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The Art off the Interview

we're gonna be talking about in this segment is the art of the interview. Um, and what I'm gonna be covering today, what I'm gonna be covering this in this section is first of all, like, sort of the most basic question. Which is what? What are you going for when you're interviewing somebody? What are you trying to get out of it? What is the thing that you wanna What is a What is a good interview look like, right? What does it feel like when it's happening? Um, on as part of that, I'm going to go through what to ask. How do you come up with the questions to ask, um and, uh, maybe talking a little bit about the power of the right question. Um, on that, I'm also gonna be talking about nuts and bolts. So that's coming up. Um, So, uh, what do you going for? Um, so the first thing that you're that you're going for, uh, is what we what we talked about in the last section, which is authentic moments of, you know, sort of authentic moments of authentic emotion, authentic sort of realization, au...

thentic moments of humor, something that feels like a really emotion like those those air golden moments in an interview. And that sort of that's one of the things that you absolutely want to go for. And we talked a little bit about that before, and I'm gonna talk about that a little bit later. Um, but the thing that I want to focus on now is the other thing that we're talking about is, um, stories, Um, and this and and I am I have a, um I have a sort of, ah, very specific meaning when I when I say what an actual story is. So this is a story that was on this American life a while ago, and, um, the set up is that is this actor Tate Donovan Donovan is it was a sort of a character actor. He'd been, you know, sort of on a couple of different shows, but get recognized very much. And then he had a like a stint on friends, and all the sudden was starting get recognized. And it was really exciting for him to be recognized because he finally got to be the celebrity that he always wished that he could be the celebrity that he would have wanted to meet before he was famous. Uh, so when he got recognized and so one and this story happens when One night he was out at this Broadway show and a lot of people were coming up to be like, Hey, I saw you and he was able to, like, talk to people and be very magnanimous and say Thank you so much really means a lot. And he was like posing for pictures for people. And it was at the show. It was happening over and over and over again. I was I was I was exactly how I wanted to be. I was doing it. I was doing great. And then the kid with the camera came along. This'll nervous, kid. I must be 16 years old. He's in a rented tuxedo, unbelievably like shy and awkward, and he's cock acne and he's got a camera in his hand. And underneath a marquee is his date, who is mentally like a prom dress. She's got a course AJ, and she's really, you know, nervous and sort of clutching her hands, and he sort of comes up to me and he sort of mumbles, you know something like, you know, something about a picture. And I'm like, I just feel for him. So I'm like, Oh, absolutely, my gosh, or I have no problem. Like God, you poor thing. And and I go up to is his girlfriend. I wrapped my arms around her, and I'm okay. Where you from? Fantastic. Going to see the play. It's great. And the guys sort of not taking the photograph very quickly. He's just sort of staring at me. And he's got his cameras hands and is down by his like chin, you know? And she's very stiff and awkward, and I and I don't know what to do. So I just leaned across and I kiss her on the cheek and I'm like, All right, come on, take the picture. Hurry up. Do you want to find out what happens next? That's a story. Uh, when you want up, so what? That is the power of a good narrative. So when I talk about I'm talking about, like, those two basic things, you're going for a motion and narrative. We as humans are hardwired, I believe, to listen to narrative, and it's a very simple sort of the mechanics of narrative are very simple. There's like a sequence of actions and there's sort of rising action and its culminating in something. And you were in the middle of that sequence of actions and you're about to get to the culmination and I stopped it and it's frustrating and you really want to know what happens next. And you would never if you were listening to this, have turned off that podcast or that radio story at that moment. And that is a good story. And that's why you want to operate in stories. That's why you when you're interviewing people, you want to get their stories out of them on and you want to get them talking in stories because stories are what we want to hear. Um, and so when you're working in an audio format, you need to operate in stories. Um, the other thing we want to hear as we heard before is emotion. So those are the two things you're going for in a good interview. So moving on actually do want to hear what happens next? Alright, alright, I'll rewind it again and then we'll have a playoff and I don't know what to do. So I just leaned across and I kiss her on the cheek and I'm like, All right, come on, take the picture. Hurry up. And finally, he sort of, like, snaps it. And I'm like, OK is really wonderful to meet you. And he just stammered over to me and was like, um, could you take a picture of us? Oh, on the whole time, he just wanted me to take a picture of him and his girlfriend underneath the awning of the play he didn't want picture me. He had no idea who I waas. Oh, God. I got a little emotion there, too. Yeah, Um, so that is what I'm talking about when the story. So they're very, very simply we're gonna be talking a lot more about what story is in the next session, but but very, very simply, it is that it is a sequence of actions that culminates in something comes some sort of revelation, some sort of punch line, some sort of joke, some sort of like realization. And more to the point, it's something that you don't want to turn off that you don't want to stop listening to. Um And so when. So that is the thing that's in your mind when you're going out and doing an interview with anybody. You want to ask questions of the interview subject that are gonna either illicit an honest emotional reaction or they're gonna elicit them telling you a story. Um, so and there's a lot of things that you can ask, um, that that well, so let's let's talk about that. So, um so what task? Right. So, first, if you're trying to ask questions that that will elicit this story, um, first what? You don't want to ask ever, Really? Yes or no questions. I mean, you got to get some facts out of the way, but you don't want to ask a yes or no question, because that is not that's the end of a story, right? Um, and eso you how you phrase the questions is very, very important. Um, you want to sort of ask questions? I often sort of say, Tell me about the time when read something, You know, you were just like you want them to tell you use words like tell me, um, so there are automatically started to talk to you in story language. Um, tell me about the time. Tell me about the day when you blah, blah, blah. Tell me about the moment when you realized that this was what was gonna happen. Tell me about the time in your life when you were going through this thing. Um, another question that works really Well, tell me the story of just ask him straight up. Right? You know, telling the story of this, How did this happen? Come of the story. You know, sometimes that works. Um ah, another thing that you when you that you when you're on the right track, you know when you're on the right track is when people are actually sort of like talking to in dialogue. If somebody is saying Well, first I said, and then she said, And then I said, uh, that's really that you know, you're on the right track here so often I will tell people you know, described the conversation where blah, blah, blah. And because if you get people sort of telling you like he said that she said that he said that She said, That's great. You know, you're on the right track that somebody's telling you a story right then Because they're quoting dialogue. Teoh, um, again, Tell me about the often what you're going for is a moment of realization. So a story has to culminate in something often this often The thing it's culminating in is a moment of realization. Uh, so you want to say Tell me about the day that you realize whatever it is that we're talking about here, um, another thing that really works. Well, um, is if people can sort of talk through a process of, you know, there's often steps that led from one situation to the other situation. What were the steps that got you from one thing to another? What were the steps that got you from? You know, your career in the offer Army to your career, a zoo, celebrity, florist or whatever. Right. So, uh, anybody here have that career trajectory bythe um, So, uh, so you want to ask that, like, sort of what were the steps? If you can get people breaking that down into steps and often each step is its own story. So often, Step one will be Well, I was You know, I was I was I was I was, You know, I had my career in the in the Army, and this one thing happened when I was, you know, in the Army this day happened that I wanted that made me want to change. So they'll tell you that. And that's a story. Each step can be its own story, but that sequence of steps is also a story. Um, so these are all sort of questions that will that will elicit stories. You want to have people back up, you want to do all that stuff. All right, so that's one whole set of questions. Um, and often when you're doing, uh, so that's a whole set of questions. The other set of questions. So what do you ask if there's a whole other set of questions that are built around a listening sort of honest reflection and emotion, So that's the other stock in trade. That's the other thing that you're going for, right? Pretty simple to things. Um, So what do you So what do you ask? But when? When you're trying to get people to tell you, um, you know, tell you how they feel. One question is, how'd that make you feel it's pretty straightforward. Uh, there's a There's ah, I often joke that, like doing a good interview for for audio and having a good sort of therapy session look very similar. Um, because what you are trying to do is get people to articulate their emotions in words. All you have an audio are words. That's all you have. You have people's words, and so if they're feeling something, it's like if something happens and you're not shooting it, it didn't happen. If they're feeling something and they don't articulate it, it also didn't happen. So you need them to articulate the way they're feeling. And so a lot of what you're doing is you're in the audience, you're in the interview and you're like, I noticed feeling in your voice or in your manner, and I want you to articulate that feeling, um and so um so that's one thing. And so that's how did that make you feel? Is a big is It is a big one. Often you also want to encourage that kind of reflection. Some people just aren't very naturally reflective, but they've gone through something sort of momentous, and you want them sort of like getting that, getting the emotion in there. So one good trick I've I've known is sort of like, if the old new could see the new you, what were the old you say? Um, because often you're going You're interviewing about something that has happened to them. They have gone through some sort of transition. And you want the You want that, um, moment. You want them to be able to articulate with that transition meant to them? So, um ah, ah, lot of what emotion is around is around internal conflict. Um, so a lot of, uh and this is one of the things that I love about audio, Which audio can do uniquely well is that it can give voice to, um, interior sort of interior drama. Uh, if there is, you know, on television you can sort of see people looking pensively, or you can sort of like you can You can get across an internal life, but stuff has toe happen on, you know, on tape. You know, it has to be happening. And with audio, you can if you can give people if you can get people to give voice to the to the internal conflict. It has the power of any kind of real drama. So so what I often say to people is like I'll often say, like, so conflict. You're going for conflict But it could be conflict within a person. It could be a person feeling conflicted about something. And so a big question that I use a lot, which is sort of like just if you had to describe the debate in your head over this moment over this act that you took what was one side saying What was the other side saying, You know, um and it's just getting people to sort of like voice this, this, the feelings that they're having And often our feelings are contradictory, right? And so you want the and that's great. If people have a conflicted feeling when you're interviewing them, that's a wonderful thing to that's what you want because that's the way of breaking out of what you were talking about. An, which is the canned thing. Part of what being canned is is just sort of just having like a, you know, sort of like a very, very straightforward feeling about it that you don't necessary believe but you can't shake people out of. And so what you want is to sort of, like, get at, like, you know what? What was the conflict? Was there ever a point where you didn't feel so confident confident about this? Was there ever a point where you, like, felt differently? You know, sort of like, you know, and sort of. And sometimes it can be just a simple as sort of like, you seem very confident right now. Was that always the case? You know, And if they say no, then just zero have had, like, zero in on the weakness. Three emotion, right? Like that's what your That's what your job is, right? Um, another. Another question that I would often happens in an interview on a bench of this. This will happen to you. If you're doing your interviews, somebody will say something, and it feels like, very important to them. Like they've said something that you know is meaningful. Uh, you know, and like, you know, you're talking to like a, you know, a rail yard worker, and they'll be like, Well, you know, and then the boss gave us, like, you know, extra hours and they say it like and you're like, Wow, the boss gave extra. You're saying it like it's important and I have no idea what it means, but it means something to you. There is a motion in the voice, right? Like, what does that mean? And so and often you and I would always flub this thing. I would know that there was something that they were getting at, but they weren't articulating it to me. And and then and then I will use this question. Use this question all the time, and it's a really great question, and it's super straight for it. It's just sort of like, What do you make of that? And so I say it all the time now because, like, I'm often I just need them to tell me the reason that there's emotion in the thing that they just said, Um, so what do you make of that is really, really uh, a really important question. Um, the other thing that I think one of the most important things that we, which is, you know, sort of like part of the one of you make What do you make of that question again? uh, you sort of ask what you make of that and then you're It's sort of a dumb question. You sort of feel like an idiot for asking. It's like, sort of like basic and weird and like, It's not a question that you actually ask that often in normal conversation. Uh, and so and this gets to the point of sort of like, Are you having a real conversation? Are you having a staged conversation Sort of to elicit certain things and you're doing a little bit of both, right? And what did you make of that is very much like a staged sort of therapy kind of conversation, You know what I mean? Uh, and so but really important is to then shut up. I can't get across enough the importance of shutting up, Um, and like early on in my career, I would come back and I would just be talking so much and people would start to be telling me interesting things and I would be talking over them, and it was all because I was nervous and I was worried about, like, sort of making them feel uncomfortable, and you sort of want them to feel uncomfortable a little bit, not totally uncomfortable so that they're not gonna be like talking to you. You want them to feel you want them to feel safe, But you want them to feel like they're saying something real, which is often uncomfortable. So you want it to be safe. You're not judgmental at all. You never want to be judgmental. But you want to be asking real questions. You want them to be thinking really, really about him. So, um, another another just sort of, you know, good. Good question. That sort of gets at this is that is the why is this story meaningful to you?