Lessons

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Advertising and PR

So where are we, where we've been, where we're going, right? Let's ended up today. So first day one, we did all that strategy stuff that what I call the growth foundation kind of getting yourself ready and, you know, you can't is this is like monopoly, right? You can't really you know, you can't start collecting and building those houses until you pass go that that first time around, right? So really that's that's to me, that's, the essence of a system is that it kind of has to be built and operated in a very specific way. And so yesterday, we did all the total online present stuff and think a couple people started saying it was, you know, it was a pretty chewy day there was really a lot covered, probably too much covered. A lot of my intent yesterday was was too introduce you in some ways to some concepts that you are going to have to get better at. You're going to have to learn you're gonna have to go out there on your own on drily come to an understanding of how they condemn if it's...

your business. Andi, I think that that's, you know, that's true that's, probably the greatest. Truth of owning your own business is that it is life long learning that has to go on really is part of it this program in a way that building the system never ends you know sometimes I hesitate to say that because you know people maybe maybe see there's a depressing thing but once you build the system really then it's a matter of like a lot of systems you go in there and you looking to see can I turn this dial this way and that dial that way to really tweak it and ratchet it up so marketing is not an event it's not even a department anymore really it's just something that really has to be the dna of how you think in terms of growing your business and it's in every day it's in every week it's in every month in fact we're going to end up today talking about some routines that you have to establish so that it becomes really ah have it for you so seven steps back up here again you can see we're down yesterday we were right in the middle of it in the middle of this course today we're going to cover lead generation we're going to cover selling or lead conversion and then we're going to try to come up with how we wrap all this together how do we get all of this done? Anybody really looking forward to that last session all right? Lead sales and planning one of the things the concepts that I've been promoting for years is that there is no one way to generate leads in fact what you need to be thinking in terms of is multiple ways something I've called the lead generation trio and for me what that involves is some amount of advertising some amount of a focus on public relations and weaken for small business that's a pretty broad terms so we're going to talk about where I think some of your highest payoff efforts are in the category of pr and then building a very systematic approach to referral generation we're going to cover some very specific tactics we're going to cover one of my favorite things that I mentioned it several several times during the course of this cover several days that I have a very specific and unique approach to building and working with a strategic partner team andi I think for many of you that could be a tremendous way for you to generate leads that that you're not even thinking about today I'm also going to cover lead generation by getting up and doing something like I'm doing right here getting to a podium or on a stage or in some way shape or form in front of a group of prospects it's really one of my favorites because you know we talked about in day one the marketing hourglass that idea of no like trust try by what I love about speaking is in some cases, you could put all of those steps in one thirty minute session. In fact, I have I've had people that were invited to an event, they got to hear me speak and thought they liked what they heard. They really liked my approach that it was very practical and that actually gave them a level of trust in a way I talked about the system, so they were kind of trying it, they were seeing, you know, everything was like a sales call almost right they've got to try what it was going to do on day at the end of it, I made him an offer that they thought was was something they wanted to do right that moment, so imagine we've still done the same thing we've still educated, we've still made sure that they know you know what our unique property value proposition is and why they should expect to pay a premium to work with us, but we've done it. We've we've compressed it all into in some cases of thirty to forty five minute segment, and I think that's just a beautiful thing when you could do that go through all of those stages in the same way, but in the same day as well, so let's talk about advertising. In many cases, you know, small business owners back away from advertising because, after all, it is the one form of lead generation where somebody is probably going to say, sure, here's, how much, right? You have to write a check or you have to give him a credit card or you have to open an ad words account, right? So it is the one thing that that can cost money, and quite frankly, you earn every other form of lead generation as well. Be a pr referral generation. So it's not like they're free, but probably nobody's going to ask you to write a check. Okay, so that's the one that's really easy to kind of push back on, but here's my take, if we agree that in order for somebody in many cases to know, like and trust you, it really requires a combination of them seeing you in various places, hearing somebody else talk about you a friend saying, oh, yeah, you've got to try them. It's actually, not any one of those things. In many cases, that actually makes somebody decide to make the purchase or visit your side or engage you it's usually the collection of those things that adds up, how many times have you seen an ad for something and you thought that looks interesting, you know? And then a friend on facebook says, oh, this is the greatest thing in the world, you know, I just had this great experience at this salon, blah, blah, blah, and you think, ok, now I'm sold right? And in many cases, even if we don't register it consciously, in many cases it is that collection in fact, I can't tell you how many times I have over the years I've gotten some nice press in the paper, and one of my existing clients will see it and call me up and say, you know, I've been thinking about telling you about these other two people that you should be working with and so that that pr within existing client actually generated referrals, so in some cases, you can't always know how it's going to happen. In fact, in a lot of cases, you know, we a lot of times will asked on the on that signature brand daughter we asked, you know, how did you hear about us really a great practice? You should always be asking that question any chance you can because you want to start monitoring that, measuring that a lot of times people can't remember. They just know that they saw this they heard that the time was right, but they can't really remember what it is that made them act, and I think that that keeping that in the back of your mind hopefully all kind of help cement this idea that you've got to be looking for multiple avenues to touch them. The one thing I like about advertising is that it is really the one form of lead generation that you have the most control over, so what I mean by that is if you have a new product, if it's a certain holiday or a certain sale period, you can buy advertising that you know, will be delivered to the audience that you asked it to be delivered to on the date that you delivered it. So be it email or or something of a postcard that you send out a flyer that you send out it's, the one that you really can say here's, who I want to get this and here's when I'm I want them to get this, okay? It doesn't mean every single one I'm going to read it or opening to do anything with it, but p r and referral generation in a lot of cases happened sort of as it happens, even if you're doing a lot to amplify it, you don't really have near that control now those two other forms the trade office they have a tremendous amount of credibility, right? Somebody a friend of yours says, oh no, you need to hire this person in many cases that loaning that trust really ratchets up the credibility and the same quite frankly is with p r a lot of people I find I don't spend enough effort on generating reviews and blog's or in publications because if they feel like it's a lot of work or there's something sort of magical about it that you know, they don't really know how it happens but thinking in your own mind how many times you've read an article about a company on dh how much credibility that article really gave in your mind where is that same company may have had a full page ad in that same publication or on that same website and you'd ignored because they're just trying to sell me something but because that publication reached out and said no, these people are great and frankly, sometimes they buy that story right? I mean, sometimes they're in there because their cousin you know, rights for that publication, but we still give that so much more credence because it seemed like a third party endorsement okay, so that's why these things I believe really, really worked well together another thing about advertising I can tell you, you know, anybody out there that has a staff that staff getting to read and see an ad in a publication is very, very it's very, very powerful for them say look, look what I'm a part ofthe, you know, there's there's my company you know, out there in public on the billboard, you know, whatever it is that they've bought so there's a lot of really good reasons to invest in advertising however, where people I think really fall down is that they waste a lot of money most you see a lot of ads, you know, I love the fashion magazines, right? You know you're you're on about page seventy five before you get to the table of contents, right? And most of those ads, you know, or somebody engine like this, you know, let's close on in this and and then a logo, right? I mean and it's so you know, it's just it's just images what people in the business call it while those brands that's, what's important, they've got more money uh the most of the typical small business owner before the typical small business owner that ad has to be narrowly targeted. It has to be something that I believe to be effective to be something we call to step advertising to term that's been used in direct response advertising for forever the idea behind that is instead of an answer either being having no call to action, right? Just a logo on a groovy picture or I see a lot of people run ads that will just basically say, here's, what we sell call us so we can come out in solid to you, you know, or click here to buy it, and then you think about it in the course of a space of, you know, this big or, you know, even a half page ad I mean, have you really done enough to build know, like and trust now, maybe if you're a well known household name and people already know what you stand for you, you can get away with that, but most of us really need to spend a lot of time doing this education process, right? The know, like and trust. So the idea behind two step advertising is really a concept that says every ad that you run needs to be actually offering something of value that calls them tio make in action, so and that action is typically not buy. It is typically go get this free information, download this free report, learn how to do x attend this workshop, get this free e book because that I'll do that you're not actually asking me to spend my money, you're not yet because I don't know you. I don't like you yet, I know I will I know I will mean and you know, I'm talking about out there, you know? I love all of you guys okay? So we need something that starts that process and so thinking in terms of really running on ly direct response ads making sure that you could be accountable so if you've got before I would place any advertising, I'd certainly want to make sure that I could track it and then I had all the systems in place, so I know whether my money was well spent but think in terms of using advertising to create awareness for content. So thinking back to the last couple days, you see why I've spent so much time on content because it's the key to actually making your advertising work, I'm going to show you pretty absurd example actually okay, these air to companies selling insurance essentially the same product ok company on the left, friendship insurance really sound like nice people don't think basically what they've done in their ad has given you a whole bunch of ways to call a whole bunch of people so they could come out and sell you something right now if you knew friendship insurance and you were looking for that what whatever it is that they offer and you were in indiana, ohio in kentucky, you know, maybe you would maybe you'd call them up because you were ready to buy something or a friend of yours said oh yeah, you need to work with these guys on the right and again like I said, these air kind of absurd examples intentionally this is another company selling insurance but starts with a headline warning veterans free report reveals the truth about why ninety eight point seven of all veterans are overpaying for their life insurance by as much as seventy three percent so this point they're not trying to sell me anything but if if I fit who they're talking about if I'm a veteran buying life insurance they're sort of shocked me and then wanting to go am I overplaying? I mean if all veterans air overpaying I must be overpaying I want to read a little more at least about that so if you get into this small copy, they basically are offering a free report on how to figure out whether or not you're overpaying. Ok, so this is a really old example of somebody that was using kind of the free e book problem wouldn't probably before the internet was really that standard because they have an eight hundred number and they're a toll free number in there that you can call twenty four hours on dh listen to a recorded message and leave your name same concept today really go to our website get this free report so if you were somebody looking for insurance or maybe you weren't you know the beauty of this one this they may have not even known they were living may have thought they were just fine, you know, I've got the insurance in place so all of a sudden by offering this free information and like I said, this is kind of a silly, almost absurd example of, you know, almost over the top but I use it because I actually think that it really drives home the point so well on the difference between advertising that's really just trying basically trying to get you to call me so this is this is no to buy and this starts know like and trust now in your free booker and your free report that you put out there obviously you're going to have something that then starts to explain what you have to offer that's different it is going to start the process maybe of introducing them to products and services or mohr education it's going to invite them maybe to a workshop which sued difference with this is now in the space of maybe that same eighth page or quarter page ad you started the process of now being able to give them tons and tons of information instead of this entire ad having to do all the selling for you so what do you think the most important part of maybe either of those ads but adds, in general anybody called action is really, really important content content, but contact information is important. Look at this ad on the right what's the most on you're right headline the headline did you tell her? In my opinion, the most important of any at the most important thing of any ad is the headline ok and here's the reason what we typically do you imagine you're flipping through a magazine? What do you do it right on anything, anything, anything, right? Something grabs your attention. There are lot of copywriters and add people over the years that would talk about spending days writing the headline and then the rest of the ad, you know, maybe forty five minutes, right? And they'll write hundreds of headlines before they get the one right that they're going to go with. Um, I believe that that is still true today because I think we regardless of where ads are placed, I think I think we're more scanners, then we even used to be you can look at I showed you that heat map yesterday on the way people go through web pages and they clearly time and time again will show evidences that headline bullet points next section, bullet points that's how people read and they actually are making decisions about whether to read anything else the called action that content the contact information all of that decision is made because the headline grabbed him and I used to say but that's not very pc to say myself um but that's effectively what you're trying to do is really grab attention in that way so thinking about your guys businesses think in terms of most over the top absurd headline and again I'm I don't really mean absurd but I mean something that actually makes you feel like you could really say that you know what it is that doesn't that sound a little you know, a little over the top, you know? Could I do I really want to get attention in that way we can always scale it back we could always tone it back, but I want you to think in terms of that here's some really, really common formulas don't ask me why, but who else wants to have incredible pictures of their babies is an unbelievably compelling headline ok, that who else wants to be in this club? Who else wants to get this benefit because somebody else is getting it very, very compelling headlines ok where you say something? We came up with a great headline for I was sorry for last night let's hear about actually you know what? I'm going to do this and hopefully I don't take the entire stage down with us but we're going with the magic white board so that we can maybe capture some of these you want to come up with me? Come let's hear what that headline is san diego woman shoots babies okay. Wow, that is awesome that you know that I'm gonna shorthand that's awesome that's awesome. Okay, so that really now that as with anything okay we could sit around here and think that's awesome and I think it probably is obviously you want to test it to you know before you would you know by a full page ad you want to run that by more people because there are definitely going to be people that reacted I have to say I was I'm a little uncomfortable well, it is, you know, shocking and makes people want tio gravitate toward it I hurts my heart that's for meeting I'm I'm totally with you so you may not be able to use that but I will tell you that if it's not making you uncomfortable it's probably not an effective one okay, so sometimes they're not right right off the bat I will tell you it fits it fits the formula you know, ineffective headline so we go through a couple more so in that into a talking logo to for her it absolutely could be now you would just have to play with it I mean, I think it's a great start so and I know there's a lot of photographers out there, so I'm guessing that few of them were starting to react. Teo teo, that one let's cover a few more ideas here, concepts here and then let's play with the kind of the headline workshop for you guys. So thiss john there's a lot of l o l ok again, you're not trying to sell photographers, so don't get too, you know, don't get too confident about the yellow elves, but execution anyway, not shoot a baby that's, right? So the secret to x is a headline, you know, adding kind of a mundane with a really big benefit, little known ways to do x, obviously a headline that clearly shouts solving a problem do something like it's amazing how often people will will have the benefit of, you know, swim like an olympic athlete, right? You know, that kind of of thing that they associate with, you know what you must know about x, another really compelling headline formula because they're everybody wants to be in the know they don't it's amazing people, people will go out of their way, you know, to make sure that I'm not looking silly, that they're not getting ripped off or not overpaying, you know, that's, why that headline I showed you earlier is so effective because everybody assumes that they are overpaying, you know pretty much for everything that they buy or that they're not getting the experience that they could and then other people are and so these aren't necessary manipulative in a way but it's just playing with some some some human nature I mean, talk about pain and gain fear and greed I mean, these air some real drivers on dso acknowledging that in ways that really piques their curiosity, you know, is how you start the process in the cases a couple of arrests and could you give an example of the mundane plus benefits that was the one that they were not sure what you mean by me? Think of I'm trying to think of a good example, ok, um, mundane, not this true, especially of those you have here, but I'm going to share one that use common housewife learns how to do x so people thinking of, oh that's kind of a boring, mundane thing that, you know, has a certain sort of role assigned to it then all of a sudden, like, makes a million dollars it's like, wait a minute, you know, I want to do that, you know, I associate with that thing that you thought was, you know, maybe not that glitzier that had a certain role scientist so something normal somebody normal that's doing something extraordinary it's actually and something that they've always kind of thought oh this is all I can do you know this is the mundane thing that's going to be in my existence but all of a sudden now I'm not cool thank you or that person's not think of your own business so we got one for photographer um your own businesses then now from what I've shared or maybe what your conversation last night what are some other things that you could you so I'm gonna I'm gonna pick on people chris oh I've been racking my brain you know what they know we've been a little phrase and we make kicking around but it's more as a hook when a logo but this basically don't suck harvest rainwater which incorporates the employing ground you know? So again I don't know in terms of a headline how you worked that into an ad but again it's attention uh type I guess yeah what if he didn't even put rainwater? One of the things about headlines is that if you put too much information in them people make a decision about them you know it's like oh, I don't care about rainwater before they actually decide you know why that might matter but this you know, this might actually have way more curiosity you might play with it again all of everything we're talking about today is needs to be tested, right? Sarah? Um, little known ways to run faster, okay, that fits obviously one of the formula's very well right now would be a little known ways you want to get some more kelly, sir, anybody else have one? It's actually related to his, uh, why your websites website should suck. Should suck. Okay, so that that actually fits a great formula because what you've done there is you've turned something that sounds like a negative yeah, you've turned something around a common belief, and you've turned it around and that's another really great formula. I believe that my website should be awesome. That's what everybody's telling me, right? And you're telling me why it should suck sucking leads, right? So definitely hopefully click on that I would click on the right hand side without, like, what? It's. So now you have to be prepared with some of these headlines because if they are, if they're to misleading, you know, if like, I mean, if I clicked on that, I think maybe you're going to tell me that it doesn't have to be that pretty and in fact, it's going to be more effective if it does if it's cluttering the or if it's you know something, so you're going against some of the common sort of beliefs on that, but sucking in leeds you know, you just have to jump right into that but I think that could be I like that one yeah, I did actually I've got one coming in from the rainy day store thank you so much so active and regular s o this is for chris the secret to cutting your water bill in half or not paying your water bill very good and I think we can apply that actually a lot of the business and of course that when you could work with that that's a great idea but shortening it to be a little maybe punch here could just be you know who else doesn't want to pay their water bill, right? I mean and also it's like there's people not paying their water bill how do I get on the train? You know? So you might play with that and you have you got one? Yeah, I'm thinking something along the lines of three things you're doing today that's costing you thousands yeah yeah and sometimes what you want to do with the headline too is if you could mention sort of the target audience in there as well that can't be all things small business tallying that's exactly exactly that's great anymore from duct tape universe well, I just have to read this one out us a photographic sensors ready back there in the booth photographic elements created one for creative life that says housewife learns brain surgery on creative live now now works at top hospitals all right, well and we'll capture that, you know, for the for the marketing folks here so we've got we've got a couple more actually we've got a three, eighteen media little known ways to double your email click through rates sure and again, a lot of times that's you know, something that people are anxious about right there trying to figure out and so anything you can do to try to figure out something that is a common action that we're doing the little known ways you know, it is really, really polls that people I'd love to hear ryan, if you have any thought on that because again what your son is a really high quality product it's a bag it's wallace a guitar have you done anything, teo? I haven't I mean, I'm trying to think of something that would be provocative is shooting children well, you know, there's a sense that I have at least about your products in the vibe coming from your website that it really is kind of this tastemaker this you know, style person, this person that kind of really values I mean, we were talking about on the way over in the car I have I have a bike bag by bag that's made by companies specifically for writing you know, with your bike is all these features on his made of synthetic, you know, so it's light it's got all these bells and whistles on it, and you make an incredible messenger bag that people you even told me, people in new york city ride, you know, with your bag, but I'm guessing they it's not only a choice, they actually make some compromises in order to do that from a function standpoint, right? There's, no helmet place, you know, there's there's, no place to hook their keys, necessarily. So, you know what message, you know, might actually, I mean, apple was famous and doing, you know, where they were, really their headlines were really targeted, that person that thought differently, you know? And I'm guessing that your customers think a little differently, or at least want to believe that they think a little differently than the crowd, right? Sure. So I think you've got a lot to work with there, you know, and it might not be, you know, the headline for your for your website, you know, necessarily, but it might be something that you would actually play with, you know, in some either banner, advertising or in even pitching to the media, you know, sometimes some of these headlines can actually be great attention getters if you've got a story that you're trying to pitch to another blogger, you're trying to pitch to the media and and sometimes these headlines I'm guessing tracy, if you run with that a reporter at some point is going to call you and ask you about it so so sweet photo with with you with the camera so they know you're there so we've got one john from space time on the internet for ryan put cool in your pants e I love you live with that I don't know I think is again part of it has to do with appreciate that right place so think about it think about you know and add that you know is maybe even in on like a website or something where you know there's a little bit of that violent it's almost it's not even that serious you know that tongue in cheek very tongue in cheek so I'm gonna put that one up the right way to have a couple of questions for you yeah, definitely so donald ducked yeah, jack rooms says can we actually quote unquote trademark or copyright these headlines once we start using them in our ads and and of course I'm talking about our own not the suggestion scene here, the thing that I mean I've gone through in trademark some things you can trademark phrases sayings they will be very tightly to a specific use very tightly to a specific industry I mean, you can't you know chris couldn't trademark, you know, some phrase about water and nobody else who had anything do with water, you know, would be able to, you know, he would have protection I mean, it would be phrases particularly they probably give you a service marked rather than actual trademark on dh it would be very, very tight, I mean, very, very small window as far as what the protection wass space time is wondering what about negative headlines like don't do x if you want to fail, we knows all these air really positive negative stuff? Well, yeah, it's a matter of just inserting that in there, but it was very, very clearly, you know, proven formula in fact, you know, one of the what one of the ones that you'll see a lot is a lot of affiliate people that are selling products will actually talk about, you know, so somebody selling the internet marketers use it all the time they're actually, you know, what's funny is the internet markers are a great place to learn, you know, some of the ones that you, you think you're sort of almost the sleaziest, you know, there is a great place to learn some of the tactics now again they go over the top you know they don't back up sometimes you know again I know it's a gross generalization but it can be a great place to learn on dh they're really you know they might actually write a headline that that might be something like you know is duct tape marketing a rip off right? And so you know, all of a sudden people are like oh, I'm thinking about buying you know, duct tape marketing you know, maybe a little girl in that you go there you go the site and typically it's all these glowing reviews about it right trying to sell you duct tape marketing but what got you there was your curiosity is to whether or not you were going to get ripped off so it can be effective again it can be, you know, a little on the edge in the gray areas well, so we keep moving think so so I'm gonna do a little more on advertising and then we'll have you come up into a hot seat house okay? Okay, all right. Sounds good. I'll just put this slide up there for you guys ending pages again many times that I talked about landing pages at least three or four times, obviously in your advertising even your offline advertising that you might do sending people to a landing page so this is this is almost the identical slide that I had here uh when we talked about it using landing pages for your online efforts but essential in any form of advertising that you're sending people unless you're just promoting and at you know, twenty nine dollars product that people could go by you want to send him to the actual page where they could buy it but in terms of are creating awareness we want to send them to a landing page we want to continue to test and track those air three services I told you about yesterday. All of these landing page services unbound optimized lee even google experiments gives you the ability to run two landing pages three landing pages if you want and be testing you know one over the other which ones actually pulling which ones getting the most conversion whether it's you know a sign up for whatever conversion means on that page get great analytics on it. I wanna talk about facebook advertising we talked about it a little bit yesterday but I wanted to bring it back into the advertising conversation specifically if you have a personal page any business page you have now the ability to boost your posts because only a very small percentage of your of your followers so if you spent the time to build a lot of followers only a small percentage of them are seeing your news feed so for a very small fee on your personal page you can actually boost your post and what'll happen is it'll come into the streams of your friends mohr of your friends in a very prominent way actually or you can promote your business posts and again these will only be promoted this particular form of advertising would be promoted to the people who already like your page it won't be promoted to all of them you know but you have the ability to say for seventy five dollars to significantly increase the amount of your followers that see what you're promoting I use these when I'm I don't I don't just put you know a picture of something I'm doing that's fun and then promoted I mean I like that people see that and I like the people share that but what I will typically do is if I have a free a new e book or new course coming out or something that I really want people to do I want them to go to a landing page and act on my side then I will typically promote these and I get tremendous you know response I mean it's not untypical for us to get another hundred one hundred fifty sign ups for any book through you know, for about fifty dollars ad I think promoting actually let's friends of your friends that's right which they would not normally see that's right? So the so when you drop that in fact off our friends of your people who have like two you write so when I I can't remember what this was actually fun but you know we need it and this is actually they've changed just a little bit the look of it when you drop down that promote so when you post this is just a status update you know, in in my timeline on my page actually on dh then I clicked promote and it'll tell you kind of how much it would cost to reach more people on dh this is actually they've actually changed this now too jack what you just mentioned to reach friends of friends so now for about you know, if I click this today for fifty dollars this would probably save more like twenty five to fifty thousand people are going to see it and we do you know, the other thing that happens is we get we get three, four hundred likes, you know, on a an actual post it does as well. The other thing I would recommend that you take a look at is contest on dh there are two aps that I think are particularly useful and easy to use they do cost money, but the wildfire app and woo box are tuapse that you can actually pay to have the app create a a contest page on your site are on your actual business page and then, you know, for photos or for any really anything you game that would be contest double, that people would compete for a prize you typically get likes, you could actually get sign ups, email sign ups, they handle all of the technical parts of it. You know, all of the terms of service and what not so that you're not breaking the rules. Is anybody run a contest on facebook? You had a life greater life, ok, you want to just tell what what? What did you offer? What you give away? Well, we wait that's, right? Exactly what we also dio don't listen to the pre show, obviously, right? Got a contest at times, but, you know, taken when books, right? Absolutely anybody else and you guys. Kelly, you've run a contest, what you do, you work with the adventure company and what we asked participants do. Those participants that were on the weekend they get sent an email on sunday evening asking them to submit their photos of the week, and we run a fan photo of the week contest and asked their friends to vote on them, and the photo that has the greatest number of votes submitted wins a free pass, so again, you're combining customer generated content. You know, with the with exposure on facebook I mean the way you guys were doing people are actually sharing the link is well I mean, so you know they're creating traffic probably in creating sign ups and sales so who else could run a contest on facebook what would a contest look like for you for me I would probably do something like a uh cubist kid contests and then people would have a certain amount of time to get their friends to vote on those and they would win what maybe a package for a package ok, right um well that's a couple hands over here was that chris yeah, I've thought about a wackiest rain barrel yeah, but then they could possibly win a package to increase the you know, a larger system so yeah painting rainbows barrels that I'm going to submit mine I got my wife painted and it's pretty wacky who else and you know send me your worst website you're in the north none of that they base thanks I've got my website sucks and they take a picture on the screen shot everybody votes most on whoever gets voted the worst site gets an overhaul I like that one. I like that one a lot I think that you know as long as people weren't like submitting my website as the worst one sided right think your website sucks very well but but yeah, I think people would have fun with that I mean the photo things you know, I one long time ago I asked you know, people in these were of course already customers teo you know, if they have submitted picture of themselves somewhere wherever they lived holding my book that that I would you know, send him a big price package and you know, people just kind of have fun with that that stuff is well, but it gets spread, you know, and that's one of the really you know, I think a lot of you see a lot of big brands doing these, you know, skittles and eminent mars eminem's and stuff you know, doing these big like contest, but I think for the small business it does create attention, but I also think it gets spread and it's stuff you can have fun with and I think that's one of the probably the biggest keys to engagement on facebook is that, you know, people people don't I mean, you don't benefit from being real serious there, you know, it's meant to be much lighter much more personal and much more fun let's talk about where you would advertise ok, so you have ah and thinking of, you know, obviously online we talked about ad words yesterday uh, offline is you know, is going to be your own call because you're in many cases you your industry, your town you know has has different ways different vehicles that you could advertise in so it's let's let's round house that a little bit just uh just started throwing stuff out where you are where maybe where you're currently advertising if you are on dh maybe justin based on our conversation some other places that might make some sense and they obviously out there and duct tape world we'd love to hear from them on suggestions on where the most effective places for small business to advertise so our community has a journal of business. Okay, so so most communities have some sort of maybe in some cases multiple journals, business journals a lot of communities have small business journalists as well these days that focus more specifically on small business. Now what kind of ad would you running that would be an image ad or a two step I think I might go with a two step you might promote some content that yeah, I think that would I think that ad would do quite well too. Yeah, what else? Who else? That it I have newspaper I have one for you uh for tracy uh there's a mom mom magazine way have a local yeah mom's magazine sure. There's tons of logs that you know they generically get cover things related to mom's cover things related to babies cover things related to, you know buying stuff obviously jamey's says how about craigslist or is that too grainy? You know, as anybody done that any advertising on craigslist and what was it was a grimy were clean no, I can't say that because I mean, I have met some really great people it's not my target client anymore. It was one day when I was starting but um people go to craigslist because they want a deal and I no longer really want to be the deal giver nor nor do we want you to be that's, right? Yeah, so I don't I think the real point of that answer really is it can work for a certain type of, you know, business or if you're after a certain time of market there there yeah. So we have san diego rob who says groupon's groupon's ok anybody what do you think about the group coupon? Okay, I don't know what you think about it. I was gonna give you my two cents. You know, it can be a very, very effective way to get a ton of exposure and a ton of discounted leads, right? So you've bought leads in that kid. I mean, that's how I think you need to look at it is not is look at this great way for me to get a bunch of traffic it is you've basically spent money because you're giving away half of what you might sell something for some cases sixty percent, so you're effectively buying lee, okay, so if you look at it that way, then what? You also need to think it is that this, you know, it's kind of like the story that has the product that they're selling for less than, you know, they're buying it for it's because they want to get people in the door. So if you have a business where that purchased lead is going to come back and you have a routine to make sure that they sign up for your membership club or that they, you know, that they that maybe you give him some incentive immediately to come back, you know, another time, but where? The mistake where I see a lot of people make is they get flooded, and I have to tell you a lot of small businesses, like massaged businesses and salons, you know, I've done this thinking what a great deal was and actually one of my community, they put him out of business because they got two thousand leads that they couldn't really an honor so you know yeah, obviously have to be prepared for that but the real thing is you have to have the mentality that that this is a purchase lead and so how can I make it up on the next sale in the next cell in the next cell if you don't have that in place, I go to this one restaurant that they were on groupons all the time and they suck it you go there first off they treat you not like your group on person, you know that that's going to get a discount they treat you like they're really glad to see you they make you immediate offer that give you immediate here's ten percent offer here's a free appetizer the next time you come back they signed you up for this thing that hey, our members only you're going to get you know, thursday as you get a half bottle, you know, half price wine on thursdays I mean, they just really work it well to make sure that that group it's not a one time thing and I think that's the key that is a great cancer had a question on just the advertising and going to a page like I would think when you're advertising you're going to get people at different stages of where they want to buy and on on the landing page do you recommend having a called action where they can actually you know by and then also a uh like an e book thing to kind of gain trust or do you focus on one or the other? Well, the one thing that I would say is like I always say tested you know you would want to test it I mean what the overwhelming research on landing pages is don't confuse them, you know, make it one thing that and so that your ads I mean part of the secret is that your ads are really targeted to people that I mean in some cases you can't control where they are and they're thinking or their cycle of buying but you want to make sure that you're you're driving him in there, you know, to do only one thing I have seen some some testing that that people have said is pretty effective toe actually make so maybe something gets in there like I don't know if I'm ready to give you my email address, but I will connect with you on facebook, you know, I was so make you know, maybe give him some other connection options, but I don't know that I'd have the smorgasbord every time we've run the smorgasbord of do you want a b or c our response overall response goes way down because it confuses it makes them think, oh, what you're really trying to sell me something information marketing world again what about the exit pop one if they don't do your intended action and then you wait all right how about this you know um I'm guessing that those must work some because I get him a lot but for the irritate the heck out of me like your pop up example before three hundred you have said yeah again every question I could always say tested my guess is that that what what's more what I found to be effective in exit is not but wait you know why you're leaving her the worst one is did you really mean to leave right yes I really meant to leave um you might actually ask him a question was there something you couldn't find here today you know, I find that you know I might you might get some response to that that would actually be useful but you know that trying to sell him something you know exit I don't it works maybe for some of the internet marketers because unfortunately there sir preying on desperation anyway we've had some luck with live chat on the landing page is ok talk about that because uh so you mean actually somebody comes and then because you're able to answer some questions that they turn into a lead yeah it almost becomes I think it plays to your trust partners you elation and we've tested both where we've had the live chat option there but also at a certain amount of time or if they do something on the landing page than a proactive chat pops up and says, you know, I see you have any questions or anything like that and it's been really effective. Yeah, and a lot of ways that, you know, you've already brought the lead there, so you've already generated lee, but now, as you said, you're building trust and you, maybe you're able to sort where they are it's like we're already using another company doing this, or we're just starting to think about this, so we need some basic information, so you might actually have a serious of questions to kind of help define where they are, you know that maybe you even start asking them, you know, once the conversation starts, we're going to our first hot seat of the day on day, as you remember, even though they're really lukewarm seats because we already told you, but, you know, we're just, uh, what's your what's, your greatest challenge opportunity and don't don't make this like, I don't have enough leads what we want to give us something it might actually just be something that you plan to do next week, and you want some advice on how you should start, right? And so as a group we're going to, you know, after kelly kind of extracts that we're we're going to answer those questions and I mean throwing advice and we're going to ask for the duct tape land and world out there toe offer their two cents is well ok, so kelly have you pick somebody yes we're gonna have angie come up first so andy just remind us again your business and what you do okay? So I work with rene where the bottom line and we're in online training company for small business owners and entrepreneurs and we provide you know, step by step systems for them um yes, very fitting with what we're doing here but really from, you know, concept to actually delivering that product okay, so you had a reason why you came to creative live what is it of the information that we've covered thus far where you at right now in terms of what what's your biggest challenge? Where do you think you need to go from here? Well, we're just starting out. Renee and I have both been working with small business owners for a long time in different fashion but not in this specific fashion providing the training for them um so you know, right now we're in we're getting ready to create our full online presence so this's extremely valuable for us, but I think the biggest challenge or something that's in on my mind is how do we create credibility you know when we haven't we haven't offered say we're launching a new class we haven't offered that class before so you know, how do we look like we know what we're doing and we've been doing this forever, okay? All right and that's a challenge for a lot of new business owners is how do you demonstrate an element of credibility so that people you know, see some proof when they come visit your website or if they're talking to other people? So from personal experience what where I would suggest you start maybe sort of your existing network we're going to talk about referral generation in a few minutes, but I think that that's a place where I would start thinking about the connections that you have on, you know, places like linked in who you've got some people who have probably already worked with you in the small business area. So looking at how you might be able to get some testimonials on linked in because that's a place that you can certainly gather some information and add to your level of credibility and I think one of the other things that I think is really important in terms of elevating your trust and credibility is starting to speak and write on your topics and this is where the whole marketing hourglass comes into play again and this is again why content is such an important piece of it is like you saw in the advertising, a lot of what we're going to offer their in two step direct advertising is content, so a great place to start there would be with the writing. I know you mentioned that your website you're getting ready to launch, I think october timeframe so now would be a great time to start writing, start building up your blawg and creating some element of credibility there, you know, on the other facet of having content on your block is that, you know, provides that bit of an annuity function as faras ceo value, and then the credibility that's going to add to it and any questions or comments from the group here, the studio audience, anything else would add to that, like, I think what you said about writing before they even start building the site is dead on because that's, the biggest bottleneck when I have a client, is like, so what are we gonna be done? I'll be done before you're even ready to move on about your about page, right? And if you start that, you will get all of what you want to say out and whatever is extra ends up in your blood, right, and if especially for coming into a new business if you're not comfortable writing. The best way to write or to get better at writing is to continue to write and so you know, when you first start out, you're not gonna be that comfortable with what you've put down on paper but continue to do it because that's where it's going to get better and better and it's the same with, you know, in other places speaking so it sounds like the two of you from what I know about the two of you and the signature brand audit information that you submitted, you have a fairly extensive network already and so taking a look at this whole concept of referral generation again and some of your strategic partners, the people that you've already done some business with and that are in your network already those are some opportunities to perhaps create, you know, a live event, it might be a wine and cheese where you speak, you have a very brief discussion on, you know, what's happening in the small business community on dh that's what's going to help elevate your credibility, teo get things kind of kicked off, john, you know, I I've seen your you've already worked a little bit of your methodology out, I've, you know, I've seen from some of things on your website on, but maybe you've already done this, but I would if I would go out to a couple prospects people that you know could use what you do, people that you know you andi I say, look, we're we're starting this we need some results, we need some case studies were going to run your business or we're going to do some project for your business and here's all we ask you to do is if it's the end of it, you've got a great result, you know that we can use you weaken, document this and use you as a case study we can get a testimonial from maybe even if you pick the right person, you have them agreed actually, you know, introduce you then to their network of and again all on lee if you deliver a result, but but sometimes that could be a really great way to kind of kick start it's it's practice for you in a way you know of actually doing what you're going to do with the client and those are people that are already, you know, sort of partway down that funnel in terms of know like and trust they've already had some elements of experience with you they've known you from, you know, past dealings or whatever the case may be so think back to your network and how they might be able to help you it might be fun tio sort of tell somebody story too and then you could have blog's along the way, and maybe some video interviews of, you know, where they're at and how, how it feels to put this methodology into place and the benefits that they're receiving, right? You can see that being being fun project, yeah, I mean, really almost tell him that you're going to document it live that you know, that I think there'll be a lot of content interest in that as well as really, you know, some great exposure in terms of, you know, how you actually do the work that you did that vehicle very ready made content, because that always ends up being people's challenge. Ryan, you have a comment you wanted to make? Yeah, I think it's for us, credibility goes there's some services out there. Free services help a reporter out. Um, where these people there's media sources looking for subject matter experts. So if and these listings come out every day, they look for people to quote new sources cell if you could get quoted on nbc news or something that's, something you could put on your side as featured in this publication. And I think that goes to the credibility. When people land on you that year, a trusted source for the media that could be helpful. And renee spoke before of the local business magazine and that would be a great place to start as well because you know, I know that you're a local business today and you wanted take on much more than that but any kind of magazine or anybody that's quoting you interviewing you in that regard can help it it doesn't matter how small it is either I would certainly use those and those air pieces of information that you can add to your web site as well all right very good to have you come back up john thank you right so if you guys gets more comments and then you know put put those in any of you guys were obviously we're going to spend you know the rest of day together so if you think of ideas for for angie you know tell a cz well and we're going to dio that's the first hot seat we're going to do three more today I think so you know the the internet audience will catch up with us and jump into those as well all right let's go to public relations it's actually really one of my favorite subject said you get somebody charming in there well I just had it since we're moving on to public relations I did have an advertising question before we do that and that was what are your thoughts and opinions on guerrilla advertising campaigns and that's from do muffins um my gorilla I guess they mean duct tape marketing right really was you know, so last century um what you know obviously need a little more definition of what that meant, but I'm guessing that they mean like, you know, community flyers and coughed coffee shops you know things of that nature that's typically a lot of times when people talk about that concept that's you know, they're not talking about the the traditional, you know, newspaper in their town but just kind of unique ways to get get the word out I think they're looking for more like street teams or stunt so that sort of thing I think that I mean, I think that could be very effective, you know, as an event, I think and as a piece of kind of the overall, you know, mix I mean going, you know, even things like going to a conference and having them insert, you know, flyer in the bag that everybody gets, you know, convey in some cases can be really low cost, you know, ways to get a lot of exposure to a target audience, so I think you should definitely explore as many of those as possible, I think you can also waste a lot of money, you know, in some of those you know, that comes to mind is the, you know, the the local high school sports program you know, for example that you know that once a couple thousand dollars for for an ad you know may or may not make some sense actually might make sense for you, sir, I have not found that it makes but you know, those kind of purchases or more support the team, you know, the type of thing or sport the school but I think it's I think there are a lot of, you know, using creativity to do a lot of creative things to get in front of the right audience. Khun could be pretty expensive, inexpensive. There was a a plumbing contractor in my town that it was during the kind of november election cycle and everybody had yard signs in there and he, you know, he's got about eighty employees he's got a bunch of customers love him, he's got it's got like, fourteen kids and he puts him in all those commercials, stuff and it's, you know, so everybody knows who he is and he's known for just being really kind of fun and creative. And so his name's bob hamilton and he made the signs and bob hamilton for plummer on got him all over the city and, you know, cost him a couple thousand dollars maybe you got so much exposure, you know, over that and so, you know, doing things like that that people kind of chuckle about, you know, but they remember can can be really effective, all right? So the area of public relations is actually really broad area, you know, typically when I talk about it, I'm really talking about getting getting logs and publications that your readers are, I'm sorry, your target market, your ideal customers read t write something, you know, hopefully good about you where your products or but something you're doing so that you get some exposure, you know, from people and again from that sort of third party that's saying you're good rather than you're saying you're good, you know, which is effectively what you're probably saying in some of or at least that's the perception in some of your advertising p r is really always been about relationships. In fact, you know, back when I started my business twenty five years ago, what that meant was as a marketing consultant, as a pr practice practitioner, I had to build relationships with journalists. I had to meet the editors, I had to go out to coffee with him so that I could really understand what they were writing about, you know, a supposed to faxing them, you know, a press release that was going to supposedly get me in in the paper and so a lot of pr folks rule they spent a lot of time, you know, building relationships, losing whatever you want to call it because that was really what they had was they had access then on dso business would come to him and, you know, try to gain access will now we all have access. We have un president access to really just about every journalist in the world because every publication is online now every publication is asking almost all of their journalists to at least if not maintain a blawg to at least submit their column or their peace, you know, to the publication and almost all of them have now the ability for you to register, make comments. All of them are in social media now, in fact, it's not uncommon to find journalist actually trying to locate sources in facebook or in twitter. So what I typically tell people to do is to create your own media list on dh. What I would tell you is that you know, somewhere in the neighborhood of five to ten journalists, bloggers should be on your list of kind of hot prospects either because they write about what you sell there in your community so they cover a beat still, that you know that that's related to yours you would like to know if they wrote about I was talking to ryan again this morning you know there's a handful of bloggers that you know that that have really loyal followings that right about kind of men's you know style and if you know if one of them writes about one of his products you know right because they not only have large followings in some cases they have really dedicated followings in fact, I would say that that one of the things that you know my experience has been is that in some cases and it doesn't have to be you know, that top five blogger that every single person could name in some cases you know, bloggers that maybe you've never heard of but that write about that particular have decent followings in many cases have really engaged followings and so you know, they really can have a lot of influence in fact in some cases mohr influence you know then some mentioned that we work our tails off to get in the new york times because because, you know, the two thousand people that read there's really read there and they read every word of theirs and they and they react to what they say you know, seth cohen has has been a really kind supporter of mine and every time he mentions one of my books five hundred himself like that I mean it's just a mention sure he has a huge following but they also they also pay attention and they hang on pretty much every word and they do what he asked them to do so it can be really, really powerful to start trying to build a list of what I would call hot prospects for that so you could set up alerts as we talked about in beginning of yesterday, I would create your ten journalists, I would create alerts for their names in talk walker or and if you want to continue using google alerts so that you kind of can monitor them, I would create a twitter list, perhaps of them I would say I would like their pages on facebook so what if your target, uh, clientele wouldn't necessarily read the same material that these people are writing about? I guess, well, you know, it's kind of confusing because, well, then they shouldn't show up on your list. Well, I know, but, um, you know, confused, well, that's, what I'm saying is so so give me an example of somebody that you would there might be some of the ua target saying the photography world, but your prospects in san diego that have babies wouldn't let me read this is that you're saying, well, right, I mean, like, I wouldn't necessarily have a photographer blogger right about me because my clientele wouldn't read that, so who what kind of journalist then would you suggest? Well, I guarantee you there's a lifestyle journalists that writes in, you know, what's the san diego paper uh yeah, ok, so in the san diego tribune I guarantee you on sundays or whenever, sometime during the week there is somebody that writes about things for families, things for kids, things for babies, things for moms on dh so that would be a journal for you, you know, I know in the can see star there's a magazine and that comes in the sunday called the star magazine. In that front page, he opened up the front cover and there's a woman that for years has, you know, picked out three things and, you know, a photographer, right? Taking picked cool pictures of babies might be one of the things, so you want to target journalists that right about stuff that your clients would want to read is not necessarily your industry. Exactly. I absolutely yeah, absolutely. I think the other point about that to now is that don't necessarily think about traditional journalists anymore either because there are a lot of people that are part of an industry but have columns in some of these magazines or they blogged for them and it might only be online or maybe it shows up in their magazines sometimes, but they're not the traditional journalists an example of that I'm thinking about you mentioned in a magazine and I think they have a business travel section and that would be somebody that we absolutely to get in touch with you and a lot of them, actually. So you then you go beyond that, you know, it has I don't know how many let's say, twenty sort of regular riders in the print magazine, but they have two hundred people that write online um and you know, it's still pretty darn incredible link it's also a great link back to your web site, you know, to getting in any of those publications, but you might also think in terms ofthe in your community, so I said target the journalists, but you might also look at some of the publications. Some of the publications might actually welcome a monthly column from you. I started mice my writing career started writing once a month for the can see business month small business monthly, I would submit a column that they know that they would run and I did it for a couple of years and years ago on git you know, it was it was a very valuable piece for me because it was marketing materials that it created. It was credibility that it created, but but the key is then targeting these journalists, finding him targeting him and then building a relationship with the way I find that that that works is that you comment on their block you if they write an article and you actually could contribute to that topic because maybe, you know more, you know about that topic than you know, a lot of journalists get told give you seven or words on some topic you've never heard of before and I needed by three, right? So, you know, if you've got research data, you've got pictures, you've got whatever you know, just start sharing that with him. What you want to do with these journalists is is get the first bar, which is be seen as a credible resource, so that when they get asked to write that story, you know, next week they think, oh, you know, there's two people, I know that I could call to ask a question about this, and you get kind of on their short list by doing that if you have incredible news that you can pitch to them great, if you have something really earth shattering that, you know, that happened, some big win that happened, some innovation that you've created in some cases, you know, if you have a product and they're covering, you know, new products, I mean, in some cases that, you know, they want to see your new problem that's right? So there are legitimate reasons to kind of pitch him, but the first thing is is to really be seen as that credible resource that they actually start contacting you. You want to think in terms of staying in touch, you know, part of where we're going to talk about the end of the day is routines you know, so this may be is on you look kind of like your monthly routine once a month, you're making sure that you're reaching out staying, you're staying on their radar, used the online press release services anytime I would say at least once a month, you know, submit to who did you submit to? It was a pr weber, the one I used presented to press and they also send to press is an online service pr web is an online service where you can actually write a press release submitted maybe you'll have a journalist call you, but the biggest thing is you'll get, you know, tons of these will be run and syndicated on lots of sites and expose it, you'll get some exposure, you'll get some links out of doing them on dh it kind of goes to the overall total presence, I'll tell you one nun thing that I did with uh uh clients over the years is we would actually write those press releases once a month and then we would actually we'd actually print the press release and send it out to their best clients so it might be one hundred that so they get an envelope with you know kind of news from schlegel in this particular case is remodeling contractor on dh they sort of just was an easy way to keep their clients you know today and what was going on and they thought they were in the newspaper all the time of even though they were really just sending this press release it was kind of kind of an interesting phenomenon and I think they're also great for us a small business owners tio print out coffee so that and keep it in your marketing kid as well because it's quite useful again that you know helps with your credibility so we've been saying journalists but I would I really want to emphasize this last point you know bloggers have really strong followings find you know a dozen half a dozen they can create you know it could not only create you know buzz for you they can create links back to your site they might become somebody that you could submit content too so make sure that your list includes you know maybe you know maybe it doesn't bloggers but but certainly find you know and I gave you a couple of those topsy is a good play good sight to find bloggers actually google dot com block search slash bog search is actually another site that just turns up blood content could be another way all top I talked about yesterday to find bloggers but dig a little don't just go straight for the you know the top names you've heard of a lot of times it's that sort of middle ground that actually is more hungry for your news they're not getting pitched everything under the sun but build relationships first I want to share a couple tools we already talked about google alerts but talk walker somebody ryan already mentioned help a reporter out ah herro pr web twitter lists you know these air this should be kind of in your toolbox for pr stories that you can pitch to the media I mean, if you have real news stories that should be your press releases, you know any kind of update any kind of announcement, so for your monthly press release pretty much you should you should be in fact, if you want to sit down it I like dooming kind of in a monthly planning, but you can put in a couple out if you want to get that done so that you didn't just have it as part of your routine but make it a habit that you're you're actually submitting when I found was when I got in the habit of submitting press releases and have really kind of building these relationships that the way to tell people the way to get pr to get pr right? It just sort of snowballed ls that once you become a resource have you ever noticed that in your community the same people get quoted all the time in all three publications in town right? Once you become kind of that known resource that gives good quotes you know that gets back to them the bills, relationships they just I'm not saying they're lazy, but they just they just kind of go back to the same sources so you wanted you have to put this time in for like, six months on it. We will definitely pay dividends. So what do you got for? All right? Let's? Start with running. Q. What is a good rule of thumb lead time window for pitching bloggers and online media about your product or a promotion set for certain dates, months and events like magazines, weeks, days? How long do they need? Teo? I think you want to find out. You know, a lot of people publication particular many size typically published what they call an editorial calendar that might say when, you know, obviously a print publication has a much bigger window because, you know, they may be night they make they make clothes an issue ninety days before it actually comes out, so you want to make sure that you're you know, figuring that part out typically bloggers, I you know, I think a lot of times you might you might ask, you know, they may not publish an editorial calendar, but you know, if you're coming up on christmas season and, you know, it's and you're, you know, you have a product you're trying to pitch is a great gift item or something, you know, you you definitely want to think in terms of forty five, ninety days out, a question from blurb when we do the monthly touch, how often how do you recommend doing that? Is it giving them something valuable each month? Well, I think that you can do the number one. Yeah, if you can come up with something valuable in terms of information, but you also want to pay attention to what they're doing. So if you can tag onto something they've already written, if you can let's say, they write about, you know, on article about I do this all the time, I would find research, you know, that would actually support maybe the article that they had written and say, hey, have you seen this? You know, this research, you know, my next time you're writing about that here's a great resource to find it's a lot of times I would use my own the fact that I was reading content, the fact that I'm all over the web to actually say, hey, here's, a couple of resource is you also might want to take a look at, so I love doing that, you know, when they write, like the five best websites for blah, blah, blah, you know, I'll say, oh, by the way, here, three more, you might want to take a look at two, so just kind of being seen as as helpful is probably the the overriding like that would be helpful. Yeah, uh, rainy day start. Do you have to get permission from the different news media to post their articles on your website? Yeah, that's a tricky one, because some of them actually, especially the old school ones, still want you to do that. I've never heard of anybody actually being slapped on the risk, you know, for for running that if you go to their website, you goto forbes website, for example, you know, they will tell you that you have to get permission, but I again, in this in this world that we live in where everybody sharing everything, you know, instantly, I think that that wall is really, really come down, so, you know, I'm I'm sort of ask for forgiveness type of person a supposed to permission because you know if you ask for is the problem tell you know you can't run it and then if you run it and use it, nobody is saying I would always I mean I will give one caveat always with that a vision where it came from, you know, back link back to you know who the reporter was you know, all of a full full full saturation fantastic what do you think and what are some ideas if you had this journalist list now, what some might is of things that if you and you wanted to kind of think what are some story ideas that you could pitch and again just just think about your own business is yes, we're rolling out live tech support so nobody is really doing that, so that seems like something that kind of thing it was picked up all right? So the biggest biggest thing you have to do is make sure that they understand this is an innovation for an entire industry, right? That makes sense because here's what the media cares about new they care about, you know, something that nobody's ever done before they care about criminal activity, so hopefully you don't go there, but you know it really you always have to think in terms of what would their readers care about okay because they don't care about your business I mean the you know, essentially they care about what you're doing so so any time you're pitching a story or an idea it has to be about how would this benefit the read their readers ok, I think in terms of that who else had ideas not angie angie and I could do a serious in the local journal of business seven on seven systems are you know, one a month or something. So do you have a relationship with them? I can ok and so you would pitch like a monthly or weekly column or something like that it's a monthly publication so be a monthly syria I would definitely and and one nice thing about that is I pitched the whole series pits the whole idea and because a lot of times they really like that because it theoretically engages people to read off and they know that they're going to have that whole filled with something that sort of hangs together right? And then what will you do with that after you've right that whole siri's oh, I would make sure that it was on the block post there would be some kind of call to action I would have in a book out of that yeah yeah yeah yeah like you were raising your hand to me I'm just thinking how perfect that would be for her uh I shoot babies like if that comes across your desk and your writings and some piece ok complete jump out yes for a lot of particularly traces gonna weigh in no well, I think that's not really I mean, it might be a headline but not necessarily you build your business around right on and actually you know from a media stand for for pitching you know the story behind that would actually be you know that the san diego woman is using a pretty controversial you know, I mean that that would be that would be the storm crap quite frankly so that may or may not be a good thing. So where were you going to add one note? Try my do I have teo I think a good one for me would be like that like a ten best liste um of uh like that I don't know that was just a generic but what would you do? You would pitch that is a column that you could write, write, write okay? And I could probably come up with five to ten best something every month I mean it wouldn't you just take a little brain string and then I also have writing an article this will be a one time thing but the value of family heirloom portraiture, what I don't know and I don't know if people would be interested in reading that but it would add value tio really all photographers out there really want people just to know the value of it yeah and I I think actually that could be that could be a great story it would you would have to pitch the right person you know that covers that and I think you'd also have to do some you have to do some research so they just didn't become your editor of the opinion oh no I understand I mean, there is there is actually you know, facts that you know his opinion but it's also why is it better to get it from here than here? Uh, yeah and I don't think that you know another thing I think would be interesting for your industry and I'm guessing, you know, photographers out there would probably have already crossed this one but, you know, there there is still that print digital divide is in there in the industry and I would see particularly the people that you're working with in your targeting, you know, I think you could actually come up with some pretty interesting things about I'm not going to weigh in on what way go but just pretty interesting things about the print digital divide yeah, and if this wasn't said from photographic elements, how long do prince last so archival versus the drugstore pants and definitely a big topic for encouraging your client to not go to the drugstores and that's a whole debate there. But there's. Also, um, what to wear for a photo shoot. And we do have some suggestions for people online. We have julian, the dreamer, who says they have a web and speaking resource with products on the way that encourage preteens and teens to become entrepreneurs. So their story idea was to pitch it to a mom blogger to give tips for them on how to raise business and finance. Heavy kids. Love it.