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Editing the Documentary with an Editor

All right, welcome back and we're here at the moment of truth, but first we're gonna give away some twitter giveaways, right and way change that plan. We're going to just do that at the end of the day. Okay? I'm so sorry. Uh, let's go right into the edit. And, um, what we're going to do today is get to as far of a point as we can with the time we have in terms initial edit, uh, to show you how these things are coming together and talk you through it. Take questions along the way. And the plan for dan to really spend a lot more time on tonight, um, and give us a finished product tomorrow. You really see where it all comes together in a much more finish way? Uh, I guess the first thing we're gonna do is we're going tio play for the piece. Just the base. Like the base layer of the interview. This is just interview footage that I pulled out some of my quotes based on my notes and stuff like that, and I started putting them together. Uh, challenge for he was figuring out what the first line...

wass usually when you working in these circumstances once I figured very much what that wass, um, I have pretty good uh, sense of where this is going. But I always reserve the right in concert consultation with the director, of course, to recommend me changing my mind. But at this point, we've got a nice little character sketch, so we're going to watch him. One. If you look at the timeline here, I have all my video, actually is in here, all three of my different cameras. But right now, I'm just going to. As I've been working, I've just been looking at that that one main master shot so that's what we'll be looking at until they start cutting back into very process driven and it's, you know, they're building it's about that peace process kind of is evolving, you know, photography has been my main thing sculpture had been going really well, but it's, I'm still, you know, figuring out the way that I like to work best, you know, some some people really like to make their money from the artwork on people like to release that pressure from their artwork and have side jobs and kind of kind of do a mix of the two I mostly I feel pretty lucky and most people respond really positive lead in my work, and I really enjoyed that, but it's, I do enjoy the counterpoints of of people reaction experience in new york like really engagement are speaking just like make up stuff that I didn't mean and just kind of walked away from that one. Um, I I like to make things that are beautiful I'm starting work more conceptually than I used to, but I think it's funny when people wanted to find their universe based on your like, just make this convoluted story that isn't necessarily there, which doesn't that's where we are way seem like what now, okay but this is the meat of it this is a this is a character study what I figured out that you know, miguel's over the compelling character is a part of it was really great on camera on we have a lot of biographical information and ultimately we could put that to good use and stuff like that but I wanted for today's purpose with short pieces like it's a nice character sketch okay? And then we have in the process of going through the b roll right now and uh and then figuring out because we want to see him really at work that's what he does he's an artist thinks of himself today one of the quick little insight size if you had on ly one camera you saw how moving the camera like that continually disaster in those cuts you know you can't hide them um you comport with people on it, but the fact was that last thing that we had like three cameras allowed us to have that liberty right? And they're already todo aiken to start now experimenting and distorted because they're all cut ready to go I concert dropping them out and that will tell me even a little bit more start sort of really kind of tightening these things up and then then I start thinking about what I'm envisioning that we want to see him at work right away uh with a little bit of your old with a little bit of the audio bed behind that and we want to maybe move in and out so I make split this up get back to him just working on stuff like that and again that's like just going through the bureau taking a looking you know potentially how that would work um let me step through my process were how I got to this point really quickly so that I understand a little bit about the way that I work but also the way that premiere works and the first thing is I just brought everything in panel and I brought everything thing in and I organized it right away it's based on the same naming conventions that the love for a company uses uh based on camera okay some people can work their data compete camera related in some people could be card related ok and this was done by camera really helped me actually think about without actually being up to see it a lot of the b roll or a lot of the shots while I was watching is to think sort three dimensionally about like how this stuff is going to come together with viewer in the middle receiving that so that was super helpful um so I organized everything then I went ahead and I put just put it in a time line before I went on and tried to sink it up ok, so it's all my video all my audio, all the camera audio and then all of the audio that was coming from the other feeds the lava lear and the shotgun microphone um and then I went ahead and put it through plural eyes and realized it's magic and it's a pretty good hung up on one of the clips on I had to spend a little bit of time doing that, but once I sort of figured that out in the time could with super helpful I went through based on the notes that I took this morning okay remember I was sitting there and I was paying attention as much as I possibly can and I'm not a fascinating writer to write everything for bait him, but generally every first answer to every question it's a quote really jumped out at me I went ahead and wrote it down, okay? And then I just started okay there's forms that you can use actually to help you in that process if you're doing both but I just want to feel pretty comfortable working in that way. And so I went, if you look at the timeline down here I went beginning with first time I went through the entire piece okay and then talked about these different sections because I use plural eyes and everything that all these different elements and that are now locked down into one sequence it's better I could go through every clip, chop it up and renamed every clip but this is a really efficient use of markers and what we call metadata okay? Because now I can leave this alone it's marked everything's locked in sync is perfect and then I can begin mcknight decisions and I think about it it's like levels of pallets I'll start cutting here I'll copy that material moving into my master folder and that's where you put elements together step like that so I went through um made little comments where I had time to hey there you know all the way you know, through the project, okay? And then based on those ideas I come back I listened to the quote that I look at the video uh need and then I what I do is I just basically I'll highlight a section let's say that I have back here to something like this all highlighted so we'll go ahead just dragged through here I do shift command k which cuts it cuts all of them together so I could cut here that's it all on the line. Go ahead and this is going to just comand see, copy that and then go to my master and I'll just put it out here so I could give you just drop it in like boom boom based on based on what I've listened to and we start building story that one so you basically went for the entire that was the original timeline every time you put a marker is like the different points he's making you like them and dropping them sequentially into the timeline yeah, but that's where the editing happens that's where it's like ok what's my first line what's the story about what's you know what's the point you know that's not an easy thing you know, in any kind of headache circumstances much less like we can all do this in one day so I think I got a good first line at least got me thinking about well, this is we were going to be most successful today on this is that a character sketch? We have a lot of great material he talks about his childhood they're awesome anecdotes and stories about that he's gone ahead he's provided actually maura background material in terms of photographs and stuff like that which I even he's just actually put that all together. So he's been a great partner and telling his story okay, so we have an embarrassment of riches but because we have so much material it also means that it's going to take probably a little longer okay, so we were ultimately successful good yeah yeah so and thanks to the students for, you know, doing such a great great job uh this may be a good time to maybe I've started looking at some of the b roll if you want to look at the role now is there anything you want? We're all dying to see what it looks like. Okay, all right, so there was is just in here. How much did you estimate that is justin here? How much shot? There was a lot of your old shot which is awesome, which is great and it was isolated into two sort of bands or reels you know, if you're working in final cut too when you name some of your stuff maybe conventions you can use a real and so again they're using a b, c, d and e and e me in the the bureau sections and I've gone through go through d cam yes, I did give you an idea. This is just one set. Uh, this's just one people and I've gone through every clip now to make things easier it's cut down time for may. What I did is I dropped them down into a subset of b roll good. Okay clips that I think oh worked pretty well for our project as I start to think about it so you get the thirty down to twelve twelve clips very much so let's just take a look about let's review them again because I think for these, no one else has seen that besides whoever was on the camera and mean at this point and maybe who ever shot this could maybe talk a little bit about their process too, because I like to know, so I chose this one again I said when I copied them, I said it and out points of what I liked about this this is a potentially good establishing shot we see our subject right away we're at maybe a fifty millimeter lens here, something like that, you know, we're close enough the light's pretty good, but you'll see that like, I mean, he falls out of focus back there so that's not really usable all this area here is controlled this is the area that actually is the end in the out point that I've established for this down here, so I'm just now going beyond that frame, okay? And that is good that you just held this for a while and then you get this great little rack focus, but boom, you just fall away so you can't really use that right there that's a nice little thing where he looks up comes into focus, but then you know, if you'd held there, you know, but it's hard it's hard with these candidates there's light, I'm assuming this was on not a very heavy rig you may be distracted princeton you ask people why was heavy right these air me for what I done they're pretty they're pretty like this is a nice little pan and probably what I'll do helpful to is for people on the web show rather than tell the key so they can see it full screen because I'm sure they're watching a very small portion okay well I don't actually know that coming through so it does go out but it goes enough and I'm thinking I haven't seen the other b roll yet but I'm pretty confident that this is going to be kind of an impression impressionistic piece is going to be very sort of ambien you know so you know a little out of focus you know might potentially work and this is just a nice piece of documentation of one of his pieces or two of this piece that's the red that strong that again beginning of what it's a nice detail really deeply into sculpture that's gonna work well what are some of the things that you think you're saying just looking I want to make sure people realize that you know if you look at the entire timeline he's collecting five ten percent chuck's going keep in mind is that you know as you're shooting and quote unquote screwing up and getting frustrated if that's what's happening realize it it's okay you know as long as I got that five or ten percent wait, we're going to be able to put a piece together, and I would just keep cycling for the the bureau as quickly as possible and let's, just start assembling something, okay? Great. I made a request to take a look at some of the flat art and so move here. There's a nice little move, you know, that's probably all I use, though I kind of grabbed it and I want to go backwards in that my favorite nice wide angle shot, though I'm hoping I'm gonna find more wide angle footage because, of course, got another, uh, cameraperson is the shot and we don't have our setup in the shot anymore. But it's a good start, okay? And I'm a big believer in white angle footage for this kind of stuff. Someone working like that looks awesome, tio except he doesn't actually put the thing on, so I think he does next wait there's a shock. So how about going and taking a look at some of the b roll that happened? Yeah, way could talk a little bit about what you think of that footage because I haven't looked at it get closer and the chat room they're saying it's really cool to see the editor's point of view here, okay, I think I see it a good way of thinking of the editing process it's a big puzzle lots of pieces it's kind like a rubik's cube well and trying to find these little slices and figure out what your you know your puzzle is in which pieces you need, which is a strong and make sure you don't repeat yourself right? And so some of the things I'm hyper aware of with this kind of footage is how much jell o is going to happen with a handheld there's like a chant of jell o right here but I don't see anything this clip that's actually gonna be useful so and I got what's called scrubbing and I apologize to the viewers who have to watch this but I have to scrub through this moment evaluated quickly enough we can make it work good shot of the hands nice up from the hands to the face but little soft focus I've been hearing the audio live our we're studying it down because that could be really annoying scrubbing yeah, I would meet the audio describing this psych okay scratching your nails on the chalkboard uh can I control it from here and I'll just meet it? Yeah that's probably don't do that, okay, right? And I will want somebody definitely want somebody at some point, so I'm making some decisions like don't show you kind of what I what I probably do if I chose so here's a nice shaky way got close there go back to see if I've got enough here well, I've played a real time to see if it's yeah wait an earthquake and this is where I really need to take time if there's like that to second in focus was wrong can without paying attention now so what's the what's the minimum amount of time that you're looking for for that like stay in focus did you say tea time? Um when you're saying that's quite not quite there I think also I mean there's no real answer that I've seen editors use one frame you know, flashing back and forth but I think generally um focus your choice of focus is supposed to be a storytelling element, you know? So um if you're out of focus and you're going into focus obviously you're trying to draw the attention to that point also when you rack focus or go from point a to point b you might focus from this bottle over to that mouse sort of my face for a reason try and on dh suggests a relationship between this and me so if you're wide room and you have fifteen people and you go from only this one person's face being and focus and the person although in the background being and focus that's kind of part of cinematic language in terms of helping guide the audience you know so every tool you ever you're just at your disposal whether it's the way you focus lens choice light is a storytelling element and technique now the thing that I kind of want to ask you which is everyone has their own style um I like to try and, um edit that base layer that we had uh we had three camps going effectively and do you think it be worthwhile trying tio intercut those three emergency that one line or you'd rather overlay the b roll first and then terms those no either way works fine at this point either way would good so we can go and take a look at that material. We're going to start off this one down here and show how you would intercut between the three to hide and mask those those cuts, those jump cuts that we saw let me show you how I got this set up. So right now we have our was called the a camera and I haven't rename this yet because I just made this master here, but I can go ahead and rename it so this is camp a we want to turn the o o he's honest it's, my favorite okay? And I've got turned on for those of you know, adovia products is in the eye and this is kind of the same concept with with final two but that's where those are three angles on me so you got this one that one that I've been concentrating on the master shot so I get go ahead all the master shot for this one and these are all cut and ready to go now so you know I can take a look if I'm gonna cut here from a second a clip like that angle do I like that angle chances are it's like me to make a cut here my process that's the way it's gonna work with the same thing and I think that looks pretty good go ahead keep these on you kind of have to kind of dance with this at this point I don't believe the other one if I don't like it this is kind of preview that do you mind if we kind of ask questions while you guys are we gotta go ahead okay. Um wcbs so there's been no trans coding of the footage at this point crackers rhino named okay since syria's in premier that's the cool part okay, yeah, they can hear the audience about I don't think they got anything going really well but it's okay and so maybe what we'll do is we'll just kind of bounce around here and uh yeah but I want to get one thing working very quickly I want to do a fail safe, you know? So maybe what I want to do before I make too many other changes on this uh this master I might want to just make a copy of it so that way if I need to come back and make some changes I've got a pristine version I guess the question three right now as you mentioned that the time on you have right now is about I've been in twenty seconds like that fifteen is that could be your final lengthen the end because you also ok so we're going toe elongate this not online yeah so uh why don't we concentrate on just a small part of this perhaps like the first was picking a fifteen or twenty seconds sequence and see if we can just come out with um you know, adding one or two file photos that he gave us a swell of some of the b roll that matches a language and some of the interview footage that kind of all marriages together in layers that people can see sort of stuff coming together good okay and so what I'm gonna do is something quickly to take all this section and I'm gonna copy it great new sequence I'm gonna call this uh day two final people are just dying to know why you're not using the multi cam feature though what multi cam feature up because we didn't marry time code to this at this point okay I believed to have multi can actually work well do you actually have to have the time code married to footage? If someone knows better differently than you know, that's one possible, ok? And I'm gonna go ahead on and make a couple changes here, delete some unused tracks all into tracks so that we've compressed are filed in here. It's a room at the beginning very process minutes they're building it, it's very process driven and it's you know, when I'm there building it it's about that peace process kind of is evolving. You know, photography has been my main thing sculpture has been going really well, but it's still, you know, figuring out the way that I like to work best because that may be what I'll do is I'll move the next couple pieces out of here, we will cut into a little section of the role there where would you like to actually see? Maybe something just on top of that stuff? Yeah, I think I'm trying to see people shots show the layers to it, see how stuff starts to come together like here. But right now I'm not gonna worry about mixing audio too much. Okay? So I'm gonna have to be able work this doctor, so I apologize for seeing this, but I want to make some space here could do so what I'm going to do you want to be one of things that dan is having a hard time with is because we're trying to raise this to be streamed he's working it workspace is probably a third the size of what he's only working and um you're spending all your time moving windows around and as opposed to doing stuff um when you can't even see three timelines are three video tracks once and when I'd like to show you is that I could just drank the video over and so drag it down here so maybe you could do that I'd prefer not to cut into that to do was called a hell cut let's hope that that looks like, you know, some some people really like in terms of cameras here figuring out the way that I like toward the best you know, some some people really like to make their money from their u turn his head it's a nice shot where it's a nice opportunity transition just double check that you know, figuring out the way that I like toward best, you know, some some people really like okay? And then I think I'm going to go back to the b roll that I that I know that's pretty good I'm gonna find uh maybe the first one yeah, we never find it just a little bit more just some prep shots of him working in the in the studio very process driven and it's you know, when I'm there built vince lombardi wants to know if the editor gives you visual ideas that you never envisioned that worked really well sometimes ideally hopefully yeah, I mean, the idea of working with the other is that they see stuff you don't see they pick up on moments that you never intended, you know? So you know a good example of a piece that I could talk about for people like reverie there were moments for example, where the with alex the actress was standing there and we were just turn the light on she's waiting for us to yell action and andre just found that piece that's just a nice little cutting piece so it's never intend intend to be part of the peace but he found this nice little moment that as is a good transitionary piece in the final final film um I guess our goal right now is going to be to give dan sometimes you kind of go through this overnight, put a secret together, have a finished product uh, we might rework our schedule a little bit tomorrow depending how you want to do it to see how he brought it together um and right now we're gonna jump some q and a I believe and also give some surprises that kind of wrapping up the day um and go from there well, why don't we get the party started with some prices? Yes, like surprises yes let's do that let's give away let's give away our last two prizes for the day which are some really great, right? Yeah, way saved the best for the last so the first prize when the first prize we're giving away is a zeiss plan r fifty millimeter one point four z e lends price of that is seven hundred twenty five dollars suite and the winner everyone is rod coal from austin, texas relations way what he tweeted out he tweeted out the biggest obstacle is that you are learning a new language so thank you very much rods and for a price yeah so the night this one gets even better uh this prize is the schneider optics set of four neutral density filters that is a sweet one thousand dollars planner and amazing you know there are four by five point six five filters so get that mad box your pretty much set outside of getting maybe a polarizer or grad nd uh you're good to go for a long time that's amazing when that this is like life changing pretty cool on the winner is, um john a um and the twitter handle is at our thea yeah johnny all your johnny's uh twitter handle of a uh uh and that quote was just go with it and let yourself breathe life into the peace, so congratulations, awesome on we'll be giving away even more prices tomorrow more more to come, so don't give up don't give up those tweets on twitter cool what's next do we call it a human? A q and a let's go for a q and a yes, right hit it cannot. All right, um, this question was via twitter from simply, are li er with a fifty one point four lens? What distance do you have on a crops sensor once focused for your subject to move and remain focused? All I have well, do you have the will tell me that wheat about night falls now would be on me? Uh, I mentioned earlier is called p cam great. Um and you basically tell us what sy sensor you're at, uh, what aperture you're set to and a distance your subject and I will tell you exactly from what distance in front and behind focused on any given aperture it's called hyper focal. Absolutely. Okay, next questions from black pixels. Um says they often edit on location. What tips would you give for? Same day edits for weddings. Um, shoot less footage, use that start stop, but in a lot more than we were using here, apparently, um and um basically you need a lot of support you know if you're doing same day weddings um on their forget I was scuba diving once years ago and a videographer shot a video of me uh and my wife all in camera start stopping in other words no editing he was editing as he was shooting okay, so uh he would hand us tape at the end of the dive and it was that it because he was editing as he was shooting underwater that's what I would tend to call skill um and there wasn't a single shot that went too long or was too short or out of focus and that's discipline that's that's a skill set that's very specific so you can get to that point you know, an ultimate it's where you would love to be uh I don't think most normal human beings can do that um and it definitely takes practice but you know, you know, try to make sure you edit what you can handle or you shoot what you can handle, um and have support to help you sift through all the footage all the stuff to the side uh and we're doing what we're doing here is super ambitious and I think what happened obviously is the main footage that we shot got missed, you know didn't get important and that just kind of let us like, oh boy, you know um we just lost I think we lost twenty minutes there that were pretty critical that's fine we'll just you know we'll make it up and we'll show it tomorrow but um you really have to be very clearly defined workflow make sure you can shoot you should only as many as much fun as you can handle so that when the question comes well should I add a second camera a lot of third camera maybe it might make my peace potentially more rich but also might make it impossible for me to do my edit in the time that have a lot of so maybe working with just one camera if I'm by myself or even editor is the way to start and as I want to expand the number of cameras I also need to expand the amount of support that's there to help edit and sit for that footage sometimes it feels like it's almost exponential you know there's some tips though I mean the great thing about a weddings that presumably your meeting with the wedding planner and you know what the show flow is so why not actually do some story about you know before you do it so that you can shoot to add it so you're looking you started I want that shot in that way you know the location it's pretty controlled but you know what he's going through at a wedding but and then you can have been the other cameras sole job can be finding those little moments that are happening outside of the main ceremony but why not set your shot list and then d'oh you look at some wedding videos now and they they they look amazing really for videographer it's like intimidating like they're doing that for weddings wow, you know but I think that's what they're doing supplying cool awesome thank you. So question from photographer you by a different um with regard to storyboards the question was what it hoped to have a rough storyboard to edit this documentary or is that not done? I don't know that you need for this this documentary and there's nothing there's nothing wrong with having storyboards the reality is on this piece we could really predict what miguel was going to do, you know, realistically uh we couldn't really predict what tools he was going to use the silly or what was go look for the final piece. So through the documentary you have to have less of the storyboard mentality as much and more of a, uh checklist in your mind uh do I have my establishing peace of the environment? Do I have a piece to start off with me so you know, is he sitting down for the first time or turning on a machine? Do I have him getting out for an exit do I have a nice shot of him talking to are some neat little shots and that's what I would call like the basic, you know, one o one um floor plan or, you know, road map and then as you become more and more sophisticated, you'll say, you know, there's no way I want, you know, introduced an introduction piece or an exit piece and it's just that's so, you know, basic, I want to get more sophisticated, but initially as you're starting, um, I understand that, you know, there's a start in an end and, you know, you have the interviews, you're based track and you read layers on top of it and as you master, that go ahead and pushing available further and where the peace like something we saw earlier this morning by stephen mcgee, where it is a little more out there and a little more, you know, breaking the rules, but before you could break the rules, you kind of need to master them um, unless you're no a mad genius that khun suddenly just make everything work and they're different people out there like that mcgee did himself a lot of favorites, even shoot any interviews there's no voice in that so he could head it very impressive impression on impressionistic lee didn't have to lock himself too the narrative elements that were sort of put into that so you know not that I would say that a good document he's done that you know you have choices and that was just one piece. And if you look at the sightings got dozens of interviews pieces they're very differently done with similar style. So it's just everything. Every projects hopefully is different if you do everything the same way as for me, I find that becomes quite boring quite quickly. So quick. Follow up from you. First I was there a shot list for this for the shoot there was, uh, it's just right here. Um, I think business this was the initial shot list. And then based on the interview we actually did have justin had, you know, six or the six different shots right there. Was it the ones? Okay, so there was our shot lists that was just based on the notes that we caught in the right. And I think you probably have some of your own. Yeah, exactly. So this was like the road map that we have that we need. We knew we needed tohave at a minimum to go along with the interview and then, you know, you see the sparks and you find a cooler angle and you go with it and anything additional is even better we have a question from twitter from john flanagan do you ever have to explain yourself to clients for using dslr is instead of riel cameras um it's really cameras to see real camera that's all I have a lot of people say that it isn't quotes air kadam by tamra faint freeze he was defended by that really cameras but when I use my fake dslr cameras that aren't really there um I produce real footage um you know I mean that you sure you have to explain yourself sometimes and explain the pros and cons of that camera? Um the prose of that camera is they're lightweight they're relatively inexpensive um you they're much more mobile uh they're much more sensitive to light that most other cameras they allow you a bit more flexibility in certain areas and, um, depending on what you're shooting that they're the perfect tool um and on some other subject matter, they're not the best tool at all. So if you want to shoot action sequences uh where there's lots of movement they're going to pale in comparison, some other types of cameras and um, uh, you do explain yourself and more importantly, if clients asking you to shoot with the sl ours and you don't think that they're right for the job it's your responsibility to say that right then and there as opposed to saying sure, I'll take a job with dslr knowing full well you're backing yourself into a corner so always be up front and, um educate yourself on the strengths of each and every different tools so you know, if you want to shoot ah, high speed a thousand frames a second the phantom camera is definitely the way to go if you want around run around the streets of new york at night it's not the way to go. Um, you know, and that's that's why every tool what has its place? Okay, thanks for answering. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think that's great information for people who are just starting out who that is their tool. So to be able to respond with that a question from tom from kalamazoo. At what point do you bring music into the edit and then also added on to that, will you use music in the background for this interview? And why or why not? Uh, we do have plan on jeff composing a little something for us for this piece um and I think it depends. You know, I I love to, you know, for commercials, for example, I love to have a piece of music in mind before I ever storyboard anything so that I have, you know, kind of a when I read a treatment are actually right now here's two or three song references that I would, you know, think fit the mood of what's in my mind and actually as your storyboard and shoot try to follow the ebbs and flows of the music ah, and the rhythm so that you're not trying to squeeze things in in the last minute with that song um, it's ah it's a luxury to have some actually composed for you based on your on your video unless you, you know, are doing narratives or commercials? Um, it kind of works both ways, I guess depends on who your friends are, but it's definitely up to you and I've done both ways, and it works both ways. Um, you can have a set piece of music that you're trying to fit video to, um or you just edit your video and have someone try to compose around it. Another question, from tom from kalamazoo, both in shooting and editing do you assess a scene for certain color or texture themes before diving in things that you can pull out to amp up the interest? Absolutely, I mean, in the piece we're doing tomorrow, um, you know, I communicated tio our set decorator first a designer, uh, our wardrobe, um, as well as to my gaffer, um the general tone in terms of colors and palate they were looking for uh we're looking for stuff with bright punchy colors are we looking for muted colors and how is lighting a compliment that and that's part of our direction and usually you may work with almost always seemed to work no matter how small ways even the smallest production I've worked on it always work for the north director you know who works in conjunction with the director so that you know everything comes together cohesively and you said together or look that works and that's that's pretty important it's part of it's it's a very important part of any any filmmaking process and so if it's if you're if you're just walking into sort of ah documentary scenario do you actively look around documentary is supposedly more of a journalistic approach where you're not trying to create a story or trying to document reality as much as you can as faithfully as you can. So I think to your question earlier um you know in tv there's a bit more liberty where someone will say, can you not wear that shirt or, you know, that's going to blow out on tv cameras and whatnot as a photojournalist, you would never ever tell anyone what to wear, what they're wearing, what they're wearing you know, and if someone used to ask me as a photojournalist, what should I wear I would say whatever you're going to wear tomorrow if whatever you would wear tomorrow if I weren't coming you know uh where as you know, on the documentary you might have a dress a little better or you know, a bit more produced and definitely when you go into cinema you tell him exactly what you want more effect you say bring four or five varieties of your stuff in our wardrobe person will bring four five fridays of what I have talked about and we'll pick the ultimate decision. Like right to the left of this door are seven different suits for the gentlemen actor they were working with tomorrow for different seven different dresses for one actress in two or three for the third actress so got options we're going to take one last question this is kind of the question everybody wants to know the answers to yeah, um kelly hoffer would like to know are there certain stories or techniques that you find get the strongest reaction from audiences? Stories were techniques they have yeah both either I cancer techniques that's too broad there's so many different techniques uh stories I think any story that, uh tugs at the heartstrings um, whether you know it's something like eighty or something deeper uh when you can make an emotional connection with your audience, those always tend to be, uh the fan favorites. The more successful films, um, cerebral movies, uh, more where you have to think, uh, I love and, but it tends to narrow the kind of the audience target that you have. But, you know any story where the story itself is compelling and is engaging as inspiring. Um, and that takes people, especially on a ride from low to high, tends to be pretty successful.