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Summing It Up Pt 2

This is a question about marketing much of the self promotion in the photography industry, self paid and self generated contests, galleries best of lists, self published books all in the guise of making the public believe you have pretend credentials and are more talented than the competition. This is in direct opposition to the authenticity of the art that I want to create an offer how do I reconcile this, please? What a great question I'm so there hasn't been one question that's been like what you know these are just right on we obviously have a group of people working with sort of similar issues here you all of a sudden the whole thing you're into turns into a sort of uh uh baloney factory you're in it you know, I'm not normally in new york you stronger language, you know, um and you know, that's true for music and all of a sudden you're you wanted to be a singer and now you're figuring out how did have to do an ad for for cocoa puffs, you know they can use your song that's an ad fo...

r coco pops you know, something you don't even like or believe in and that's that's the orientation that's how you're going to succeed to get an audience these are tough questions they really aren't every artist struggles with that how much frankly it's how much to sell out you know it's selling out let's call it what it is you know you're doing stuff that is basically mainly for the purpose of promoting the possibility of your work getting known and uh, boy, some people have been so lucky that they haven't had to sell out hardly at all I don't know what what creates that kind of situation where they're just so much force coming through creative force coming to that person that it just blows everything away. But for most of us there's a definite realistic question of, like you are going to sell out but how much you know and people are going to put money up, especially if they're you know, if you're getting support uh, people going to back up what you're doing assumes you take that check, they want to say something about it, you know? So I think I'm good. What was that person photo tog? I just want you to know, I really appreciate that question and respect what you're asking there its authenticity versus commercial ality and some artists will if you're one of these, you have to be it if authenticity is everything to you, you just have to do what you do and hold on one thing, okay, you have to do what you do and then take your lumps and maybe people buy it now or later you can think of ah van gogh okay, you can cut your ear off if you want you do whatever you need to do, so if you are one of the authentic ones and that's all you can do, you just have to do it and take your lumps and maybe maybe you won't get the money or the recognition for your work in your lifetime. Can you live with that? You can't live with that you've got to give in a little bit and you have to sell out a little bit you have to play the game a little bit and try to play smart and try to play it in a way that is created for you. That's that's a really great one make that created creative in itself but nobody can really answer that question, but I think you had an idea for them, right e very respectfully, I completely disagree with you. Okay, good. I completely disagree. I do not. I know for a fact it is not a matter of a choice between selling out or being authentic. The best businesses and artists are authentic that's where you got to read to you by russell simmons I think the choices, if you want to right away you if we get into that I think russell simmons is in the sellout group, so he wrote the book you're talking about yeah, you got all kinds of lines of clothing and you know it's like I don't think that selling out he owns all of that those air hiss ideas I don't know nobody questions are they done because I love this or they done because they're going to sell if you read his book it's because he loved them and he believed in the idea bill is asking as you're very your experiences a record producer and and as an artist how have you learned to emotionally and professionally deal with producing a band or making artistic work but having it rejected we're giving to another producer does that fall under the failing of to magnetize yeah, I mean of course as we're all talking about this withdrawing from own experiences so for example an artist that I work with now who is very popular in the old world famous krishna doss very wonderful guy with a beautiful rich voice and it's a style of music that's kind of spiritually and its orientation but he's very very popular within a certain niche and he just decided this last time around to do a kickstarter campaign right raise all the money for the record that we made quite a lot of plenty of money to do the record hey made exactly the record he wanted to make my job is the producer was to help him make exactly the record that he wanted to make um and it's going out there it's going to be distributed in certain ways it's going to be mostly so live to his niche audience um it's a worldwide community you could argue there that that's an example of somebody but you seeing because I live in this other realm which is you know like orders of magnitude beyond at times and I personally chosen not to live there permanently for this exact reason on dh why my you know, on tour with christian does a bus you know and and producing those records because at a certain moment at least in the present system that I'm looking at at a certain set scale it moves into another dynamic you know? So it depends I think you're right you can have a kind of really nice mom and pop a version of reality at a fairly high end and keep your authenticity pretty intact kelly have a question and that person is still there they said they're in new york did you say million new york does she want to be in the gallery in the new york museums or whatnot? Is that a drive? Is that something that she's looking for but doesn't like how it functions? I'm and I'm just speaking because I was in new york and I happen to work in a very large respected museum and sat in on acquisition meetings and I was so turned off by the new york well, by how the art world ran and functioned and what is going on behind the scenes and when I left new york, I wanted to have nothing to do with the art world anywhere pretty much what it was really disturbing tio have that who the what's going on behind the curtains, van point being an artist and being creative and it just kind of squashed that ah lot because it had to do with oh selling out and who knows who in whose brother is on, you know, a different board somewhere and they can all get in and buy it really cheap, and it was just kind of well before you start speaking kelly mindy, it actually is almost echoing exactly what you're saying first for she's saying you're right on it, the art world is justus commercial is the business world, but before that, she said she runs photography groups in new york and it is one of the top issues, in fact is she feels it's the issue art first is commercialism those who bring the business model become entrepreneurs, those who don't have those who have don't have still not sorry those who have still not solved the dilemma of how to make a good living those who don't still have not solved the dilemma exactly well and kelly doesn't e was already thinking about one of things you're saying this there's kind of if you get to the practicality of I would call this getting it on with what you're doing you know, at whatever level you know, there's really are different levels of like breaking breaking through and different cost to pay for paying it differently that's my part my experience anyhow maybe may be limited but that's what it is and you know um the one thing is what I'm sorry what was her name was mindy is saying there is these sort of routings you have to go through you have to buy in, you know, like for example, when my head my record label we had to buy in two advertising in the stores for them to put our record in the stores, right? So in other words, that's not right I mean, we're buying real estate in the store by by paying them directly it's a revenue source for them so there's the buying of spending money to do this you do this you got to show up at this thing there's a second tier thing, which is like you could say summarized by these awards ceremonies like if you just saw maybe you don't didn't notice but there's like ten times more awards than there used to be for film and television it's just out of control and it's the same people for now, not just one or two gatherings three months in a row, you see red miles off red carpet and people in dresses selling fashion and the whole thing is just, you know, kind of very interconnected. So there's this sort of creation of venues or avenues of experience which have no other purpose than marketing, like the awards ceremonies are marketing salmon is that's what they are, they add marketing dollars to the to the the people presenting the films and tv shows, then there's a third thing, and I guess this is the part I want to really point out two people there's the personal schmooze, and you can look at that is that's this guy's thing? I don't want what I want to socialize, why don't wanna hang out with people? Why don't want to get to know somebody just because they're influential or some like that? And I kind of take issue with that being too uptight about that part, it is a social for me, you know, and that's why we talked about working, playing well with others, there's all kinds of people when you connect with people part of its on a human level and you do connect with people and you know that might be somebody who hires you don't make their next movie. And it may be for commercial reasons, but it also might be because you spend the time and energy to actually interact with people. So I kind of believe in that part of it, I think schmoozing if you're not, I'm not, you know, for totally isolated person, but even a novelist or a painter, there's a schmooze factor, you've got to go out and meet people and some of more club potential clients, and, you know, it has it's sort of a mixture of a kind of skillful marketing and slimy niss, you know? And what you wanna do is have maximum skillful factor in minimum slime menace, you know? And if you get two hundred zero, you're living in the universe that I've only dreamed about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, we can't be totally pure about these things in a certain way. The men you pick up the brush already not creep, you're you know, you could just sit alone in your room, meditate, why bother to paint something, you know? So the pure artist I you know, we have already have we're ready dirty a little bit in a certain point, we already have gotten paint on our hands and, you know, so so this is a great question, but then it leads to a much bigger question of a cultural envelope. What kind of cultural envelope do we really want to live in? And we're living in megalopolis and there's there's no doubt about it, the bigger the highest level of what we're dealing with this so tainted at this point, it's almost it's almost time to start over because of all the people in the chapels were echoing that exactly twenty three, twenty three is saying I'm very concerned about false ideas and indeed full spiritually ideas that are harmful because there are many people peddling these different ideas one that she gives eggs all they given examples what goes around comes around and we should give him we should give but that's a really harmful ideal two creative people and then mindy's going to say these authors who write the books on self promotion to self promote themselves uh but that's great because they're they know what they're talking about writing about what they know about you and I have noticed that recently, like I have marketing experts using what they know to market to me about how much they know about marketing yeah go go you yeah, you yeah you yeah that's a cool yea dot com actually this some this goes back to dealing with client student for life what a good one, huh? They're open student for life what would your advice david be on dealing with a difficult client who thinks since he or she pays that they're entitled to raise their voice just disrespect your opinion hey with delay etcetera when you disrespect by client yeah what's your advice on dealing with a difficult client and those were just to make sam samuels their behavior's well, you know, this is of course an extension of the customer service issue it's like dealing with difficult line they're still your client they're still your lifeline in some sense so that's a very tricky area and it also comes back to that stick and the carrot if you don't have a stick there which is that you can walk away from that difficult client your your negotiation capacity is going to be really limited and if they're smart difficult client they'll know that so that's interesting point um but in general um you know, we're looking for e z clients is almost too easy approach it's like you know, that would be like if you lived in paradise you know you have nothing but beautiful clients and when I meet people who have that kind of life and everything's coming easy and it's all smooth, I almost feel sorry for because you know, there's a famous story you know, in the buddhist like, of course I keep coming back to buddhism because that's my training but um there was a teacher named latisha you know, it was a famous buddhist master in india and he got invited to go to tibet to teach buddhism in tibet and he um was practicing these virtues one of them is patients you know want to practice becoming more patient that's kind of a spiritual approach you don't want everybody else to smooth out so that you don't have to be patient you're actually turned on by the fact that everybody's annoying because now you get to practice being more patient so he had that practice going had a very kind of you annoying chai wallah t t boy attendant you know, like the guy in the in the coffee shop you know ah, that guy was testing his patients all the time but so we went in to bat he thought, oh, this is going to be a problem because I've heard that too many people are so kind and so generous and so peaceful I won't get to practice my patients so he invited the tea boy to come along with him it's kind of a different angle it's something we calls close to crazy wisdom you know, so I think some of the clients are going to be more difficult than others and I think the judo comes in there also, which is you need to get there first and you know you need like if you're negotiating with a difficult client and need to make sure the terms are goingto like that you get paid by the hour over a certain amount of hours you know, so they have lever you already have put leverage into place while you had a chance to do it that keeps them from if they're going to be difficult at least you're getting paid for it for that extra time uh sort of being you have to outsmart them but also you know there has to be a limit and we have to be ready to walk away if we're ready to walk away everything changes you know, if we if we if we if we're desperate and they know what they're going to get more difficult that they're only gonna get more difficult so um those three things is one is you know, we can't be too idealistic about these things we're dealing with human beings to we have to allocate the fact that some of the difficulty we might be experiencing might be our own neuroscience that's always possible lisa at least it's possible and then you know being as clever as possible in terms of like staying ahead of the game you know, because this quite often happens on with creative audience you can continue this discussion even when he got off because the group the group in the chat room have already created a facebook page two can continue this discussion later. Lisa renee and mindy photo gear put that together so you go to facebook dot coms groups you could find that group it is in the chat room now secret follow that link and then even when we're done here, you can continue arguing elsewhere. Oh are collaborating absolutely. I think or kind of both, which is to me the most fertile territory there is if we can have a good healthy argument sometimes that's better if if everybody's willing to engage it and, uh, you know, this is I gave one talk on tuesday night about conflict and conflict resolution. It's probably the major area, you know, topic for our time. Conflict in conflict resolution, the new age people are contributing nothing if it's all about just only peace. You know, it's not all about only peace, it has to be a peace and war on dh has to be full bore acknowledging our humanity crossed across the whole. The whole spectrum and the tie line is that, you know, if you have some confidence that fundamentally people are basically good, that will, as I said, that will change your view of how you, how you do warren, how you do peace and, uh, it's a deep view it has to go down all the way into the bedrock, um and there's a lot of things that are challenging thinking not on it's a mess, it's just the whole thing's we give up. And, uh, you know, one of the things that might my teacher was always talking about us. We can't give up on ourselves, and we can't give up on on each other. It's not it's, not acceptable outcome. So is asking of david, if you can revisit something that was touched on yesterday to do it's, deciding how much to charge about how much transactions having an energetic balance with both sides, could you expand on that before we get to the end of today? Yeah, I had to set up a kind of rate card notions, having an energetic balance for both sides. Well, it's interesting, you know, if we have services we offer or products probably need to come to some sense of a consistent, you know, pricing, because if one of your customers is getting yes and the other one and they talk to each other that's going to not be so, so great, right? Um, so we should have if we're in business a rate card, you know, if you're running a studio and you're going out on wedding photos or whatever, you know or, you know, whatever else you're doing you should be ready so you don't have to pull it out of your hat every time with the rate card and then you should always have an inflated rave great card and then you should always be ready to give somebody a deal because that's what they want they want a discount there's nobody boerner doesn't want a discount if you find that group of people this is a different uh uh it's called selling into the god realm and it's really just what kind of elegance of service can you provide? You know that's all they care about they don't even look at the price tag you know but most of our business is not going to be there and we should have some sense of a fair rate based on I think looking into what the going rate is it's very helpful to you you know you're not charging four hundred fifty dollars from mount massage and the person goes well with him and I just got one last week one hundred twenty five dollars well no mine is much better it's like how much better could it be? You know it's like so we have to have some idea what the market will bear and what our quality is you know, I know people within like them just thinking a massage there were people who would charge seventy five people one hundred twenty five on when you got one hundred twenty five dollar massages, it felt like the person was that much more experience than which more knowledgeable. So we have to have a sort of assessment of of what our value is, what the market is, um, and be prepared, you know, to like, say, you know, yeah, you can't buy a package of four for this, you know, just you have some kind of opportunity for a discount. Thomas, any thoughts from you thinking? Okay, well, actually, I really have something into the thing. I was just thinking about the meta off my experience over these amita and ta abad to stay, and I yesterday there was a lot of fear there was, like things. Oh, I went won't be able to do this. It's a lot of resistance ultimately is bound resistance, and today there were a lot of thoughts of opportunity. I was generating ideas, took a lot of notes and put up my action, my mind, my tax thing. So it's, really interesting to see what you observed myself going through this experience. So we're moving from kind of fear into opportunity. Yeah, that's great. I mean, really, thank you for saying that that was my aspiration for this is moving from being stuck into transforming obstacles into a sense of opportunity first by identifying the obstacles because that's that you know, I think you said tcb at one point I wasn't even aware of the difference between sales and marketing. So really by summing up these sort of key points, the idea is to identify, clarify certain things and then use it as a roar shock throw yourself up again, you know, so in a way, my my offerings kind of neutral that's why I'm not telling you how to do it? I'm just saying, let's, look at some of these things that come up over and over and over again for all of us I was curious to see, you know, people go, huh? You know, this is not I'm not experiencing, I don't have to worry about sales, you know, it's like I'm an artist, you know, I thought we would have this kind of conversation and just to catalyze it and then throw it back to everybody to go at the end at the end of it, you say good luck and you wish everybody well and there's some sense of trusting people that point too, to take to take it further on dh trust that process, you know, so I of course loved to hear about it, you know, if we have these kind of exchanges to me and this is why something like facebook has been kind of amazing for me and then real innovation I hear from people all over the world about these things and it's getting to the volume where maybe I can't always like bright back when somebody writes a five page commentary on something I can't always respond to it but um you know, our possibility of creating community is unprecedented right now that's what I I am basically an old school guy with a digital heart you know? And I think the opportunity for us to define things in a new way has never been stronger because you can get teo I have a television station I don't need nbc if I want to put something out I've got my tuesday dharma gathering and a million people could be watching if they knew about it and if I decide I want them to be watching I'll figure out how to market it to them you know we'll figure it out and if I if I think well, you know this is so good that why don't we just go a little dangerous and be a little bit commercial about me doing this already is that you know, my other brothers and sisters you know, teach buddhism are not doing this necessarily and I thought well hey what's the harm and be your reaching out beyond beyond that the group of people who normally wander into a meditation center and you're presenting something and I feel you could say confident my own motivation of this point you know I'm not worried about it andi uh, part of that is uh um I'm not worried about survival anymore, you know? And I define success is being here doing this with you guys that's how I define it so there you go so interesting we also spiritual world of the media world come together we have to figure that one out there that could be space and we have to fill every space because that's that's what our society has dictated that space is horrifying place we don't want to leave any space, so why don't we leave some space here before we close and just do one more period of meditation together and in a sense all the you know goodness all the communication all the genuine enquiry all the heartfelt uh, you know, offerings that you've made and exploration with the feeling of that reason residing just to allow ourselves to settle back into the primordial uh, place that d c b was so kind to point out of just resting our mind in the kind of open quality a natural awareness and know that only good things are going to come out of that in the end, even if they feel like they have some sense of journey and struggle is we go so um we'll do a meditation practice I'll lead it because it's easier for the people online to follow so having taken your seat there on a cushion or on the chair placing your feet if you're in the chair directly onto the floor feeling the ground beneath you making a strong connection between your but on a chair in the cushion you belong in your spine so they have nice elevation sense of pride and dignity in your body feeling strong back and a soft open front tuck in your chin and slightly head is upright izer open with a soft downward gaze breathing naturally feeling the strength and well being your body begin to draw your attention to the breathing people of the breath going in and out either the tip of the nose stomach rising and falling on the full cycle of breath through the body make that the focus of your awareness each breath is different it's your whole world around that threat of mindfulness there's a feeling of openness to the environment you can feel the space around you sounds visual input feeling of the wind on your skin because if you finally landed on your home after a long journey sometimes your mind wanders off with various kinds of thoughts and you notice that and this is where with gentleness and precision who simply label that thinking and bring your awareness back to the breath sounds come up around you can just notice them you don't have to make any kind of story line out of that just bring your awareness back to the breathing so if you can hold that space, I'm just going to read through our key points as we finish and sum up the workshop and charlie here them in this sort of open space and just let the thoughts come into your mind you're gonna take them home and marinate with them joining heaven on earth heaven is your vision earth is your current reality your job is to connect the dots and bring them together take your mind to the gym just as we can train the body to develop strength, flexibility and stamina, we can also train the mind to develop clarity, focus and stability to find your offering there's no business if you don't have something to offer your first step is to clearly define what that is could be a service, a product or intellectual property spend time in the sandbox remember playing in the sandbox is a kid you had time you didn't have to be somewhere else he didn't have a list you were checking off agendas, timelines and obligations can be the enemies of creativity when we mix creativity in business there's a price to pay literary literally and figuratively there's a difference between a profession and a hobby our business can only succeed to the level of success will allow in our life we experienced poverty mentality when we cannot access our own internal sense of riches and worthiness. Success on her own terms. Fundamentally, we're talking about defining and achieving success on our own terms. Each of us is unique.