Lessons

Lesson Info

Shoot: Hollywood Glamour Shoot

the first thing I have to acknowledge is that we're referencing hollywood so we're referencing harrell and lots of other incredible photographers from that period most of these licenses off these images are owned by studios and by the stars so we can't show them because this is a workshop that is for sale and that would be making money off the images that's very strict with licensing for that reason so what we did was when we shot the enomoto hollywood shoot we referenced five images from five stars and then we chose our photographers to model for them and each person represented the star that we wanted them to look like so we can't show you the reference shot but we can tell you the final shot that we took you'll recognize his images I think so this is brooke shadings I can I say who she wass who we were referencing yeah yeah I'm sure you came we just can't use their images that was millan marlena dietrich yeah and it was so very brooke never wears makeup not a sk eric of makeup and s...

he had the most amount of make up on because we had to soap her eyebrows so this is a really great tim soap so it's a really great tip it comes from drag makeup on it's quite remarkable you get a white so and you wet it so in your palm put a bit of water grab a white bar of soap and moisten it and your palm so just sort of roll around and then start pasting the soap on the brow and it takes to a white skin tone and then you just powder and and you you powder I've right now we should do that for me after lunch that would be weird and then we get an eyeliner pencil and we draw in that period of eyebrow which is really significant in terms of makeup styling because they didn't have a lot of eye makeup on uh every single when I studied practically had no makeup on but they had very distinct eyebrows and strong lips so that whole period for doing when you're doing it shooting a cdo strong lips and a good strong brow not too much eye make up it's certainly not contoured eyes and big lashes it's really light on their eyes were going to show you how felix lit all of these shots and here we shot them the next image is large aid in felix kuhn so they were bogie and bacall it was so neat doing this it was such a awkward position for larra because she had to hold him makeup for about a minute to look at my ugly mug the whole time and we had teo message it was like this weird and hot you look at poses and when you try to do them this image freak me out from the original and you can't see the originals on my block because my block exist is a teaching method not a selling method so it can go on my block and enomoto and now using these images but they've paid for the license to use the likeness it's waited this for fun in leaning so the next image is susan stripling is audrey hepburn classic beauty she has a faux friend john because obviously susan has long hair what's the french maid off sir now we got a real here we're not important has now I can't mine it didn't wait didn't I cut a hole in the bottom of my hair and stuck it to it for him and she was like this is so gross um it was so weird finding are the outfit it's so easy they offered to so cheap uh we just needed to find the shapes you know the gloves for three dollars that necklace in sally's are good she's from inamoto and she helped me starlet we found the exact outfits online you know we searched audrey hip in and then you get order hitman's costume and we're gonna owe you know it was really name was like I got to be liz taylor in felix shot the site it's such a beautiful shot and it was so good I'm wearing a corset and and then I had to cut out a little bit more because man that woman had a small way I've pushed sue when I was like and I was like you really got to get into it and she's everything's contorted like more more than two exploded now on dh that's kind of one of the last shot's way it's just that a slight changes that you made in your eyes and everything just to get it perfect it was really nee and it's so weird because that's not how I look at my everyday life but that is a portrait I will put on my wall because I kind of feel like there's a photography ids on iconic reference to a style of photography that I adore it was the only image that we reference from color into it stayed color I provided color and the gold dress we found a betty page and it's identical to listen stress even the door ears identical and that was cheap ten dollar necklace and earrings uh again was about more about their brow and the lips and the eye make up um the one image we can show is tamara's veronica lake because enomoto have the full license for it and also veronica lake doesn't have us in a state so there's no licensing around their imagery but just be very careful if you're referencing just be very careful if you you want to do your own workshop or anything like that that you don't just throw up images of hollywood stars and not for one minute think that you're showing another photographer's work and somebody owns the copyright because they deserve to be paid and they will come after you just like music uh tomorrow lucky as veronica lake the reason we referenced the images was because we wanted uh the modern photographers that that we love and they're all our friends and they're all great creative live instructors is well to become the people that we reference so we actually took images like the centre one and printed them out on a date your paper showed felix and he had three ari lights constant our lights and he just had to mould the light around to actually reference the shop so we'll do some really neat hollywood stiles right now I think it's beautiful he can talk or you can ask any questions about the different lights that he used on all five and I haven't actually showing felix six on my ipad but these are the sort of shots that I want to try and do today so I took some shots from I'm from the light because I could use him and just a strong lighting and so I'm really excited to see him like those and we've got two beautiful hollywood models so yeah and one of the first things we took away from this shoot is I when I when we were doing the prep work we referenced behind the scenes images or photographers shooting hollywood and as far as I can tell they just use the movie lights and then in the back lot just set up something like this in a corner of the studio with the soundstage and just use those movie lights there's constant lights that they were using to film the moving footage so that's kind of what we how we evolved the lighting for that and we're going to show the same thing andi what background you want to use this think this one's fine here okay so do you want to talk about the light that you used or maybe as you're sitting up beacon reference this is what we did for burkle this is just keep this reference out um should we do the time the camera's first the veronica lake okay so because we have to chase there yeah let's try it doesn't matter I have to get madeline madeline madeline sama don't meddle in wow uh yeah sorry medal is fine so she's coming in um because we have the chase right here it's the chase we don't know how tall we're going to make it work no matter what what happens how it fits so we've covered it in some black fabric to keep it simple so that you can use any color chase all right madeline have a seat and we'll mold the light around you I'm felix by the way way haven't met you before the stress fabulous amazing all right all the hollywood poses very different extension than what you see in modern posing modern closing has a lot of chin forward and down and the hollywood was always looking to the light so if you imagine you're posing is when I was doing the elizabeth taylor I was sitting slightly on an angle where the camera could see me with felix won't keep walking in france uh so I was sitting on a chair like this with my knees forty five degrees towards felix so felix was in front of me and my knees were away from him I had my hands here which penned the elbows bag which is what you saw me do with katie so that's a good slimming trick that they were doing in the six days because she's already doing it I was leaning forward like this and dropping my shoulder down to the camera but my face is like this and it seemed so unnatural doing it and then I was stuck there for about twenty minutes while felix took photos of me going more more in the eyes more in the eye and all of their poses were about looking to the light bringing the face to the light so no matter how you doing you're posing I think you just need to remember no matter what pose you get into them get them to look to the light and it gets that really hollywood old style feel to it right there's a few other things if you em sit up tall so don't lean back where the hands were just touching the back of the ottoman that's it and they're sitting up sort of so you can see it on the side with being tell bose yeah that's ago and they're sitting really like up in the fingertips almost that's it and they've got this really sort of um over exaggerated elbow in a little bit year so and sitting up call and then you know looking to the light and tipping into the light so I really love that about all of those shots okay you can talk about this um we these are ari's constance they are they have a what's called for now front I'm uh sure you actually turn this off it's a the way the glasses shaped kind of creates like a bit of a scattered light it's called for now that's all I really know about it that's all I need to know because I know how it ends up looking he's a very important thank you jon um so these get very hot now I don't know how much these are two by we I can rent them for very little most rental places have them but we're also going to show you how to do them with household lamps that I've I was in the little djamel equipment room and well I just saw this lamp and I thought why don't we use that as a as a cheap alternative so we didn't even we don't even pre plan this I just saw the light so you know people have this stuff lying around in the houses the's have this kind of show you turn one of them off and you just look at what's happening with the light there this is on there's a little dial here and it says flood and spot and it's currently on spot on when I get on flood the light gets wider and I can control how much is spilling out using these bond doors see that's so if we have the vandals completely open this is on flood which means it's a wide light and then it goes to spot which is more focused so I'm going to go halfway in between just because that's how I like it to look on both of these and I've set them up here because in the reference I saw two little lights right in the eyes coming from this side madeline dc suit suppose her in that veronica lick pose you want the veronica lake clues all right so what you need to do is put your back against here but I don't want you to lean too far back and I want you to put your knees up can I just say how great is it that her name is madeline before hollywood person we say madeline madeline madeline I don't have that accent dry thiss dress I got from rent the runway for I think it was fifty five dollars and its a designer gown so written the runway's a great resource if you're doing you know amazing folio shoots the idea of this pose is very difficult the right elbow comes back into the shot to hold her again away from the cheer and their instantly if you khun see from there and instantly creates this beautiful a place for her here to go and also for the elbows go back then it's the front knee that's up not that one so you can bring this as high as possible and then the armed swing up and over and then the chin came around now interestingly enough you can see how tall and lane meddling is but you can see in veronica leg that she has quite a big gap here so you can pull back but I looked closely at it and if you have a look at it it's airbrushed out her belly is airbrushed khan case and of course I can do that on photo shop so I did that with tamara who was also beautiful and lane and long but I still needed to pull her back through this area because that pose is not possible unless she was a foot taller and half this body weight and so I remember what it's like to retouch in the olden days before photo shop and so I could see the cut out and so what they did was they just cut it in your brush line and they just airbrushed the background color down into her belly line because no human looks like that well they just couldn't in fact the irony is look how lane susan street cleaners when we compared her to audrey audrey was obviously a double zero they still turned in her waist and you know you can tell because these women have got beautiful bodies and then you look at these starlets and there they're holding in course it's twenty four inch waist in the trim so when we complain about how much we photoshopped these days trust me there was a lot of retracting going on in the fifties a lot of retouching right so with I've got these two lights kind of where and I'm just referencing that tamar is shot and seeing where the shadows fall that's all I'm doing with this I'm kind of close aiken one of the things I'm referencing is the shadow right but lower nose here and I might move those lights over around a bit but I'm not going to do that yet because we're going to shoot and then I'll trade smothering you now that we're in concert when we should will will dim the malaga and john this one so in this time lucky shot we tried it with this for ages and then if you look there's a light on her stomach and when we did the shoot we had we spent ages trying to figure this out so now I know right away and I won't run through that process but john if you could set up the light right here what to shoot the process so that they can see how we made it improve we'll take a photo and go oh there's no light on her belly on so he would add a light and then it would just come up and it was so incredible to watch him change something because every time you change something it got closer and closer to our reference yeah okay so yeah I need that there for now john will dim the house lights on and then you can start shooting on your tether on dh john if you get me those I have some rice paper diffusion that we can put on top here also being aware that this is a very hard pose for meddling toehold so when we did this before I kind of wasn't happy with how harsh the light was so I got out of my camera bag my diffuses that I have on my lights and I just kind of taped them over or my assistance that I've used around the world wrote me and said who use to diffuse is on the way step come on it doesn't matter I don't need this you can use your bed sheet just make sure it doesn't sound fire so I'm going to do that right see when you hold that for me you're coming forward what sort of papers where do you buy it you know because it happened to you didn't I just pulled it out of the stock room it's just like all right wait a minute film stories stories they usually come maybe a one foot squares what what is it called gels cinema joel cinema it's from comes from movie world right yeah but yeah but larger camera stores along carrying yeah I mean I more clips all I did was let's find something in the stock room that I can use to soften the light down I didn't I wasn't asking for anything specific somebody right yesterday I sound more like a cave a and I was ignore it is I'm talking next to an english accent so all right let's try that and I'm relying on the tether I would we did on the other shooters well to kind of look and see how it ends of actually looking all right so we're still on that where we were with the flashes right yeah I'm just going up to three twenty I so tell me are you are you okay we're gonna go to tanks ethan I guess no one of the thirty two hundred thirty two hundreds of tongues can I just get what I know you want we could try it I can't try on her chin around to me now down to what that said not that far a girl's perfect too high too high we're gonna get exposure right first all right I don't see how I might take you exposure you shutter speed down it's too low I have a guy you know what I said earlier but I was surprised how it wall went so well the other day this is more really on my shoots than what we did earlier today where everything just magically worked that surprised me like tin dan it's a it's a lot of tweaking it's a lot of s o where what I'm probably going to do a stack these lights more on top of each other let's try that maybe just scoot your bum forward so that is a bit more roll into your back so when you softened down a little bit lower you can get that to go even more that's it stay there right where she is her faces let's so beautifully now and remembering too that you're seeing we had the tether seeing everything in black white which was absolutely incredible yeah and the other thing I say about that shoot sue we did actually I came up to you afterwards and I said I said that most of it I had no idea what I was doing I just kept making changes and hoping that it would work out on dh because we were in this fun environment that was okay you know it wasn't a commercial job that where lots was writing on it it was just left there we had a good uh huh so close good so if she yeah you see tamara had her head slightly more turned towards the light madeleine if you do that and then we'll get that light on her stomach that's the last thing is so I'm looking always at that shadow but below the nose on both of those shots we don't track the shadows below the nose and chin were what significantly matched our image is it was so crazy he chip something in the shadow was identical like felix has shadow under his chin looks just like bogeys and it's so incredible how mine matched my nose shadow matched in so did timorous a swell like remarkably identical to the lighting it took time really took time I can't stress that enough we messed around for ages to figure it out and that's okay right let's plug that in for the stomach and I think this one he saw that we had that flood and spot I think I'm going to make it a spot so it doesn't spill into kind of everything else this if you look at the reference shot there's some light on her knee some light on her hand so that spot's going to come in I think kind of from here and just give that a little bit of light in there the stomach area as soon as we saw the image the face was just leto beautifully but there was just no light bouncing off the dress and I assume as he pop this in it popped up in almost exactly the same shape like and we didn't have any idea where they put the lights it was just about him walking around and trying different lights but this would be such a great play shoot for your folio into advertise his health because everybody loved these shots it might have to come in from higher suit but let's just try but it's actually very bright on the sequence have a look dazzling close isn't it yeah this feels more balanced I'll come around this is where the fun begins for madeline because she's going to have to adjust every little part of her body to make it work suit what you open up your eyes so maybe a little bit and that's very twenty three twenty yeah go to four hundred I think if we get some those shadows look awfully dark to me but it is that what you're seeing on the screen is very contrast compared to what I'm saying if you wanna have a little yeah on we will show the final images anyway so oh okay wow we're pretty close we even have that little light how's that so what do you think beautiful I love it on the camera it looks incredible can I go back into color nico I'm sorry no I see black and white but I'd really love to go back to color just because what I'm seeing on the camera right now is really delicious yeah I'm thinking just that one thing that bothers me soos the side of her nose is too dark is too dark we just want that thing at the bottom so I'm going to create that shadow with this light at the top and this one I'm just going to tell me when you put two harry lights diagonal and step them you're making the light longer but directionally long yeah I mean I didn't even think about that when we did the that should just look at this look at this like now and changes everything stay there I just looked at the catch light in the eyes there is s o quite a lot of light bouncing around from her sparkly dress onto the black fabric and I actually retouched there on terrorism it yeah I can just chin down and she actually has her knee higher curve your back and let that sit stay there that's it don't move uh felix I need danielle continue I'll come in the side I just need you to pull her here back off here I because it just keeps coming forward chin down just to take a look a girl so when we had when we did terrorists up that's it the sequence on her shoulder were reflecting back onto her face and I was there with a sharpie coloring in sequence so they wouldn't reflect on her face okay I really love that so let's hug let's move on to an expos okay so that's what do you think it's pretty close it looks it looks close in the camera right actually like house more then veronica's yeah all right can we just try it with the wider frame to get that hand I want to see what the highlight is on get that reference so you have a lot of detail in the shadows in your in the camera okay beautiful right wow that's pretty close good should we do another post on what we figured out also is we're going to leave it like this pretty much this was a standard set up apart from the light behind like four which we do that um this tale oppose now I'm gonna go straight backwards this is what we're doing out here is getting caught this is a very big pose and all of the hollywood images that I referenced I want you to lie back hang on all of a harris scored in the sequences and the six wins and that was using the here like this which is absolutely beautiful and there's lots of different ways to pose that arm so we can put this arm up and it could be up and you know happened over and we're shooting down a little bit more for this one so let's try something like this so we're going to do our own poses no references fabulous well can you just see how the it's the styling and the light that gives it an era and that's what I love and now if she's a real hollywood star they'd be telling her extended it to the light because I don't want her face beautiful be they don't want to have to remove the nick wrinkle cause it was difficult to remove annette wrinkle you know went back in the fifties and sixties were dead attach and then printed and then painted in and it took forever and what I'm going to do is I don't want to shoot that light into a nostril so I'm going to bring this up and have it coming down from above and try to make that same shadow under the nose that's so I can't touch this thing that's why I have my assisting gloves that you saw all right has it's hot it's hot yeah okay I don't want to drop it no no that was a joke the ball to kind of see with the light collection yeah good point let's do that that's references oh I like that yeah I'm used to it all right so madeleine you're gonna have to hold this ideals is not a joke this is a just hold that in front of your face and you'll see it's just that the bottom and you'll see when it comes up on the screen while we do that and you might not see that light from behind yeah it's just those two you know the hollywood stuff it's really high key high contrast that's one of the main things you get by having this small light source so close together I can just hear you thinking victoria about how you're going to do this to tatiana just here in your thought so we're still getting that light on the stomach so so let me know if you think that we can we can change that do it with two lights stay looking down that there wow oh I can't wait to play with these huh I'm gonna play with these eyes up to me beautiful good girl don't be afraid of pushing the nick up you know it is the era they are always up towards the light it differently has more of an extension it didn't work next one's better so because when I'm not sue and I am not doing on lighting setups I'm more taking the role of the assistant and looking at the light and kind of checking what's coming up on the screen the next one that I've found that they did a lot ofthe wass um if you lift up forward and just have you here here and lie back and then put your hands down on both sides as they and then just extend the shoulder forward yeah and then looked at you and then looked down chin down to the shoulders you can pull your head off that's it and then maybe this way but kind of lying backwards and then extend up wait I'll post you from the front so yeah there's a lot of this and I feel like this is really beautiful we need to probably clean up the here on here because it saves protecting time john would you hand me some off that diffusion and some clips okay bring your chin towards me more that girl perfect and a little baby smile attempt of what's happening here I'm seeing it really hot on her stomach so I just wantto some of these have a dimmer switch so you could just turn them down I haven't seen one on this particular model so I'm just going to put this in front and that's goingto reduce the amount of light coming out of there very simple it's just going to be a touch of light now and I doubled this up because I want to cut off a lot of that light and remember the cross uh they don't crop to the top of the head and fifty so it's definitely center um another one that I saw multiple images off we can dio elizabeth is set up again how you're sitting on the edge and you can sit with your knees towards may slightly forty five degrees and put your hands back again at I need you to come towards the edge what would you do if someone that wasn't skinniest medal and maybe well I'm not and you did it to make it so it's about predicting the same bottom half back all of the poses are actually really slimming poses because they were doing it all in camera most of it in camera so everyone all the extensions forward they have the sixties era has more of my posing rules and any other photography of saying all the elbows back which what show off the hourglass the shoulders are forward all of the booties are back they always predicted forward like this with the ten forward so they've got no double chin their booties it back so they look slimmer the arms are tucked in and the others they're tucked in so they're all slimming posers and and so that's why the little starlets look tiny tiny and a normal body would just look nice and curvy while we do should we do some technical questions of the on the lights if anyone in the audience has one christina those of us who are wedding photographers and we might have a couple of video lights or something in our bag right now is that something you think we could play with and achieve a similar look get direction absolutely yeah you don't need anything fancy but I don't think anyone yeah can you talk a little bit about the paper that you're using teo defuse it meredith sledges wondering whether you could just use parchment paper from the kitchen or would that absolutely um absolutely would help um john says it would melt so don't cause a fire but I mean I put my um my diffusion cloths that I put on they do melt but I put them at the very edge off the off the bond or just kind of check to make sure it was fine every known again on dh it was fine I've melted plenty of stuff on set on dh that's really how you learn so can you describe what this is then what you're actually using right now john where we're not sure I mean we took stuff from the stockroom is he said but it's lea and roscoe both make these that's called a tough spun a fiberglass won this here is a plastic base they're used in the movie and photo industries so movie supply houses any of the large camera stores would have them they usually come in sets where they can come in rolls of it about three foot wide john would you grab the stuff way we pulled some other bits I just pulled a bunch of stuff out of have been in the kit room that looked like it could defuse those square sheets john did we have the square sheets they came off led panels yeah they're outside of okay that does and I want to show I just I'm always looking for whatever is white or gray and just will defuse that light and that's going to make it soft so you know you can tell of something will defuse the light by holding it up to a light and if you can't clearly see the light source that's gonna defuse the light really nicely so you can use pretty much anything and one more clarification question from sylvia asking if there's a light on the background and I see the third light I know that we set that up is that just getting the background on ly I actually the third light is pointing back at madeleine stomach and the band was actually closed on the backdrop so it's not letting all this stuff right on the background is coming from these two lights spilling onto giving that but I want to show you this because to make that point again I this is from a some sort of led light it's a scream that they use a diffuser that they use for that I pulled that out off the bin because I thought we could use this so it wasn't anything specific that I was looking for other than just what could diffuse the light thank you john that was my lighting test oh wow so you can work from that lighting test pretty cool what do you think so too much head oh okay just want to use her scooter back yeah yeah that's the easiest well you have to do is slide it back with me oh I see okay sorry I will I will adjust the lights for you because she's coming closer I'll move these down and we're going to get less of a shadow in fact if you can see that on the camera what happens as I move this down soon as I move this down that shadow just changes on her face and that's what's nice about working with constant lights you can see exactly so so just tell me when you want where you want the shadow on the face on the nose okay that yeah okay still looks quite strong little just soften your eyes and lips head to go just a touch I'll bring this one down too how's that look yeah that's beautiful they usually have that dark shadow on the on the nose yeah and it's not so dark and my camera totally differently dark over here sorry hey soon felix could you confirm whether you still have the nd filter on there now we don't know no took the nd filter off we only have the indie filter on when there's too much light because that takes the neutral density add to neutral density which takes stopped down so we can have ellen's wide open yeah okay and that was the question the audience constant light yeah I mean you can use it if you could get some constant lights that went hot like this you could use it with all your other modifies just like you would have stroked no I'm really big pose that they did a lot in the hollywood shots too with this one I want you to lean back with your front elbow so keep your bum forward and then turn your body more side on night more side onto the camera sorry and then they did a lot of leaning back on cheers yes and I feel like again it was always reclining they were either lying reclining they were never standing up and if they were they were standing or ford in elbows back and like like that audrey happened so twisted actually yeah she is she's ex sleep a hip one way in and I'm one way and another one this way that she would have had to hold that so this one is common so it's about leaning back but holding there so you need to actually turn your body because your side on that a little bit more you can bring your other arm back like they they literally were like this boobs up chin up you know let's show what happens when we don't have that light on at the back just in terms of getting a really high key image I kind of think that they did this really really quickly in in this maybe give me collapse through here a little bit more and then turn up to the light they weren't quite got it yet what do you think so because they were during hollywood starlets they were just shooting for two minutes at a time or something when they come out of hand make up and then going on set and quite often they had really ugly white curtains in the background like they just round them over something they're quite ugly background no not many of them were shot on beautiful background when you they didn't have all the fun back then we'll soon felix they're a couple folks who are asking why you aren't lighting the hair stuff dies is that why you're making just because you don't like it or is it um why don't you like the way we didn't need to say this you have a little bit more detail and jay I have here detail but that contract doesn't on there yeah it is spilling over onto the head if you folks at home you can see it in the camera if you can see their head on the camera you can see it in soo's camera me on the video if you see in the lifestream you'll still be able to see into his camera that's how much detail she's getting I just turned her into the light for the shot because I didn't want to turn her away from it okay it looks a little awkward so just relax your hand and actually use it like elaine that's it and then bring you to know I'm not that high halfway down good girl all right the other one sit forward lots of over the shoulder lots of sex kitten said a very coy but sixty albert beck to show the breast line this part about this pose that you get all of the above and here on the arm and shoulder I'm going to do something silly here for the first time I'm just going to use ipad anything I just thought what what could I find onto your outsides of your thighs both of them if she had her hands on her lap I will see them in the image if I have a hold her five she can still sit her albert and her shoulder where we want it and I'm using the silverback to reflect light onto her hair that's a little thing I just and lift back with your chin good girl stay there it's a little bit too much shadow on her face that felix I either need to ten here I'm going to use the ipod or you're like now you're in my shop you're in my shop get out of my shop fighting felix I think it's pretty much the most expensive reflector yeah technically you chose a really expensive reflect I just it was just the closest thing I actually think it's a great point to make when people are asking about like what is the model of this what is the type that you're using for this sometimes you just grabbed what happens to be there well and they work the sixteen gigabyte ipad too so that's the only one that has the silver back in this exact shade not there was quite a lot of this going on now originally when felix let the shot he shot it we shall it on a big soft box actually it was the only image which is broke that we shot with the soft box I feel like the area you're going to achieve the same if you bring up that yeah it was soft books right above down on on brooke right yeah so just turned into the light just let's ago and that some folks actually created quite a hard light that's you know I'm always up to me saying that's what happens with soft boxes even though the kind of me it's named in a way I think with brooke I show you something I did with that marina did rick I'm shocked because it was actually a beautiful shop but it was really intriguing because she has unspeakably long hands and arms and that sounds like she really tall or did they extend them and then when I started to shoot it she's looking up I wanted to match it so she had to be sitting directly towards me so my first instinct was to have a chin up and shoot down and I noticed a lot of the hollywood looks was shooting down cause more slimming techniques right and what we did with brooke was I noticed it wasn't quite right so I got her into position the hands go back just a little bit like this until that's ago she's cutting her face and I actually went like this put your chin down towards me now stop and then I found the angle so what I did was I went like this and then I found the right angle which is there and then I tried this I'm going to shoot really low and I want you to start lifting your head up and all of those looked hollywood so that was shooting lower and having her slowly raised her chin up into the image like there and then of course the tilt and the touch a little bit high with one hand but open it out now turn your body into the light good girl so this one comes up a little higher and in here so I don't want to see your palm so halfway and pull it away from your face never have hands on the face okay it doesn't make sense cup always so if they can't quite get it because you can't describe it very well just help them move their hand stuff beautiful and again I'm going to go down here well actually I'll go here now bring your chin down and your hands down that took no no no I just mean lower and that's it that's it they're slowly lifted him up and again get them to do that and it's really quite remarkable what you start to see is in there posing you might not get it right but just keep giving them to lead up into the light and you just you just see it and then while she's rising you try rising so try staying low and getting her rise in increments and then try rising with her and then try getting her to stay up and you just rise above here and maybe take five or six shots until you get the angle that you love looks incredible