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Branding and Product

during this segment we're going to talk about branding and products something that I it took me a long time to actually find and sort of decide on how I wanted to bring my business and what products I wanted to sell so it in the beginning I was a bit of a digital person I didn't like teo to complicate things by throwing products in but it was because I didn't understand why I had to include products into my into my business I didn't essentially value what I was doing and I didn't recognize that there is no value in digital files so it took a little while for mi teoh get that get that going in my business and so I wanted to share with you you know where I'm at it with my branding and where I met with the products that I offer to my clients because now that I know the importance of um and the importance of what we do is photographers you know I want everybody to know that I want everybody to be able to share what we do without with our clients and create beautiful images for them but not...

only that create beautiful pieces of artwork they're going to hang in their home you know be proud of our work so that is printed beautifully and hangs and it just so proud to show their friends and family that come to their house some of the products that I sell uh they probably more high end products it took me a while to go through different different companies printing and album companies and places like that to find the right company for may someone that sell products that really represented my brand and I had teo to sort of go through that process again off recognizing in my style recognizing what my images you know how they were created what I put into them what I loved what what really spoke to me so finding the right products to represent my photos was really important because um you know that's how my work is displayed that's it's also what were going to cover in marketing as well you know how we're marketing ourselves through our products that we provide our clients and it's some it's always going to be a bit of an evolution as well you know your products are going to change along time but one of the most important things about the products that we provide our clients is that it's really important that we provide them with something that they can't create themselves I'm finding products they can't find on the shelves of shops I'm finding products that they can't you know order online by uploading a us bay full of images I'm creating beautiful exquisite imagery on on papers on canvases and acrylic prints that are gonna last a lifetime and the quality that I provide them is explained in my pricing and pressing and product information that I send them it tells them you know that their images of printed on archive archival quality paper museum grade paper it tells them about the fibers that that their albums air wrapped in the leathers him the beautiful materials that I used I want them to know how incredible these products I want to share with them the value ofthe them so that when they see my price it doesn't matter how much I cost they've gotta have my images they've gotta have these products because they're going to last a lifetime and they're gonna you know hopefully I represent my brand and a really good way that helps me mark and continually and like we've talked about previously in the evolution of my branding with my locos having having a logo that that really is the base of my brand it's good to speak about me as a photographer and my business and you as well you know your logo your branding it's got to represent you that's what people see that's what they recognize represents you they identify you with that so your website your packaging your promotional materials you know they should all be they should all include your logo absolutely everything the logo should be everywhere even when we've talked about water marking images your logo should be on there when I create slide shows and things like that from my clients my logos on there my business names on there because when they share them they're sharing my business my brand with all of their friends and family around the world so yeah it's it's really incredible too to be able to do that and be proud off my logo and my branding that's out there yeah I think we have a question I just wanted to know do you currently sell digital files at all I do I do actually because everybody does want did digital falls and we live in a digital world today everything is digital they want toby to share those but to get around that I include beautiful products and I'm glad that you said that actually because I do get it e mails and questions from clients or potential clients when they're enquiring saying we're not really interested in products we just want the digital files and when I respond to that it's usually always the same response and it comes with you know thank you very much for contacting me and blah blah blah are all the nice things that you include in your email and then I say I currently don't offer a digital only package because I strongly believe that you are you're going to hire a professional photographer you deserve to receive a professional product that's how I want my work represented and that's what I want them to understand from may all those other people that they've inquired with because when anyone send you on an inquiry they contacting ten to twenty other photographers because it's in our nature to price hunt it really is it's in our nature to find the cheapest best option for anything I'm guilty of it with everything I do so when when they are contacting you you have to share with them you know how much you value your work and that you know you want it printed beautifully but in saying that um sentence that I reply with I'm kind of putting a little bit of doubt in their mind that all those other come all those other businesses that they've contacted that do digital only they might not necessarily you know I'm saying you know if you get a higher professional you need to get a professional product you know let's really represent what we're doing let's put it on paper let's hang out on people's walls it's one of the most important things that you can ever do for your client because when I walk into my grandparent's home and I've said this so many times there's an image hanging on their wall off my grandfather's grand parents it's you know it's been around for a hundred years it's gonna live on for another couple of hundred years and when everyone goes to my grandparent's house they will fight over who's gonna get it one day I know that I'm going to take a really incredible photo off it and reproduce it but how where al photo is going to be in another hundred years you know I want a picture of myself with my family hanging on my grandson's wall and I wanted to stay there for another hundred years so it's really important that we understand that we're not just selling products to make money we're creating with creating pieces of artwork they live on for hundreds of years and finding the right companies that do that for you is really really important as well so establishing your brand creates trust as well be confident in what you do put your branding out there and share it with everybody and let them know how much you love it and how much you are proud of what you do if when you value what you do and what you create for your clients they will value you but if you're not selling yourself and it's not it's not that you actually you know you're going out there and doing big sales pitch you're just putting your brand out there when you're doing it doesn't have to be forceful around people's and shoving it in their face every five seconds but just be proud of it and they will they will then see that value in you as well when you do put your brand out there in the form of products and packaging and you know online material you know really commutes communicates to your clients the expectation that they have from you and your services so we're setting those expectations so when a client comes to us they hire us for session and you know at the beginning when they're enquiring we send them the pricing the information we told them what they're going to get with sitting expectations for them so we got to follow through with that so keeping that brand you know going and really sort of um making it the best that it can be for you and your business finding those incredible products and branding it in a way with your logo and all of those other things that really communicates who you are as a person it's it's just going to have that effect on your clients that they're gonna you know be able to trust in you and they're going to know what to expect from you from this service in and their product as well but yes this is my logo that we eventually came up with and as mentioned it was created by kim laughing girl purse and she does such incredible simple work but when I was communicating with her about my logo on what I wanted I just said city you know I don't want anything sort of eerie theory because that's that's not me as a person I wanted I'm fairly grounded um I wear a lot of black I told her and you know I like things simple I don't know distracting but she's obviously understood may and through communicating on facebook probably looked me up and I like to think that those little flicks at the end of the s and at the beginning of the l kind of represent my fringe you know how I look at it gets like my friend it flix so for me that simple it's simple it has my business name but it's also got a little bit of flair and having that confidence in yourself and in what you do you know you can portray that into your branding into your logo feel free to pick up the mic yeah just looking at the packaging I know we haven't talked about that yet but is that something that you'd normally would present on your website or your facebook page or anything or is that kind of like a surprise when they get their items and picked them up that this is what your packaging looks like yeah I do love that element of surprise with my clients but whenever I have a new product or a new way of branding I like to do a bit of a block post because it's sitting those expectations by communicating with them and you know showing them this is why you need to hire a maid you know because you're going to get something really incredible but I'm going I'm going go on about that a little bit more in in a second because sorry we'll do one more question before I go on um you say you sometimes offer digitals in packages when you offer that do you give them a print release for them to be able to print there the photos are off on their own or did you just offer the file on the can't really too much with it yet you know I do offer a print release with my digital files and every every package that is sold by may I have four packages they all come with digital files and they receive with those files an information sheet so it tells them you know about the about the files that tells them how they created tells them how they can print them and I always put on there if you would like to print these images larger than a specific size please contact me so I can help you find the best the best printer available for you because I want my work displayed in such a quality way and you know what I always have a bit of a laugh and a joke I'm not quite sure of places where you print here that that lower and you know like twenty cents twenty cents six by force and things like that but I always say to my clients in australia please don't print them a big w you know they have a bit of a laugh and a joke and I know you know the quality is so bad you know but if you want to print these images please contact me I'd be happy to share with you you know some some really great labs that can that can provide you with a quality product so yeah but they are getting a product from may they're getting an exquisite product which I'm going to share with you in a moment but that's so that I know my work is going teo you know it's gonna hang around it's going to be there for for generations for a lifetime question just there was one time I walked into a client's house and there look look we had your work printed and it was all blue all of it and it was canvases and this is before when I just a digital and it was awful there isn't it gorgeous I think yeah it was so horrible and so now you have if I think I'm going to be changing my packaging a little bit but right now to get to be able to purchase all the files you have to purchase while art first and so they know what it's doing what it should look like I can't agree more and it's funny because for a long time in my studio just before in my old studio actually just before you walked in there on the wall I had to to prints hanging one was printed on cheap cheap paper like from a cheaper cheaper lab and the other was printed on the finest paper that I provide my clients with so I can show them the difference and that's really important to be able to share with your clients because you know what they probably didn't see that but when a client walks when when when somebody walks into a client's home like a friend or a family member the majority of them are friends because family members are always going to say oh my god that's beautiful I love it but when it's a friend and they walk in and they see an incredible photo you know like these printed terribly they'll say all that's lovely but when they see it printed on big on my canvases that had come with a seventy five year lifetime guarantee they're going to say wow that is incredible because you can really see the difference in the quality on dh that's something that I love to share with my clients as well because you know when they when they start to hear me talking about the value ofthe product and the difference between something that's going to fade in a couple of months because you know it's printed on plastic and then the inks and cheap and nasty and things like that or we're printing on something that's gonna you know look better with age almost they tend to they look incredible unless they're in direct sunlight we don't do that but that's all about the communicating process with your clients as well so yeah moving along teo identifying a style you don't have to go out and look for it or copy somebody else's it's in you it's what you're attracted to so when I walk into a shop and it's I love homeware shops and I go in and I think all that look nice in my house but I already know I'm gonna put it in my studio and then I'll go home and I'll go look what I bought look at my boy that's incredible so um I tend to go with things that I'm attracted to and it took me a long time to to realize that I was actually allowed to do that I was allowed to be myself I was allowed to be my own you know creative person because a lot of people don't like to call themselves an artist when their photographer because they consider you know artists to be either incredible drawers or painters and things like that but when I think about what I do with something like that you know I found a concept I got inspired I made it I created an image captured it I composed it I then art worked it and now it's hanging on a print how am I not an artist I created that nobody else did that's mine it's me it shares what I love to do and it tells a story to people that see it so I'm an artist I'm not ashamed to say that I am and I think that when you when you look at that you know you can start to really identify your style you can start to identify the things that you love to do and the colors that you incorporate into recessions they're the textures if you like those things the props that you like to buy the wraps the everything absolutely everything the bonnets headbands all those things I have a now and then go through my studio and I take it everything that I no longer use that I kind of look at and go yeah well I'm not really a fan of that anymore and I remove it because when my clients come in and they choose things they've got a choice they're always going to choose something I love so I got a I got an email once from a photographer I had mentors and and she was like you know I'm having a really hard time editing you know this image and I said on I looked at the image and I said well what is the problem with it and she said it's the um the blanket and I said or she said I just don't even like and I said well why is it in your studio why is it there as an option you know identify you your style and remove everything that doesn't fit with what you love your studio and your business should be filled with things that you love not what you know and it's okay to have things in there that other people have if you really love them but just don't have them because somebody else has got them in is using them so identifying it didn't hear in all of us you just have to look within and not at everybody else and you know when we talk about being unique it's I mean half were all different we're not shape rural unique in every single way we have our own little you know bitten pieces going on that make us a little bit quirky a little bit funny a little bit shy little bit outgoing were all different in every single way so what makes you unique and I think my branding makes me unique I haven't seen a logo out there like mine actually no I have but someone had completely copied it but that's fine but they're obviously still trying to find their style and they don't know that they're unique because they probably be never been told that they're unique I'm a unique person because I've been told I'm unique I just didn't believe it for a long time but now I believe it because I can create something like that that nobody else has ever created before and it's in all of you to be able to do that so yeah those products have to be able to represent you your brand your style and make you unique so that when your clients find you online they're like wow this person really stands out from everybody else they're different I need them my favorite clients of the ones that can't afford me but they find a way to afford me because they love my style they love my brand and I have communicated with them the value in what I do which is incredible thing but yeah I think kenna has a question I do I just wantto push here a little bit in terms of I love what you're talking about that you that we are all unique but I know a lot of people struggle including myself and identifying what those things are I love that you talked about you walk into a store and you see what you're attracted to but do you have any like exercises or things that have helped you identify what makes you unique that that people could do or do you know are there other people having problems with that as well I don't think I've ever done any specific exercises for it but I can ask once what was my problem you do incredible work what's your problem it's finding the confidence I think within yourself to look for it and then share it and the easiest thing for may is that um you know I don't share a lot of my my personal history and things like that and I think that when we look at people who are succeeding in certain areas of the business and a war different genres off off photography or even other other businesses outside photography when we see them as successful people we don't often realize what it actually took to get there um you know so it's seventeen years ago I moved to brisbane from a small town and responds a big city I had fourteen dollars in my bank account of backpack and I was nineteen years old I had nothing so everything that I have created now was through hard work but had come from nothing so it's that attitude that mentality of I've got nothing to lose I had to stop worrying though and be told you know really start worrying about what other people are doing and comparing myself to them because I wass and it's you know it's funny because we've created this thing incredible group which you know has so many members for this boot camp and when I go on there there's so many people saying like my page like my page and you know I was one of those people that did a block post years ago and put like fifty images on it and I was looking for gratification but not from clients from other photographers when I stopped looking for gratification from other photographers I started to look within myself and find those things find that I was unique I didn't have to worry about what they were doing when I start focusing on other businesses and other photographers I started to realize what it was in me that made me unique and I've got the confidence and then I had to think to myself right I've got nothing to lose if it doesn't work I'm gonna throw myself out there you know I've had people say how did you get on creative life because you know my life has blown up in the last two years I've managed to have incredible contact with people around the world and you know something I'm so grateful for but you know it wasn't like I'd won the lottery or had been given a ticket actually had to put myself out there to do it and if you're too scared to put yourself out there and communicate who you are as a person how unique you are and what you do and what you create people aren't going to find you you're gonna blend into the sea of photographers that are already out there so find that confidence within yourself and have a think about what do you have to lose don't be scared about what other people think fear is the number one thing that will hold you back from doing anything or achieving anything that's it invents the hive we're all incredible people and we have so much to share with the world it's a wonderful thing so there are no exercises except for give yourself a kick up the butt get out there and do it and share what you create it's such a it's such a wonderful thing but yeah no worries like exercises exercises I don't know so let's move on to my products um like I've been saying and if anybody has watched my first class I was I shared in there my pricing and and information god from a few years back and you know being able to do that was it was quite scary for me back then I was still quite unknown about how much I should be charging and what I was offering and was it good enough was in you know in comparison to other photographers so I was still back then you know doing all those silly things of worrying but now I'm not now I know that I offer a quality product for quality imagery and I offer extremely good service all of my clients so I've got nothing to be ashamed of and I'm happy to share it with you but in doing that when I share my pricing information with people it's been created for me and I think that needs to be understood that I'm at a different level than the people above me and the people you know that that have been in the industry for a long time and then the people that entry level into the industry so I'm still growing and I'll continue to grow but when you see my pricing information it's not for anybody else has been created based on me and my business model um I had somebody after my first class email me and say you pricing doesn't work I've tried it they lived in the states I lived in australia they lived in a completely different area you know there are things there's so many things that come into play with that you know demographics economy experience products that's what my pricing is based on so when I share it with you it's a guide it's an example and we'll go through that will go through that old guide again in a little while and then I'll share with you what I'm what I'm currently doing so my products are packaged in a way that represents may represent my style the branding the textures the colors all of that that represents my imagery and in this particular image you can see the little usb box that my u s base come in and they're leather usb they're brown leather usb and the beautiful and I love letters I love timbers love real fibers so is carried through to everything single thing that they received um we've got the little calico bags and then you've got you know the mission and the string but so much time and if it is put into the packaging of my products that I'd like to think we were talking before about that little element of surprise I'd like to think that that's the surprise when they open it because I don't know about you but when I buy a luxury item because we're alive we're a luxury item when I purchased a luxury item like a handbag and of any of it done at once and some some people watching will know the story I have never owned anything expensive and it's because I've come from nothing and I and I I don't like in money because you never know when you might need money and I you know I'm a bit of a type I won't say where but I can be a little bit tight when it comes teo letting go of money so I wanted to experience what it was like to buy something for the same cost of what I sell my products for and my my goal was to buy a nice handbag and I don't even use it it's terrible I use it occasionally but not often so I decided I was going to walk into a louis vuitton handbag store I had never been in one I was always too scared to walk into one because of the way that they would look at me as if to say you know where you don't belong in here and a last year we traveled to eight countries in eight weeks to teach workshops we had an incredible time and I thought right I'm gonna go first start with l a kind of rodeo drive I'm going to go into the luton store there I think we drove around the block four times and I didn't get out the car there was no way I was going to go in there I was so intimidated and so scared I don't know what off but just letting go of that amount of money and anyway I am we then went to new york I still didn't do it my husband said I wonder with stories here and right now it's too cold because it was snowing and anyway so then we went teo lots of other countries after that we even went to paris and I didn't buy one who goes to paris and doesn't go into a luton store yet stupid right so I go to rome and one day I woke up and I get onto the internet without saying a word to my husband and I said we're going to go and visit this down the spanish steps and I had looked out where'll over time wass and it was one block down or two blocks remember and when we got there he was like wow you know I said I just want to walk down here and we walked and we found the shop and he's like a serious and I'm going in I'm going in so you could understand that my husband owns ten times more shoes than may he likes to spend money I don't so he's like go for it you know and I went in with my daughter and she was just in heaven and I find a handbag in there and I'm like it's the smallest handbag it just so happen to be the most expensive one in there so I put it back but it was I thought the smallest one I can afford that that's fine anyway I found one I looked at it I held it I smelled it and then they wrapped it for me and then they presented me with a receipt in this beautiful pouch and when I was handed my bag and I walked out after the most incredible service I've ever received in one of the most immaculate stores I walked out and I had this bag and my husband took picture of me and we went back and you know what I did with my phone I took photos every time I peeled a layer off the packaging and the wrapping off I took a photo because so much care so much time that meant more to me the value in the time and the presentation of that product meant more to me than I'd forgotten how much money has been I want my clients to experience that when they open my products I want them to feel like that you know my rapping doesn't exactly look like they were bit on wrapping but I will get there that's my goal one day I want my albums to come in a box like there's the tissue paper and lead the string and be branded so incredibly that's my goal but I had to know what it was like tio let go of that amount of money and then feel the value in what I had that experience was exceptional and I don't know what I was scared off after I did it I had no idea what was I scared off because I've never done it before maybe I don't know I don't know what it was but now I know what it's like for my clients to let go and have a look you know that amount of money for a luxury item so the my experience has to start from the beginning and continue consistently right through to the end until till then but well touch a little bit more on that so my packaging which I think we're going to go over in a minute and then I'll share some of my products with you but my products you know the's air some of the products that I'm not currently using it in the past have used so I want to be able to share with you because you know if I show you what I'm offering now you can't see that stepping stone to what you know I've gone through so beautiful simple products this is just like a little book it's a grandma book which is such a great little product to offer as an on sale for your clients you talk a little bit kelly about the sizes and things of what you're showing us just so we can get some perspective on that I can't sorry kanna I've turned so much talking let's go back this little book here it's like a five by seven size so it's just in a little box probably about the same size is this one so it's not very big but great for grand parents and it's it's got like a little bit of a hard cover on it but it's not not a full hard cover but it's lovely thing printed on beautiful paper and then there's um a little album as well and it comes with a beautiful tornado find up prince stuck to the cover of it and it's covered in linen so all of these all of these products really represent the textures and the colors that I use that when there's probably like an eight by eight inch that previous one so this this said he is currently what I offer as my main package my large package and it sells for three thousand dollars um they get a set of three canvases they get lumi tiles they get an incredibly large um wall mount it's an acrylic wall mount that comes with it with all the different images and then they get a box with some mattered prince in it and a little album so that's an incredible product to have it's something that I've been working towards for a long time so that when when you offer your smaller packages you know having that larger package that has so much product so much stuff in it people are just going to go are the so much more value in that because you're getting so much more and that's what I want to create with my products and things like that more I'm hearing people say I don't have wall space I don't have wall space and like I understand you can go albums but how do you convince them that it's art and not just another picture thrown upon the wall they see it in my studio just from samples yeah definitely and you know it's my life I think I've mentioned it before but my products and my style of photography is not for everybody so I offer a range of products so this is my top in product and then I've got three other products below it and two of them um get two of them are a lot so it's it's it's good that way that they get that option but yet when you have something like this and when they see how incredible it is they'll find the wall space they'll take down something gilles but it's it's a funny thing because clients don't know what they want you have to share it with um you have to give them options as well but if you give them too many options they get confused and they don't know what to purchase so you give them the right options that represent you and your brand and then there's a wreck relics loamy tiles showing them how that they displayed things like that all of the pictures off my products that I take go on my pricing information I want them to see the products there but then when they come into my studio they say the products there's well on we talk through that process so the acrylic lumi towels these funds they're like really heavy and their three centimetres thick the one in the middle is a twelve by twelve inch acrylic tile and the two on either side are a twelve by eight acrylic tall so all of these products come from the same company how is he is that so easy they don't ship to the states but they called brilliant prince in australia and they have incredible products and incredible service and they just make my life so easy when it comes to products because they do all the hard work for may they have you know a great team there and they ship will wear at round australia and you you could contact them and see if they would ship to you but I just know that sometimes shipping rates can get quite expensive I know when I purchased anything from the states it's really expensive so but yeah if this this girl a lot of companies though in the states that can help you out with things like that and then this is my my campus gallery now this particular layout I offer but if they say to me you know that it's a bit big we've only got a wall space this big but we really want campuses all offer three the same size and and so it's sort of equates to that same ratio like I'll break it down for the same price so I say well if that one doesn't suit how about you know these and and that usually works for them and when we're talking about a ll these products and that suit our brand you know you have to be able tio tio identify the company and be able tio communicate those products with your clients and the easiest way to do that that I found is that I'm not great with words you've heard me stumble and things like that and I say things wrong but that's fine that's me as a person um but being able to communicate with my clients have exquisite my products are the easiest thing was to contact them and I said I want to put a description with this product in my pricing and information um what is the best way for me to do that they will bend over backwards to help you sell their product because we're keeping them in business they will do whatever it takes to provide you with the right information to sell their product they will give you wording they will you know what else do you need because if we're not using all these cos they're going to go out of business so communicate with your supply I build a relationship with them and you know like me when I ring them or a cinema a message last night because I'm still working while I'm over here for my clients that they're straight onto it you know or helping me out and things like that they write so yeah looking for the right companies that sell the products that suit your brand that you can create a relationship with its incredible and you know going on from that the quality of ofthe those products like I said and I've said before you know my canvases have a seventy five year lifetime guarantee my find out quality my find out paper you know it's it's archival quality it's gonna last forever and when I wrap up those prop those find out prince I put like a little swing tag on them and that says your prince your images have been printed on fine art archival quality paper plays handle with care they are mattered they come with the met board around them in a a cellophane bag please handle with care because they could mark easily and so on provided sort of telling them these exquisite you know be gentle with him it's like a louisville on handbag he don't drag it along the ground you don't throw it down you know it's like placed on and that's how exquisite items need to be handled and hanging prints we've talked about it when someone walks into somebody's house and they see something incredible they're like wow where did you get that from it's the best way to market your business through your clients through their experience through your products sharing them putting them out there into the world for people to see people to touch and it kind of off jump onto like a little bit of a marketing comment kind of takes me to you know I think it was like two thousand it's been two thousand six maybe two thousand year must be about two thousand six and I printed little eight by eight albums and I took them to obstetricians officers to leave in there waiting rooms people could sit there and look through them when they're holding something and they're looking at it and it's tangible and it's beautiful you know they really start teo to see that value in it when they're looking through a phone or an ipad or a laptop or facebook those images have gone something about touching and turning and reading that really holds strong with you kelly on your artwork that you provide your canvases do you have your logo printed small down the bottom as well no I don't actually I don't have my logo on there but everything else in my branding and my packaging all has my logo on it they're never going to forget it every time they they take a piece of tissue paper off or they take a little off like even my boxes have my logo written all over the top of them now so I want them to see that logo and and when I'm communicating with him prior to a session you know I'm saying I'm you know if you've got the kids you know tell them that my name is kelly they don't forget me and it's it's that saying that incredibly famous saying um people will always remember how you make them feel if you do that for somebody they're not going to forget you so when they see those campuses hanging on their wall nice where did you get that done all kelly did those you know that's that's that thing it's gonna follow through every single element of your business and what you do but you know the question if you were going to make the albums to leave in the doctor's office would you make sure that you had your branding and logo on those every page thiss stuff that you advertise with is slightly different but clients stuff I did see a campus once recently sorry a lady came to my studio for a mentoring session and she brought me some product and her logo was on the bottom so be careful when you do put your logo on the bottom that it's not distracting on the image it is great to be able to have it on there and I do know some people that do it I don't do it but that's not to say that you can't and my logo simple enough that I could actually put it down the bottom but I don't win it's for clients because I like to think that they're gonna remember who I am anyway and yeah but when you see it everything advertising it's on every page every time they ten page little pieces little pieces it's really cool and then your web sites at the end um it really plants that seed you remember where you saw that book you remember holding that book and touching it and feeling it and but you know when you're scrolling through facebook and you see an incredible photo and you think I love that a couple of weeks later I can't remember where that photo was or who she aided or something like that getting out products out there in creating you know these incredible things for our clients it's the best it's one of the best place to advertise yourself anymore questions in the studio when we goto office and there's already work there and normally they say oh no we don't need you we've got someone already and there's only like two images on the front office would you still ask to leave your car I think it's for they need it or would you say thank you and go to the next door yeah I understand what you're you're asking and I think that a lot of businesses would probably only take on one or possibly two photographers I think what I was referring to is with when you're holding a book and you're looking through it there remember doing that whether it's in a client's home or on an advertising book but I do believe that when you are contacting businesses to advertise in which will go over further in the marketing segment when you are contacting them the larger ones they already tend to have people in their advertising and they have a bit of a relationship worked out and most most obstetricians officers now in australia and in brisbane as well the large ones tend to have contracts so that people have to advertise in there for a length of time I actually advertised into very small one's one was actually an opposite a little obstetrician that worked out of a hospital so he had this small waiting room so he's an unknown he doesn't have a shop front or anything like that and another one but he was he was very busy which was great and the fact that he was in the hospital meant that he was in bits busier because he did public and private patients so I got both which was great but then the other one the other one that I advertised in it was a smaller one as well that wasn't saying from the straight it was it was big bit off the street where people actually had to go and find it so yeah the larger ones the more popular ones they tend to already have people in their advertising and we'll have contracts in place and things like that in a relationship I'm not quite sure what they entail but the smaller ones usually happy to pop something in their waiting room tables definitely but you know that's what I had to do a long time ago for marketing and you know now it's very different because we have so much social medio and everybody's online so if you can still find someone to do that in that is wonderful and we'll talk more about it but yeah it's um it is a tough one finding the right people t network with I know in your previous course you'd said you put everything online for your clients to choose from are you doing in personnel I find if I put something online my sales are so much smaller than in person because I think a lot of people now just screenshot there like I have the lo rez watermarked teo are you still doing online are you doing in person okay so pricing and how to price and all of that is going to be covered in another segment and its huge I'm going to go into lots of in depth information about that because it's an area that people really struggle with for pricing on dh how to sell and sales so yeah that is a completely another segment that we're going to do so I won't answer it now but no toe white for it because it's coming yeah because there's always a debate on whether you should do in person sales or online sales so I'm going to share with you how I do it and how I've created my products and my packages to be I would do it and do it successfully the way I do it but yeah another question okay so with packaging with branding I feel like as starting out I'm still figuring it out I don't have everything that I want and every two months I changed my mind anyway so I'm slowly building my product offerings so that I'm not taking on too much and I'm slowly figuring out my packaging do you feel that that is a hindrance does it really need to be established kind of up front you know your this's what I am this is what I'm all about as a newer photographer it seems like finding your style getting your logo having all of these things figured out your pricing all of these things just kind of run in a circle continually and there's no real starting point nor the song and it's with any business any business that anybody runs there's always a starting point um you know to to actually he look I'm out here I'm providing a service in a product but knowing where that starting point is and at what point you should be doing this this and this that's that's just evolution of your business we're going to change all the time and I think you know with showing you how my branding evolution was with the logos and things that that you could see how it changed and how you know at one point I liked this and then two months later I didn't and things like that so I know for me even though I've been doing this for a while it's going to continually change I really haven't idea off the products and the packaging that I want to do in the next few years um and you know I'm incredibly lucky to have a friend who has a packaging company and she provides me with the best products so in australia it was really hard to find quality packaging it's all over here and shipping is a nightmare and it takes for ever for it to get to us through customs so she's got you know an incredible business called bespoke packaging and we communicate with each other about that but we're always looking for new new items you know for my business and she's always like you know I've just found this or I'm I'm going there and I'm doing that but when you are starting out you know I can't recommend enough going to certain trade shows close to you and looking at all the suppliers and the products standing there like I went to w p p I recently and I was in the trade show just going through all the album companies and turning the pages and feeling the paper and talking to the supplies there about you know shipping and costs and products and things like that so it's always gonna change always and I think it's just as you grow as a person as your business grows and develops its going to continually evolve and you'll start to identify things in areas that need changing or don't need changing so there's some things in my business I'm in change for two years which is great because it means I'm on the right track I'm doing the right thing for me but when it does come to packaging you know she's got such a range of products that when I go there I'm like I just can't decide so we've we've sampled so many little things and you know I love wood I love texture I love natural tones so you know I sent her a picture and I said I would like to have um a little wooden tag that has my logo on it and then that's for the outside of any any type of packaging it's a little wooden tag yeah I mean how gorgeous is that it's something that's so different it's not paper thes of the paper ones but this still gorgeous and you can put those on the swing tags but then I have one that says thank you and you know when you say thank you to somebody that's like no it's acute that's so sweet you know I'm making them aware of it I'm making them sort of go wow this is really beautiful and putting the extra time and effort into into your products you know make such a huge difference like I said that experience of unwrapping something that was so exquisite so beautiful when you put the time and effort into it your clients will value that for sure but even right down to your tio us bees you know how you present those that's the logo but you know they can put any logo on anything like any company can so have a look around for different products and things like that and and and go with what represents your photos because I suppose like for me I have work of mentioned a couple of times like earthy texture woods you know livers things like that I wouldn't start packaging in like high gloss sharp edge white and black even though probably sits the way I dress poop it doesn't suit my style of imagery so that's gonna follow through and be consistent right throughout this well so little boxes like that craft boxes I'm not expensive you khun you can present your work in a really inexpensive way it doesn't have to be you know the most expensive packaging and I think that's what some people shy away from is the cost of things but there are companies out there like the spoke that do it extremely reasonable process and you know they don't have to be leather boxes to look beautiful like I love getting emails from my clients oh my god the packaging was so beautiful thank you so much and I always includes something in there something special in there like I don't know what chocolate or or some lollies it depends on the time of you and I'm shipping a stroke if it's chocolate it'll melt but I always include something special in there for a little hand written note taking that time to actually say thank you so much you know happy doing well blah blah blah remember their names all of those things and and they love that you know the fact that you take the time to stamp your calico bags tire bead on toe put a beautiful bow in there you know wrap it beautifully I love getting birthday presents you know everybody does and when you get a beautifully wrapped birthday present you called this is beautiful they feel the same way when they you know delivered a product say yeah another question just from what you were just saying you're are you shipping your products to your clients then rather than having them picked them up and is that based on you have people that travel a really far distance or how do you make that decision on shipping them versus having them pick him up because you kind of don't get that gratification of having them open and look at it if it's shipped exactly yes no if my clients are able to come and pick up their products that's perfect absolutely perfect as it means I get to see them again and deliver them you know a beautiful bag with their products in it but if they do leave a certain distance away from may or they can't come to me I'll have a korea but it all comes down to the box and the packaging like I don't tend to use a lot of bubble wrap I'll use you know like store and stuff like that that's got great texture in it because when you have to package something you wanted to be a kid for suppose you wanted to be delivered properly when you put it in the mail you've gotta be very careful because they don't tend to take much notice of fragile stickers so I tend to use like a career if I can and before I came away I couldn't quite get some of my products to my clients in time so the the actual company that I used bringing prince they then ship the product directly to the client which was wonderful because I just ran out of time before I had to fly out so having that relationship again with supplies important but ideally I would love to hand deliver their products to them but if I can't if they've traveled all differently organized a career so you're taking that extra service and you know what else is really nice if you add something that smells not a strong smell like some herbs or something like that I don't know but something in there that when you smell something could create a certain emotion in you as well be another question I can see small packaging here do you find easy finding packaging for larger items like converse good question actually because my canvases do come from my supplier bubble wrapped and in a box and I love I'm very hesitant when I just said you know like I get my supply to ship them directly but they know my standards they know that I've contacted them in the past of something has been damaged and shipping to me they know that I'm going toe contact them and say right this needs to be replaced so quality control is really really huge but yes campuses are hard to package very very hard it's just purely by the size of it and not a lot of packaging companies actually offer something for that but year the box that it comes in is just a white box and you know you can put brown wrapping paper around it and a beautiful bow depending on the size of it that's not an issue because if you buy a pair of shoes for someone and you you give them is a gift he would put wrapping paper around them so I suppose it's the same thing is wrapping a shoebox the rapper canvas box I would do that differently