whole package," we'll just do this, do you have a number? Um... You look like you had a number, go. I didn't have a number. OK, what was going on in your mouth, you were about to say something? I'm just trying to think of, how many pictures am I gonna offer, what am I offering them-- OK, let's just make it easy. 'Cause this for you honestly, the only thing is you need to sit down and put numbers down, and guess what, no matter what you put down, you are not beholden to it the rest of your life. Just do it for the next session. So stopping all of this from happening, you only need pricing for the next shoot, and then you can change all of it. Do you know how many times businesses go out like crap, and they get better, and they get better, and they get better? And then you hardly recognize them 'cause they're so good, they don't resemble at all where you started? Pricing changes, location changes, quality of work changes. You just have to get started. And you have everything there, but you are afraid to take the first step. Right? Yeah. I'm pretty much just afraid to charge, like I just don't know how. It's just a new experience to me, and what's funny is I actually did freelance graphic design for a while, and I wasn't afraid to charge for that, but... That was because I started with a big company, it was a corporation and I... You just went with their pricing? I just went with their pricing and I never thought about it myself. Alright, I'm gonna give you some numbers, and change it how you want, but just say, you know, where do you live? I live in Seattle. Seattle, OK. So again, I'm throwin' out numbers, make it your numbers, but $250 for a session fee, and then you're gonna, what do you want your average sale to be? Just what do you want it to be? What do you wanna make per sale? Um... I don't even know what's realistic. (laughs) That's not what I asked you! What do you wanna make? I... Don't be weird about money, what is it? $1,000, $500, $100, $75? I mean $1,000 would be fine. $1,000 would be fine, OK. Alright, so you have, let's just say your session fee is, let's make it this, your session fee is $250, and you can have a $750 credit towards whatever products you want. So you can pay $1,000 now, or just the session fee, and then we can hold the reserve on the $750, however you wanna say it. Come up with verbiage that makes sense to you. But let's just say a session, most people plan to spend about $1,000. Alright, this is on a portrait session. I'm looking at your work thinking, you need to license this. License to card companies and graphic design and marketing. I also wanna do licensing. Yeah, that seems like so right there, you know what I mean? (talking over each other) Oh my god, that is a card! You're walking, and you have this card. This is a poster with a motivational, like, "It doesn't matter how small you are, you can do it!" Yeah I also, licensing is a direction that I've looked at with it, but again, I don't wanna do micro-stock licensing. Alright, say the next three sentences without saying, "I'm not sure." Ready, sit up. OK, whoa! Wait, do that again. Go down. Alright, sit up. Was that as visible to you as it was to me? Alright, so you sit up, and then you know your price is $1,000, so, "Oh my god, I love your work, "I have four hedgehogs, and I would love to hire you "to photograph all my hedgehogs together. "Can you do that?" Yes. "How much does it cost?" $1,000? (laughing) Alright, OK. Alright, just for the heck of it, you ask me. I'll be you. OK. Alright, ready? No hold on, let me start. Sit up! You have all the confidence right here. So I'm asking you. Yeah. So I have four hedgehogs, I would love for you to shoot them. (gasps) I would love to, oh my god, what are their names? Eleanor. (laughing) Timothy. Yeah. Simon. Oh god, Simon, yeah. And Helen. Oh OK, and you want like a family portrait of the four? Yes. Oh my god. That would be a joy. I would love to do that. How much does it cost? Oh, it's $1,000, and that's gonna cover the session fee, that's my time and expertise. It's pretty much, we'll be there for however long it takes to get your hedgehog family captured. (audience laughing) I will make sure I deliver to you a variety of options, we can do prints, we can do canvases, we can do a really cute thing where you have four blocks in a row, where they're all individual, and underneath it is a big canvas of all of them holding hedgehog hands. (audience laughs) And then we could even do an album at the end, like to mark this time in their life, I'll design it and lay it out, there's no cost to you. So you wanna get the session fee right now, or do you wanna make sure we get on the phone, or do you wanna come over and see my hedgehog sanctuary, or what do you wanna do next? 'Cause I'm up for it. I'm excited, let's do it. (Amy laughs) I would like to come over and see your hedgehog sanctuary. Perfect! (Amy laughs) But like, the only hesitation in all of that is your, not your, most people's, insecurity, to assign a value to your work, and to confidently state it, and also, show your enthusiasm. Because what you're doing when you're kind of not sure, you know, by the way, I do this to my kids a lot, so it's kind of a habit. Sit up! But what you're doing when you're expressing to me from a body language perspective that you're not sure, you're not that confident, I also don't know your work is this good. Because I don't necessarily know it's gonna be that good because of your lack of confidence. I said how is it, and you're like, "OK-ish." (laughing) Yeah. And then I said how much is it gonna cost, "$1,000?" (laughing) So work a little bit on your non-verbal language, I'm pretty sure there's classes for that. Work on your body language, practice, go in front of a mirror. And I'm not even joking, I say this all the time to people. If you don't know what language to use with clients, get a script, write it down, put on candlelight, have a glass of wine, (laughing) you know, and sit there and write a script that ideally, if no one were asking you on the spot and you didn't feel weird, you would say. And then stand in front of the mirror and say it again and again and again. How much do you charge? Me? $1,000? (laughing) How much do you charge? Oh, $1,000. How much? $1,000. Oh, yeah, I like it. What does that include? $250 session fee, and I would have to memorize all the other... And more, and more. But keep doing that again and again, and that's not silly. That's how you get yourself to a place where you can confidently express what you want, what you feel passionate about. The difference between what we did when you asked me, not only did I tell you the price, but I immediately told you how excited I was to do this. I asked you a lot of questions. I wanted to know more. My enthusiasm is quite natural, I'm employing my enthusiasm here, 'cause it's already there. I have never photographed a hedgehog family before, that would be awesome. And I wanna express that to you, so by the time we're done having this dialog, not only do you know what my pricing is, but you know I'm crazy excited to do it, you know I can do it and I can do it well, and I have transferred the energy I feel about the excitement of the shoot to you. If you were hesitant, you are now locked in. Because you wanna be as excited as I am, because you love those damn hedgehogs. What's the plural of hedgehog? Hedgehogs. Mm, that was boring. (laughing) So you know what I mean? So right there we're talking about non-verbal language, we're talking about confidence in the pricing, we're having a script we're gonna go over and over again so it feels really comfortable. And a confidence and enthusiasm that you are sharing. And suddenly, this is a partnership you guys are doing together. You are on this venture together, it's a collaboration. And it's worth it to them, and it's worth it to you. But everything for you is lined up, you just have to decide that you wanna do this. There's no barrier to you. Throw any number down. And just start. Yeah, I mean it's definitely my biggest thing that I'm working on right now is definitely the confidence and figuring out the business stuff. It kinda transitioned from like practicing photography, and then trying to like build all these skills, and it's very new to me. Yeah, well the shooting's already there. And the market's awesome. Like the way you're teed up for that, I love that. And the fact that you're in a really narrow niche, niche, niche, is fantastic. It's fantastic 'cause you will stand apart. I don't know that many small animal photographers who shoot in a wide space on photography sets. You know, that's super cool. So that's already all lined up, you just have to make sure you reach out to all the people who value that, and you're in a great intersection of people you're already working with that are gonna connect you to them. You know, those packets they give out, we'll talk more, we talked a little bit earlier, but we'll talk more about how you maximize that so they find you right away. I mean, there's a lot there. But I would love you to transition out of saying, "I'm not sure, and I'm thinking about, "and this is something I'm working on," to, maybe you're not sure yet, but I'm gonna do it anyway, and I'm no longer just working on it, I'm doing it. And I can stop, reassess, and change direction as I go, and change the trajectory of my pricing and my market and all these other things I don't know for sure, but I'm going. You're just going, yeah? Yeah. Alright, good! (Tamara clapping) Thank you. (audience applauds) Thank you, great doing business with you. (laughs)