Lessons

Lesson Info

Referral Generation

So what are some of the compelling offers that you could actually make? There's a couple things that that I really like to tell people do if you can come up with something for a referral partner that I call it outrageously talk a ble and I don't I don't know if spellcheck would be ok with talking below are not, but it's a word that I love I really think that one of the things that happens with companies that get a lot of word of mouth, a lot of referrals because they just do something so unusual or extraordinary or, you know, unexpected on dh, so consequently, people just can't not talk about them, right? So what could you do that would so thoroughly surprise a client after the fact, you know, during the process of working with them that would just make them talk? You know, zappos is another one of those cos it sort of becomes a cliche to talk about because, you know, everybody talks about them, but, you know, one of the things that they know it's sort of a well known secret now that m...

akes sense, but they typically will take some percentage of their orders, and if you click the three to five days shipping standard shipping, they'll they'll run them to the dock that night and you'll get him the next morning. And they found that you know, by taking about twenty five percent of their orders and doing that with you know they found the people are just like so freaked out there like I ordered that last night you know, but las vegas they ran to the airplane I got that thing you know, the next morning I wasn't expected until the end of the week on dso people talked about them and referred them really effectively because they were doing something that was not only unheard of it was it was unexpected, you know? That's what's so funny about expectations many times have you promised you know, somebody let's say that let's say they told you hey, I don't need this till friday right? And you know, you got a tomb on wednesday and they were just over the moon, right? But let's say they said I don't need this still friday and you say, oh no, I'm going to get to you on wednesday and they're like, ok, that'd be cool but then you get it there on thursday, right? Still a day ahead of when they said but a day after you promised and all of sudden they're angry right? So exceeding people's expectations is really a big part of the game and the nice thing is for a lot of industries it's not really that hard right? Because people aren't really doing that much that surprises us anymore I worked with a auto dealer that would somebody would buy car. They find out where they did business actually is part of financing and stuff, you know, they would they would get all of that kind of information. They would collect it all and they would ask him, do you mind if we send, you know, just a little thank you to the office? Well, nobody said no to that, right? Well, it would be this giant balloon bouquet, right? And so, you know, the person would come walking through the cubicles and set it down on the person's death score sits up, you know, five feet in the air and you know, everybody, every single person that walked by that day kind of did it, you know, what do you got going on there? Of course they would have to explain. Well, it's, you know, it's really embarrassing, but, you know, it is my car, you know, car dealer said this to me. Everyone's like what? They got so much business or opportunities at least I should say, because they just forced people to talk about them. So what could you do that would just be so outrageously unexpected it doesn't have to be something that is, you know, outside of who you are or your brand but it just has to be something that they're not expected. You guys want to throw any of those on you would think about that? Anybody out there in the duct tape, we'll ask him and universe have, how about when it's about things you could do that would be so outrageously talk a ble that people would effectively refer you without even knowing they were doing it? Well, you're going back to the exceeded expectations and in the contracting realm, it's fairly easy to exceed expectations and press people. So for us, it's just kind of sitting a common expectation for what people would think with the contracting company and then just, you know, really exceed that get there early, you clean up the job site at the end of day, you know, just things that is not that much more time, but everyone lumps contractors into one and so it's, fairly easy for us to kind of do that, and then people just say, well, and they want to talk about yeah, the joke in my neighborhood is, you know, when we have some project we need done, we'll call three contractors right to get three bids will hire the first one that shows up right, because it might be the only one that shows up, you know, even give us a bit. Well there's something else at him that was a uk yeah, this's a few years ago I worked with an h back contractor and there's really nothing exciting about heating and air conditioning and when they were finished their air conditioning jobs typically they would take a picture of the family in front of the air conditioner and they put this onto a greeting card using a tool like send out cards or something like that and send these to them on the anniversary of the purchase of the air conditioning unit to remind them of maintenance and as a greeting card, you typically don't throw that out either, so they'd have this greeting card e they're sitting on the mantle or somewhere in the home and other people would walk into the home and look at it. But why do you have a picture of you and your family in front of your air conditioning unit? And so it becomes very talk a ble at that point and so they were able to actually bring in a fair amount of business doing that yeah, that's anything you could do to personalize the experience, I think does that there's ah anap and instagram app called post a gram you're familiar that it's pretty cool a lap souto take a picture and then you just put it over to post a gram and it actually sends a postcard with the picture on it with the pretty picture on so obviously you put the address in class like ninety nine cents right to do the whole thing postage printing you know everything all in I use that all the time I go to a lot of conferences and people you know, it's kind of goofy people want to do pictures with authors and stuff and I you know, I do a handful of those world we all have it taken on my camera and then I'll send him that post a gram and it's just like wow, you know you won't believe what I just got so think about that with your customers you know something of that nature anything you can do to kind of personalize really those blown boy I've been in the financial industry forever and one of the things that's fun is when you meet people you're talking about finances kind of born but usually learn personal information about them and if you can send them like articles about you know and we always try to pick like the most kind of insignificant so they know wow, they were really paying attention because I just barely mentioned that and now they just sent me an article about it or, you know, give them tips I'm food works we want to know I had a uh and an age actually an agency pr agency that I was doing some work with marketing work you think that'd be competitive but they needed strategic work right on dh what they would do is they would go have a client meeting and about a week later they would send over a homemade they found this shop but everything was really very you know it had that very small homemade local field they would send over a cherry pie and you know his goofy zits and of course they had customs stickers printed up and stuff in school fees that sounds I mean again another thing that people just couldn't stop talking about so think about the little touches like that nonprofit partner oh you have some from absolutely they definitely dio so it was some of these creative folks are tired tuning into creative live I bet you we've got some sense I hope so so tear says wedding clients are typically one time only so what they do to personalize their service and keep on top of mind is they send anniversary cards to all of their couples on dh actually their wedding floral design company so nice nice somebody else recently bought dorian dorian recently bought a car from a dealership that two weeks later sent a ten of cookies and a thank you card um and I see itunes gift certificates from three eighteen media and three eighteen mia also one thing I do is a roared my clients for speed scope crude can be a real problem with webb projects so I reward client fast clients on my season has not been nothing from going on over here I like to if I can't look like peggy stinson says lots of people in germany do not want to talk about meeting a coach like personal coach so how about for those industries where it is something more personal or you know, not something you want to brag about it's a real challenge quite frankly because yeah, I mean that I mean even weight loss and you know, I mean there's lots of industries you know, that people don't want to go out and brag now unfortunately in the weight loss thing a lot of times when if they've had the results, you know, people just ask him anyway, right? But that is a tough one and that's we're really we're going to talk about strategic partnerships and that's you know, people like that really have to rely on that so who are the people you know, advising you know, those those potential prospects on dh so I think we'll really get into that because yeah that's a real challenge it's hard to you know it no matter how many balloon bouquets you send, you know, there's some people that may not want toe one actually acknowledge that there in therapy right there at the moment is something all right? So a couple more types of offers of nonprofit partners this is actually one that that I have used with tremendous success over the years. Now, there are lots of not for profit agencies out there that deserve and need and want your support. If you find one that you're particularly interested in, I find that partnering with them in a way that obviously you support their mission. I mean, if you want to write him a check, you know, writing the check it, so I'm not really talking, I'm not talking about going out there and just looking for some agency that you can do a marketing deal, I really think that that if if it's somebody that you truly want to support, their mission here is a great way to do it and actually have it be mutually beneficial, ahs well, at some point, so you you work with them on their events, maybe your staff volunteers, you know, that really, truly be kind of becomes your partner that you embrace, you help them with their mission, and then once maybe twice a year, run some kind of a promotion that says, you know, if you sign up now, you know by now, during this window, or by this new product or something, and x percent benefits are chosen partner, that we, you know, to really believe in their mission of certainly there are a lot of people that feel good about making referrals based on that I've had a lot of people that I've worked with, the motivation so to speak was, hey, refer a client and will make a donation in your name, right? You know, that maybe feels better than and will give you fifty bucks, right? So, you know, having that relationship and that true sort of deep integration into a nonprofit and then running these kind of promotions with them, certainly also incentivized incentivizes their staff, their contributors, their volunteers, you know, their whole constituency on dh in many cases, you know, they will then turn around and be referral partner, if you will, in promoting your business. So I really love that when I think I think every business can can can take advantage of that in some fashion, and frankly, you know, for a lot of businesses, when I talk about different types of referral offers, you know, you don't have to limited toe one and so that's all we do in many cases ah, doing something that, you know, like the nonprofit khun b one angle, but then there could be a couple of these next to that I'm going to talk about you could actually work those in his well so that you have referral generation kind of bubbling or, you know, maybe every month you've got something going on that kind of keeps it in people's mind without it just being here's our referral programs sign up and, you know, get a ten percent discount. I see you doing lots of creative things work for referrals, angie, when you were up here, that was one of the things I was gonna suggest that that actually could be oven approach when you're trying to break into a new market, a new community, perhaps to actually go to a client or two and really make the deal be hey, you know, we'd love to do this for you we'll offer a free will give one hundred percent, you know, our best effort, and if you think these results are awesome, here's, what we'd ask you to do is just spread the word about introduce us to your you know, to your friends, to your business, to your network, you know, whatever it is on do that three or four times and typically obviously it's it's a commitment, an investment on your part, particularly if you do the work there will be people that you know, then turned into your referral source, you know, before you maybe have that, um, you know, that base built and that can really be in again make that deal of front deliver, you know, one hundred percent value and again, the the only stipulation is that they're thrilled if they're not deal's off, right? You better do a good job. All right, um, giftcertificates, this category generically is one that I think is another one of those that you can kind of having running at all times. So imagine that photographer that sent out the you know, the anniversary card I can remember. Who did that come from? You guys, uh, that's, not the anniversary card. Well, imagine if she actually sent them an anniversary card that I had one hundred dollars gift certificate in it, that they could actually pass to a friend. So something tangible to make a referral that would actually be a value. And by the way, if you know if any of these come back in, you know, we have a special gift for you too or something. I mean, you know, whatever you want to do, you can let your creativity really run with that, but but actually having something tangible like that that you send out, you could maybe send out quarterly to your clients. It really makes a great way. You know what happens with referrals? You fried, done this before I had this experience yourselves is that you have to kind of just find ways to keep it top of mind because what happens is the day they get that referral that's the day somebody that card from you that gives your ticket that's today somebody walks in and starts complaining about x and they go oh, I just got this you know, where is two weeks ago they had forgotten about you know that maybe you could do that or maybe the you're looking referral so so having things that air kind of bubbling up, you know, quarterly I have in fact clients that I've worked with over the years that's what we would really do we would do that gift certificate or some form of ah of a tangible sent out thing you know, once a quarter we've just scheduling that would just come do you have a sense of what's most effective with those referral gift certificates like in terms of an actual dollar amount or like a percentage off or something? You know, I I suppose it had you know, like if you're selling a thousand dollars product or engagement and you give somebody ten dollars off, you know, it's likely that's not enough incentive to do anything I think it probably needs to be enough that it really feels like I'm getting twenty five, thirty, fifty percent off again because you know, the lifetime value you know is going to be, you know, maybe ten fold that on that's a key to I mean, if what you're selling is a twenty nine dollars, product and you give nineteen dollars off and they're never going to come back again, you're basically discounting in a way that's probably not gonna be very profitable. So another one of my consultant answers there, you know, there isn't any exact number I figure out the lifetime value, and then so you're essentially saying, can I spend one hundred dollars to acquire a new client? Ok, so in that particular case so what? You know what you do you want to throw out numbers or do am I getting, uh, like, what would be the lifetime value for kind of a typical engagement? I mean, it can be thousands of dollars, sometimes tens of thousands of dollars, yeah, right, so, you know, so so what for a lot of people might make some sense is where is a place in which you would get them hooked, right? Is it three sessions you know? So enough that you know that if they're the right fit, they'll get hooked, they'll be worth tens of thousands of dollars in that probably makes sense just someone just jumped in with the really interesting thought about these, these gifts in general, so back up just a little bit, I can anti that getting a birthday card for my chiropractor and bank really feels just right but the bank usually sends a lovely card painted by a local artist the chiropractor on the other hand we were better off saying it's your birthday you deserve to feel great coming for a discount yeah, you know yeah, great yeah. Now that's a really, really great point because you and you get those um who did I get a birthday card? I can't remember who it was something like eddie bauer or something, you know and it's kind of like, you know, it was just happy birthday you know, because they could uh you know and you say I totally agree that that's a great time to make some sort of an offer I love the chiropractor idea and I also love that you know, that connection to the local artist, you know, another great way to send a bit of what you stand for that could be a great way to use your nonprofit partner right birthday you know, some sort of connection to your nonprofit partner. I've got one more great one from do muffins who said my company designs character based content once a customer ordered a necklace from us and the customer lived in the same city is our business, so we personally delivered the next the necklace dressed as the character on the necklace, we also gave the customer handful of coupons that client was a static and great referrals. I have ah, of companies sell shoes. Did I tell that he sends out the personal videos? Yeah, well, the whole audience hasn't heard this. I think it really is appropriate, so he doesn't do it for everybody. But if people call in and ask questions about where they send in e mails about, you know, this, you over that shoe, he actually gets and puts him on, and he shows, you know, the various things he talks about, he sends it out, you know? Hey, russ here's a video I made for you, you know, to help you make your decision on dh he doesn't do that with everyone but it's kind of over the top, like he probably loses money, you know, at the time he spends, but he gets so much word of mouth, you know, because of that, you know who does that right? And so all of sudden it's on facebook, it's on twitter, and so sometimes just picking a customer or two and just doing something so ridiculous that maybe you lose money, but they can't not talk about it, so you want to make sure that you pick that one wisely, somebody that's that's you know what you can do? This is another way that listening station comes in, find people that are very active on facebook, very active on twitter, you know, demonstrate that they love to chat, you know, that might be the person that the customer because you've been following them on a list that might be the customer that you actually choose toe just wow to death because, you know, they have a propensity to share. Fantastic. Now you can use klout scores. Yeah, alright, give you indication measure so sure, yeah, another indication of online influence for whatever that means. Okay, let's, talk about strategic partner network so still in the vein of referrals, right? But I want to present this in a way most people have the concept of it. You know, if you sell software, you've got a partner that sells hardware, and every now and then you do some things together. You know, kelly, you might have, you know, a business coach or maybe an accounting firm to help somebody with you know of small businesses, finances or something. I mean there's a sort of natural connections, but here's, the way I would like to present you building a strategic partner network is that you look at it as a formal network, and it starts with a frame of mind a lot of people do is they think of gosh, who could send me referrals who should I be networking with because I can get something from them right and what I would like you to think in terms ofthe is look at your best clients and think in terms of what are all the things that they actually need in their business or in their life to be successful and then ask yourself how could I build a best of class team of his many of those providers as possible so that at any given time one of my customers started saying I'm a boy I'm sure you know having trouble with this or do you know anybody who does is that that you're able to say well yes in fact I do pick up the phone, introduce him this is somebody I've I know I work with you know you can count on them you can trust them on day actually be seen as that go to person one of the things that two things happen when you when you take this approach really, really seriously first off you had mohr value to the relationship with your customer because you are seeing is somebody that can help them with anything they need right because you can bring them this trusted resource but you also start developing relationships with other providers who start doing the same for your business right? So the key though is this and I had that first point is the frame of mind okay it's not about who can I partner with because they could send me lots of business it's who would actually take care of my best customers if I refer them and build a team with that frame of mind and I'm going to show you then what you do with that how you do that first off but then what you do with that to make it pay for everybody involved people that have taken this seriously have not only built a very, very strong network that they could refer to their clients they actually end up building a steady flow of leads from this network that actually have people that want to join this network because they've created something tangible that clearly has outward value to everybody outside of the business okay, so the steps are you have to identify who's on your who you want on your team a step number one step number two is how do you recruit them? I'm going to show you a tool that I've used that is extremely effective at having the right conversations with some of these partners number three you get them activate many times if you met with somebody or you know somebody you go to a chamber event and it's like we should be yeah, we should write and that's about as far as it goes because there's no sort of logical way to actually introduce you know get in front of their customers right? So you're going to actually create a logical way to activate your network and then you're gonna look at this as an entire platform or component of your significant component of how you do business actually changes your business model in some ways if you take this seriously ok, so the first step is to identify and we can actually use the white board for this um if you like but some businesses some you know there's b to be strategic partners there's b two c strategic partners so think in terms of your list so a lot of times I'll just read some of these off here you know banker accountant lawyer insurance financial planner bookkeeper va graphic designer web designer marketing consultant copywriter, public relations, real estate janitorial placement training prior I mean have you started to see this list can actually be pretty comprehensive right? And everybody who owns a business has about eighty percent of those needs. So if you sell to business customers there those air there needs what about b to see a lot of the same needs except they also need a veterinarian, a chiropractor, a dentist, physician painter, all the home remodeling stuff maybe a fitness trainer, right? So the list can be very, very exhaustive, quite frankly so um so I didn't we need to throw those out or did I cover the list? My main point is to really you know, expand your view of who could be on that potential list it doesn't mean you'll be able to identify everybody that would go on that list but it's absolutely the first place to start the point is they think in terms of you know what I'm really trying to do is expand your view I mean this is something that that actually we could sit down you know, with these lists on dh you would probably say well had thought about that I had thought about that then at that point you might come up with two or three more that you would add to a list like this but brainstorm in that regard don't don't limit your thinking to what naturally fits into you know like a lot like we talked about on day one you know, the photographer wedding photographer has you know these kind of natural things that fit into a wedding but when we're just talking about b two b o b to c I mean open the floodgates now one of the things once you do create that list that I would recommend you do then is in some cases you may think oh yeah I know person I definitely want to contact in there because they're awesome by reputation I've heard of them I definitely want to partner with them go to your excuse me, go to your customers and start asking that who else do you have to refer? Who else do you use that you think is just awesome and I'll tell you what happened first off you're gonna get some recommendations you know, of people that show it should show up on that list that maybe you haven't heard of but you're also going to learn you have a shared contact with them, right? So now when you reach out to them which I'm going to talk about, you can actually say our shared contact you know, our shared customer I thought we ought to get together so all of a sudden you've got sort of a relationship builder now there's some tools you need to educate these perfect clients right are these perfect referral sources that you should show up on your best of class list so one of the way actually create a form that kind of answers these you know, how would you spot her ideal client? How would you present our core message a list of trigger statements turner statements for us or just you know, if you heard those phrases out of your customers that you know yeah, this is this is an ideal customer I can't tell you how many times somebody would come to us a prospect I'd be talking they would say I just really am ready to take my business to the next level in other words, they had experienced some success, but they've hit a plateau on dh that was a trigger state for us. They didn't come to us and say, I sure wish I had more marketing consulting, right? They said, I'm you know, I've hit a plateau, andi, almost in all of our businesses, they make these statements that actually are indicative of what the pain is, and we have to. And so in some cases I had clients where I had an attorney, a law firm, they would create this entire list of said, these are the kinds of things are clients say that suggest they would make a great fit for us, and they would actually come up with phrases and statements that they'd actually heard here's our offer, if you have a referral offer now here's our marketing process actually teaching people here's, what we do when you give us a referral is a really pretty good idea because there's still sort that lingering what you're gonna do, right? So we actually teach people to create, you know, this kind of ah document, how to refer you now, if you just had this list of this best of class strategic partners and you were going to go to them and show them that document say, hey, I want to teach you how to refer me probably wouldn't they wouldn't meet with a lot of success right? Ok, so what if you went to them and reverse the process? What if you started off with a letter that said you know especially if you have that shared client that said, you know so and so are shared clients said you guys do awesome work I would love it you know, I think we have some clients we could refer youtube I would love it if you would teach us the best way to introduce your product service your company to our clients so you see what we did there all of a sudden you know, your best of class people the people you wanted to have a relationship with you've essentially asked them to teach you how to refer them my experience is that you about fifty percent of the people will immediately say when do you want to meet right now here's where I need to reiterate how important it is that they don't show up on your list unless you actually would refer them to your best kind and that's what makes this work but a couple other things you might want to do with this letter is you might include a document in there that says we've included a document you know with these questions how I would spot your ideal client how to best communicate what you do we've included a document you can complete so you can teach us how we refer you to our clients and by the way, we've actually included ours with the answers just to give you a guide for how we've answered this, you're on to me, aren't you right? Because basically we're teaching them about our business in a way that they don't even realize because it's again, it's not disingenuous, we really do want to know about their business, but we've started the relationship and teach us how to refer you so that we can work together as opposed to how could we work together? Okay? And what I found is that that's starting at that point of view, is going to get you response. Now, what do you do with that response? Right? Because here's, the point where a lot of times they want to meet. Ok, so what do you do have some things in mind? First one, I think in terms of conducting a video interview say, look, I loved it, you know I'd love to tour your business, you know, interview, you put it on video, maybe there's a content opportunity, I'd love it if you would guess bog on my block. Hey, if you have a special offer that you want, you know, when we're out there, you know, working with clients we'd love, we'd love to introduce you to them obviously, you can start making referrals, you know, if particular, if you have a client or to, uh that that you could make a referral to become a customer if you can, you know, buy something from them and then rape them and review them in, you know, on a yelp we're running, you know, and their google plus page create events think in terms of actually you're proposing at some point a half day workshop for your client, the your mutual sort of shared clients where three or four of you might actually come together, work together to produce content, I think, in terms of making, I called the little black book, you know, of here's our best of class, so every one of your customers actually gets here's our little black book for everything you might need, right? It's branded with all of your information on it, but here's, our resource guide, happy to share it with you? You think any of those opportunities might actually think of strategic partner? Okay, now we could start working together think in terms ofthe co branded content sponsored content by your referral, strategic partners curated content that you actually could start working with them so many ways to actually become, I think, in terms of creating a blawg, that maybe your all of your strategic partners would actually contribute to you would own in your local community you would own whatever the subject matter you were writing about if you all did that in a local community if we could just really quick them I'm very impressed with jonathan howard in the chat room who suggested a strategic partnership between our photographer tracy on our web designer micah so that tracy can offer her clients hey I know someone who can set up a very easy really quick website announcing your baby's birth and it will be preloaded with all the photos that we just took a perfect you guys just do a little later and you know that I really appreciate that right because it also demonstrates how expansive you khun b really with this thought so kelly let's do another hot seat and again that the idea here is what's one thing you want us to help you with it doesn't have to be your greatest challenge it might be hey next tuesday I'm thinking about doing acts because I learned something here what's your greatest challenge so from out there in the internet world we'd like to we don't to have them chime in basically the group here is going to offer help to the greatest challenge of with whatever kelly extracts and then this group and that group out there gets off for their two cents ok on how to help so way got michael coming up right now one of michael maybe mike mike just remind us again about your business and where you're coming from uh primarily web development focusing on wordpress it's my favorite I know john would you agree with me on that one um accidental career so it's worked out really, really well, my favorite clients are just starting out. I enjoy the process of actually helping them figure it out. Okay, so and that's a topic that we discussed the very first day we talked about the ideal client and sort of figuring that out and you came here looking for some clarification as it relates to your business and who you want to go after um so what have you learned so far? A za result of participating here? Well, I had this idea I've had some questionable experiences with different kinds of clients. Um one in particular was a an aps company and I actually got him off of craigslist um to build his daughter's elementary school website which had become a pain for him uh cranked it out. He was ecstatic. You know what I think when I hire you to help me rebuild some of my companiesweb sites? Awesome signed me up you're awesome. I love working with you and then things kind of took ah cliff dive because I didn't actually end up working with him I got one of his assistants uh print designer who is the graphic designer for the website and suddenly I'm dealing with four people that I don't know and I lost all of the coolness all of the joy and the project was a disaster, ok? And so it really made it clear to me that I don't want to work with multiple decision maker um scenarios because I don't enjoy it and they're not going to get my best work he's and I don't I'm not getting your best work, I said, I know, right? So you learned a lot about who makes an ideal client for you? Yeah, and I would have to bring this up here because when we did day one, you said, you know, write down some personas and I had, uh, mr overwhelmed cell oprah nure, miss main street, the artist and the professional. So I have, like, a dentist now and I, uh a new accountant who's trying to transition to working remotely. I love these people and they really dig the interaction and maybe not partially that I don't have such a defined process I think is part of what they like, ok, which is an interesting space toe, right? As I'm trying to get a better process, too, to grow so from the session the other day, you took a look at the clients that you've had good experiences with I wrote down some of the behaviors than what took place within the interaction and those air now becoming your ideal client personas yeah, yeah, there are have guy craig shachtman who invented the hyper focus helmet, and I've been working with him, uh, for over a year, and it was totally accidental. Um, but it was that it was a con isil tate of process, um and it's been a lot of fun, right? And then I think that it's that back and forth that drives me, I will give you way more than what you're paying for with pleasure. Okay, well, you touched on an interesting point there because a lot of times when we think about ideal client, we you know, we talk a lot about target market and some of those sort of demographic types of characteristics for the target market, but what you're starting to talk about is more the behavioral characteristics and being able to identify that, and I think that that's actually something that aa lot more of us need to be doing. We understand some of the traditional types of characteristics that you know we can very quickly identify but it's actually more the way they behave, the things that they appreciate, those are the things that we need to take a little bit of a more more focus on, yeah I tend to swear a lot I've been pretty good at keeping it in check here and it used to like bother me because it would slip out and be on the phone and I found you know what if they don't if they really respond strongly to that then maybe it's not gonna work because I'm really going after people who like my energy and then I can do a better job and they're more likely to so to buy into what I'm what I'm about right and I think there's a lot of truth to that as well and that our ideal clients often look a lot like we do it is so taking that into consideration as well yeah some of them are just his bald is I am so it seemed to me like in that scenario where you got past now to the staff and then it turned into not a fun project anymore it kind of seemed to me you got sucked into a scenario that happens all the time you'd already built that trust and that relationship and then you assumed that that was passed and all of a sudden you were working with new people that didn't have that trust and have that relationship and I think that even though you want to keep your process really loose I think you have to I understand your process and you have to actually then in say like that passing off that happened you almost should have started over again and said here's the process exactly, but you have even if you don't want to define it as you know, button down like you know you have to fill out these eight forms before we can do anything I do think you need to communicate it you need to know what it is and then just define it as loose layers as tightly as you want, but I do think that you probably suffer a little bit or people that want to stay loose because they want enjoy the energy working together when you find the right match that's awesome when you don't find the right message it's really a disaster pain, right? And because not everybody works that way, right? And so I think it would really be important for you to define your processes and try to stick with some boundaries and make sure that you're educating people again. It's all the expectations you know, the people that you ended up working with had different expectations, right? Right, right long process is what made me jump on a plane and come out here because I know I see that the fruits of your process I think the other thing that goes along with that now is being able to take what you've learned as far as the ideal client goes and being able to incorporate that into the marketing kid that was one of the concepts that we talked about on the very first day, and I think that this is also something that a lot of us don't do a very good job of is really identifying who that ideal client is on your website, because what once you've told people what your ideal client looks like, people can kind of self qualify as well and say, well, you know what if I kind of don't meet the characteristics that they're talking about here, I'm probably not going to be a very good fit in this scenario, and I think that that's something that we all need to do a lot better job of. And so the marketing kit is something there that you can take away now that you've identified the ideal client building out that persona and describing that in your marketing kitten on your web site as well, right? Right? Or even just like the landing page that talks to that, that guy in that language, I mean, I gave it so you're saying occasionally, I swear, and sometimes it slips out, you know, it's, just part of my energy, I mean, I think that you know, you I don't think there's any reason to hide that because they're definitely people that I think that's unprofessional and they're definitely people who think that's cool that's you know that's who I am to exactly right and it and that also sort of speaks to the client experience as well. So join has a suggestion online she says that maybe you should find an industry that you like designing web sites four and they tend to have those sorts of people working in that industry specialize in that and really just become the best so that then people there are referring you to all of their their you know, their networks like thank you e u right now any other comments here, kenneth? Yeah there's another one crystal with a k because should micah should look into strategic partnerships with lawyers who specialize in startup paperwork patent attorneys right on attorney it's great thanks for the suggestions, everybody, seriously, any other comments or questions from our audience here? Any revelations about your own ideal clients? I think a couple of them you have spoken to me about that. Is there anything that you can share? I've got another great suggestion from the lounge san diego rob I think michael should do a short e book on supporting on supporting set of auto responders emails that would teach people the basics of what to consider and plan before they waste spend slash waste money on their website maybe drop a few profanities thanks my way really one more little segment here to finish up with lead generation and it's something I call speak for leads I really think that that every business regards to what they make or sell can benefit from getting to a pony podium now some of my favorite ways are to go to your strategic partners um and say you know, I've got this killer presentation people love it it's educational it's really valuable it shows him all kinds of tips things that they want to know on guy you know, I'd be happy to do that for free of charge of course you know, for your client base so you effectively get referred into a speaking engagement one of my favorite ways I mean, you can create your own there are a lot of work and so if you're really trying to get started doing this get referred because one of things I also found that happened at least with me was that every time I got in front of a group there was somebody else out there in the audience that wanted to speaker and so you know, they would come up at the end say I've got my tuesday leads group and we need a speaker to so just regardless of what the group is, you know start start getting out there and doing it I always like to tell people to cut a deal you're doing these talks for free but they have value right so what I typically tell people or any time when people would ask me you know, to do a group you know, talk to their group and of course they don't any budget I mean they were looking for a free speaker I'd say well look I generally charge well the block you know, for a speaking engagement but I'd love to help you out and all I really ask is that I can have say the names of everybody that attends or the email addresses of everybody that attends or that I can at the end in a very nice soft gentle way you know tell him about my business and what we do and maybe even make him an offer on dh so I kind of talk about that is like cutting a deal you know? So make sure that you don't just show up and and because I had this happen to my children said now my group really doesn't like to be sold to so you know you can't mention anything and you're kind of well why am I here right so so get that up up front educate like crazy goes back to one of the questions we had before I give it away I don't tell people you know here's kind of what you ought to do and if you want to know how to do what you gotta hire me I mean I just you know, I lay it all out because I'm guessing that there's somebody in the audience they really just wants to make sure I know how to do it and that's who I'm looking to hire make sure that you do set up some way to collect those addresses if you can email addresses and you know by having some offer like we have a free download or or you'll fill out this evaluation and I'll give you the I'll give you a copy of the slides, you know that certainly a lot of times people want that to make some kind of a trade to get those email addresses it's okay to have a simple called action I think in most and and again maybe that's to sign up for something or maybe that's to actually have a something that they could you know, maybe they go into your fund like you're free evaluation or something. So in terms of presentations, a lot of people speaking, getting up in front of a group is, you know, kind of a scary thing to do they don't really know, you know, what could I say? What could I do here's my process really for creating presentations I actually start um analog I actually by that I mean pen and paper I actually right out you know, a couple things here's what I want them to understand when we're done you know, here's the journey that I'm going to take them on so it's kind of like yours are start here's what I you know, here's the pain I wanted to understand, you know, here's the solution I want him to understand and here's what I'm going to end with right? And I have many, many times we'll do that some people are mine mappers and they like using some of those tools, but I just kind of write that those sort of those key points out um again include who you are include your story you don't don't worry about being the world's most polished speaker if you're passionate about what you're doing if you delivering value I can't tell you one time I went to this I was invited to this event and went and saw the speaker and never say oh yeah this guy's great, you know you really it is an attorney um and it gets up there and, you know, he's doesn't really look like, you know, it doesn't look like you're downtown attorney, you know, with the two thousand dollars suit on, you know, kind of thing, I mean he's all kind of frumpy and gets up there and he's leaning on the podium and just kind of, um well, you know, he starts out like I'm thinking you know, this is this is going to be painful, you know? It was just he just told stories the whole time that we're perfect and we're so engaging that I came away at the end of the thing thinking he was all you have to do is be yourself is and I think that that's where we really get kind of hung up on speaking is that the real fear is that you're being judged as a professional speaker, and I think you're really being judged on your office authenticity, quite frankly, along with obviously something of value that I I think where people get in trouble is when they actually try to be something they're not on dh that's, you know, that's probably most stressful thing that that you could do to yourself as a speaker. Um, I actually like to think in terms of, you know, your job, really there is kind of more like a mentor would be, so you're not going to be the brilliant person that shows everything that you know, you're really just trying to help the audience come to realization of something maybe that they haven't accepted terms of being a more effective speaker. I'll give you my here's, here's, another one, my sort of softer moments. Um I when I first started doing getting in front of groups somebody gave me this tip on guy I used it every single time regardless of the size of the of the audience I walk up in front of the audience and pretended every single one of them loves me of you know hope at the end actually do but it's amazing it's starting from that point of view, right? Because it doesn't really matter if they do, but I think when you start from that point of view it just I don't know takes a load off me anyway um becoming head head weii do love each other watch if you're not a ted person if you want to learn how to speak on dh what's so funny is that's a great example of people that are really authentic? Yes, there are some incredible speakers there but there's also these scientists and engineers and geeks that air really uncomfortable looking on the stage but they have such amazing stories and that sort of that arc of the stories that's natural to the ted talks watch a bunch of ted talks if you want to learn how to be a better speaker practice that's my point about shooting free throws you know, practice speaking I used to tell people that I when I first started my first talk was like to the knitting club I think um and it might have actually been a branch of the knitting club I'm not sure but but you know get in front of people just do it that's the only way to learn toastmasters you know if you have a toast masters in your community is a group that's for a long time has really been big on helping people practice in a safe environment there's a couple books nancy torto who probably ought to do creative life quite frankly has written a couple books slide ology and resonate that I wouldn't tell you duly noted I e that I would tell you to pick up really, really brilliant stuff and if she's actually out here too beyond power point there a couple you know I won't have time to go too much depth in here but I've seen some people do some really creative things where they walk on stage without without actually a planned presentation and just say what questions can I answer for you or what question you three and you three and you three sure the math worked out on that you know, get together come up with like the four things you want to know about this topic right and they'll get together and they'll do that on dh then the entire presentation will just be one hundred percent you know on delivering exactly what u nine people came to hear right? So think in terms of really kind of you don't have to do the standard forty slides in forty minutes stand up there and you know click, click, click you can really do some things where you you collectively engaged the audience toe actually, you know maybe give them give them a case study over like pick one of the businesses and say ok, you're going to be our case study we as a group you know we're gonna work on you know, here the seven steps, right? So here's our framework but is a group we're gonna work on, you know, building a case study for that business? I think in terms of I had I went to a presentation one time when they posed a topic and they said, ok, here's the topic we want to cover today and then he said everybody had laptops they said everybody go out search find everything you can right now on this topic is the top you don't know that much about, you know, we want you to go out and research this and then as a group we're going to put together a whole presentation on this topic I mean there's some really fascinating things you can do that that air hot and far more engaging than necessarily just sitting in a group and presenting so the last pieces we get in front of a group you need to get really comfortable with asking for them asking for money, asking for a sign of, you know, asking for some action that they that you want them to do, and I'll give you my formula so let's say that you are speaking to a group and you actually have my case like a course or you actually have a starter program that that you'd like to introduce them to or some some way that you get them into your hourglass a little deeper, maybe some kind of a try, I find this really disarming to get in front of a group and say, look, I'm going to give you an hour's with awesome information, I'm just gonna tell you up front, I've also got something that I want to introduce you to that I think you know, it's a special offer, it's, you know, if you listen for forty minutes here and you think what we do is cool, you're going to appreciate this offer, so you kind of disarming, right? And so they're so they're not sitting there thinking what's he going to sell me when's he going to tell me, right? You've kind of set the table for that, and I find when I started doing that, they're kind of relax, you know, and again, this is in a lead generation presentation, you know, um so then, about halfway through um I will actually say something like I remember I told you about that offer that we're going to do just so you know we've got this course it's coming up it's going to start, you know, this date and by the way here's what it costs and you given the full retail price it's fifteen, ninety seven whatever it is right? I thought you know, I thought I'd tell you about that now just could you see how it kind of fits in to what we're talking about, right? So that's going in and out of character here but but but that's what's so that's what you're telling them right? So in the middle of this thing fifteen, ninety seven it's got expensive but ok, I'll keep listening and then at the end you reveal a reason to act today, right? So you get you've already set the table for fifteen, ninety seven you get to the incident look, you guys have been awesome if you appreciated this information, you know, we're doing this course, you know, starts next week and you know, because I'm here today and because I've made a deal with the host toe offer this, you know, we're going toe if you sign up today if it sounds interesting, we're going to make you a special deal so you really what you've done is you've set the you've set the bar at whatever the retail price was and some of them actually made a decision already to buy and some of them were still on the fence but when you came to the end and said and we're going to offer a special deal those ones that or you've decided to buy get out of their chairs and run up to you right because you now have just made it cheaper and the ones that were on the fence now are thinking there's some scarcity here I should act now you guys have to play with whatever it is your offer is I mean it can actually be you know, sign up for this I mean it could be you guys could be recruiting you're free people that you want to work with I mean it could just be a weave two slots of people we're gonna work here's what it costs to work with us right in the midway point but we're going we're actually recruiting today to people that are that you know they have to commit to going through this process with this you know how your outline it um and you know if you're interested you know fill out an application today so it doesn't have to be that you're selling something necessary it's that process of disarm them in the front tell them how much value this thing has in the middle and then make them some reason to act today again, not every presentation that you do will follow that format but particularly if you're in a lead generation we're trying to move somebody who knows likes and trusts and maybe already tried you into a bye that's the formula that I've found to be very effective in getting front groups any questions from here or there or everywhere any questions here and start here? Can I ask a question of the group certainly who thinks that they may actually do this speaking I mean I think there's a couple of obvious ones ok? And then something I wouldn't have thought were so obvious so that's good after a she we're gonna pick on you I've uh I think it would be actually pretty cool to d'oh like I belonged to several mom's groups to dio you know, basic how to take your camera off auto um and maybe turn that into, um even like private lessons well, I just was curious because you didn't raise your hand and so you then you bring me good right didn't raise his hand because his back is killing him and he could only to this right among other rooms we're gonna get you there all right, great question killing two I was really pleased to see the hands go up so how about from duct tape were we do have some questions here and cover this little bit in the authenticity section but says our company has two major faces. One is the expert, but not so great in front of a crowd networking, et cetera. The other is not an expert, but is great in front of people who'd we put out there, or do we invest in making one of them better at their weakness? You know, right off bad, and maybe this wouldn't work it all right off the bat. I'd love to see those two together, quite frankly, because I think that that could be a pretty dynamic duo, because there certainly are instances again, I don't know exactly what they sell there certainly are instances when you've got to know that you know the stuff, right, there's going to be something in the audience who might actually want to buy that has to know this specifications so the experts certainly is is needed for that, but it's, that connection with the audience that that really is extremely important, and I think that, you know, you're probably going to presentations where people had really good information, but they so thoroughly put you to sleep, you didn't get any of it on d I think that you definitely have to have have that element doesn't mean you have to be entertaining, quite frankly. You know, people that that I think just are able to communicate in simple terms with with stories and take you kind of on a journey that you end up at the place that you need to end up that's, you know, that's, actually the artist speaking absolutely, and I just follow up on that can't find the oh, here it is again, three eighteen media has been very active. Thank you for all of your contributions suggested another great speaking tip. Bring in your strategic partner network and do a panel discussion. You bet you bet you can't do it on google hangouts, even maybe, but yeah, but yeah, absolutely not a great way to bring your strategic partners again, so I know we're a few minutes over, but I have another great question that's related to speaking so jw create do use evaluation forms after speaking or teaching a course? If so, what are the best kinds of questions to ask so that it could be used as testimonials or for promotional purposes? Yeah, I really like using first off it's actually, a clever way to collect ads dress is right, so so that's one reason, but, you know, I want to know, obviously, some of the basics, you know, what did what's the I like to make it simple. What's the one you know, greatest lesson you got today. You know, what's the one thing you didn't get that you were hoping you would get because that's all great information for me tto have them write a testimonial. What I typically ask is if you were going to tell a friend about this, what would you say? Because what it does is it actually forces them to write it in the voice of a testimony. So that's, what I'm really trying to get because then I could take that exact wording. Assuming they check the box, it says I could use that as a testimonial. I could take that exact phrasing that they use sometimes and uses his content. That's really great. All right, folks, who just just just really quick. We typically when we do speaking engagements or workshops, we videotaped testimonials on their way out so that we can use those. Yeah, anything you can capture right away the better, because, you know, everybody gets home and the excitement kind of dies down and two weeks later, they're thinking what? You know, I you know, I said I was going to do that testimony, but yeah, capture him on the spot that's awesome.