Lessons

Lesson Info

Roundtable Discussion

Hey guys, we're back in, not the studio, but back at Alex's house after our adventure. We had a great time out there, and we wanted to answer some of your questions and kind of talk about our favorite moments from the trip and why we do this. So, yeah, I guess our producer's gonna prompt us with some questions, and we'll go from there. So I'm dying to know, Rod, what was the best part? First winter adventure. Yeah, yeah, I think the best part was being able to access a place that I wouldn't be able to. Before coming to Montana, I would think that a lot of things are not accessible like lakes and all that. Like you drive to Glacier Park, and all you can see is maybe McDonald Lake. But now, that I know how to skin and go up a mountain and snowboard down, that gives me an extra accessibility. So that was a big plus for me. Thanks, yeah. That's a jam, that's how you do it around here. Yeah, there's no real access in the winter. People want to come in the winter. They're like, "Wher...

e can we go?" Nowhere, nowhere. (laughing) We can't really drive anywhere expect the usual suspects. Like you were saying, besides Lake McDonald, where do you go, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's the ski resort. There's like the cute little towns. You get to the top I guess. But if you're a photographer, it's not really a spot that- Yeah, no drive ups, for sure. Nice. So that was special. Yeah. You feel inspired? You're gonna come back? Oh yeah, definitely, I'm already planning it. Yeah, you're ready to go now. Yeah, yeah. Just go summit the biggest mountain you can find (laughs). It's like, nah, disclaimer. Yeah, don't- Don't do that. I think I feel confident to do it on my own without you guys with what I learned. It's a win, it's a win! (drowned out) (drowned out) We've got a winner. Isaac, from your perspective, how'd you think Rod did splitboarding first time? Well, so Rod and I, this is, what, like fourth or fifth trip we've done together. So I knew that he didn't know outdoor adventure winter skills, but I sandbagged a little knowing that Rod is super athletic. He picks up on things quick, and he always has a good attitude no matter how bad things get. So if you have those three ingredients, you can do a lot of really hard things really easily. And then of course, he picked it up super fast. You just gotta power through it. And we just put him... There was no training course. We just put him on skins and we're like, "Hey, we're going this way three miles, keep up." But he did. It was very brief. He's like you gotta do this, you gotta do that. And I just tried it. It felt natural after five minutes. Yeah, and then I put his board together for him one time. And then the next time he put it together. He's like, "Like this?" And I'm like, "Yeah." (laughing) Fully assembled. So he did awesome. But I kinda knew he would do awesome, and that's why we invited him, because it's always fun when somebody's optimistic and willing to try things. It's that sink or swim, though, right? Like you get thrown into it, you gotta do it. Exactly, yeah, yeah. I was behind for a little bit. I'm like, oh, I just gotta catch up and roll over the faster and keep up. No competitive nature in this group whatsoever. (laughing) No, not at all. Yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, Alex, how about you? What was the best part? I think the best part was... I guess we can't talk about the snowmobile. I was gonna say snowmobiling up back. 'Cause I was not looking forward to that skin, 'cause it's pretty flat. The sort of official best part will probably be skiing. Yeah, skiing Teton Pass. That's such a remote Podunk experience that was to me always feels special to be there. Skiing a place that's abandoned pretty much. Yeah, also I thought it was nice that we were the only ones there. Yeah, like last time just show up. (drowned out) It's like you go to the national park in the summer and you're with a lot of people. Or in the winter here. Yeah. I feel like skinning is a little bit of a winter gateway, outdoor drug in that you skin to get access, but then you keep skinning because you get to ski down. So it tricks you into like, oh, get up here. I'll see these epic vistas, and I'll get outside and I'll get exercise. But then the moment you skin down, you're like should I do another lap? I should probably just go up again. I'm tired, but I think I wanna do that again. Total bonus, yeah. Yeah, it's always the best part. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean it worked out really well with the days that we were out there that Teton Pass was closed, but it kind of brings up a good point. Winter, there's less people doing everything. So you're always competing with less people and have better access to places. So it kind of opens up new doors I guess. Yeah, yeah. It's a more quiet time of the year I think. There's less people and there's more quiet, 'cause there's no parties going up some nearby road. It's just sort of soft cushioning of snow and you and your thoughts. And one of the things that I was thinking of today, earlier today, I was thinking a lot of people want to do this to grab photos or shoot photos that they've never shot before or maybe have solace in the winter. But I get this question all the time. In the summer, aren't you afraid of bears? 'Cause there's a lot of grizzly bears around here. And if you are that type of person who's athletic and you're afraid of bears, this is the time to go out, because they're all asleep. (laughing) There's no animal danger really. There's only wolves. Wolves or mountain lions but very rare. Much more rare than a bear encounter. So yeah, if you're afraid of bears, this is your zone (laughs). Get on some skins and go out there. That's the point. Those suckers are asleep. You don't see tracks, you don't see anybody or any sign of bears. That's true. It's very confidence inspiring in the winter. You can sit with your food in your sleeping bag. Yeah, there's no bear protocol. Also, I think it allows you to capture unique photographs. When I was up there, I was like, oh, I've never seen this before, just because it's not so accessible. That was cool. It was cool to live through Rod's eyes and get creative. See how amped he was like, "I've never shot white like this before!" Yeah, "Shoot these photos! (laughing) What is he seeing? To me it's not common, but it's like a photo I've taken myself before. So it's always fun to see somebody come up there and be like, oh, this is awesome, and it gets me hyped. And then I find myself like peeking over Rod's shoulder and being like I wanna shoot that photo, too. (laughing) I never would've shot it before, but now that he's hyped, I'm like I wanna shoot it, too. Kind of reminds you, sometimes, you take things for granted when they're your usual surroundings. Yeah, yeah, it's an outside perspective. You're used to seeing all this, but for me, it's like, whoa, this is cool. It's cool it goes both ways, though, that you were inspired by Rod and how excited he was. It always works both ways. Always works, yeah. I think that's the reason you do group trips versus doing solo is you get to feed off each other's excitement. So if you find a good group of people that are enjoying the same thing or learning new things or being challenged, there's a level of excitement there that, for me, that's my whole life mission is to help people have adventure. And the reason is because I really enjoy when people are excited. And so it's just so cool to see people get amped on a new thing or being outside. And I feel like excitement is also ramped up a little bit when you're outta your element. I'm always pushing people like, "Let's go do this, let's go around this." So obviously, that's why Alex and I do a ton of adventures and anytime we can drag anybody else along. Yeah, I think Isaac has that gift of exciting people. He gets excited, I get excited, we get good shots, and he's always up to climb a mountain just for a shot. (laughing) Just for shot. (drowned out) (laughing) Seems like a good skill level between everybody. Nobody was too far ahead, too far behind, even the machine stroll, you know? Oh, good. It's perfect. I have to do layer a little bit, but- You started cold, but you were smart. Yeah, yeah, yeah, learned those layers. I started hot. (laughing) But you went on for a while, smart move. It's an art. It is an art. Not only is it an art, but layering is something that... Well, we found, like I started cold, and then we got to that actual past part of it, and it was so windy and cold that I had to layer back up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not the perfect science, just depending on, you never know what the wind's gonna be like just over the bend. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can't prepare for everything. No, it's all about just layering, the act of layering. Just have the options in the backpack and you're good. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely having things on the ready. Thinking about when we got up to that one ridge, and it's windy coming over. Having that down jacket accessible, those kind of things. What's that one hack that you guys all think that's that biggest piece of advice? Oh, it comes down to fueling, and I think it's carrying a healthy amount of Manchego with you everywhere you go. (laughing) That'd be my go to hack, 'cause it's just concentrated fat and salt. (laughs) I'm not- Semi-serious. I think that is a good hack. Semi-serious. 'Cause that is very helpful, but I'm not a big believer in hacks. I think hacks come later. I'm always like go do it, optimize later. So my big hack is just go try it. Even if you have your grandma's old snow shoes, just go try it, just go out, optimize later. There is no hack until you actually have something to hack. So people are always wanting that hack to like get them spurred on, and I'm saying just go try it, hack later. That was your last mission you did with your hundred-dollar snow shoes a year ago right here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like should I wear 100-dollar snow shoes? It's always my M.O. It's like, "I'm going up!" And then, "They're breaking up!" So there was something wrong with them at some point. Oh, dude, it was uncomfortable. I would never do it again, but at least now I know I love it up there, and I can do this if I need to. But then, I hack, then I optimize, then I- After (laughing). I always feel like optimize later. That's my hack. Rod, how about you? Well, my hands got a little cold, so I think the hand warmers, just like stick 'em in there for warmth, that helped a lot. Hot sauce, too? Hot sauce. You brought hot sauce. Hot sauce, and I didn't have this, but (indistinct) would help. (laughing) I thought MythBusters debunked that, but that's another conversation. Yeah, yeah, the alcohol doesn't make you warm. It makes you feel warm? Yeah, exactly, exactly. (laughing) Makes you feel all- That's what it does. You feel all sorts of other things. It's still laugh enhancing, yeah? Yep, yep. (laughing) Isaac, I think that's one of the best things about watching your videos and the things you do is you are really good at your own personal hack. Like just go out and do it. You don't need the best gear. You don't need the fastest skis, whatever it is. Just make it happen. The bare minimum. The goal is always excitement and fun, and most people place the perfect gear setup or all this stuff kind of in front of having fun. And I'm like just go have fun and see if you like it first. It's always much more affordable if you just go see if you like it first, 'cause you may hate it. You may come out here and the snow is not your jam, but you never know until you try. And it's always good to just try. So just start with what you got, and go out there and see if you have a good time. I think that idea applies to a lot of things like photography. Many people ask me like, "Oh, what's your camera body? What's your favorite lens?" It's like just use what you have. The camera is not really, it's just a tool to capture the moment and tell a story. And if you have an iPhone, just use that. Totally, yeah. One of the things that might not have come through in the workshop, too, which was awesome to see and important to note I think, was you guys sharing lenses? And why carry twice the weight if you guys are gonna carry the same lens? That's a good tip. That's why you shoot Cannon. Yeah, exactly. Sponsored. (laughing) TM. (laughing) No, we all are Cannon shooters, so you can kind of (drowned out) and stuff. That's a good hack, it is a good hack, yeah. Because lenses are super heavy, especially the bigger, longer ones that you want to shoot in action scenes like ski scenes. The 100-400 I think is six pounds or something like that. Over last week. Let me use your lens. What did we do last week though? Did we all both bring a 24-70 to the same place? Yes. Oh, yeah. That's a very- (laughs) We did all bring the same exact lens (laughs). So again, learn from our own lessons. Yeah, exactly. Although, that lens almost never leaves body. So it's a good, versatile lens you can always have. But when it comes to like a 100- where it's super heavy and- They're not versatile? You need very specific shots then just carry (drowned out). Yeah, I should have just been carrying the 100-400, 'cause I literally got to a spot, and Rod had a 24-70, you had a 24-70, Tucker had a 24-70, and I had a 24-70. And I was like, "I need the 100-400!" "It's with Rod, he's over there!" (laughing) So it didn't help us to all have the same lens when it's the wrong lens for the situation. So you can, yeah, you can divvy it up. I also like to do this with the tent when we go on on trips. Or stoves. Tent or stove. So I'll carry the fuel, he'll carry the stove. I'll carry the poles, he'll carry the actual fabric of the tent. It's kind of a hack to keep everybody's weight in a similar level, because again, you basically don't want to be carrying unless you're a monster of a mountain man, you don't wanna be carrying over 40 pounds. Even that's pushing it when you're coming down on skis. It's too much. Ideally when you're skiing down, you want to be like 20 pounds or less. Barely. Yeah. Yeah. Planning ahead, I think that's the lesson there. Especially when the wrong- But not too much. Yeah, yeah, it's like hey, oh. Well, I guess we'll wait here. And then, the weather changes, and then I guess we'll wait longer now (laughing). So just part of the difficulty, but also, every trip is a learning experience, too. Here's the thing that I feel might be one of the largest barriers to getting into this is there is, in some of the outdoor community, there's a bit of an ego that I know what I'm doing and I'm an outdoor person, and I've never approached that. I don't care if people think that I'm an outdoor person. I oftentimes don't think I am myself, but I really also don't care if outdoor people, like I know people who have climbed Everest, and I don't care if they think I'm an outdoor person. I'm gonna ask them dumb questions and that's okay. The ego that you feel, it's not actually the vibe of the overall outdoor community. And you can just ask dumb questions and just go out there and go to your own level. And people are always gonna help you when you get out there. But I do notice that, that there is a tension to, "I don't know what I'm doing, I don't wanna look stupid." And I'm telling you, everybody looks stupid. The lens was on the wrong ridge. We didn't have walkie talkies. We all carried the same lens. It was stupid, that's just how things go, right? The goal is to stay safe, but also the main goal is to have fun. And it's okay to look stupid. (laughs) Yep. Yeah, I know about that. (laughing) (indistinct) Yeah, yeah, it's totally okay. I would say that if you're feeling that you don't want to look like you're don't know what you're doing, then just know that that is a normal feeling that we all feel. I still feel it to this day. I've been doing this since I was 10 years old, and I still feel like I don't know- Yes, just be confident. Yeah, it really opens you up to those experiences like meeting the guy from the resort, from Teton Pass. The owner of the resort it turns out. Chuck. Just by walking over and saying hello, that opens up those opportunities for new connections. Yeah, yeah. Suggestion on how many layers I have to wear. I always end up sweating. Hmm, too many. How many layers you should wear. I mean, generally, it's like a rule of three. Your base, your mid, and your shell, your outer, but I throw in a puffy in there sometimes depending on how hot it is and that's just experience. And if you're sweating, as soon as you start to feel your body, like you'll feel your body warming up, then that's when you delayer, before you start sweating. And you just stuff it back in your backpack. That's the ideal, but three layers I would say is usually what I do minimum. So my base like next to the skin, but it depends. Alex, he goes much more minimal on the way up than I do. I think it comes down to, I mean, sweating is a deep notion. Are you sweating 'cause you're going faster than you should be going, or are you sweating 'cause you're overdressed? First question I think. 'Cause sometimes I'm sweating and I'm like, wait, I'm just going too fast, slow down. Then, I'm not sweating anymore. When I have minimal layers and I'm still sweating, it's 'cause I'm just obviously either it's sunny on my back or I'm going too fast. So I think it's a combination of speed and layering, too. Especially in the winter because it's cold out. Or in the summer, too. So you're gonna sweat anyways in the summer. In the summer, yeah. It's just hot; you're gonna sweat. But in the winter, it'll be cold enough to keep your body mellow if you slow down. Also, one of the things that probably doesn't come through on camera that won't come through through the workshop is the amount of times that you're constantly taking a jacket off, putting one on, in those transition periods. Whether halfway up the mountains or at the top of the mountain. All the time, and you don't have to be specific about the shell thing. I was the guy a few years ago who was like, wait, shells go over your down, right? So I get up somewhere on my shell. Going up, I'm like, wait. Take my shell off, put my down, put my shell back on, because that's the order of things. But you can also be more freestyle and put your down jacket over your shell. It doesn't matter, right? 'Cause you're gonna be there with your down on. You're gonna ski down and then take the down on and keep skinning with your shell again. The rule book- I think it comes with experience, too, because I would never put my down over my shell if it was really warm out or warm for winter and wet snow, 'cause then your down's gonna be wet. So then at that experience, I would throw it underneath. But if you're only doing one run and you're going back to the cabin, who cares if your down gets wet. It'll be drying out, you know? So that just comes with experience. You kind of, again, do it and then optimize. But if you're sweating, yeah, slow down or take off more layers. I mean all the way down to... When it's April here and it'll be a 50-degree day, and you'll be going skinny- Shorts. Oh, shirt's off! I won't have any layers. It'll be zero layers. That sounds nice. That's the best way to go. It's a wonderful experience. It's not about the actual... It's just finding out what works for you. Some people are super sweaty. Some people not so much. (drowned out) Body temperatures. Yeah, I don't sweat very much on my body, so it's kind of nice that way. Keeping the toes warm. "What's your sock setup? My feet can never last longer than a few hours." I can totally relate to this one. Yeah, I think it's different, again, for everybody. My feet don't really get that cold, but my wife's feet get freezing. So I wear the thinnest ski sock I can get, again, 'cause I don't want to overheat and I want contact with my boot for more performance. But with her, we do a medium layer, kind of a slightly padded sock to get a little more insulation, and then we'll do toe warmers in the bottom of her boot. So they're like these little tiny hand warmers that you stick down in your insole, put your foot on there. And those are on really cold days. But then of course, we just try and limit her exposure to outside. We just do shorter trips and try and get to a cabin or somewhere where she can take her boots off. I've never used (indistinct) socks. Are they comfortable? Man. (drowned out) They're better than frozen toes. They're better than frozen toes I think. Okay, I can't imagine them being comfortable, 'cause that material or the hand warmers, they're kind of thick. No, they're thinner than that, they're thinner than that. They're also less warm than that. It's a compromise. I use wool socks and that works for me, it keeps me dry. And also, I think if he's getting wet, is it snow, is it sweat? Sweating. It's probably sweat, right? Could be sweat. On ski boots, I'm just thinking about ski boots I guess. Yeah. Yeah. My boots are such low volume that there's not much room for a thicker sock or anything. So I think it's pretty much that contact right from hard outside plastic right to your boot liner. Yeah, and then again, you can get ski boots with electric liners that are warm if you have problems with that. That's kinda like the best solution. But you can also get higher boots that have better liners that have more volume in the liner and some has reflective blankets. My snowboard boots have, the inside of them, but before the liner, is actually a reflective blanket on the inside. Did you say electric liner? Yeah, you get an electric liner? Yeah, with little battery. Yeah, for the discerning gentlemens and gentlewomans. (laughing) (drowned out) And you're just telling me this now? (laughing) Of course, snowboard boots are softer material, and they actually are warmer in most cases. In fact, my snow boots have vents on them to vent things out because they get too warm. I'd say it's also mental, too. If you start thinking, oh, my toe is starting to get cold, and I have the whole day like this, you start to sort of freak out on your own. But if you just like, yeah, it is the whole day, so I better start getting comfortable right now. So you just unbuckle the boots, let the blood flow, and for me it works. If I start feeling my cold toes and I'm like it's gonna be another 12 hours of this, that doesn't really work. So it's more like you're committed, it's gonna be fine. Your toes aren't gonna fall off. If you feel like it's gonna fall off, then you probably have to have a backup plan. But until you feel that, you're good. Yeah, yeah. Always goes, too, for if your feet are sweating, extra socks. I was gonna say that. Yeah, swap your socks out. Oh yeah, your sleeping socks and your day socks, night socks, for sure. Yeah, always carry, I think we mentioned that. Two pairs. Always carry two pairs. Always minimum two pairs. So then, when you get back to the cabin or wherever you're going, you can swap into other socks, let your liners dry out, hang up the other socks, let those dry out for the morning. Extra shirt. (drowned out) Management. Sleeping shirt. Good lord, the sleeping shirt is such a good idea. So much more comfortable. "How do you start? I've got the desire, but it seems expensive and hard here in Australia." Blue Mountains, eh? (laughing) (drowning each other out) There's only 4,000 kilometers from this person in Perth. (laughing) Yeah, I mean, I don't know their specific location issues. Location's very hard, but let's say that you are next to some of the ski resorts and some of the back country areas there in Australia. It is expensive. Craigslist or I think it's gonna be Gumtree. Yeah, Gumtree. Gumtree. Find yourself whatever used thing you can get that's gonna just make it work. A snowboard, some bindings, some used boots, some snow shoes. And then actually, it is hard, but you can do it. I think we mentioned this in some of the conversations throughout the episodes. Start at the resort, just find an area of side country or on the resort if they allow uphill travel where you can just hike up and come back down. Just practice where like there's limited risk, and you can just snowboard back down to your car if you don't like it and you want to adjust your setup. Or if you get totally sweaty, you're just in your car in 30 minutes, and you have the heat on, so it doesn't matter. There's no consequence. So just like any sport just start small. Make a slight progression. Maybe the question is also pertaining to being outside doing more outdoorsy stuff. So if this person is in the desert in the middle of the country, that's also an outdoors activity to try to go venture in that desert. Maybe you go for a day trip first. It doesn't have to be snow, I guess. It's just whatever is outdoors to challenge yourself in your photography, right? Right, right. Whatever you have around you. If you just want to take photography in the snow, let's say that they are near the snow and they don't have the budget for the snowboard, just get some snow shoes. Here, you can get snow shoes at the used gear shop for like 30, 40 bucks. It's not super fun to me (laughs). Some people love it. It's a start. But it's a start and you can get places you can shoot without just post-holding up to your waste in snow. You'll just kind of get some flotation and go out there and at least decide if you love it, and hopefully, catch the bug and start investing more of your time and money into doing it. And it took me, okay, let's preface this. I got my new splitboard last year. Before that, I was always using, borrowing Alex's gear, borrowing other people's gear, using a Craigslist splitboard. It is expensive, it's very expensive. It's so expensive that it took me till last year to finally get a new splitboard. So you don't have to start with new. Good advice, all right. Another great question from Liam, as well. "How do you judge risk with the higher stakes?" So obviously, you're in the back country, it's cold out, you're in avalanche terrain. How do you make those calls, those risk calls? I don't know if we're in the best position to talk about higher stakes (laughs). We kinda keep it manageable stakes. We keep it manageable ourselves. I was showing Rob a video this morning. He was showing me this snowboarding video this morning. This guy's going down this really steep, awesome mountain. No trees, just ripping. And I go, that's awesome, I would never snowboard that. (laughs) And he's like, why? I thought it looked cool, but what he told me, I would've never thought of. Maybe in the spring, yeah. Yeah, he was like, "Why?" And I go, "'Cause I don't have the knowledge for avalanche awareness on that." So I think, how do you judge risk, you don't. You find a mentor to take you out on higher risk terrain and let them judge the risk, and then ask them as many questions as you can. You don't wanna just start judging risk by yourself, because it's either you get buried by an avalanche or you don't. And how do you judge what you did right and what you did wrong? Lean on other experts for that. And just as you would take the advice of a guide or take their expertise in hand, I think it's also worth saying that you kind of have to, your group's risk level has to kind of shrink to that level of the lowest denominator. So no offense, Rod, but as a first timer in the back country, you kind of have to go on terrain that's maybe a little bit easier. Make sure that everybody's comfortable as a group. Yeah, which we did on the shoot. We picked a area we thought would be good for back country skiing. Didn't have the snow level we needed, but it had burned out trees that you could ski between, but they're very good anchors for the slope. Didn't even end up doing that. Ended up modifying and going in skiing a closed resort. Yeah, we had a backup plan. Yeah, but again, we all had great time, got some great photos, had fun. So yeah, how do you manage the risk? You take the lowest risk activity that you think will still work for you. Yeah, you gotta know what you don't know I guess. I don't know about this, yeah, maybe I'm gonna ask somebody first and go with them. If you have a higher budget, you can certainly hire a guide. That's an option. Or if you can't hire them, then you might want to- Trade. invest in a 24-pack of their favorite beer and try and convince them to come with you. That's the language of the ski bum (laughs). So you're always looking for expertise that you don't have, and mentor is just the best way to do that. Certainly. That's what it was actually. It was based on the plan B conversation. Obviously, you had a plan B to where you were gonna ski, but this was also the plan B trip to the plan A. So there's, in the winter, it almost seems like a common theme that you need not only a plan B but a C and a D, because- With anything, I think. It's just personal. The lowest risk is staying home, and that's always on the table, always. So it's like, man, we could just throw this and go home, have some coffee. Sometimes it's plan B, sometimes that's plan Z. Sometimes, we go through a lot of things before we get there, but sticking with your plan, that's the only thing you don't do almost is sticking with your plan when things change. Yeah. Gotta stay flexible. Very flexible. Especially in the winter. These two questions go really well hand-in-hand. So from Matt and KT, "What kind of gloves do you use when you're operating your cameras? And always curious what folks do for their hands. 26 of playing in the snow and I am outta luck." For me, my hands just freakishly, they just get slower. They don't actually get, they don't hurt, they don't feel the cold. They just get slower (laughs). I think that's just 'cause I've done so much in the winter outside that I've maybe damaged some nerve endings, I'm not sure (laughs). Just pulled a few fuses. So for me, I just do big hand, big gloves, like what Alex said, the lobster claws. They're like these Outdoor Research mittens, but they have one finger. And then when I go to operate my camera, I just take 'em off. Black Diamond. Black Diamond, Outdoor Research, Black Diamond. I don't know which one. But you pull 'em off, and then I just use the camera till my hands get so slow that I can't really use 'em, and I stick them back in the gloves. I wouldn't recommend that. Most people do, like Alex does small gloves inside of a bigger glove, then he pulls it out and he still has a smaller glove on. Yeah, just kinda have a small glove that I can do anything with. And when it starts to get cold, I can just get them in the lobster claw. And then for three-minute warmup, and then we're back again. Cycle them. (drowned out) Glove, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Again, using my wife as an example, she has a big glove with a little glove when it's really cold out and then actually hand warmers inside of the big gloves. 'Cause a lot of people, when their hands get cold, gloves don't actually have enough thermal efficiency to get their hand back warm again. And that's something I told my wife, too, is if your hands are feet cold, your core is not warm enough. 'Cause if your core is about to sweat, it's pushing excess heat out into your extremities. So you need to be warmer here to get your hands warm. But some people, again, my wife has just cold hands. So we do the hand warmers and the big gloves and the little gloves, a layering system. The pro tip there, I guess, would be, too, crack the hand warmers before you need them, 'cause they take a few minutes to heat up and such. So if you have them on the ready- When you're getting dressed to go outside, yeah. 'Cause a lot of 'em last for like 10, 12 hours. Yeah, but you also gotta keep 'em in a warm place or else they don't heat up. Oh, really? Yeah. That's what I was realizing. I kept 'em in my jacket and my jacket was in the backpack and they were cold. And then, I just put 'em in my gloves, and they just heat up in 10, 15 minutes. They have to be in a warm place to stay warm. So that's what I did. I would take off one glove, take my shot, and then when I was done, put it back on. The hand warmer worked well for your camera, too. You were using that in one of the field episodes where you wrapped it around the battery pack. And your hand was holding It was nice for my hand. on it. Nice for my hand, and makes the camera operate better and battery lasts longer. That's nice, but my fingertips would still get cold, then they'd start to slow down. But then, I just stuff 'em up underneath my beanie on my head. Get 'em just warm enough to work. If I was knowing that I had like, I was very far away, it was getting colder, camp was not gonna be like a very warm place like a tent, I'd probably manage my cold fingers a little better than that, a little wiser than that. But I know that we were gonna be back to the car soon or back to the hut soon. So cold hands, I'll just warm 'em later. I'll be in a situation where I can. But again, it's something to manage if you don't have that. Yeah, Alex, your liner system works well, too, because of course, it's preventing exposure from the wind, from the elements. Yeah, the little gloves are good for that. Yeah, that's the first thing I've found so far is the little glove with the big glove. How do you keep your food and water from freezing solid? Don't. You don't. (laughing) Keep it in your chest. (drowned out) Put 'em in an insulated thing, but yeah, we do dehydrated foods, so they don't freeze. There's no moisture in them, but water freezes. And then, you can do this (indistinct) heavy, right? Heavy. We just bring enough fuel for our stoves or firewood for the fire to melt snow anyway for water. So if our water freezes that we brought there, we just melt that, too. Yeah, I mean it would take a lot for it to freeze throughout the day. Maybe it starts to turn into smoothie ice, you know? But that's as worse as it gets. Yeah. Also, the dry food doesn't. Yeah, the dry food, no, but it's your water for the day. Yeah, your water for the day can freeze, but if it's really freezing that quickly, it's probably gonna be below zero Fahrenheit. And you don't stay in that. We're talking in a whole, this is not outdoor skills 101 at that point. (laughing) Maybe go learn on a day where it's a little bit warmer. 15 degrees, 25 degrees, something like that. Keeping your water, of course, inside your backpack more protected. It's not on the outside of your pack. It'll last little bit longer. Yeah, cool.