Lessons

Lesson Info

Sales Consultation

Danielle Larkham. But what we're gonna call her Scott. So Danielle is gonna be Scott, the husband of Katie, Because we're gonna do a sales consultation, and I'm going to show the images that we shot Sat two days ago, three days ago Wednesday were showed the images that we shot on Wednesday to her, and and she has had a chance to see them on the broadcast. But we'll start with this. A little slide show that joy just put together. And I haven't seen yet on an emotive slideshow that she put together. I'm going to start with that, excited to see it, um, and show that Thio, Katie and scott slash Danielle and then we're gonna go right into a sample client sales consultation. Initially, we're talking. We're thinking we could make it kind of a hole full on sale session, but we have so much to cover, we're going to treat it as kind of a sampling of this is what we would do here and these air these parts. And when you're being asked this, what do you respond and how do you treat that situation? ...

Especially if you have sort of situations where people are commenting on things because they just don't have a lot of education about what we're talking about. So that's what we're gonna do in just a minute before we get to that and then coming up after that, we have the work life balance thing that, ironically were squeezing in, and we may actually be going late. Ie working late to be able to talk about work life balance. So, um, let us start with any sort of Q and A. We have about 500 questions to ask you 500 questions. We'll start with Savchenko. NAS Question from Twitter has been so sweet, So he was here before It was fantastic. Accent, Jasmine stars Fashion target So active and cool. Yeah, so he and this might be the life balance, but I think he means more like work related. Can you share some of your tips or insights for effective time management? And then a question from Brandon? How many photo shoots do you average A week or a month? Can you tie those things together? OK, so there I can answer both these questions, but I think they're irrespective of each other. But somebody look up if irrespective is a word. Um, two things. One I've tried to do no more than three sessions a week, three portrait sessions a week. That being said, if I do an on location, I'm doing destination. Fortunes were traveling somewhere and only there for a long weekend or a week I'm going to do probably to a day just because I'm trying to take advantage of that. But on a on a weekly everyday basis, I try not to have more than three sessions a week, and the reason is because I think they're uncredible amount of energy output in exchange on. I want to stay fresh and really enjoy it and put a lot of effort into really maximizing every experience I have versus try to power a lot of them in. So that's how many sections I do. Time management tips and tools. I have a bunch of them when speaking to some later, but just right off the bat, a couple applications that you may want to check out. Um, time management is basically the idea of figuring out the difference between what you really find important and you value and how you're actually spending your time. And if you can kind of make the distinction between what this is and what that is, and where's the gap like, where am I losing myself in the middle there in terms of managing my time? Because everybody know is Slammin Lee busy and we all have a lot on our plate and we have a lot of input. There's just so many sources coming in all the time and there's a 1,000,000 ways to get distracted. Um, not here. Of course, there's nothing distractible happening here watching lights being infection stuff. But there's just so many ways that things and items and websites and opportunities are competing for our attention. And then you add in humans that we actually care about, that we want to give our attention to. I think it's it's managing the gap between the two, so we talked a little bit more about that later. But some applications that absolutely I find come in handy are things like, um, how am I spending my time? I want to truly know that I recommend applications like rescue time is a fun one where you can put it on your laptop and just kind of log in and set up. And I'll tell you, where did you do this week? What percentage your time did you spend on the Internet or times? But did you spend in photo shop? What time did you spend answering email on? And you can set it up to be offline as well, so you can come back in and say, OK, since I was gone last. This is where I was spending my time. If you really want to get around a picture of what you were doing, there's other applications out there kind of quirky, fun things that I will assume that you may know what to do and how to spend your time, But you really are terrible at controlling yourself. There's actually an application called self Control. It's a Mac application that basically will, for a predetermined amount of time, shut off your Internet links. Shut off your mail server. It won't let you get distracted. I mean, these air kind of not bad ideas mean similar to like, if you were trying to force herself to work out or force yourself to lose weight, sometimes you need to bring in like the heavy artillery. Okay, I will admit, You know, I am a time waster. I've been a time waster for X amount of time, and I need help. So those were great applications. Wanted to start with it. Sounds good. Cool. Um, I've seen this question come up quite a bit on since we're going into the sale session section. How much post processing do you dio of the images? Um, before you put them in your sideshow for the clients to see and you into them up versus when you're going to the final product creation, right? So I process all my images before the client sees them. So everyone the images have been processed. That being said, some of them are just weeks or kind of, you know, quick color corrections and updates and things like that. But for the most part, I've already made the decision. If I want them in color or black and white already sort of toning options I want to include. And then when we sit down and placed the order, I may say something like, you know, on that on this shoot, somehow, in the middle of it, little Bobby got a scratch his face. I retouched one of them so you could see what it'll look like at anything that you order. Just know that I'll go in and make that little retouch for you. I won't do that on every single image when I'm talking, sitting down and talking about just proofs right on. And it's the same thing that they buy the rights to reproduce, but they aren't buying prints. That is not a service that I will just automatically add in because they're buying all the images I finished to show to them on def. They ask for something like that's a little more extensive If they want head swaps and things, all that could be added for an additional fee. Right. Um, so the, uh, the other part of questions? No, that was it, Was it? Yeah. Wow. Did not expect. Okay. Question from Sarah. I think yesterday or the day before there seems to be a big push for photographers to specialize, specialize, specialize to find a niche narrow our focus, etcetera. You seem to do it all. What do you think about, uh, niches for the photography business? Okay, I guess what the question is, do it all I don't think I do it all. I have never done aerial photography. I've never done any underwater photography. So, like the air and the ocean or out, I'm pretty much a land photographer. Um, and in terms of land photography, I would narrow that down. I don't photographed landscapes. There's a few landscapes that photograph that I love that had meaning to me that we're really impactful to me. But I'm not the person that's gonna go out in the field and try but wait for the right light to hit to get this incredible landscape. So I don't do that. If you wanna bring it down than even further. I don't really shoot products anymore. I have done that the past, but not anymore. Because I'm driven by interaction and exchange and Andi, I find that to be, you know, kind of soul sucking Nikki. I find it to be a little bit just dry for me and that in terms of how much enjoyment I'm getting out of that on DSO if you narrow it down to the people photography. I have have photographed weddings forever, but I'm not. I'm photographing less and less now on by moving Mawr into just photographing fortunes and just photographing families and Children and really making that my specialty. So even though I probably would have photographed it all in that respect, the commercial work I do is about people. And I did. He was lucky enough to do this beautiful shoot for the U. N C. Cancer Care Hospital in Chapel Hill with UNC hospitals, and we photographed 60 doctors and nurses and patients along with my associate, Rachel Garrison. We photographed doctors and nurses and patients and survivors and family members of survivors and was a really emotional experience because we heard everybody story in their experience. Um, and it was their building, this brand new hospital. And when they come to me, this would have been under the venue of commercial work, and it would've been charged accordingly. And, um, but for me, unlike its people, So to me, I don't have that distinction of like, Well, this is commercial, like these air people, and I'm a people photographer in that respect. In projects like that you can take on. We were talking earlier, Joy and I were talking about community involvement. When you have the opportunity to do things like this. I mean, we ended up putting the whole thing together and then cut the bid in half because we felt that that was such an impactful project and we wanted to be a part of it. And so it wasn't a high dollar generator in terms of what it could have been, but it was so rewarding. Units, that other idea of what you know, where your revenue coming for and your emotional revenue coming in. Um, so you know, an amazing experience. So in terms of specialising, I think there is a specialty there. I do think it's important to get very, very good at what you're doing, as opposed to try to be moderately good at a bunch of stuff. Um, would I advocate different websites for that kind of different work Is that the question is, Well, I actually do have an opinion about that, because I, um when I first started out, I thought it was very important to have a wedding website and a portrait website because I didn't want anyone to think I was deluding my wedding. What expertise? By being a portrait photographer. I didn't want them to think the other way around that I wasn't a really good portrait, Duggar, because I photographs weddings. And what I came to realize in short order was that I was missing out on valuable referrals because someone would show their friend my wedding work and say, Isn't that fabulous? Like, Yeah, cash. I wish I, you know, she photographed Children. My nieces just adorable. And then it was done that where the mouth was done, Um, and then the flip it, you know, like God, great photographs, your Children, my nieces getting married. Um, do you think she has a good wedding photographer? You know, that kind of thing would happen. So I in that respect, I made sure I moved it altogether. Websites welcome. OK, I'm alright. Just go back over. We'll do a little, do a little Segway, and then I'll turn this back over to you. Alright? So first of all, I want to show everyone, so thank you will be writing this. Yeah, right. Scoot on. Over. Ish ish. So we had a lot of requests for this. We had Sarah upstairs working on this, and I just want to show everyone online on the on the page if you purchase the downloads, scroll down. Concessions reliving up part way have not uploaded the video yet. Nico is working on it right now. But if you purchased, there was a lot of requests for a pdf of that baby right there that that piece of art Excellent. Excellent. And then it actually said was really nicely. Something your daughter sent you. Yes. So, um, when I was doing the whole business thing, my Sophie was in the chat room and watching it, and she decided to get and make her own little board with notes. And, um, some things is the This is the notes that she made. I'm gonna read it under the moonlight Angels will come seeing their halos will make your eyes numb. They will make you safe and let you run wild until you have your own angel. Your child poem by Sophie. I'm such a proud mama. Like my little artist writer. Baby, I love you. And then I tell them I got this e back to Steve. I'm like, can you confirm that she was actually a maker of the art? And was she inspired by all their sources? Because we're gonna put it online and make sure credit is appropriate is like, Oh, no, no, no. She is the maker. So I'm proud of you, Sophie. She said she's a songwriter. She sits and writes songs like all day long, and they're very like, long and emotional with all these kind of experiences. And I'm like, but it's beautiful. Good job, baby. All right, we're doing sales frittering sales. Okay, so, um, do we have the animal to slide show? Okay. It's right behind that. It's right behind the poem. 00 I don't want to close it out. I'm just gonna move it. This okay? So wonderful. Okay, behind it is a personal. Okay, Um, this is, um which version of the an emotive sideshow did you use to remember the ritual? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so, um, I have just transitioned over recently to moving using animal slide shows, and, um, I the slide show that I love their new elegance line. I really enjoy because I prefer my such is to be incredibly simple. I like them to be just the image as it moves and then softly into the next image that I want the impact to be about the image. And a moto has aton of templates out there. And I believe this one is one of the original templates, which is a little more upbeat, a lot more going on. So this probably wouldn't be exactly what I would build if I were making a sideshow. But joy, um, woman extraordinaire was like, Girl, you doing a 1,000, things, I'll jump in and throw this down for you, so thank you very much. Okay. Make sure the sound is on. Um, and this would be why would be sending a slide show. So Katie, come say hi real quick. Guys, have you come in and will officially meet your second? You're not. And you gotta be in that camera right there. There you go. Okay. You just have a seat. I was gonna do this thing where I dramatically walked out and brought them into my studio. And then I realized that's just silly. Let's just get going. Eso Katie braises mommy from the shoot. And Danielle is actually Jax's mommy from our shoot. But I have requested that she put the hat on because she is playing Scott. What's up? Who could not make it here. She's a good friend and I told her I over drinks, but she's pregnant, so I e tasty. Congratulations. Eso They're gonna be the husband and wife who came in. They did not bring their Children because, um, one of the things I recommend is that you saw them because we saw no. One of things I recommend is that I want the sale session to be really focused on the imagery and their emotion and their connection to the Children. And ironically, when the Children are there, it breaks the connection. I know that sounds bizarre, but I want them Teoh remember their Children more fondly then, as opposed to literally sitting there while a child screaming, saying stat. Anyway, I love that image. It's just there's a There's a miss there, and I want them to be all about the imagery. So I strongly suggested and ask if you could just come by your own, however, that you may be, you know, however, that may be, and, you know, I'm fortunate that I have a situation that worst case scenario. I can ask my production assistant or someone to help out if we need just emergency situation to help out with the Children. So I'm gonna put together the slideshow from the other day, and this is, ah, version of what they would get. Okay, so just finished the shoot. I waved to them. I said that was wonderful. You guys did a great job. Um, thank you so much. In about three weeks, I'm gonna be sending you a slide show with just an overview. The images let you check that out for a couple days. Feel free to share it with friends and family, have you want? And in that time, I'd love for you to come in like, pretty much right after you get it. And one of the things that I'm talking about efficient business, and I cannot even believe we spent hours on that business board and didn't get farther because there's so much more to go. But one of the things I would say in terms of advocating for cleaner, more efficient business processes is to consider cutting down how many calls you're making to your client calls especially a rough. And when we set things up, but we have a session in place. Let's go ahead and think about lining up the sale session to just to make sure that's happening, that it's on the books, that again, the expectation is set that we're gonna do that right away. And we know that when they get the slide show right away, they're coming in. They're not gonna live with a slideshow for a while and lose some of the impact of the photographs. Okay, so three weeks of fast forwarded were all dry now and warm pants and, um, the, uh you get the slide should get I can hear it from here. I think from the TV. Think you're better online sticks? Sometimes. Sometimes. Okay. It seems that I got it right. Way, Way. Yeah. Um Oh, I Okay, so a couple things one, we're so the shot, the slide show, the transitions and such. I normally want, like, just to be very soft, like from one image to the the other on. And there's nothing wrong with all those transitions and they're very cool. It and a lot of talk was used to great effect. I would always refer that it's that it's about the imagery. It's a soft coming up with the imagery and the next image comes up very softly. I know that's not as much going on, but I feel like that lets the impact beyond the photography eso. Um, but I really appreciate you putting this together. Thank you. I know I didn't tell you. I didn't tell you. There's no There's no time for any sort of preference to be stated that pace this is going. I know you know why? Because you're wonderful. You are. The nice thing is, a tomato has a bunch of slide shows like that. And you can kind of pick and choose whatever you want. In that respect, would you use music? And one second? Two seconds. Three seconds. I prefer three seconds per image. I use music, and I like it to be slowly transitioning very quietly from one image. The other The transition to be quiet, music could be last. Um, yeah, because I want to be able to see the faces and stuff. And I also feel like they're an emoto has a high rez upload to which we didn't have time for. That was a high rez. Okay, yeah, maybe it's a different function thing, but because I find that with the low rez. Um, the lower has won. The faces are a little fuzzier and softer and stuff. And I felt like sometimes it could be really sharpened, bold and coming up. But maybe that was the effect of all the transitions. And I'm not used to that. Okay, the point is, we just showed a slide show, and it's we got to see the images. Wanted a time, and we looked at it together. And, you know, you're just like you already looked at a couple times and, you know, you're an eye doctor. And so you know these things optometrist or ophthalmologist? Optometry. Ok, so you're not You're not Tom address, and you know what? You see Glasses? Yeah. Okay. Eso we just did that. We look, this light show we talked about were just kind of sharing the experience of how that whole shoot went. Um, and now we're gonna basically just talk a little bit more about some of things we may have discussed in advance about things that you like it want to see. Oftentimes, the client may come in with some ideas, are ready. Just having seen the slide show. Um, and I don't ever wanna print that or assume what's happening next to immediately give my ideas. I can. I want to start out to see what they have to say. So we're gonna now transition this into, like, an actual experience. Hey, quick question. When you're when you bring them in, do you show them the slide show again before you get started, or sometimes depending on the time and how much we have or how much I feel like they've seen it because of definitely clients that cell said. You know, um uh, they got it that you're coming in the next day. They've seen it like twice. So I'm like, Let's you know, let's go there again other times or like, um, I've only watched it 980 times. I'm like, Okay, let's just Let's just start And the number that use of number of images in the slam. It never images in a show, all the images that I turn around to the client to show them which again is usually around that 60 ish range. Okay, so Hi, guys. How are you? You were the fewest. A couple. You are so in love. I could down. So you got a chance to see this light show. I love it. I love it. Yeah. Yesterday when I was watching images that you were reviewing, I just doing denying the whole time. And I love it, Just like a lot of parents and mothers. I just love to be in the picture, too, because so often the mom has taken, so it's so wonderful to have a family photo together. That looks good. Everyone got really great client. Yeah, and I adore the pictures of the Children in the motion that you caught, so Yeah, fine for me to We're gonna We're gonna sell, like, millions of dollars. Good. Good. Well, what I would love to do because I know that you had a chance. Look for them. And you just love so many of them. Did you have any ideas in mind about anything that just might have come to mind? Or do you want to just kind of start? Well, you mean like what I want to do in my home with Oh, yes. I was thinking of a couple of things in each kid's room. I would love to do either, um, a grouping for I don't know if you do storyboards One of the storyboard with the answer is yes. To whatever she asked. I don't know if you dio Yeah, so it's a go. Yeah, yeah, we'll get into the room. But I think it would be fun in tohave Leah specific one's in her room, but a couple with Tyson Tyson? Yeah. And then then Tyson Ones with a couple with Leah. So that was one thing that I'd love to dio okay. And then really make family. Yeah, we talked about it. Yeah, really good. I really do. Would love a big family print because we don't have that. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, based on your home, which is your home that I was in, right? Her mother lost based in your home, you could see actually some beautiful spots for something like, I don't know if he had any preference for, like, a frame piece or canvas. Of course, you want to have it be something that you can really see every time we're, you know, photographing a family we wanna be able to see everybody's face were really clearly and big. And the more people you have, an image obviously the harder is to see everybody if it's a little too small. So well, I really love campus. Good. I like that. I was gonna say, What do you recommend? You were in the house? Do you have a campus? Would look stunning in your home. And because you have nothing to that's really lovely about canvas if you like it, it's got a very our artistic feel to it on. And it's also it's a very forgiving print of a print. So if we had something where you know, Tyson was going crazy and we're jumping and this and that and everyone everybody is like a nice clear capture. But we're not exactly tack sharp because we were in the moment. We were, you know, photographing what we had with what we had it. You know that campuses air lovely for that because they are soft. There's a lot of the weight campuses air produces. You have a lot more ink that just kind of spreads out and gives you a kind of a softer feel, which could be really welcoming and lovely. So I think that would be a great option. I think Teoh id like a big canvas, but I don't know how big is too big. You know, when you walk into someone's home, I have a big wall that the stairs that you saw a big wall by the stairs. So I was thinking about that. But what do you have a rough idea of how much space you have in that area? Like, just rough. You don't have to know the exact measurements. Yeah, just based on our studio here, Like the size of that back ground. Yeah, well, you know, a couple things just from a design perspective. It's lovely to think about having at least a six inch break from the edge of the wall, if not a 12 inch break, just to give you space. And you've got to think about things that were light switches are electrical outlets, and, you know, make sure we're not kind of forgetting about that. Um, but if you can measure to a specific space that you know, you want to fill and forget trying to meet any sort of specifications about it must be a 26 by 40 or 35 40 year, like come up, you know, Blue sky. What? What size Do you think this image would fit that space really spectacularly? And maybe that is something that we're talking about. A 38 by 64 a half, and that's like the custom because we can absolutely do custom everything. And I'm a big believer and that we want the image to be bet the image itself to be reflected in the way it's crops. So any sort of when you're looking at the image and you're like, OK, I want to fill in eight by 12 space. But the image isn't best conveyed, isn't at 12. What can we do to fit the image first and then make it work in the space you have? So let's first be true to the integrity of image. Make sure that looks really great. Some mistakes that you're saying like if you had a horizontal and making it into a square wouldn't hold the integrity of the image you were. So if you told me that the best space you had was like an 80 by 80 box. But the way this image looks best is as a 38 by 64 I would say, well, it scale it up to be 80 at the max and then but in ratio bring the other side up. Let's not squared off to fit the design of your home and mess up. Beautiful image. That's composed position. Yeah. Yeah. So let's start there. But know that we have a lot of flexibility. As long as we're being true to have the image looks, I think I'd also be open for the family picture to be Maybe not just the one picture, but like the same ideo. I like to have that story telling, you know, three together or four in a quiet or something. That kind of shows the different emotions and that took place in that one time. Yes. So I'd be open to that too. Okay. And while we're here, I don't have this right here. We don't have to completely stay in character while we're here. Um, I am taking notes, and I take hand written notes in a notebook like a spiral notebook because and at one point I was doing this online. I use pro select for my sales, and we're gonna show that in a minute and you have an option a purse elect to take the order while you're doing the sale session. I actually find that that it puts way too much attention, too much attention on the order process. And I don't want to put the attention that order process. I want the attention to be on the experience of discussing how much we love these images and how great they're gonna go in your home. Okay, So I'm gonna take just notes as I'm going. And if I'm really smart, I might take notes with that pen that records everything I dio And then I can have a pdf of it later. Because when I lose my notebook in three weeks and say are why do I have 46 notebooks that all look the same? And I don't know what the notes are from that session. I'll have it recorded somewhere. Really? You know, if I were really smart Oh, I didn't really know anyone. I'm not. That is my next I want to get because I find that that is not a difficult thing to do in the in the massive things. You take all these great notes and then you can't find your new book. Do you have any questions. You're doing this. Oh, Other thing nights. Your friends Scuse me. Your friends in the chat room. Your BFF, they're saying forget, forget, get. Did you have any questions? Anybody here? We're gonna move on. She already has the price list. When she booked the session, she received the price list. So she has it. If she needs a refresher when we walk in, I'll hand her this little card with an overview. The pricing. And it's not unusual while we start getting into it to just kind of. But I'm not gonna be like here. And that was teaching. You want that to You know, I don't want it to feel like that. So I'm not hiding prices. But it's not about we're not trying to get again in the logistics and the mental space of dollars and senses. It's just the session fee. Okay? And this is really, really important. I want to really emphasize this because I had the question come up a lot. Like, do you feel weird when someone says I'm paying how much for nothing, or like your session fee includes what, like shouldn't there be more to that And sometimes just saying session fee includes the time are, you know, expertise and artists is artistic, you know, experience or whatever it is of the photographer Sometimes saying that alone people don't necessarily, especially if you're starting out, are getting up to speed. You don't actually feel like you have, um, the gravitas to pull it off. You know, you kind of feel like it involves the expertise of the artists, which is I just became a time for a year ago. Oh, my God. Just really good. You know, like sometimes that insecurity can bubble up and you don't feel comfortable stating that. And what I would say is your session fee, what that really is encompassing is everything that it took for you to get to where you are. And I'm not just talking about that massive whiteboard, the famous spite board. I'm not just talking about all of that stuff that goes on with your business. I'm talking about every ounce of training and experience and practice. The time you spent right here sitting here in this workshop for 24 hours includes all of that. My friend Scott, born with photo focus of you guys are familiar with photo focus dot com and other great resources for photographers. He's got a podcast as well, he said. You know, when people ask him what his day rate is, and he and they tells them because everyone's going to get the response of, like, what? You know. And he said, Well, you're not paying for me for the day You're paying for my last 30 years experience to get me to the point of what I'm gonna deliver on that day That sounds like Scott born Scott would have a way of saying Yeah, but that's no less true for whether or not you've been spending a year doing this or studying for four years or studying for 15 years, it's No, that's true. I don't know if you're gonna share it now, but at some point I would like to hear what that conversation looks like. That first initial phone call to Tamerlan Key Studios. We haven't heard that yet. Okay, okay. Whoever that is, I mean, enquiring the tent during that phone. Okay? I'm sort of completely shocked that we still have so much to cover and haven't covered. Given how much time we've spent. Yes, Gregor, you white boarding me. Yeah. Put an image. Okay. A whole bunch of images, Apparently. That's gonna be distracting. That's good. So Oh, no, no match for gay. Um, that's inauthentic. Smiled, Scott, it is so good. Yeah, you know the difference. I dio dio. Okay, Life I get to tell him. Seems very happy about my family. Fabulous. OK, so, actually, Craig just set us up perfectly is about to switch this application. Eso If this were a little more true life, I would be here. And I would be asking you guys to turn and I make a big point of saying I want, you know, in this way to have our backs. So you guys got it today, if you can see. Okay. But, um, I make a big boy a point of saying when people come in, I want them to be set up for, like, let's get ready. Okay. It's not like All right, sit down. Let's go. It's like, Can I get you something to drink? Um, are you hungry? You want muffin? Starbucks is across the street. Starbucks is across the street from us, and it's so dangerous. Enough time was spent at Starbucks, but you know, kind of whatever. If we can offer you water or anything else, we have very kind of cushy chairs. They're soft, like a macro suede chairs where they're just They're comfortable when you sit in and you just kind of get ready, we have a little bit We said we kind of tilt chair. So it's theater surround on. We're gonna kind of settle in a little bit to do this. And I think there's a little touch has become really important when we're saying, Let's give this some weight Let's take some time to really look through these images and respectfully view them and not feel like Okay, sit, go boom. So your studio, do you have a big TV like this that you show it on and you have a Sony Bravia? Okay, and it's what you would say. It's probably worth the investment on me like that. If you had a studio space rather than like pulling out your 13 inch MacBook and being like, look at the photos, aren't they great there? Okay, so a few things on that there's a couple things. There's a couple things to be said about how you're showing your images when I was making the decision early on, I looked at projector cysts systems not in early on. This was like four years ago. I looked at the projector systems. I looked at television systems. I looked at cinema displays. I looked at all the ways. You know, just pop it up your Mac book pro and looking at it together. I looked at all the ways to do that. And for me, I wanted to go with something that was most calibrated with my monitor, that that the image I showed was exactly all the effort I put into it from an exposure perspective, from a color management perspective from a sharpness level of detail. We said early on, when we're showing the images from the shoot, I was cringing a bit because I'm like, I don't know how you're viewing these on your monitors because it's now going through free monitors or whatever by the time you're seeing it. And so you could be sitting at home like I don't know this Tamerlan. You think she's all about her exposure stocks, you know, And I'm like, I mean things like that you don't know necessarily even if you're talking about, like, the screens to wide at the screens to smaller and things were getting cropped inadvertently that you didn't show in the original image. I don't know how you're viewing it at home, but in my studio, I can control that. And I want to control that. So at the time, the reason that I got the Sony Bravia was because the color picture with the picture of the color and the quality of the color was amazing and it was true to form. It was very bright and very vivid, and I thought really showed off by imagery. Well, uh, just come in, okay? You're not gonna cut the camera? That that was a durable. He just crawled it. Yeah, So that was my choice just to follow up on that because I just want to finish it now. I have seen some predictor systems that are fabulous that are very strong and the colors much closer. And the way you can see the image versus then I mean technology. We're tripling every four minutes. You know, everything is getting better. Give only, you know, walk into best buy and be like, Oh, my God. I did not know we had that. So, you know, that's part of it is keeping my eye out, making sure you're using the best methods to show your work. Can you go to big? Do you think, like, what's the optimal size of the television? You're showing your mantra zone. Yeah, I don't know the answers to the optimal size. I think that if you want to be able to regularly sell 30 by 40 is you should make sure monitors at least 40 inches wide to be ableto show something or whatever the case might be if you are. I think you don't want to do something. We have a very small display because you can't really get in and see things. And oftentimes you can walk up to a display like this, for instance, and say, You know, you talk to your client and you put a frame on the corner and say, This is what a 30 by 40 would look like framed, and it's that easy. And it's like this quick, immediate vision of being able. See it, understand it, and then I can shrink this image all the way down and say, or you do it by you know, I mean, that's pretty impactful, because again, it's just that mindset. It's the educational clients. It's not like my clients don't get it or they're dumber. It's not bad at all. It's just like, Well, they're not thinking about the stuff 24 hours a day like we are and they're not recognizing that. If they might say I would like in 11 by 14 gallery rap Just how small that's gonna look on a wall. They don't quite get that. And so it's my responsibility to show them I have a question with regard to that. Is there a strategic order that you go through product offerings in terms of what? Starting with sort of the lowest cost item ending with the lowest cost item. It was a question from Finkel Km No, honestly, I built my price list so that everything I sell I'm gonna be happy with, um and in that regard as we're stepping through this, what we're about to do in two seconds as we're stepping through this and we get to our kind of list of finals of what we want to do, we're gonna be able to say Okay, now what we gonna do with them, you know, And this is gonna be a collaborative process as well as a lot of suggestions from me. There are some images I'm going to see that I know would look 10 times better. Is metallic print like, let's not miss. This is a metallic because it's gonna pop, and it's gonna be so vivid and it's gonna be just fly off your wall. And if you try to get that as a canvas were kind of bearing some of that impact, you know? So that's kind of where the artist expertise comes into play. Like I'm not gonna put it all on you because this isn't what you do today. Well, this is what you to do today. You to do this every day. But if you weren't photographers and you didn't do this every day, so I'm gonna be mindful of that, and that's just the same thing. Like if I visit my accountant's office and he sits now and he wants to be, you didn't want to be too pushy or this or that. He says things like that, aren't you? Choose the tax code like dude no, really help me out here. I mean, they're looking to you to be able to give that expertise, you know, and that's that. That's that's wonderful. You're not being pushy, you're being helpful. The reason I asked about the price list earlier was because I want to know what the context of their viewpoint is when they come in and sit down. Has that been stressed to them? Has it just been kind of slipped in? Is an attachment to an email or is it something that has been somewhat talk through? So it's not like I want to know how much of a focus is you say it's not. You don't want it to be a focus, but how did you bring that to a point at some point during start definition, the transaction, like where they added this stage regards to that, Yeah, when I say I don't want to be a focus, what I'm saying is, I don't want toe wave some red flags at it and say, Look at this, Look at this. Look at this. I don't want it to be the focus I am. I'm not hiding it, though I'm not kind of sleeping on the rug or just saying Let's not look at that. When somebody calls in with an inquiry, I will in the way it works in my office Right now I have a studio manager in place for a lot of reasons. One of those reasons is because that whiteboard we just looked at is amazingly detailed, and I can't do all that on git. Wouldn't be a value to me to be doing all that. I would be actually kind of robbing myself of the ability to produce a higher revenue, because the spending my time working on other things, that would be better to be outsourced or hire someone to help me do a lot of things I like to hire people to do is things that they do very well. It and they're excited about in their town to that. And I'm not. So my studio manager isn't in place because when the phone rings and someone says, Yeah, so I was at a friend's house the other day and I saw one of you know Tamara's portrait's and I just want to find out about your pricing all It's your stuff, like, Have you had a chance to check out the website. Like I said, most of the time, the vast majority of time they've looked at the website first before they cost. You already have a feeling for the brand and then you talk through that and then you say, Well, OK, her session fee. It's right away. Okay, great, we'll Her session fee is $500. Um, she's currently booking at X amount of time. I'm not sure what you were thinking in terms of seasonal or this or that kind of. That's where we are. We're an associate based studio. So it's also brought up that we have other associates, very talented photographers who have their own kind of look and feel and, you know, damn er works alongside them, and this is their availability. So it's kind of like a conversation. It's certainly not like a blast of data in one person's directed it. Direction is a conversation where we know these points are gonna be touched upon, and then it's like, Well, let me send over her detailed, priceless. You could look that through. You know, some of the times they book right on the spot, and they reserve the session and they put their credit card other times, like right. Let me look at that. And then we follow up and kind of go from there. That makes sense. Okay. Okay. Um all right, so we're sitting here. Their client were started. We're opening up pro select. Um and, um, I'm gonna give the following direction. So what I'd love to do is look through. We took images, and I love to look through them. What? The easiest thing that we're gonna be able to do is look at each image one at a time, and I want to hear if you love it, if you like it or if it's just not something we're to spend a lot of time with right now. Okay. Got it. Okay. So what I didn't say was find out if you love it, if you like it or you hate it or you get my name and saying if you don't like it, we're just not gonna smell of time with right now, because the assumption is I wouldn't have presented it to them if I didn't think that it was a great image. So I'm not gonna put it in their head that it could be a sucky image. You know, I don't want to put that out there. I want to start from a neck of space. We're just talking about what we love and what we like, what we're just we're not going to think with right now. And that seems like it's little and its language and stuff. But it matters, you know. It's impactful. Eso Are you sitting there with the TV being your computer? Are you sitting there with a computer in front of you? I'm with you there. If you have, like a keyboard and a mouse. Yes, but would you have a computer in front of you? What I have is a laptop in front of me, but it's B j cabled up to the TV, and so we're all looking at the TV. Okay? Yeah. All right. So and you could do that. Plenty of ways you can have just a keyboard hook to, like a Mac Mini or something like that. If you don't want the, you know, the intrusiveness of, ah, screen or whatever the case may be, um, we do like chapstick lipstick or something. My verse It's so weird. My lips are chapped, like I've been talking forever. I haven't stopped talking so that Natalia, while you while you do that in Italia in the chat room, wants to know what kind of batteries does tomorrow use. She's been on for three days, and she's still going with enthusiasm. Way discussed last night, you know? I mean, I know that's kind of a joke, but I am not trying to advocate this. Don't so many messages, but I swear, like not, But I'm a vegetarian and I pay a lot of tension to like foods. I eat and stuff, and I swear that gives me a ton of energy. You know them. And I'm not saying if you eat meat, you have no energy. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm just saying, I think, honestly, my whole family's like that very kind of crazy. Okay, love it. Like it. I love it. Love it, Like it. Okay, that's great. It's great. They just did that, cause that will have to be sitting down with clients and one will say Love it and the spots will say liking where we were, I was bringing you back to where we were. Okay? I still love it. Always starting with this one. Yes. I love it. I totally love it. Okay, Totally love it. But let's just take that scenario, because that's something that comes up right. I had an image once that I put on the screen that I adored. And it was there to parents, to moms, their parents that we could just on that, but to parents and the one mom absolutely adored it and felt that it was striking and soulful and just in love with it. Couldn't stop looking at the other mom. And this really actually mirrored their personalities because one was very like beating Chipper and Happy Day. And the other one was a little quiet, moodier and such on the other. Mom looked at that exact same image and said, She just looks sad. I just I want to see her jumping and laughing and playing. I don't want to just kind of sitting there looking sad without smiling, you know, kind of makes me feel sad, you know? And so they'd extremely different opinions about it on what we ended up doing in that specific case, was there were two images side by side. What was colorful and really cheerful and fun. And the other one that was taken not that long afterwards was quiet and rest along processed in a more dramatic way, more dramatic black and white way. And so I pulled up both images and I said, How about one for you and for you on it sounds silly, but sometimes it's You just need something like that. So instead of getting stuck on one image, how can we find another image that may appeal to the other person a little bit more and talk about ways they could both use it? So maybe one time it's it's gonna be a great print in Dad's office. And, you know, another one will be a print in the home because Mom usually does win. Um, OK, so we love it. Great. So I'm gonna literally just say and I'll make a little silly thing about these faces up here. I'm like, No, it's OK. That's great up. Sorry. Just to that wrong love it. Okay, Jules Bianchi, tell us his enjoys shot out to Jules. Okay, Love it. So I now have one thing in the love it category, and it automatically moves me on. Um and then Okay, we're on to this one. And by the way, when we're looking at images and I immediately see something that I want to address with my client, I think awaits over there, and I'll address it in this specific image. This was before remove some of the background clutter because we had a whole film crew here. Can you see this? What I'm pointing at. Okay. So because we had a whole film crew there and there was a lot going on, Okay. So because we had some of the stuff here on a coat, hang in the background, all that sort of thing, I switch this later. It became something that was no longer part of the shot because I saw it. I stopped and I removed it. Great. I hadn't done that. However, when I took this shot, I still like this shot. So what? I'll tell that Miss Like, as you can see later, I may make sense to move it if this is, you know, something that we decided we'd love and we want to move forward with. Just know that I have in my power to either crop early well, or remove things as needed as we go through. And I make a point of saying and this is something to that I think is just in fairness to the client, I make a point of saying if it's something that you think needs to be different or you want a head swap or you got a wish you hadn't put that time your son and you want it gone or whatever. Yes, we can do anything for you. And there's this ala carte fee with additional post processing whatever we need to dio. But if it's something that you know, my bad, I am the sharper and I should have seen that this looks junky back here and I should have you know, that coach should have been there. And I'm looking through the viewfinder and you're looking at me. So that was not your fault. I'm gonna make sure I remove that at no extra charge. And that's something that just keeps me on my toes when I'm out shooting because I don't want to keep doing that. So I'll make a point of saying I love the shut just know that if the final print, this stuff will be gone. Ok, you know, that's I would say that. Okay. Like like like all you agree. And I will really do that when people say that like, they both say they like or they say, we're not going to think right now. I'm like, it's, you know, comment on the how agreeable they are to each other, and we're just keeping it going because we're not sitting here. Really? What is a black and white? So is there an option? Yeah, there's absolutely. And I like the 1st 1 was black online. I don't know if I would. So you like the toning on the back of white? Better than the color? Maybe. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, the first picture. Did it have the jacket and the person or the and you can't even notice? Well, yeah. Yeah, and we could crop in, or we can remove it, but it didn't stand out to me as much as in the color. Right. Okay, so it may be something that if this image were in black and white, you might like that better. Yes. OK, so and what I'm gonna do is to keep it real. So I'm gonna say, OK, so we like it. Let's keep going knowing that we have that option and I my notebook, I'll write a little note about If they want to put in black and white. Let's get going. What I don't want to do early on is come across as pushing for everything to be love. So I just want to hear their honest reaction to everything. And then as we go through, if there's an image like that little girl pouting that I couldn't believe, they just love, I will. I will just sit there and say, People, you have got to be kidding may teasingly. I'm not trying to be overly pushy, but I really, really love an image. And I think it's impactful. And I think it's something that they might love a little bit later, when this shifts air that shifts. Um, I do feel very comfortable sharing that my feelings, you know? Okay, so of it. This one. I love it. Love it. How you can see her tooth gone. Yeah, I do too. I actually love this right here. Yeah, me too. And I love that kind of exchange and stuff as she's here. And that's a real one before she slipped it. Oh, I love that, too. I just love the closeness of it as well. Okay, so we love it. Live it on. I love that to love that to this is this one. And this, like the other one, the other will likely a better in the other one. Yeah, she was started. Get in that zone. Anything here. And, um So if I'm looking at this image that versus this image, just looking at Leah, probably a better And the other one? Yeah, me too. And I'm making a point right here saying that two things. One, That's that's honestly my opinion. I just genuinely feel like she looks more natural and sweet, never like that. And the other one, I think also, these two images air so similar that we're gonna be getting down to choosing one. And so, by saying right up front my choice and my honesty, all I'm showing them is I actually really want you to get the right image for you all the way around. And if I pushed for if I said great love both. Um, um, I'm actually not having an honest exchange with, um and there's a little bit of credibility being bought into because we know that I'm actually being honest about my preferences as well. I'm not saying by every single one of them as a 40 by 60 because I don't think that's realistic. I'm thinking then if you separate Leah, I love the still the interaction of the three of us up top in the hints, hands holding my hands. So wait a storyboard and I'm not gonna talk about I don't mean like, I'm talking out of it. We like it, you know? We like it on, but I usually find out I end up doing with the Lovett images is all. Nearly all of them end up being larger prints or campuses or large groupings, and we're going to like it piled like it doesn't mean we don't do anything with it. Like it means we're doing storyboards and configurations and an album design. And I'll tell people if you you say that's not do anything with it and you say I like it. I'll say, Well, let's Ahron liking it because when it comes to the album we name may want to pull a few images in just a cute little details on Let's have some things to work with that we know that we like. Okay, so then we're going on. Uh, okay. Match has a question. Is this the real time? Oh, my gosh. All right, so we're gonna do about five more minutes, about five more minutes, then we have to start closing up. Okay, We're going. This one I like, I like, I think I'm leaning towards black and white, so I don't know. I like it. I like it. You like it? Okay. This image. I don't know if you remember. When I showed the shooting of it, it was actually a wider image farther back, but she had her leg up so you could see her panties. And so I cropped it before Mom ever saw it. And that's what I'm gonna do. I'm not going to save pay for the sake of you seeing how much of you know I'm gonna crop it right there, because I'm just gonna be respectful of the subjects. Okay, Like green looks pretty. Okay? I like that, too. I like that. Like like her face better in the one previous, though. But then I like the actual Tyson of this one yet. And here's someone think, Mom, no, no, this is the one thing I would say right away. As I was talking to you, I would say I like it and I love that this, You know, that's and I'll say, you know, because we've got a little bit of that plaid on the side, let's turn this into a black and white, make it all about interaction and look at a sweet print of that, you know, And then I'll talk about the fact that since you're going in again, this image was already cropped because we had the panty situation and then the situation. You know, that panties situation, It's like we're back here in the way had the painting situation. So then I cropped in again to hear so based have gone into about 1/ of the original image. What can I do with that? I can't blow that up to 40 by 60. I mean, I can, but I'm gonna have some loss of detail and I don't want my image to look like that. So What I can do instead is say I really would strong is just This is a canvas because I can go. I can go bigger on the campus with less data because the ink is spreading and I have that much more room. And if you order a campus, you're basically ordered something at around 100 dp I versus a print that has to be a 300 FBI eso don't feel like you're lost here. This has to be sold is like a five by seven. Only sort of print, or else you're gonna have loss of details. You go in, you can go bigger that way with the campus. Okay, um, and moving on, Like like that's agree. I love that I love that, too. And just so you know, right before you print these little kind of like, if he's got a little scratch or something, we're gonna make sure we get rid. I can't remember with it. That was and I see a little bit of extra shine here in the corner. I'm gonna take that out, too. And I'll say that as we're stepping through, just little things I see that I know are not going to be anything that I'm messing with Mother Nature. It's just like they were spit. There's a little bit of snot there was, you know, a mark on him and his sister drew on his face or whatever. Just making a little mention that these are all these little things that I'm to spend time with right before we go to print. And what that does is that puts more value on the print because we know we're going back in and spending more time and really caring about this image being excellent. And I will tell clients all the time. I'm not concerned. The images I'm showing writing it here is a capture, and it's the way I finished it, cause I want you to see it. But time you're physically holding your hand. There goes a lot more care goes into it, and that's part of the value of this sale, right? Well, I like it. I love his sweetness, but I'm not sure about her expression. I completely agree with you. I Mississippi exactly the same thing I said, because look at that. If you just bring it down to this focus, this completely changes the field, the image. I'm gonna go in on the umbrella cause I don't need all that for I don't want that little handle there. I don't want the time machine to pop or whatever I just did. I'm gonna watch where this crop ins, you know, make sure I'm not cropping at his knees amid a switch it way. Have a completely different image. And just so you know, right before we go to print this little distracting element I'm going to get rid of And there's a tiny bit of green cast in his hair that I don't necessarily We think we need in that. And I'm gonna correct for that before we go to print. Great. Okay, good. All right. Of the tongue and all. It's your stuff. And I would say the same thing we're going through. And we're now talking about perfection. One thing I see just the way I shot this We have a bright catch light, one eye and a sauce catch like the other before we got a print. They're both gonna be bright, Okay? Because there's just so much expression and fun and cute nous there. And I want to see that now. What if I said I like it back? White. But what if I said I would like it in color? But you thought, uh, okay, Suman it too much, you know, reflection from umbrella. And you just don't think it's gonna look so good. Yeah. So two things, If my thought was exactly that where I didn't think it would look as good, I would say, honestly, when we shot this, it was so cute in a lister step, There's a while Reflection from umbrella And what you may not see right here is there is a house right here, and the car got the shot and they were different colors. And they really pulled your eye away from what I want you to see, which is this adorable little boy with his tongue out. And he's looked the way he's looking up and all of her stuff a really feel that this image is best shown in black and white. If, however, you absolutely want in color, I'm gonna completely respect that. I spent $25 fee to go back and pull the image again because what we do every time I take the images, we download them a 1,000, places and then we immediately archive them. And so it's just kind of archive retrieval fee where I pull it up, find the image again on Denree, work it up in color so that I can finish it. Okay, he's got it. And the other thing, what that does for me is that puts me in the position that if if that's what they want, I'm absolutely to give them what they want because they're in charge and they're the client. But they're going to think a little bit more about it versus just like do that, do that, do that, you know? So if you're sitting there with the situation where a client is saying okay and that's great, but I'm gonna want you to photoshopped this out and change this and swap this head and make the Thai purple great Go What? I generally have never met a client who I think is disrespectful of me and doesn't understand that that's gonna cost me hours of time on an image. I think they just don't know that if we want to do this very well in Photoshopped, this takes time. What I'll do in a situation like this, Um, Bram looking, say at, uh, like so much if I say if I'm looking at an image where they want me to do something that I think is gonna take some time. So I'm trying to think what that would be here say that, for instance, we have this image and she said, You know what her tooth has grown in now on it like that image to show her tooth first, I would say, Are you crazy? I think what I would say that's a really important to you. Okay, we can go ahead and do that. And if I feel like it's gonna take 15 minutes of my time to make that tooth perfectly come back, I will send it off to my lab and say, Please make that change and I'll charge her accordingly for that, for that fee, Okay, it's been all right. Let me just super fast forward and pretend that we've just gone through everything. And now where we started out with 45 images and we're left with, say, we have 30 images and we're like, Oh my God, I can't believe we have 30 images. Um, will laugh about how that's crazy and that was okay. Lets decide what to do with them. I m will step through with these 30 images and one by one. Say Okay, this was great. And I love this is a stand alone and really you loved both of these of your little girl with an umbrella. Yes, but let's look at them side by side. There. Oh, gosh, I think it's opened up all of them. Yes, I did. Let's look at both of these images of your little girl and determine which one's your favorite because there's so close it unless you want to do. If I had four of these, you know that be a cool set. But two of them that close together wouldn't Nestor advocate that that's a piece that you put together? So I would say, Let's just choose which one you like and make a big deal with that one. I think the one on the right. I agree. I do agree, actually. But when we get to something here again, I'm shooting with the idea that we're going to do something with these images. And so we get Teoh set like this. You know my strong suggestion here would be, Let's use all four of these image. These are a little bit similar, except Dad's looking in different places and these air different. Let's mix them all up in terms of the order we put him in will crop them very similarly. So there that two heads are in the same place in the frame, and we'll make sure all the toning is the same on all four images, just in case all three of these were black and whites and this was a software color or whatever. And I would strongly say I would love to see this as a set either a force that or let's pick three that we love and make a trip Tik. But I wouldn't want to make just one of these images. I think part of what you're getting is the interaction, you know, and I would put it in order. That makes sense to be, I think maybe this first, then first, then that or something like that put it in order. That tells a story of like they're connecting there, laughing, and then she looks over okay, and that's where I'll feel really comfortable stepping up and saying, I have an idea here. I would love it if we could, You know, um and I have actually never presented idea and of client says to me, Who do you think you are giving me your ideas? You know, those air usually really appreciated, and if they're not 100% bought in every time, there's often very strong consideration to them. If not, you know, flat out purchase. OK, any questions before on the our sales content? Are you serious? Yeah. Any questions? Of course. I'll start with a question from Brit. Do most clients order albums and who is the album company that you use? The vast majority of my clients do order albums I mentioned earlier. I use a sticker book for quite a lot of them. Also, Cyprus albums will use. Some of those have used some of the fideo albums and the Cell Decks albums out of Australia. Quite a number of different options really have. We only show one per that we don't tryto show a town albums and a question from CBN in the chat room tomorrow. Do you sell packages or collections and if so, what do they include. So is it item by item, or do you booking them into? You know, I keep saying this, but only because it's completely true, you know? And when I say other photographers do it completely opposite and their do a great job of it, and this is how I do it. That image critique with Jerry Jonas was a perfect example, Jerry said. Of the five things he looks for, he puts mood in the fifth order. I say of everything I look for. I put expression of mood first, Um, and it's like any. Jerry's an amazing photographer and has an amazingly healthy business, and people love his work, so it doesn't mean anything less of him that that's not how I would say it. So that's why I thought that caveat all the time. I don't ever want it to be like, Well, Tamara says, no one should do it that way. That's never That is not what I'm saying. The question about how I set up my packages, though, is I have decided after trying packages for well that I moved to ala carte pricing and I love it because I don't ever want to tell people that we're gonna put a limit on how much they purchase. And sometimes when people are looking at packages, they say Great. Okay, so I'm gonna get 1 11 by to 16 my twenties and three, a bit tense. Let me look for just those products. And I feel like there's a little bit of a ceiling I put in place on, and I don't want there to be sealing. I want us to look at what we love. Let's find what we love and of the things we love, what we gonna do with them, you know, And let's put it all together and let's look at a price. It's not like I'm gonna say, OK, great, that $ giving your money, I'm gonna say, Here's our invoice. Let's look through it asked. Tell me if you have any questions. Anything you want to shift or change, Um, and you know, let's see what we put together on and then in the end will agree on it. And then at the end of the sale session, I will you know, Kate and Scott already know, but I'll remind them that we just need half up front to get things going just a 50% down. And we could put your credit card on file, which we probably already have already from the session fee. Let's put your credit card on file and when everything's ready for you, for you to pick up and it's all ready to go will charge the card. The other 50% let you know that we charge it from Joe Multi Mama Twitter. How long do you schedule for sale session and what do you call it? Assuming that you don't use the word sale. I've had a lot of people joke about not calling interviewing because big connotation there, Uh, you know, I just say you have what I literally say is let's come in and look at the images together and put your order together. Um, what I schedule it, as in my system, is a sales consultation. I think that the aspect of consultation is really big. It's not. I mean, a sale session is one thing I'm selling to you. I really want this to be Consul Tate Ip, and what I mean by that is let's collaborate and talk about what you love and let me show you, as the expert on imagery and packaging and delivery, the best ways we can put it together. And so I'm consulting with them in many respects. But of course there's a purchase in place, so there's a sales aspect to it. So it's a sale. It's a concentrate of sale session is what I internally refer to it as. But most ages position as I don't say, Come in for the sale section. I say, Let's come in, Look through what you love and find out we're gonna put together for you. And how long do you scheduled to ours who are on the books? Um, and that being said, sometimes the sale session is done in an hour or 45 minutes, and other times it's gone four hours. I've had some says I had one portrait session that went four hours, but I was really glad it did. Yeah, I'm not gonna stop the things. A girl. Two hours, no more buying. So what happens if they like? They've picked all these images they want to do stuff with, and then they Then when you get the invoice together, they realize, Oh, we weren't really paying attention to how much money we were spending. That's $4000. We don't have that in our budget. How How do you then go there? What? What's your Yeah, if I have a situation where, um and again, I'm so big on expectations said and we've talked a lot about us for stuff, but if we're association or someone's truly just, like what? Like the way we got carried away in the ordering and we want them all. And Okay, how are we gonna cut this back? How, like, how do you help them to see what they're going to scale down? Yeah. I mean, the truth is, I don't ever want to push someone into an uncomfortable situation where it really is taxing on them. And they are resenting some of this, and I don't Have you ever had a situation where you spent far more than you ever wanted to spend? You felt like you were pushed into it or even embarrassed about it. And you paid for it anyway. And then your left Later, with this yucky taste in your mouth. And I'm building a relationship for the long haul like I want to see you again. And I want you to tell your friends and this and that. And if it means the concession of one sale for the better feeling and kind of the greater good, if you will, then I will absolutely say Okay, well, let's sit down and let's work out. Make sure we get to a place of something that you want. Three idea of pushing it on or making someone that it just doesn't fit at all with everything that we're doing, you know? So, uh, and the other thing I've noticed, when I've been in situations where I feel like I'm spending a ton of money, I am, I tend to get shifted into a more critical mode, like really Plaza hotel. You're gonna make me pay for that, too, you know, like it's just human nature to start recognizing that you're feeling stretched and you're feeling pushed and you're feeling nickel and dime spent a ton of money on. Don't want to push people in that direction, so I would rather just sit. Let's let's make this a comfortable package for you. Do people often commit and tell you straight up front? This is what my budget isas faras actually sending? Yes, Yes, I people come in and say I'm spending no more than X amount of dollars, and I'm like, Well, OK, we'll get you there up to three cents. Yeah, in the end. And I've also had situations where, you know, I'm working with a couple and we put everything together and we're at a budget section, their budget, and usually we go over the budget and we're all kind of, you know, everyone expects Took over the budget. Well, yeah, there is that expectation. You know, I know that you remember the price I paid for my house. What? Actually, you know what? We ended up paying for house, but yeah, I think when you get into a situation where you're stretched in your little bit farther along, I definitely will have, like, a couple kind of on that last image. It's a beautiful and usually it seems like that's a beautiful image of the couple, and I really want them toe have that image. I feel very comfortable saying, you know, they're like, Oh, he will just do This is a five by seven. We'll just get that is by by seven I'm like, Okay, let's get that as an eight by 10 and just charge you for a five by seven. You know, I'll do something like that. I won't do it like all they'll be got the end, and I'll be when I really want them to have that image and it just it's important to me, you know, it's a small thing, but, um, it has an effect. You don't remember that I remember that and I mean it. I really want him to have that image, you know? I mean, all of this is coming from the idea. Yes, I have a mind for business, and I want the sales to go well, and I want a relationship to continue. But I also want to like what I'm doing and feel good about myself as the interactions are occurring. You know, do people ever say like, Oh, well, we just can't make this decision now, can we? Can we just come back and, like, a week or two and go talk about it? Or do you ever have, like, mom come in by herself and say, I need to talk to my husband? I can't make this decision alone. Okay, so that's part of the expectation setting we talk upfront about how well, like this is the perfect example. Scott's not here. Scott couldn't come. We really what? It's got to come. He's out. There was, I would say, Do you like all four already want just three sitting in? So if he wasn't here, I would want to ask him if he loved all three a different. And so what we do in that case is I would say up front that I really love it. So so and so to come. And if they say it, my mom filled with Katie and she's like, Scott just can't make it. I'm like, Okay, just know that you have all the buying power and that he knows it too, you know, just kind of teasing the joke and stuff, But I've already set this up. Is the time we're gonna set aside Teoh put all this together and that's that. There's a couple things in place there. One I want. I want Kate have the expectation that we're gonna have this done. Number two, um, every step of the process I have with the client is one reason the jobs unfinished. So there's anything out there that hasn't been done, the jobs unfinished. And instead of having eight jobs going on my head, I have 14 jobs going my head. And even if it's just that last step and I I need to clear the mental cash, you know, not to mention what we've got going on in the databases for tracking and everything. Eso it's Teoh. And also I don't want her to hang out the images that much longer. Like I'd like this to be fresh and exciting and fun. And I need these, you know, on and I use the analogy of It's like listening to your song favorites on the radio. You played 15 times in a row and you love it. The radios played it 500 times. You like not that strong. You just you couldn't Well, you can love something so much and then get tired of it when it's just on repeating this and that. And I want that I want to be at that fresh stage because I do feel really comfortable that when it's on their wallets, part of them, it's the investment. They love it. And now It's that kind of part of their heritage and its them, you know, versus something out there that the option to look at or not. And I'm not sure there's something that shifts in when you have that ownership, you know. And this is art, right? So as you're selling it when you're selling Aziz products framed unframed, are you giving framing suggestions, selling floppy way? Do the framing. And we dio quite a lot of framing Onda as well as the can. So things were framed Canvas pieces, Siri's composites, um, Thea albums and the and then the floppy prints. You know, floppy prints or with the gift prints. You know, little prince that you're gonna get somebody that, you know, an elbow wants to put this inner five inner verified by seven frame or something. Okay, let's get a gift for it. You know, so has your client. I know what I want, but I also know have grandparents that are gonna want something, so they're not with me today. So how would I should ask? You covered that earlier. Probably in transport. Driving on the ferry way basically will have this will walk through. This will consolidate your order will have you all set to go and then a supposed to like causing because you haven't heard back from your mother in law. Nancy's wondering why someone was wearing her pants. If you didn't see the earlier days, I got to wear a mother in law's pants. Just leave it at that. But the instead of having to wait for that and that kind of pausing the situation, we're going to make sure that we have it set up that they have a gallery of pick pick galleries. The one I use again that someone had asked that picnic is with White House are derivative White House. Um, the going to make sure they have an opportunity. Teoh, you know, purchase and use your own credit card and just check out right there way. Want to hold this process up? Great, I think is our last question. Because we've got to go ironically in tow. Life work, balance. Okay, if you have. If you when you were doing weddings? Yes, and the couple you still dio Is this the same ordering process or is it totally different for weddings, for weddings? It's totally different for weddings. I sell packages. So for portrait's, I do everything ala cart for weddings. I do packages, and I actually find that greatly desirable Because of all the moving parts and the extensive amount of detail that goes into a wedding, I want to know that every package I sell again is something I'm gonna be happy with and marma pricing structure that if the wedding is sold, they you know they've got me. I'm there. I'm gonna deliver every image. I'm not gonna worry if someone's standing over my shoulder and shooting it, too, because I already made my money. I'm already all set. They can shoot all they want because they have already purchased my images. Um, and then when they come in later, we're going to sit down and go through. The album will use this to do album selection to choose the ones we know they love for the album they like. Maybe, um, it's like everybody purchased the album and they're just everything's purchased upfront as part of a package. Yeah, So any of the additional ala cart sales are kind of those gravy. That's great. I love it, but I'm already really happy with what our package. Pick out your 20 by 30. That's in your package. Let's pick it. Okay. Yeah. And that's part of it, too. I have, like, a set point happiness point. I kind of I have a goal. And once we get past that, Yeah, that's wonderful. I'm happy. That's great, too. But I don't need to push for it. I don't really want to push for it. I do feel like I want to meet our goal. You know, make this a worthwhile experience. But I'm not. I'm not incredibly aggressive about now. What about this? What about this? What about this, you know?