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Introduction to Senior Photography

Welcome to creative live everyone I am south san kata and again we are going to talk about high school senior photography beginning to end so let me tell you a little story about how I even got into senior photography we had done a family shoot and on our family shoot we had a mom called me and she said my daughter wants high school senior pictures we had no idea what high school senior pictures were at the time so, you know, in my head high school senior pictures were like leaning on the styrofoam year the rose holding the rose and I started going into panic, right? I mean, I talked to my wife like we don't have star for years we don't have any fake ivy that we can put up behind me so you know what we do? And it was at that moment in time I realized I'm just gonna run it like I would run a fashion shoot and we ran it that way and we've never looked back. And if you think about it, I'm going back four and a half, five years ago well, back then in the midwest super super conservative, y...

ou know, so you're trying to sell this high fashion shoot in a very conservative part of the country, but it was that moment in time I realized I loved working with high school seniors and I never looked back so we've been going forward ever since running a true fashion shoots so whether you've shot seniors or you're thinking about shooting seniors, you need to be high energy this is me all the time s o they only they let mito one cup of coffee a day because it would be bad for everyone if we didn't so you gotta have that energy level you got to keep these kids excited, engaged or else you are not going to be the cool kid, right? And you don't want to be grandpa to these kids, but you should also you also don't want to be fake no, you don't want to try being a fifty year old, you know, forty five year old trying to be a fifteen year old right that's not gonna work either that this is weird, right? So we don't want to do that let's get going here so overview, what are we gonna talk about today? What are we gonna cover? Literally everything so it's gonna be an intense day? We're gonna be covering a lot of information and you guys out there, you're gonna have a lot of questions so we'll talk a little bit about my background some of you, we've got a broad audience all over the world you don't know our background you don't know where we came from what we started with and where we are today, so I'll cover that briefly goals and objectives for today. Well, define the senior market and how to get started on and make no mistake, even if you're already into senior photography there's still a lot of information here you gonna be able to process and apply to your business? We'll talk about the ambassador program high level an ambassador program allows you tow have these high school seniors, active sales reps in the high schools and that's ultimately what you want, they become your mobile sales force so that you're not selling direct to the kids. There's peer to peer and make no mistake on the value of peer to peer networking that is very, very important. We'll talk about your competition, I hear it every place I go right sound, shooting and burning, they're giving away the cds they're giving away sessions for forty nine dollars doesn't matter in our local market. The average senior spends over two thousand dollars. I'm in a market that is saturated. I've got people less than a mile from my studio for ninety nine dollars, they will shoot your session, spend two to three hours with you and hand you a dvd or cd off fully edited images. That's insanity I don't know why you would do that for ninety nine dollars with all that time involved, you might as well go work in a retail shop that is not good business that's not why we got into business right? So we have to think like entrepreneurs here we'll talk about marketing to see seniors this demographic is in fact the most finicky demographic you'll ever meet okay? They're being inundated with magazine ads, tv ads, the mtv generation whatever you want to call it we've got to find a way to tap into those kids and the only way you're going to tap into him is getting involved at their level. All right? So we've got we've got a utilize social media right? So you said when we started off I sent my last tweet I'm not tweeting again I'm gonna convince you by the end you need to start tweeting because that's what these kids are doing you got to get involved in twitter, facebook you have a facebook site okay, well that's good yeah do you post stuff? Do it okay, well that's even better so we'll talk more about that direct mail so we use direct mail to get it these kids and everyone thinks direct mail's dead it's not dead especially for this niche if it were weddings families maybe I'd agree with you but for high school seniors we use direct mail very, very successfully so we'll talk more about that uh your referral programs how are you getting in new business on then? Of course, branding right branding is very important, especially this demographic right? If we buy into the fact that these kids are being hit with magazines television now you're going to come up with some logo that looks like it was created, you know? You know, with word art like that's not gonna work guys, right? They are they are brand savvy brand aware so your branding has to be cool it has to evoke that emotion, so invest three four, five hundred dollars it takes to get your brandon logo together. We'll talk about shooting seniors briefly today tomorrow we're actually going to photograph these high school seniors, but we'll talk about shooting seniors and understanding the experience. What do they want? What are they looking for? This is very important to understand the psyche of the senior before you even walk into the session, right? They don't want this that's not what they're looking for, they don't want the rose, they don't want this spot color all that stuff it's it's dead man stopped doing it stopped making I see photographers all over the place I go to their websites and they're like, oh, look at this cool shot and it's like okay they're blouses red but then everything else is black and white yeah not cool that's not what they're looking for stop doing it I understand your seniors what they're looking for destination shoots this is something we're really big on will we just came back from new york city our studios based in o'fallon illinois but we went up to new york city and we had our seniors from st louis fly to new york and we did a fashion shoot up their form in the middle of new york city do you think that senior after traveling with us to another senior another city is going to not purchase pictures it's not possible okay it's like fish in a barrel at that point you've made it too easy right we'll talk about how to sell the seniors again we're going to go in death on day three on sales process but I want you to understand how the sales process is going to work I want you to be mentally prepared for selling because right now you're just posting your images online you're making a big mistake you can't post your images online and expect the sails to come in and the reason for that is simple they have to be able to see touch feel the product okay so I'm just looking at a thumbnail online and you're trying to sell me a sixteen by twenty four what's the first thing that happens with every client we have it happened in our own studio when they come in we don't need anything that big right in the second they start mentally saying they don't need anything that big they've talked himself out of the purchase you're not there to deal with what I calls an objection to understand that when the client says I can't do something because of x that's an objection they're raising their hand they're going I can't get past this roadblock think about yourselves as consumers you do the same thing right? You'll walk into a store maybe your your spouse, your boyfriend, whatever the case is yourself talk yourself out of a purchase right you've raised an objection well, now I'm here with you and I go no sixteen by twenty four is not that big guys. Now if you look over here at this wall I've got a, uh sixteen by twenty for something in that range on on this wall can you imagine if we put in eight by ten on this one would look ridiculous? And then I grab a sheet of paper and I put it on the wall and show them how ridiculous that would look see touch feel I'm there to handle that objection because once they see that tiny little eight by ten that looks like a postage stamp they get it and now they move pass an objection so that's very important to understand we're actually gonna work on putting a business plan together for you guys out there. So you guys got to be ready, taken notes, pen and paper because the business plan is very important. Where do you want to be? How much money do you want to make per year? I think. That's fair question. And I firmly believe in this industry if you want to make one hundred thousand dollars, two hundred thousand dollars, half million dollars, all possible. I do not think that is impossible by any means, but if we say I want to make two hundred thousand dollars yourself, the next question is, how are you gonna get there? Ok, how many seniors do you have to shoot? How many weddings do you have to shoot to get there? You have to know that answer that's where we start putting that business plan together, right? So, yeah, I want to do fifty weddings a year at ten thousand dollars a wedding that's great that'll get you half a million dollars. You see what I'm saying? Or if you're only charging a thousand dollars for a wedding and you want to do a half million dollar business that's a lot of weddings, okay, so I don't want to shoot five hundred weddings a year, so we have to work through all that then we will wrap up doing pricing and packaging so we will build packages and your ala carte prices from scratch today I think that's very valuable when I was starting out, I didn't have that option pricing and packaging was always very taboo no one wanted to talk about it, right it's like no, I can't tell you how much I'm charging because if you know how much I'm charging, then you could you could steal my business, you don't get it, then I can't steal your business, you can't just cause you're charging the same amount of money is me that's, not what I'm selling I'm not selling a price list, I'm selling an experience and we'll talk about that over and over again so scheduled today. We highlighted this a little bit all about business and concepts saturday, shooting, lighting, posing I want you guys to really pay attention out there on how I'm interacting with the senior, how imposing them, how I'm working with them, I've never met either of these kids, so it's not like I haven't any experience with them whatsoever they're coming in cold, and what you'll find is when you're dealing with these kids, they could be just camera where they get in front of the camera, they're superstars right? And then you find that they'll get in front of the camera and they freeze they don't know what to do they don't know what looks good right? And you've got to build that confidence bill that report with them and so if you're going to be a senior photographer, the one thing you don't want to do is just stick them out there and let them figure it out for themselves hey, I've worked with the tartars where they're like hey just go do something to stand by that wall do something be fun have fun the hell does that mean right can't just beef on half on tom what to do? Tom, what looks good tell mewhat looks bad it's very important that you're telling them now that looks bad right? So one of the things and we will see me work come tomorrow actually coached them so a lot of kids will do this they'll push that hip in the camera they will gain ten pounds no on camera by doing this okay so I don't want to gain ten pounds on camera some slide away right? You teach him how to pop that hip to the rear I'm building confidence I'm teaching these kids how to look like models howto feel like madi I'm their coach I'm their trusted advisor and so that's very important sunday workflow what image is in my editing how my editing what kind of effects am I putting on to ensure I get big print sales and then, of course, you'll see the live sale. So all that being said let's, get into this, huh? Background? I am a corporate baby I came out of I went to business school, so I was not I didn't graduate film school. I don't have my film degree and I'm okay with that, right? So I love, you know nothing against people went to school for photography that's that's great, but I didn't so don't believe for a minute you have to go to school for photography, to be a successful business person, to be successful in this industry you don't now, with that being said, I don't want you to believe for one single minute that we don't have to master our craft, we have to master our craft. Why there's all these new shooters coming into the industry and there's nothing wrong with them? We want them to come into our industry because the more successful our industry is right, it's better for us that allows us to stand out from the crowd, but as they come into the industry, if we are not doing things to separate ourselves lighting. But you say lighting never ceases to amaze me how many new photography I work with, and they have no clue how to work off camera flash. How's that possible that's one of your tools in your toolbox you have to know this stuff so we've got all these new people coming in right they picked up a camera now you're a professional photographer that's not how it works okay so you have to be able to yes natural light is great if it's available it's not always available okay um tomorrow we're going to go on the roof here we're going to put our model in the worst possible lighting scenario no shade ah hard light on her face how are we going overcome that challenge oh, I know how we're going to overcome its out we're going to shoot it six o'clock that's the only time we shoot the golden hour yeah got news for you guys I do three to four photo shoots that day and so there's no way if you want to make money in this industry that you're shooting once a day at six pm with all this beautiful light just everywhere that doesn't exist if you want to make money you've got to be able to shoot in the worst lighting scenarios in the best lining scenario so we've got to make that investment but I work for microsoft and procter and gamble so too big fortune companies and the one thing they ingrained to me is sales sales sales microsoft uh spent about thirty to forty thousand dollars a year in training me making sure I understood sales process is making sure I understood how to become the trusted advisor and some of you have seen me before you know that term what the trusted advisor is, what it means but ultimately I don't want to be the sales person I want to be the person that they trust that khun guide them if I tell them this picture looks good is a sixteen by twenty four, then it better believe me, all right, not feel like I'm trying to sell them a sixteen by twenty four and make no mistake, I have talked clients down off the ledge I've had clients come in and they picked the worst possible picture and they're like, well, we're going to do a thirty by forty right in the center I'm like no guys, this is ah, this is not what you want to look at for the rest of your life. How about this? How about going a little bit smaller? Where you putting this? So now rather than come across that sales person, I'm the trusted advisor and so there's a book I want you guys all teo consider picking up. I'm really big on reading business books one is called the trusted advisor ok, so go out there, look it up that's what it should be required reading the other one oddly enough, uh is the starbucks experience okay? And the reason that book is so impactful is I used that is the foundation for my customer experience within my own brand and what they'll talk about in the starbucks experience in any business like that it's got nothing to do with starbucks in jena but when you walk into a starbucks if you go how many of you here actually going to starbucks drink starbucks ok do you go to the same one all the time? Brown you're home stuff like that not going no you just go any starbucks in any way yeah you don't care no loyalty whatsoever yeah um but as you go into the starbucks what you'll find is that over time they'll remember your name and drink bingo that's important do you know that's not just because you got the lucky girl at starbucks that's how they're trained they're trained to know your drink and your name why foundational what's the one word everyone loves hearing their name I love hearing my name so when I go into that starbucks they're like hey sal, good morning how you doing? The regular do that there's a sense of community now there's a sense of belonging if I goto another starbucks I feel like I'm cheating on him right that's brilliant that is brilliant marketing that's where you want to get to so when you walk into that starbucks true story the noise that goes on in that store from the grinding machine eyes tied to the brain so they're going back about five six years ago maybe they started looking for quieter machines to grind the coffee because they found they thought it was too disturbing to all the people in there that we're drinking listening to music and things like that they found that as soon as they switched to the quieter machines I mean you're talking about multi multi million dollar investment soon as they switch to the quieter machines seeing source sales dropped true story same store sales dropped because of the quieter machine they were jacking with the experience so then what they do they put the noisier machines back in so we have to understand this is a very good book to pick up and read on and start thinking about how it's going to impact your business because again it's all about the experience so I picked up my camera at seventeen years old it was my first foray might my aunt had a darkroom in the basement I photographed my first wedding at about eighteen I was a second shooter on a wedding and I hated every minute of it by the way weddings back in the nineteen eighties were not exciting at all right? Everything was super traditional you know when I shot the same way at eighteen as I do now like I wanted to lay down in the street um do all sorts of cool stuff, and so that is not possible back in the nineteen eighties, so I got away from it very outgoing personality and from their business school. And so my studio's based in st louis, we did a short stint at glamour shots, right? So I'm not proud of that, but you know, it is what it is been shooting is a hobbyist since I was seventeen today we have salvador sent khanna photography studio c and salvador sink out of film, so we do full on video for clients. Why? Because I firmly believe that's where the future is going, they want to be part of video it's a multi media experience today, right? And that's why, when we launch that magazine that we just launch it's got video embedded in it because I firmly believe video is the future storytelling we're in the storytelling business and I think what it means to be a professional photographer in the next five years eyes going to change drastically because it's all about telling this story and I don't care if you're using a chisel and a hammer to tell the story, but it's all about telling that story two thousand seven first years a pro fifty thousand dollars gross sales for our studio, my wife and I were horrified, mostly my wife was horrified all right, so she got the letter. I quit my job. I'm like I'm gonna pursue my passion our first years a pro. We did fifty thousand in sales and you guys can see some of this. I don't want to spend too much time. But last year our studio crossed the million dollar mark that's impressive. Four years in a down economy. We grew that business from fifty thousand dollars in sales to a million dollars in sales. And that has nothing to do, by the way, on this speaker side of things that is solely on photography. We did over fifty weddings last year. Okay? The average wedding spent ten thousand dollars, right? There are wedding business is a half million dollar business, so if I could do it in a down economy, all of you can do it. And that's, the key point here, this is not impossible. It's not rocket science. It's just basic business principles new this year. We just want our first high school contract, so that was very exciting and we'll talk about going after high schools, but we want our first high school contract, so four years ago, we couldn't even get our name in the high school. Today we're now shooting the entire high school questions about my background popping up in there. Keep you guys on your toast way have a question in the audience I have one question about your contract because I think contracts are different across the country and when you just said that there are some schools across the country that force you to take the yearbook picture from a specific photographer and that photographer has to shoot everybody and that's what you're talking about that I'm talking about because in my area doesn't exist okay yeah we will we just gotta first sports contract me in my studio mate courtney kelly love you courtney but uh so I think that it's that that doesn't exist everywhere so I some people may not know what you're talking about a school contract for those of you who don't know a school contract gives you the exclusive right to photograph that high school whether it's yearbook pictures sports pictures on dh submit those pictures to yearbook now my area we have a hybrid so some schools have absolute contract some schools air the wild wild west so we'll talk more about that I do have a shot out from lindsey adler tell lindsay she says hi guys till sal in the entire team I said hi and you all look hot awesome miss you all and uh we should have a giant creative live bashes yes yeah one giant creative live party could shoot out a creative life shoot out that could be fun I love you all right, so goals and objectives be a sponge absorbed this information find ways to apply it to your own business don't tell me how it won't work in your business it will work okay, you just got to go after it there are cool seniors everywhere that's kind of my philosophy you know? So again when I go to new york and talk about this topic new yorkers are like no, we don't do high school senior pictures we do the yearbook picture capping gown whatever the case may be really uh fashion center new york city where the models go where all the fashion labels go to do their photo shoots and apparently seventeen year olds in new york don't want to be cool I don't believe it for a minute I think they don't know any better I think they don't know it exists so if I'm in the northeast or your let's put it this way if you're in any part of the market that doesn't offer high school senior pictures ugh, I'm very jealous of you because you have the opportunity to set the tone, set the pace and create the demand don't wait for the demand do you want to be a first mover or last mover get out there, go after it and educate seniors that this is in fact what you want and what you need that's what it's all about right? Of course ask questions and then walk away put a plan in place so when you're done watching today, what are the top three things for things you're gonna incorporate into your business tomorrow? Not next week not all that sounds kind of cool, you know, maybe I'll get to it later tomorrow. What can you do tomorrow to change your business? And so let's define the senior market? Typical objections again, we don't have a senior market or the big change dominate in the schools. Of course the big chains dominate in the school they come in, they win those contracts and everyone right? We all have ah there's different contract schools in every part of the country but at the end of the day that's on ly for the yearbook picture you understand the difference, right? The copping down yearbook picture that's the picture that ends up in the actual yearbook but for these kids to go and have a fashion shoot a model shoot that's, they can go anywhere, so I don't care if I get that cap and gown picture that's not what I'm looking for that's not where the money's made the money is made on like the images you're seeing pop up on the screen is giving those kids that fashion experience that's where the money's made notice I said that word again experience because that's, what it's all about you can't put a price tag on that you can't put a price tag on taking a kid into an open field you can't put a price tag on taking that kid up into the middle of new york city standing in the middle of st is cabs with whizzing by getting these amazing pictures that are once in a lifetime, parents are willing to spend money for that and so let's look at some of the numbers as we understand the opportunity, right? We're all business people, we don't just dive headfirst into an opportunity we have to understand. What do the numbers look like? So income over two hundred fifty thousand dollars household income over two hundred fifty thousand dollars? I think those air people who can afford our services would we all agree if you've got a household income over to fifty, you've got what I call discretionary income you have money to spend on whatever the hell you want to spend it on living in a metro area with a senior in the home new york city twenty seven thousand homes meet that criteria twenty seven thousand home so if you're in new york city there's twenty seven thousand homes that make over a quarter million dollars I understand it's expensive to live up in new york but there's still twenty seven thousand homes with a senior in the house how many do we need to go after to make money? If the average sale, which are average studio sale, high school senior spends almost two thousand dollars in our studio, if I can get fifty seniors, would that change your business just fifty out of twenty seven thousand? I think you guys can do it. I think there's an opportunity there. Chicago twelve thousand homes san francisco eight thousand st louis for thousand homes in st louis there's. Only four thousand homes that meet that criteria. And our average senior spends over two thousand dollars. So I want you understand, I'm going after a much smaller piece of the pie. Then you are in different parts of the country. Does everybody understand defining the market? Are there questions about that? I could see people not understanding. Because once you understand the size of the opportunity now, you understand you could make a business decision. Where do you go to get this? Research for those demographics from? Yeah, there's. A couple of sites. One is info. Yusa. So if you want to run this demographic information, I highly recommend you check out a site called info yusa. Now, for our international, you're going to have to find something different info yusa, obviously eyes only going to be united states so but find those demographics they exist everywhere that will give you a list and it's not a uh do all end all but it gives you a good idea of what you're looking at in your area it's a good question we have anything else people were asking several people were asking about the information so good cover all right, so at the end of the day you've got to be a leader regardless of your market buck the trend don't wait for someone else we talked about this already to be a first mover okay? You take the lead, you grab the bull by the horns and you create the demand think about this I started for five years ago for five years ago in st louis fashion photography parents would be like what? I don't get it. What do you mean why is she standing in the middle of the street? Why she in an alley? Why buy a chain link fence? They don't get it right there like can we just get a big backdrop? One mom brought in mom brought in her senior picture from the nineteen seventies and wanted me to recreate that for her daughter dude I kid you not it was a white pillow I think was back in the days when they would put like gasoline over the lens do you know to get that nice glow and and she was like this and she's like, can you recreate that for my daughter? I'm like no, I don't even know how to say it without I wanted to be like this is the ugliest thing I've ever seen in my life, right? But I couldn't say that that would be bad s o I'm like mom, I don't even have a pillow to put to do this for your daughter she's like, oh, but I brought a pillow in the car, so I had to take this picture. I'm like mom, I will do this one picture for you, but after that your daughter's mind, we're going to do my my thing, so we got that. What do you think the mom bought that picture sixteen by twenty four that's what mom bought right? But that was it early on in my career, before we truly established our brand in our style and so you guys are going to face that challenge and defining your brand to finding your style. We'll talk more about that, but understanding that you can't make everyone happy, you've got to be true to yourself for your brand, I think that's very, very important, but again create your market find those school kids who get it on, then understand it's about the experience that you're offering them, but let's talk about why seniors first and foremost it's recession proof every year there's a new crop of high school seniors right there graduating every year until unless we got a bunch of dumb dumbs they're there hopefully there's still graduating so hopefully you're not living in a dum dum state so there's probably a south quote right there we'll throw it out there south said dumb dumb but I'm begging you let me give you guys a new quote what I call dds dum dum syndrome so internally we use that I digress why seniors first and foremost recession proof every year new crop of seniors diversification okay I don't want to get my business on weddings yes every year there's a new crop of weddings right? Sometimes to esso we've had clients that are coming back in for their second wedding is a great business right? You'd be like, you know, buy to get your third free I don't I don't know this is a new business model will do a whole nother creative live session on but it gives us great diversification in our business. So if seniors slow down I goto weddings if wedding slow down I can ramp up on seniors writes every year there's a new crop it's no accident by the way that we've bet our business and grown our business in the middle of a recession using seniors and weddings because why think about those families those kids how many of you out here have teenage daughters one two ok, what do you what do you do for them? You will give them the best of everything. So for those of you out there who have seniors in your household, you understand what I'm talking about? Only the best for my daughter. Only the best cleats on ly the best training camps on ly the best this only about only the best photography I only want you to have the best photography that's the key that's what I'm looking for is that parent so that's why I'm willing to charge a little bit more on understanding that that part of it's recession proof brides weddings is their big day and in their mind, it's the only time that it could happen, right? So they're willing to spend a little bit more on photography that's my client, those of the people I'm going after, um seniors make future brides these kids, you know, they're eight, seventeen, eighteen years old there now exposed to our studio, they've had a great experience thes kids are going to turn around and get married right at some point, maybe it's four, five, six years from now that's ok, but they're exposed to our studio exposed to our brand, and they're going to be ready to when they get married to come on into our studio, future families eventually right we all know the cycle of life we've all heard that right? You shoot the baby shoot the family shoot the senior you shoot the wedding that's great but by the time my baby clients are ready to get married I think we can all agree will be dead right so that's ah that's not who I'm looking to go after instead I want to hijack this process right in the middle I want to go right after the high school senior who will then get married in my lifetime but think about this in between being a senior and getting married what can I offer them family portrait so every senior who comes into our studio we offer a free family session too it's a no brainer why is it a no brainer? Some of you out there pride freaking out right now free session did he say free? Oh, I thought free was a dirty word no it's not a dirty word okay, call whatever you want every business in the world does free you might call it something different corporate corporations call it seeding s e d I n g it's called seeding what does that mean? Um I'm making my money on the session fee I sure hope not guys if you're making your money on the session for you, you're missing the boat and so let's look to corporate to to see that what I'm telling you is not a bunch of you know gibberish here and by the way all of you out there I hope you understand we run an active studio last year I personally photographed fifty weddings last year one hundred twenty five seniors and so what I'm giving you this information okay it's not theoretical it's factual thes air the things were actually doing so it's come back to this this seating concept um printers we all have crater's right some of us do maybe some of us don't you know they don't make the money on the printer they're basically giving you the printer at cost they make the money on the ink that's where they're making their money raisers razor cos they don't make their money on the actual razor they make their money on the replacement blades so same concept they know that if they could get that blade into your that razor into your hand that printer into your hand you're locked into buying there ink buying their blades I'm going to see new with the session fee I'm gonna give you that session fee free why you're already pre qualified they've already come into my studio they've already worked with us they know what we're all about so they're pre qualified in a sense so if I got a family that's already spent two thousand dollars on their daughter as a senior you think they're going to come back in and buy an eight by ten for the family portrait? There's no way a family portrait haas to be bigger than the senior portrait has to be no one's going to do that. So again, this is a calculated risk on my end and one that is paid off quite well for us. We'll only do anywhere from twenty five to forty families a year, but those families that come in on average spent close to three thousand in our studio because their pre qualified you with me, I wouldn't recommend doing free to everyone out there that would be disastrous right now, you're now you're running a totally different business model. Questions have a question from a cowgirl, jessie, um, and several other folks in terms of being a leader, our college seniors, a good market to go after that's interesting college seniors, you face all sorts of other challenges. I don't know that you're going to convince a college senior to be a a fashion model for a day, right there, get coaching years, they're going through different parts of their life, different things are important, they're getting ready to get a job there, getting ready to graduate college, I would not target college seniors, although we have had college seniors who had horrible high school senior pictures come through our studio, but I think that's a much smaller niche, so I wouldn't grow my business after that that's going question from sam cocks and t floyd, who would both like to know? Is the senior market quite seasonal? Is that why you do weddings? Because you're filling in for those? Yes, the senior market can be extremely seasonal for us in our local market. I think every mark it's different most of them are happening between may in september because one september hits, they go back to school, yearbook photos are due at, you know, yearbook, so that yearbook deadline is going to dictate the seasonality of what you're doing. But if you go down south like texas florida, they're not shooting senior pictures in july there shooting senior pictures in january february when it's cooler so actually, with my wife and I, she is from houston, we'll do our normal portrait business locally from may through september, and then in january and february, when we go down of his own family will block out a week down in texas and just knock out senior's down there, so it's allowed us to diversify there is well, okay, maybe one more from a guest in the chat room do you on lee market to senior girls, and what about the boys? Yeah, that's a question that that always comes up no matter where matt. Do I only market to the girls? Yes, I only market to the girls, boys suck. So it's just reality. You know, boys, I was a high school athlete and you would never in a million years get me to walk into my friends and be like, hey, dude, check out my pictures like, you know, don't I look cool? Like I would never do that that's, not that's, not cool at all, so the girls know they get crazy, right thinking, oh, my god, dicky looks a bit like so it's that that's what you want, that's, the response you want. And so, yes, I'm market specifically at girls, but I will admit we get man maybe ten percent, fifteen percent of our business willbe boys who come to us because they are kind of metro sexual, you know, they're they're into their look and fashion, and I love working with those boys but more than not the girls or the way to go.