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Lesson Info

Putting the Story Elements Together

you know it's tempting, especially when your producer of this American life in your stock in trade is telling stories on the radio, uh, to divide the world into storytellers, in on storytellers on. But I don't know if that's necessarily true, but there are certain people who have an instinctual feel for like how to arrange it, you know, sort of how to sort of have a buildup and how to get to a punchline and how to make that punchline sort of entertaining or evocative or something. And then there's other people who don't have that instinctive ability at all. And, ah, lot of times when we're doing, when we're going about our business, trying to tell stories, interviewing people, whatever you'll you'll you. Most people need help, and that is one of your jobs as a sort of somebody who's trying to facilitate storytelling. And whatever you're trying to do is to help people give them the tools that they need to to tell a good story. Um, and there's, um, pretty common mistakes. Um, mistake Num...

ber one is just is too not No, not get to the punch line fast enough. And if you do get to the punch line. Have it not be that good, right? Have it be it I look down on my shoes were brown. Um, so that's one problem. It's sort of people think that their story is better than it is, right? And so one thing that you have to do is to sort of be the judge of sort of, like Is that Did that rise to the level that I needed to rest? It Was that an interesting enough revelation moment? Was that a funny enough joke? Whatever. Um, but then the other thing that I've noticed that people do all the time, they tell their stories out of order, and they put the punch line first. So I'm gonna start with a, uh, I have a this sort of like the uber example in my mind of this is a story that I did at this American life a long time ago. So I'm gonna set that up, and I'm gonna play the story the way it appeared on this American life. Um, and then I'm gonna take you through all the work that it took to get there. So, um, so the set up of the story is this is a long time ago we were doing show, but it was very high concept, story and show. It was called The Secret World of Daytime. And the idea was, you know, you go to work and you're at work and you're, like, sort of in your office. And then you look outside and there's all these people who are outside during the work day. What are they doing right? What's up with a better concept back then? Because now, like everybody works from home and he works in a cafe. So it's not that surprising to see if you're blogging about during the day. But back in the nineties, before the Internet age, it was like, you know, sort of something that he was doing. So that was that was a set up, right? We're gonna go out. And I had this idea that I'd read some article about, like, the work of a mailman and how like a like a postal carrier, or goes out into these into these neighborhoods and like, they're like bedroom communities where everybody goes into the city to work, and then the postal carriers, all alone in the neighborhood and It's this sort of existential, sort of like feeling of just being like I'm the only one out here working in this lonely neighborhood. Uh, so that's right. Wanted tell. I want to find, like, a eloquent, poetic mailman who could talk about the existential angst of delivering mail to empty homes. Uh, so I called the public relations person that Chicago Post office on. They had been in some scandal recently, so they were like, We're not giving you anybody interested. So they gave me the best mailman in the system, like the most steadfast, honest and true mehlman that they could find who also happen to care Onley about the male and how to deliver it properly and was not at all like, I didn't really have very much sort of, like interest in introspection. Um, so I was following around. I was like, Oh, God, what is gonna happen? But there were some interesting things that I noticed while we're walking around on the route. So I was out there for a day with him flying around, recording him as he was talking about it. Andi did. He was working in a bedroom community there, weren't there wasn't anybody home during the day. So he was out there and the only people who were out there where these were drug dealers. So he worked in this neighborhood where it was like, sort of like there was him and there were drug dealers, and he had this really conflicted relationship with the drug dealers. On the one hand, he was sort of scared of them. They were sort of scary guys. Um, but in the other hand, they were sort of in it together. They were the only ones working out there, and they were both out there. Rain or shine, Snow or sleet, Uh, you know, trying to make a living. You know, it's sort of like plying their trade in the middle of this empty neighborhood. So So there was this weird sort of, you know, conflict that I wanted to get get at him. So, um And then, at a certain point during the day, he told me this story that got to the sort of the inherent nature of that sort of conflicted relationship. He was so scared of the drug dealers that he would not call them drug dealers. Hey, would only call them business men or boys in the hood. So that's just just you need that disappear. Important. All right, So here's Here's the story. There was a situation where the guy moved, and, uh, this is a customer that you've known your I've known for while he had been on the run about two or three years. Uh, I told you before the melted a new address. This guy not knowing there's been afforded. He tells me you're going to make me given his check. He had the impression that still had to check. And what what he said. Well, here he is telling me you're going to get my check. You go get my check. I keep telling where it's been forwarded to your new address. I told him if I would be there tomorrow or the day after, and he says, Well, you can't wait and, uh, look like you were gonna put me on something because he was taking a jacket. And when he came to me, the boy then hits around until that's my mailman. You don't mess with him, you know? So he went on about his business. No problem. So what did you say? those guys. Oh, I just thank him. How you doing here? I just thank them for what they did. He said they told me where. No problem. Because you've been around too long for anybody to be messing with you. So there's, like, there's two moment that I want to sort of point out to you guys right now from that story. So the first one was the moment where he where he realized with moment of realization, the punchline. Um and then the second one was, What are some key details that you remember from that from that story? The mailman story? They were the ones that sort of in the rising action. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, because he's gonna whip him, right? Yeah, Exactly. Anything else? Yeah. Morgan, the gate closing the sound of it. Uh huh. Can tell. He's, like, on his route. Yeah, absolutely. You definitely here. That That was like a nominee. President. Sound that were sort of going through. But the definite like, who else would have said that? Took his jacket off? Looked like it was gonna want me. Right. Okay, That's a key detail, right? That's one of the ones that you're sort of like, Oh, okay. It just gives you this visual. I go. Okay. This guy coming down, and he's like, Where's my check? Um, all right, so So we got a punch line, and when he came to me, the board then hits around until this. My mail. Me, you don't mess with him. All right, so that's the punchline. And then you've got this key detail look like you were gonna put me on something because he was taking a jacket on, all right? And so this is what it looked like. That's what it looks like when I edit it. Okay, so this is the software that we use its pro tools. It's just the editing soft that we use and these all these lines are edit marks. OK, so this is what I did. This is sort of the surgery that I did on this story, all right? And, uh, so I'll just play it again. You can see it going with a situation where the guy move. All right, so you just follow the air. That's it. No customer that, you know that you're have known for a while. He had been on the rough about two or three years. Um, I told you, we ford the mail to the new address. This guy not knowing there's been afforded. He tells me you're gonna make me give him his check. He had the impression that still had to check. What? What you see when it's softer lines of softer Tom, what is afforded to your new address? I told him to probably that tomorrow or the day after, and he says, Well, you can wait and, uh, look like you're gonna put me on something. Carly was taking a jacket on, and when he came to me, the board and it's around him. That's my mailman. You don't mess with him, you know? So he went on about his business. No problem. So what did you say? Those guys? Oh, I just thank him. How you doing here? I just thank them for what they did. He said they told me when. No crime. Because you've been around too long for anybody to be messing with you. All right, so that is what it looks like. That's when I'm editing with story. That's what it looks like. You see, there's a lot of that. It marks So one way of telling a good story tell it was a bad story teller. The number of edit marks they require to get them to get them in order. So this is so let's talk about this. So the punch line. And when he came to me right there, the board and it's around him, that's my mail me 45 minutes with 44 seconds in. So this is this segment right here? That is when they when he came to me, the boys and had surrounded him, told him, That's my mailman. You can't mess with them. That's a 44 seconds. The telling detail look like you were gonna put me on something because he was taking a jacket on. So that's a 39 seconds. OK, so there's there's the punchline that we've identified this telling detail that we've identified there in order the telling detail, it seems before the punch line. All right, now I'm gonna show you now, going to play you the raw tape of what actually happened when I was talking to Henry. And there's a couple lessons in this tape. First of all, and this We talked about this in the last session. Often you'll be talking to somebody who wants to tell you one story, and you want them to tell you another story and you're right. And they're often often this or they want to tell you is not the story that you want to hear that your your listeners you're gonna want to hear. And so sometimes it's a gentle nudging away from the sometimes, you know, from the story they want to talk to the story you want to tell. Sometimes it's an out out battle between you and them on. That's what it was with Henry. Because the story Henry wanted to tell me and I told you he was like the best mailman in the Chicago Postal Service system. The story he wanted tell me it was how to properly forward your mail on. So and so just as you're listening to this tape, notice how many times he starts talking about proper mail forwarding procedure and how many times I have to get him back. All right, so let's just hear the raw tape now. This is what it looks like, all right. And here we go. This is the raw tapes. Is about to two minutes long. There we go. There was a situation where the guy moved, and so change of address card was put in order. Okay, this guy in turn, I told you before the melted a new address. This guy, in turn, not knowing there's before, did he tells me you're gonna make me given his change. And when he came to me, the boy, then it's around. Let's my mailman. You don't mess with him. Have been explained to him already. That are. His mail has been forwarded to his new address. And that's all I can say. You notice your move. You know you we don't have a holding facility. 40 mil. So naturally, ford it to, you know, address. That's purpose of the Ford in order So they can't my rescue because I didn't know what he was gonna do. He was taking a jacket. He was taking a jacket open. They came from so wait. Instead of seeing a little bit more. So you're coming up. You go to this house, right? Okay. The same thing. Okay. Well, what was? I was coming up to his house. He had turned moved. He farmed, obtained with Carr. His responsibility because of the way this is a customer that, you know, you have known for a while he had been on the rough about two or three years. Uh, this individual here, he decides he's going to take how much it, you know. Yeah. So he's waiting. He decided he's gonna take a check on him. You know, this impression that I'm getting because I have already told Mr Forward into a new it. We'll hear what he's telling me. You're going to get my check. You don't give him a chance. AKI is afforded to your new address. Told him to be there tomorrow or the day after. And he says, Well, can't wait. So when he was, he had the impression that still had to check. That's what it was. I think that's what he had been president. So he had turned, looked like he was gonna put me on something called He was taking a jacket. So, uh, you might have noticed that. So let's see the punch line. And when he came to me, the board in his around told this my meal me happened. You don't mess with you, have it in 22 seconds, telling detail. Looks like you put me on something. Carly was taking a jacket off, having a two minute to the very end of his story. So what I so this is what happened Was I I knew that I needed a story to hang this thought that I'd sort of observed on. I knew that that I needed, like, some sort of telling story that was sort of gonna, like, help get across this thing that I've been observing. And when he told me the punch line of the boys in the hood coming to his defense, I was like, Oh, that's a That's a punchline But it needs a good story as part of it. And so all the rest of minute and 40 48 seconds is me trying to go back and get the details from him to put in order. Now, most people are not gonna be in the situation where they can sort of go back, get the details in order and then reengineer them through spirituals in the power of editing software, stuff like that. And I'm not suggesting that that's what necessarily everybody's going to dio some people Some of you might want to be doing that, But but the sum. But many of you are gonna have podcast. We're going to sort of light editing. Maybe on your you know you can You can edit out a chunk, and so if you notice and what you can do is you can back somebody up. If you hear a punch line without a story, you can sort of say to them, actually back up, tell me that as a story, you know, just to set the scene a little bit more and that that often will do the trick. Not everybody. You know, not everybody is sort of like as resistant to sort of narrative as this particular Mehlman was like, There's a and even he wasn't He actually got better. He loosened up in everything like that. So, uh, most people have a natural sort of sense of like, sort of like if you if you giving them the right prompting, they will back up. So But if you see what I what I ended up having to do was sort of like going back. And then when I was editing it, I took This is the way again. This is the edited version. So I moved the telling detail right there. I moved the punch line over there and they're the punchline now happens instead of seconds at 44 seconds. And the telling detail instead of happening at two minutes, happened at 39 seconds. So I was just sort of restoring everything in order. Questions, Yes, Free. So I just made a note in my notebook to think about that when I'm editing. But I want to make sure to ask every single episode you dio Is this the kind of formula you use? And when you're editing, you think about actions. Did a telling, detail, punchline, moment of reflection. And then you make marks for that. Is that just something I should use? A rule of thumb as a podcaster, I think. I mean, I think it's like I think it becomes a little internalized. It wasn't like it wasn't that I necessarily, um it wasn't It was really sitting down and sort of trying to think how to explain it, that I realized that that was that, was it? But yeah, absolutely like we will think like what's the story we'll talk to ourselves about, like, sort of like there's a lot of great stuff that's not a great emotion. There's not enough stories. We have a term of art that we used at this American life, which was sort of anecdote. We call it an anecdote, and but essentially it meant, like, you know, a 32nd two minute and a half long narrative that sort of had sequence of actions and that arrived at a point on that's what we yeah, I I think absolutely. I think that the building block of any successful conversation, any successful sort of story and successful communication that you're doing that you were you trying to use storytelling to sort of get across the point. If you can have the details and then have them arrive at a point that will that will help. I'm doing it all the time right now. You know what? I'm up on stage. I'm telling these details and then I arrive at a point. I did it with it with with Henry before where I was saying where setting up Henry. I told a story. I said Now a lot of times can remember exactly did But it was like a lot of times, you know, you'll find this and some people will say this and some people say this and you're battling with people. And then I got to the punch line. Henry. What he wanted to talk about was proper mail forwarding procedure, right? And so that was the punch line of my my story. But I told it is a story. And if I had just said, Henry, you want to talk about proper mail forwarding procedure, nobody would have left if I had said that first. So it needed the set up to get the to get the laughter right, So So absolutely. This is something that I think is I think about it when you're when you're trying to, When you're in the storytelling business, this is what you think about. You know, any time you're editing, anytime you're tell me anytime you're telling a story, you are, at the very least, lying by omission. Write a story is leaving details out. Uh, and sometimes they're the meaningful details to the subject of your story that are not the meaningful details to you, Andi. It is. It is something that if you are not thinking about and wrestling with constantly. It's probably not doing it right like it is something that you should be constantly with editing. You can take a no and make it a yes. You can utterly change the meeting on DSO. It is incredibly important to be true Teoh to the intent of what people were saying. This story is not I don't think this. I don't think Henry would have a problem with the story that I mean, you know, he heard it presumably, and he never, never said anything to us. And in the years of working in audio that, you know, I can count on one hand the type the number of times where people have been, have felt like, you know, taking out of context or felt like way got it wrong. But everybody always feels like it's not exactly the story I would tell about myself, right? And that's and that's like, um you know, and I have had that happen with me. You know, I've had been the subject of stories I'm like, I don't know if I tell that story about me that way, you know, but eso so that respecting and honoring that feeling and knowing that you were taking somebody else's story and making it into your story and that there's something a little bit funny about that. I think you just have to give to honor that, for sure.