Lessons

Lesson Info

Client Consultation

in the consultation is preparing mom getting to know the children pricing clothing location time of day what to expect I mean I'm gonna talk to her about her ages of her children I've got my little no pad ready previewing the session how are we going to see the session asking questions portrait agreement um setting a date and a deposit um so I'm gonna try to come in hi trudy how are you it's good to see you I'm a hugger you just gotta hug people it's so nice to see you yeah how are you great are you excited for today let's do they're like pre before consultation thing okay so are you excited makeup looks good thank you kids good uh they were cute they came all wrapped up in blankets this morning like you just rolled him out of bed and into the car pretty much yeah yesterday's family came all properly dressed it like a m I was like how did you get nine children properly dressed a that's crazy three I didn't yeah right there when they got here yesterday were all dressed completely like i...

t was awesome so they're going to go get me that but we're going to sit down and we're gonna go basically one on one as I would do a consultation with mom and I just brought mom and because ninety nine point nine percent of the time it's mom comes to see me and so it's mom who wants the portrait and we're gonna go through all that stuff all right so let's do it I'm going to use my laptop here hopefully you can get it in closer you're gonna be able to look at the screen because um at home now in my home studio I do have a big screen tv it's like a sixty inch or whatever it is giant screen tv that my clients will view slide shows on and few their images on and so it's kind of an interactive consultation but go ahead and have a seat all right so tell me how many children do you have I have three three children what are their names hazel in hazel and she has a nickname hazy hazy love that uh jordan how do you spell that j o d o n j o d o n and he is how old eleven eleven and hazy is thirteen thirteen is almost fourteen yeah sixty she said right yes she's counting down and then kennedy kennedy I love that name thank you it's a classic name and she's nine yes nine years old awesome so what are the kids into ah hey solin is into animals loves horses dogs in reading you have dogs we have a dog you d'oh d'oh that wasn't a real happy face he didn't come for the family picture thank you way talked about that yesterday um so she likes animals horses that she play sport it's uh she likes basketball basketball that you have a favorite team um not that much just places this place um and she is in seventh or eighth grade eighth eighth awesome so next year's high school yes she excited it yeah she has this is great this is for me what I'm doing right now is I like to get to know a little bit about each of your children so that when I'm working with them I have things to talk some about as opposed to just asking them to smile I don't really like to ask kids to smile because we always usually get that unnatural fake smile that mom doesn't generally like so what I'll do is you know I'm asking for information about each of your children and what they're into what they like it this way when I'm photographing hazy and blake you know so you know you like animals you know what's your favorite type of horse or you're going in a high school next year we excited about that you know all kinds of stuff like that is she like a girly girl talk boy she's a lot more tomboy okay uh but she still got that girly cited about that girly side too are also yeah um boyfriend now okay thanks yeah I know I always ask is it it was like somebody there's like a crush on or like something I can tease her about on dh jordan uh he's my little nerd he's anything smart nerdy so I'm guessing he doesn't like to be called that where does he oh no he loves to be called a nerd oh racism and what an awesome he's titled himself awesome I'll say he's an awesome nerd he's an awesome nerd I got it that's what I need that that's what I need to know he's an awesome nerd and so is like math science oh yeah if he's he's just smart so what type of sign says he like uh it's mechanical like taking things apart building things figuring things out oh cool so he takes stuff part in your house yeah way fixes things teo fixes things that dads sometimes doesn't fix no way I say it like that sitting in front of like the tv and the cord to the vcr dvd or on the floor and it's open and you're like no it is good oh he's good at it he's good at it well that's funny a natural knack right and then kennedy she's the girly girl girly girl this princess does she have a favorite princess bill all little girls that age have a favorite princess yeah okay um what else does she do uh she's obsessed with david wallace and babies okay yeah she is your baby here girlie girl that's funny and she's in third their great great and jordan is in sixth grade six oh he's like my daughter's in the sixth grade well that's cool perfect and your husband's name leo yep yep is he a little on the shire side he's a little quiet it was quiet yeah some so I know you've probably seen my work before what is it about my work that you particularly like and that you want to see for your family I really like how you bring a family together in the they look like they like each other yeah on their very warm images usually I like that no good do you have idea of where you want to put a portrayed in your home a wall portrait yes we need some portrait's on her well okay and uh so I have a big space above kinda like a mantle that's not really mental it's over a roll top desk of my dad's oh cool so it's like an antique roll top desk okay what type of what is it okay okay so we might want to do like framing too sort of blend in with that yeah so maybe like more brown's wood tones and yeah desert scene might be really nice for you oh yeah yeah um and you know how big that spaces I I don't know the dimensions but it's large okay so the good thing to do maybe when you go home today would be just measure it out for me before we meet again so that we have an idea of what size would need to go in there okay great um and then uh clothing have you thought about clothing um yeah a little a little bit it's hard and it's a hard so I'm going tio take you through a little bit uh some of the images so kind of a little bit of a slide show um we'll go through them and in this way you can tell me what settings that you like and um this is this area is just outside my home it's like a little wash way between my home and the home next door so that it's really easy to get to obviously but it's very desert e it's warm it's like using this chair I'll bring out tio suppose people together this is actually the park if you like more greens if you like a little bit of the rate railroad track um we can go to the park so I'm just giving you some different ideas of places to go this is also in the park which is really fun this door is uh a big barn style door that leads into a tunnel where the train is stored and the reason why I like to work during the week is because the train doesn't run during the week which is you know it makes it easier but that's a fun location also this is that same location I was referring to earlier that space between my home it just it doesn't look like very much but it's a really fun background and this is actually across the street from my home there's a little trail that goes out into ah like whole desert scene and in the right time of year the colors are just beautiful and this is also interesting as we're going through this teo kind of look at the clothing and see what style that you like it if you like everybody in the same color if you like to mix it up a little bit and we can always see that I tend to stay towards muted colors it's really important to me that over the years that the clothing doesn't date your photograph and that the cooling doesn't distract from the faces that make sense yeah yeah you know how sometimes you look at old family photo wow harold always sort of data a portrait but I like to keep a close simple and classic so that it's no definitely not dating your portrait I don't want you to think in like a couple of years we need to change that because yeah I want you to look at it always in me like I love that stage of life I love that age I love that portrait I don't want it to be something you never take off the wall that maybe we add two over the years but not like replace um this is the same location I'm just taking you through some images so that you get an idea of what we dio with that little kid's face isn't he cute this is an area in the country club by the water by the the golf course which is really pretty weird to be careful at the time of day because there's not a whole lot of open shade for me to work in so when I take my subjects out a lot of times I'll take my you know portrait sessions out and you look at the location and be like really but the things that I'm looking for in a location are often different than what looks pretty tio to the naked eye so this location is great it has to kind of be a nice overcast day with little shadow um I love that this is the park again this is by the leg and this is just you know the kids just having fun and this is probably not far off the ages of your kids yeah yeah looks about right looks about right um this is the desert up off daisy mountain and and this is a good location to we have to go here late and they also it doesn't offer a lot of open shade so the later in the day we go the better but you get the view of the mountain I call that mountain the moody indian because if you look at it it looks like in like a head facing up like sleeping and you can see the profile and it's really funny because depending on the time of day and the way the light hits that mountain it looks like it's in a different mood oh really yeah it's so funny and it has like that sort of like jagged forehead and anyway yeah but most everybody in the area knows about that little mountain but this little girl is like super shy and so you know one points just like kind of like tucked into her brother's cause said squeeze together and just it's funny this is also the park at the railroad tracks this is a pioneer village which isn't far from where we are and it's an old sort of cowboy town where they've brought original buildings back from different areas of arizona to kind of resemble old west the old west s they have a lot of really cool old buildings would like log cabin type this was old bakery brick wall so there's some really fun spots and they're too is anything appealing to you um yeah I really like some the railroad location like the rail and and then just the filled across from there I think you said it was for cross from there were open yeah what happened was too because they're in totally different places eso ah the park is one place and the field is another place okay is also the park it's the skating rink in the park so I often used this little area for like two an individual shots of the kids this is the park as well and while we're working with the family I will do all the different combinations so I'll do each of the children by themselves all three of them together ah photograph you with each of the children because it's really nice for is tohave portrait's just with you I'm a photograph leo with each of the kids each of you with all of the kids I'll do as many combinations as the kids will allow me to but these ages are really good we're not worried about them it's the two four five year olds we worry about so they'll be fairly easy to photograph are they comfortable in front of the camera yeah they kind of are they can't okay good yeah that would make sense this is ah session we did on location at the client's home this is the beach location I don't know if you know this but every summer will do beach location in san diego so if you're ever interested in beach location maybe like yeah maybe for like your next portrait I do a week in san diego yeah and almost my clients will make a little vacation out of it so this is just some of the other things is also the railroad track so I think you know you kind of like that railroad track huh yeah I dok good this is pioneer village that location we talked about earlier this's the mountain area can see bright sun I kind of just have the kids walking towards us and the's air difficult ages so holding hands walking through the desert works perfectly for them this is also the park but you can see my style tends to be a little bit close up just what you're saying nice and warm but if you like more greens and you like the little bit of that railroad track then we should definitely stick with the park location okay well good good and then um as far as like coloring on everybody they light dark haired we're all pretty pill but with dark hair with dark hair so what what kind of colors do you think worked best for your family uh probably warmer colors okay I love brown's cause you can mix browns with like khaki tan cream brown so you want to mix it up a little bit you can do ah pattern on pattern or something like a little sweater it doesn't all have to be identical but it should all coordinate and I definitely prefer to stay away from bright loud colors again kind of dating it and I also sometimes feel like bright loud colors distract from faces so I'm always looking to enhance and bring out the features and faces in the relationship so I like to minimize clothing okay um but you can mix it up a little bit actually there's probably a few more images in here um with different clothing options I'm a lot of people will just be happy doing all black all brown jeans are always a great option if you like khakis you canoe khakis um a little bit of a shrike is ok if it's you know muted enough or if one person has a pattern that's cool but if everybody has a different pattern on that's going to be pretty distracting um this family did all black for their portrait ce um this is also the park with the railroad track is it's fun isn't it that it's yeah it's really fun I'm his family decided to do all brown so it just really depends on what one what you have or two if you want to go shopping um this family did white and jeans I generally to stay away from bright white because I think it can sometimes be the year I will always go to the brightest part of a photograph so I always feel like if the shirts are white we have five people you have a big block of white and your face will be your eye will be drawn away from faces and more towards ah the shirts this family did all black they did different shades of brown the daughters in a lighter shade and here's a great combination of tan brown cream and dark brown and it all works together and this is really nice for the park to so if you don't want everyone to be matching matchy this is an option um yesterday's family did gray and yellow muted yellow which the beautiful so anything that coordinates and works well together um make sure that the clothes are well fitting but not tight okay and not too big ok because sometimes you see kids in clothes that are just oversized for them and it won't look right so you know make sure that the clothes fit appropriately okay um especially like you know sometimes eleven year old boys aware and super baggy pants you know what I'm talking like yeah I know okay quick sidebar from yesterday when we're talking about a lease and anna and gary and photographing my ex husband's family portrait every year this is it so I thought I'd share that with you all a side note and I would normally tell a client that's my daughter there in the front that's anna and that's louise and that's gary and olivia and nick and every year we do their family portrait and it's always a riot because just chaos and it's hysterically fun so anyway I thought is that file this alert I charge them double yeah I'm just I'm kidding but let's see didn't I tell you yesterday that anna is the spitting image of her dad I know this is totally personal side on oprah right totally like I spit out a mini gary is what I did anyway so this family did all black this is another area in the park this is this is fun because we could do this area in the park as well as the railroad track the park offers us a lot more options and uh opportunity and diversity diversity so this is that see this pattern works for this family because dad's the only one in a pattern and the other girls are gold and sweaters to see how this whole outfit coordinates so I have some families that are like super fashion e and love to do that and some families just like black t shirts will work just fine so it just depends on your family for sure so is that helpful yeah yeah they also you get a better idea of what we could for teo and I'm gonna send you home a bunch of information is well awesome and then I also want to show you this the way that we view our portrait sse after you after we take him the way that we will view them is through ah projection so there aren't any proofs to take home I don't do any online viewing because it's really not the best way to see your image is um the best way to see them is sitting here with me I can show you how they could be cropped we're going to color corrected and seeing them on a home in a small computer isn't really the best way to see them so and it's also easier for us to go through them and added them together so we'll go through a slide show together and then as we are working well I kind of compare images and you'll tell me I prefer the left over the right we'll edit them down to a manageable number of images that are your favorites and then we'll figure out what to do with them from there because most of my clients will come in and go oh my gosh she took so many beautiful images I have no idea what to do with them so I really helped hold your hand and walk you through the process with this I mean if that sounds good yeah it's kind of fun I recommend leaving the children home for this um you know if your husband is a decision maker and you know he wants to be a part of the decision great bring him in I have sometimes a lot of dads they don't really care they just say go get whatever you want if that's the case fine if you had him in for pictures what's that you got him in for the picture we got him in for the pictures and a lot of times that's you know that's all we need but you can just see all the different combinations will do this was a family of five and so will do each of the children by themselves we'll get just you know whatever we can get out of so you have three which is going to be just a little bit easier but we add mom and we did the kids individually the kids altogether we throw dad in everybody squeezing together these are some of the out takes always throw in a few out takes because they're some of the best expressions so but this is how you'll view him and you'll see him nice and large on the screen like this if if you want to be able to zoom in and see a close up of a face we can do that if you want to see what it looks like in black and white for example I could do that for you so that's why you can't show you different options while you're sitting here with me in a c p a tone if you want to see original color oh no let's make a copy that's color so I mean there's just a lot of different things we khun d'oh what you can also do is take a picture of where you want the portrait to go I can drop it into the software and drop the image into your rooms you can see we look like oh cool yeah so my job is not to just take the portrait's but really the handhold and walk you through the whole process and put something up on your wall that's going to really mean something to you and you gonna have for years and years and years and so I don't want to go home all confused like I love these portrait's but don't know what to do with them so right it's really process so you know do you have something for me uh well do you have any other recommendations on the clothes that's really tricky like but it is tricky and if you're not sure about it you're more than welcome to like go shopping and if you want to make an appointment to come in and show it to me be happy to look at it or if you have two things in mind when we get together for the session you can always show me and I can see this will work and yeah that'll work but yeah it's sometimes the biggest thing that stresses mom out is like the clothing so if you're not sure about it just let me know but what you're comfortable and you should be comfortable I don't want to feel like you're completely out of character okay and for makeup teo usually recommend that you do your I slightly darker more like a nighttime makeup than in daytime makeup this way your your eyes will really pop in the photographs okay eyes yeah the other thing I like to let you know as please don't over prep the children yeah yeah I know because right I'm mom that your biggest stress will be are my kids going to behave yeah plant and they will and they won't you know they're gonna be silly and they're gonna want to have fun and that's fine whatever they do is fine with me um and where to get expressions out of them like I said you know usually generally talked to them and bring up top because the conversation I may ask him to make silly faces if I can I see kids really uncomfortable in front of the camera often times just ask him to start making funny faces so that it like loosens up their facial muscles and they kind of relax and let me see your mad face we see your silly fees and sometimes moms or behind the lake I don't want that face not that I know what you're doing and like don't worry it's ok so don't over prep them say you know michelle's a quirky fun photographer's gonna go the park and have some pictures taken no big deal you know because the bomb will do this behave make sure you do your nice smile your child doesn't know what they're nice smile is all right you know not that smile that smile no not that smile that smile so and it puts less stress on you too and I think if you over prep the children they get anxious and I'd rather them just be relaxed and you're not worried about it um leo you know if he's quiet might be a little shy I'll take some timeto pull him out but I'll photograph him with the kids first and that will usually loosen him up okay yeah also do portrait of you and leo together good way the last time you had a portrait studio it's been a while yeah so um so it'll be fun why didn't think of this is a really fun experience it could be really stressful I know you know moms are not always comfortable in front of the camera you worry about your kids your hair right is you no but part of what we do is um retouching so if you break out that day you know or your kid's one of your children scratches their faces is really not a big deal removed blemishes and eye bags and reduce wrinkles and you know just freshen up the skin I don't liketo over retouch but I do like to freshen up the skin and you know just make you look a little more relaxed and refreshed and really retouching is up to you because I have some moms who like like less is more and other moms like remove everything so we'll talk about that when you go through this part of the presentation when you come back to see your image is okay um so anything else you have questions about you talked a little bit about where we were going to put an image and kind of like framing it maybe so do you do framing are really yeah you have a whole framing area and what we do is the frames that I carry are generally frames at work with my style of portraiture and in general most of my clients homes tend to be a little bit more traditional so we have a great framing selection and the other thing that's um that I recommend if you have a hard time deciding the day that you come in to see them and you're not sure about where you want to put things will make an appointment I'll come to your home okay yeah I'll hide your walls for you and I'll bring you know uh I'll bring the images on my ipad and we'll walk around and um take a look at it yes yes yes we'll take a look at it and I'll be able to give you suggestions on what we'll work together I have some families that like to do one big large wall portrait and some families that like to do a collage thank you do you like collage of maybe one wall portrait in the middle and then individuals of the children based on your walls and the size and it's hard for most people tio you know two to know how they want to decorate their home with portrait's and where to put them so it's one of the things that I like to walk you through a cz well creo that and I also yeah and I'm missing you home with this which basically covered everything we just talked about and I'm going to go a little bit into pricing as well um but we have um this is the brochure which you can go through and if your husband has any questions about it too he can go through this with you but this just gives you a little history about myself what to expect what my um my experiences why should you go with a professional um what the portrait experience will be like most most of the things I just talked to you about okay um there's some examples of images in here too if you know when you get home your husband says you're doing what I have to get dressed we have to dress alike for who well so anyway this will just give you a great idea of what to expect the pricing list is also in here and also we have an appointment card so I want to make your appointment for you we can just put it down on the card and you can just take that home with you so just so you have an idea and I'm going to talk about pricing in terms of like one in two dollars just so you know people aren't freaking out at home you have a question no let's say she's come back to you multiple years in a row and she's essentially covered the walls in her house I know that you recommend albums what do you recommend if they say I'd really love this is my next wall port drip what do you recommend they do with e older canvases or older waller it could move it to another area of the house you know and I would go to the house and look at that you know um but yeah it's depends most people aren't going to do a big wall portrait every couple of every year it might be in everyth three to four year thing where they do a big wall portrait because the children haven't changed that much from year to year so you're here might be an album and smaller prints and gifts or the same client might come back every two years and do an album and then you know four years they'll do another wall portrait but I mean I have families that there walls are covered like hallways and mantles and uh bedrooms kid's bedroom it's crazy so but yeah um and if she was a returning client this would be a lot shorter right because she would already know what to expect now would be like ok what do we want to do this time you know where we go and how the kids what are they up to oh my gosh I can't believe they're that big already you know oh my god she's going into high school like she was like that too like last week so we have a whole conversation a different conversation about where the kids right now you know it's great to see you what's going on that whole kind of thing so um and then ok so just so you know I'm going to talk about pricing and like dollars just because it makes it easier and people at home are gonna be going what anyway so this is our whole pricing menu and we do everything I'm not ala carte basis and makes it really easy for you because I've never had two clients order the same thing so it's really nice when you come in all you have to do today is the side is this the style of photography like do I want to work with michelle and then you make all your purchasing decisions after so we start with wall portrait ce are wall portrait started a dollar and they go up from there based on if you're going to do a traditional wall portrait on traditional photographic paper we're going to do a canvass we offer gallery wraps which I would normally have around the studio and I'd be showing you right now different gallery wraps if you purchase ah wall portrait we have a gift set that people really like it's five eight by tens five images any five of your favorites we do it neither one eight by ten or two five by sevens if you purchase it alone it's five dollars if you buy a wall portrait it drops to two fifty okay so you could get a sample yes it's perfect for grand parents and there's an incentive than to get that if you purchase an album we also offer that for the gifts as well okay so yeah so it's really easy and then we'll all measure the wallet you know I'm not sure about the sizing we also have our albums we do the ten by ten eight by eight so if you want to put your favorite on the wall then we have an album for the rest of them which is really nice and if he purchased two albums third one is a gift with purchase okay and this really is a good idea and I have a lot of parents who like it because they'll give grand parents those albums but some day those album is going to come back to you and each of your children will have one oh yeah e e good stuff huh yeah I um so that's all in here is well on the session fee is three dollars is this funny people like one dollars fifty but I didn't want to get into like you know what I'm talking about so anyway um but yeah I just expect to have fun it's a really fun experience you know I'm silly and I'm fun with the kids and you know work on a tripod so you know it's just it's easy for the kids to communicate with me and whatever happens happens if they're cranky that morning don't stress you know if you have a teenage girl who's like moody because she's a teenage girl and her makeup didn't come out right and she just giving you a hard time just like her hair don't worry about it do not a fix that yeah and do not fight with your children before the session you know his mom's well especially when they started stressed out when you make up that way that's not how you make up is that how you doing in here story about it seriously don't stress because I want you to enjoy this experience as much as your kids dio so let's set a date um monday through thursday of a better days because the park is uh the train is not running through the park and there is not what usually birthday parties going on in there and we'll set a date will take your deposit for your session fee today the session fee is just for the session fee and for the time we spend here and after and your preview session and for anytime I come and spend at your home that covers all of that and then anything after that is additional we also have a portrait agreement in here which basically let you know what to expect and gone through all the things we've talked about in here and then it also gives me the rights to use your images for slideshow presentations or you know whatever you know I'm writing a book I can use your image is for writing a book that type of thing um and so and then you can read this over and bring it back to me okay okay and then so how do you want to do your session fee today um we'll go ahead and just put it on our card awesome sounds good and so thursday the twenty third is perfect awesome brakes and your hellions available that they yes they don't over prep him either okay maybe give him a glass of wine before you come out if he's nervous but but that's it I mean that's how an average consultation would go so we have about ten minutes till we have to wrap up how did that feel for you and you're a photographer's well right yeah you go that in depth with no you're good yeah because I want to know as much about you as I can and I usually will kind of ask more questions and let you do more of the talking just so that because everyone wants to tell their story write so and that's the most important thing is really just getting to know your client you know if you're not doing a pre consultation you're missing out on so so much you know lots of photographers who just book sessions over the phone never meet with the client ahead of time I mean you just I don't know for me asking for trouble it's so much nicer when you know you're walking into and you have things to talk about and you know if you were a regular client we could probably do this over the phone have this this was your fourth session with me like michelle I don't need to come in you know my kids we want to go to san diego this year we're gonna wear blue jeans and blue shirts and blah blah blah different story but any time you have a brand new client has never been two before you have to have this time and it's so important one I set up every expectation for you you know that you're not going to get proofs you know that you're going to see your image is with me that we're gonna go through them together you also feel comfortable in my mind I'm thinking you feel comfortable that if you can't make a decision I'm gonna help you with that if you don't know where you're gonna put them I will come to your home it's really important you know if you can get into a client's home that's bueno one you can see how it's decorated where their home is how big the portrait needs to be nothing is worse than having a giant size will always like in eleven by fourteen on it because the most people think oh you know that eleven by fourteen giant sized portrait it's a postage stamp on a big wall right I mean for the most part are making thirty by forties thirty by forty I think we should just call it like petite small medium large action how big is your wallets a large wall well your new large portrait right instead of giving of size measurements so I mean there's a lot of different things but the whole like if you purchase two albums you'll get a third one as a gift that's course mrs coming right way grand parents always want pictures and then I throw into the end of that and you have three children so someday those albums going come back to you and your children will have one for each of them it's good right that's good I love perfect yeah I know I do love doing that um do you guys have any questions about that consultation and what we just went through and we need a microphone yep not to get you off on a tangent but I could see at this point now have you already addressed the digital files she hasn't asked no yeah and let let's talk about that real quick because my policy on this has changed multiple times and like what people at home I know is a humongous issue and we could go we could have a whole day on this um originally I was I would not sell digital file because it's not my work it's just a medium for me it's not my work I'm in the business of selling portrait ce of actual photographs I struggled with it and I know that there is a consumer demand for a lot of reasons most of that consumer demand I have figured out is for social media purposes right most people are not taking their files and go and have them printed right and then if they are are they color the off color how do they look like going a walmart they go into a professional lab like where they it's just it's very tricky situation I think you have to really decide what it is you want to sell so what I did was because you know there is obviously um consumer pressure to sell to sell digital files and I thought well if I'm gonna sell him I'm going to get paid pretty well for him right so we had we set them higher than the print price because you have to write so probably the biggest thing and if you're head home and you do this I hope I can talk you out of this today is doing a session for a small amount of money and then just giving all the files because not only really not serving the client but you're really killing an industry right so a lot of people just clicked right out right then and there click it's kidding so I price the digital files high enough so if you say do you often yes we offer them because we never want to say no right so and I'll give you actual pricing on this we did one digital image was two ninety five and then we had groupings three five ten or the full collection could say like well you know we just want to have our favorites okay well five digital images they're gonna be eleven seventy five all right I'll be happy with that I'm still not comfortable with it still doesn't sit right with me but if you really have to have it the full collection up to thirty images was thirty five hundred dollars that's a bolo to money right that's fine here's the thing and I have changed my mind on this this week so it's brand new information and I'll tell you why I had a client come to pick up a book that she was she was in the book and she came to pick up the copy I had for her and I signed it and two years ago she bought her digital files she just did christmas cards and two years ago she party a great client I photographed this family like five years and she's going out this year yeah we're just going to the digital files and she could afford it was no big deal and she came to me and she said you know I have that disk sitting on my desk still in the same place I have not done anything with it I should've just had you done the pictures and right then and there I was like no more that is not what I want my client to say I'm done I'm in the business of selling portrait so what I've figured out what we're going to do is um I want to start doing sessions that absolutely include album I want all those images printed I want something for people to touch to be tactile to flip through to sit on the couch with to someday have and hold on to so this week and when I get home I'm working on all this new stuff for myself is that all of my sessions will include an album and I'm on the fence about doing maybe three to five uh facebook or social media size images for sharing with family and friends or just tagging him through my own facebook page that kind of thing but the medium doesn't change what I sell I would've never just sold a negative in a package and gave it to a client I would have never ever done it ever so why am I just selling my medium and not my craft and my art and what I believe in because the true the matter is I believe in photographs I believe in twenty years people are going to be missing thousands of images lost on a hard drive or a cloud or some other device it's going to come up in the next however many years and we're going to be an image list society sitting around with no albums to look through so I don't want that I'm not comfortable with that and every time I did one of those sales I wasn't comfortable something in my gut went ok and now like you know what I've got to follow my gut and as soon as that kind she's a really good clients was all michelle thank you for putting us in the book and she was you know I bought those files that year and I haven't done anything with them the dvd is still sitting on my desk she hasn't even backed them up the dog could ate the dvd by now whatever I'm just saying so you have to sell what you feel and believe in your heart you have to be comfortable with it you have to believe it I really don't feel comfortable selling a thought files sort of a thought something that could be easily lost you know it's not tangible I can't touch it I can't flip through it I can't look at it you could look at ipad but who knows what's going to be on twenty years you know tactile albums and photographs will always they're gonna become rare so anyway that's my new tangent I bet we have a lot of questions now well we have time for maybe just one question so if I may you did say it's no holds bar yeah with you and so I am going to ask a question that's coming up over and over in the chat rooms right now and it's if you can reveal some of your own price sing because pricing is a big part of the business and it would be very useful to know to help people gauge you know whats low ball rolling your other professional photographers in the area what's too much and even digital files yeah it's it's a loaded question though I have to say where my looking there we go um because I'm talking to such a huge audience and markets very greatly and also some of the advice I'm giving you about what clientele do you want prices are going to very greatly from market to market will tell you in my market my session fee is two hundred ninety five dollars that includes this time we spent together my wall portrait start at two ninety five which is an eleven by fourteen and they go up to twenty five hundred for a larger size canvas the album start at six ninety five and go up to a thousand dollars and they're for ah like small twenty page albums or not big giant albums so it depends on what your market khun bear what your high end area is is going to be very different than what my high and area is so what I really hate to see from this industry is really people shooting burn for a low amount of money hundred hundred twenty five three hundred you know one if you're doing all the work you're probably not making any money because shooting them burning editing and you know doing all they have to do probably a few hours involved at least and so when you look at time invested versus money make it like it sounds really good I'll give you fifty cent dvd for three hundred dollars well what really how much are you making for your time and then what is really happening to an industry that because of the ease of digital is almost been devalued because the medium is so easy and it's so transferrable that it's it's becoming lost the print the album so I mean yeah no holds barred I'll tell you whatever you want to tell you like serious that I sell a full collection of images thirty images like thirty five hundred dollars and people like well when you just be happy with that if I was driven monetarily yeah I'd be fine with that but not driven monetarily I'm driven relationship I'm driven sentimentally my motivation comes from tangible tactile things that people can hold onto so yeah I mean everyone has their own motivation if you know yeah I want to make a good living don't get me wrong but it's not my soul it will kill me someday to know what their images that that were never printed uh it's like I don't know it anyway does that help almost went off on a crazy tangents really cool helps immensely and we really appreciate you being honest I just letting us know where we were in the industry thank you we value the work value the work it's so valuable we leave behind a piece of history we can't devalue that and we've devalued it because so it's so cheap to make a dvd it's so cheap to put on a jump drive it so but it's not our history is not cheap and if you're good at what you do when you care about people and you have a passion for this and you have to charge accordingly and don't give it away because giving away only hurts the people down the street and there's a market for everyone there's a client for everyone you know we're not in competition with each other we should be rising and lifting this industry up to the standard that it once was and photography should be valued for what it is it's a piece of history