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Kelly's Home Studio

I've had so many people wanting to know about my studio space and where I work and I think you know that kind of reflects on themselves you know they think they've gotta have these wonderful big studios to be able to create beautiful portrait but you don't you know four years ago well prior to four years ago I was travelling to client homes and I was unloading and reloading my car and driving for hours on end sometimes and and having to rush recessions to be able to make it back home in time to pick up my kids from school so I needed to provide my clients with a suitable space where I could photograph in and then save me all that time in travel and I also noticed that when I was going to client homes that my clients were spending all their morning cleaning the house because they had somebody coming I mean and I know I do that when I have a visitor coming so I wanted to take that pressure off my parents and not have them worry about simple things like that so that the day of decision al...

l they had to do was get up in the morning get dressed get organized and get in the car and come to my studio said this is how I started you know I've done the hard yards we'd build a house I used a room that wasn't exactly student suitable for my shoots and I didn't have a lot of stuff so being able to sort of you know create now this beautiful new studio and transform our garage into a space that's I mean it's my dream space eventually I'll probably have another dream but at the moment it's my dream space and I absolutely love it and the light in there is is really really perfect so yeah you could see in there that this is where my clients come you know so like you're welcome to my boot camp and this is how I welcome my clients into my studio and yes I do do a lot of teaching I still have clients and I love my client so having them come to my house and welcoming them into my home and making it really comfortable you know really sets the tone from my studio and for my sessions so yeah this is kind of what it looks like it's taken a little while to plan but you know I had a dream and it had teo had to evolve over time and expand with me but it was when I started to really sort of identify not find or not create my style but identify with it that's when I started to build my studio around it and focus on what it was that I created not what other people were doing and build a studio that was for somebody else it had to be for me and fit my brand and my style so this is it and it all came in under budget which was really awesome so when I first started I talked about having a space that wasn't exactly still suitable but you could see that it's actually not a very large space it is shot with a wide angle so it probably makes it look a little bit bigger but it is six six by four meters so it's not ideal I had large windows though which were perfect and an open doorway so I would have curtains that I would close and to keep that hidden but you know I didn't have much all of those props that aeryn there are things that I used to take decline homes and you know this I haven't seen some of those things for a long time and that's as I've I've developed over the over the last four years you know I've removed some things and put new things in so that was the very beginning and I even have my mom come in and help style on hang things everywhere and she had a great time doing that and then two years later you can see it's started to fill up with more things on my my prop shopping addiction had really kicked in and I remember my husband sitting on those black chairs and saying just sitting in there you know and I said to him while I was tidying up I really need some more shelves and he's like no you've got to stop buying props and you know it made it clear to me that it doesn't matter how many props or how many items you have you know you actually don't need much to take beautiful photos I just used opposing bag and a blanket and a couple of bits of fabric and I created all of those beautiful images that they're going to be loved forever so you know while I've been evolving over the you know the course of my career it's changed I've identified new things you know once when I once thought that I had to do things a certain way because everybody else was doing them you know now I'm doing it the way I want to do it I'm keeping it simple I'm identifying what my clients want and I'm create I've created a beautiful space for that but I don't have the heart to get rid of all my props I still use them so yeah now we're gonna watch a little video I'm gonna welcome you into my studio which is very exciting thank you to my very good friend garrett for filming this for me he has been an incredible support from a sir here you go so one of the main reasons I decided to set my studio up at home was so that I could be prison and available to my family all times which is really important especially because my husband previously was working away from home and I have three small kids so my business has to revolve around my family and not the other way around and when you think about it as a photographer we're only spending around thirty percent of our time actually behind the camera the rest of our time is spent either in front of a computer or doing other other things that are associated with running a photography business and the other reason why I didn't want to hire a commercial spaces because finding the right location on dh the right space is really quite difficult and there's so many other factors involved with parking and location other other businesses around the studio and how much is it actually going to cost me per month to hire that space and whether or not I would be comfortable sharing that space if I couldn't afford it with another photographer and you know as a mom my role is you know it's so much more important than my business because you know if something was to happen to any of my family members I need to be able to be there so they could possibly be a month where I can't physically work as much as I would potentially like two which means the stress of having to pay off a lease or wrench would be something that I'm not quite prepared to put myself in that position for just yet so creating this space it harm has been a labor of love it's been a lot of hard work and my husband has had to do a lot of the the building in the construction of it but it's so worth it and now I have a space that I could bring all my clients into and they feel at home knowing the perfect space that I wanted to create I had to figure out whether or not it would be better suited for a commercial space or if I could actually set up a home studio and deciding on not to go with a commercial space there were so many factors there was you know whether or not I could find the perfect location the perfect space and whether or not I had enough parking and if I could actually potentially afford the wrench and sign an agreement to pay that rent monthly for a period of time so I decided teo utilize my my house and create the perfect space and this is my new studio my previous my previous studio which was in another area of the house was much smaller it was around thirteen square meters and this spaces are roughly about thirty five so it's much larger but you know my thirteen square made a studio it actually serviced me quite well for around two years and I didn't have any complaints from anyone I think it was just my prop collection that kind of outgrew the area so deciding to work from home there was a lot of things I needed to do first and one of them was was whether or not I was allowed to did I have to have a permit or approval from anyone so I contacted a local council who then suggested that I contact a local town planner and what they did was decide whether or not that depending on the suburb and what part of the summer that I lived in if I could actually work from home without a permit so I was lucky enough to find out that we live in a semi rural area and which means I can actually use fifty square meters off my home to run a business from so in combination with my studio space I actually have my office just outside the door and roughly it equates to around fifty square meters so that's perfect I can also have upto one car at any time here from clients which is really important to know because at any point I could be shut down if I didn't have the right permit or if I had you know more cars if I was taking up street space and if they upset my neighbours which is a lot to consider when you do live in a residential area I was visualized my space to be really bright so I wanted white walls and white ceilings and floors and my beautiful watch here curtains to make the room really light airy we decided to go with a paint color called arctic watch which was perfect and the flooring was it's actually click laminate flooring which was so easy to put together and it's got a very distressed timber look to it which is great as I can use it as a backdrop as well as having my flooring when it came tio to filling the space with furniture and bits and pieces I wanted it to have a very clean and tidy look and I didn't want to have you know any bold bright colors so we went with very natural neutral times when we came to creating the shelving what I did was I measured some of my larger props and I always wanted my my blankets hanging in the middle so we basically designed the system around those so that it would be beautiful and colorful in the middle and then I could place all my props around those from my client is to be able to see clearly to choose for their sessions with the larger props I've placed them down the bottom and then we've got cem cem extra shelves to put in there but you know we've made that really quite rustic as well it's not perfect in any way shape or form but I love that rough texture to it it looks really good and it's suits all my props I've been really lucky to be able to convert our double garage into my new studio space which is perfect because of the size and I had completely outgrowing my last year so being able to remove the garage door and replace that with large sliding glass doors meant that I could have beautiful light in here pretty much most of the day the only time I have a problem with it is first thing in the morning and up tour around nine thirty ten a m with direct life but what I've done is filtered mike my lite with beautiful white sheer curtains that I just got from a local material supplier and that diffuses the light perfectly for my baby photography I have my beanbag probably around three meters from the windows which is a great space to have that soft light because the further I am away from the light the softer it becomes something else I had to be really mindful of was the temperature in here being the garage it means it's not as well insulated as the rest of my harm so we've had a river cycle air conditioner installed which helps me keep the temperature of the room nice and consistent throughout the the duration of the session I'd like to have it around twenty eight degrees celsius which means that it's not too uncomfortable for my clients and it's nice and warm for the baby this is my shooting area I've got a space designated purely for my props and then I have my beanbag so my bean bags on a forty five degree angle towards my windows and as mentioned before the north east facing and I've got big sheer curtains that help defuse that that light that I get a ll day so it makes it lovely and soft I've got a backdrop hanging from my family and parents shots and if they're not interested in using the backdrop I can use my white wall or I can use my backdrop stand for either a black backdrop or any other color that they might be interested in using when my clients do arrive I want them to have an incredible first impression on them tow walk in and see my feature wall and go wow and get really excited so I could invite them in and we sit down and I start to talk to them a little bit about the baby and I find out whether or not it the baby has been fed recently or when it's due for its next feed I also asked whether or not the baby is bristol bottle because that actually will have an important factor on how the session will run because if it's a breast fed baby then obviously it's going to require being fed a little bit more often more frequently as breast milk is digested a lot faster than formula and that way I know how much I can plan to get once that baby goes to sleep and how long it will stay asleep for once we sit down we duel of that I asked him to undress their baby first if they understood baby it looks like it's it's wanting to be fed then I recommend giving it just a little top up before we start on that way the baby should stay stay asleep longer than they say if it needs to be fed in another hour or so the first thing I always do is leave the room when they start to breastfeed and I find that by doing this it allows my parents to really relax and take in the environment because I don't know about you but when I walk into a new place that I've never been to always feel a little bit nervous a little bit anxious and we have to remember that our clients are extremely excited about coming to have their babies photos taken so being able to walk out of the room and leave them for just five minutes it just allows them to relax and not feel pressured tio into having conversation with may and focusing on me as opposed to focusing all their attention on that baby because really I want that baby to be his welfare as possible and nice and relaxed and if I'm in here it's not gonna happen what I do is I usually say I'm just going to go on grab my camera wash my hands and can I get you a glass of water and nine times out of ten they say yes plays so that just gives me an excuse to leave the room without actually having to say I'm gonna lave letyou fading pace so it's done very tactfully once I come back in and they nice and comfortable you can see the difference in them it's incredible we start to talk then about how the session is going to unfold if there is anything that they would like specifically captured that day or what colors and what props and things like that that they'd like to use I like to get a good idea of what they want because if I was to use a color or a proper or anything that I have in my studio that they don't like then they're not going to be happy with that photo and I want them to love every single photo that they get at the end of the session that's really really important for me once the baby is nice and sleepy after its high the fed or not then we'll start position on my client's already know prior to arriving that they're going to receive twenty images in a gallery after the shoot so that means that I'm not going to shoot for forty I'm going to shoot for twenty images so that's why I have a floor during my sessions sometimes the session needs to be changed around a little bit to accommodate every baby is they're all different but I have a system and a plan and basically that helps get my clients out of here as quickly as possible not because I don't want them here but because they tired they're very sleep deprived and it's a very warm room and after you've had a baby you've got lots of hormones racing around your body still trying to calm down so I don't want them to be uncomfortable for longer than necessary sir I'm gonna shoot for twenty and my session is going to be based around that if my client have a total up I'll always photographed the total of first and that's one to two images out of my twenty already which means I'm going to do one less problem if they have got a couple of siblings depending on their age I'm a photograph them separately with the baby or just together if there's no siblings I'll start on my beanbag but if the baby's a little bit unsettled or still away can not dozing off then I might start with my parents shots but majority of the time it's always on my beanbag I go through my floor posing on there and then I'll move on to a couple of props one two two props that fit and then I'll go into my parent's shots and I know that on my bean bag out of my four poses I'm going to get eleven photos and then if I do two props there's another two photos or potentially more and then when I photographed the parents I'll get two different photos off each parent separately with the baby usually looking at the camera and then either kissing the baby all looking down at their baby and then together so there's another seven photos once the couple of together you know I'll get them looking at each other looking at the camera and then looking at their baby so this thie that's how adds up to seven but yeah there's my twenty image is done and my clients you know have enjoyed the session and at the end of the day what I have to remember the most is that my biggest form of marketing is always going to be through my clients so as comfortable as I make them and as happy about the session as possible they're going to tell all their friends about it I want them to have a unique unforgettable experience while stay here now that you've had a chance to see inside my studio and hear all the steps in the planning that's been involved in creating it you know there are a few things that you need to consider if you're going to create your own space whether it be in your home or on a commercial premises and there's a list and the top of the list is going to be your planning and whether or not you're allowed to work from home with a permit or without a permit those are really important the second thing that we haven't quite touched on is your insurances and getting all of your insurance is in place public liability insurance is a must when you have clients coming into your home you don't necessarily I have to worry then if if someone was to fall and hurt themselves or any of your equipment was damaged you have to cover yourself and god forbid anything bad does happen during a session but making sure that you've got a ll the precautions and you know set up in place to begin with we'll just guarantee that you are creating and a professional service for your clients that they're going teo really trust you for all right so you get to see inside my studio it's always so strange watching yourself on camera yeah it still freaks me out it's really weird and you can see I've got new glasses since then but yeah I love being able to share that space with people because it's you know it's taken a lot of planning and my husband worked really hard to build it so that it's such an incredible thing to do and you know what I want people to do in the facebook page in the group sorry is tio you know share photos off their studios show us your space and like another little exercise that I love to see and I like to do myself is just grab your phone just start filming from the curb where clients would get out of the car and film what it is like from a client's perspective tow walk into your studio space and then watch it and keep it really really sure and you can post those and share those in the group you're going teo help other photographers you know because we're all at different levels and sharing that information as well so yeah but I'm sure we've got lots of questions so kelly before we do go to q and a one thing want to let people know where they conjoined that group which is has already over twenty five hundred members and counting that is on facebook you search kelly brown's newborn photography boot camp and kelly over the break we were looking through the the facebook group already and we just have to share an image with everyone people are all ready including what they're learning in to practice even if they're two and a half years old or so thank you for sharing that photo in there just just adorable have their understand baby go and even the camera strap on that fantastic all right so let's let's start by if we have any questions in the studio audience I know you all have been will be part of the pre recording but go for okay I've got a question from the party that we were shooting what size is your are your blanket and what material do you use the actual backdrop blankets so they're just throw blankets they're not I don't look for a specific size or anything like that but I tend to go into homeware stores and just find like blankets that are nice and soft have a nice texture and a natural tone to them I'm not looking for anything with too many patterns or bright colors because that's not mike my style but I'm also trying to keep it a simple as possible so that nothing is distracting around the baby but yeah I got if I was to look at them probably about two meters by one and a half meters I'm not quite sure but I can actually what I'll do is I'll measure it and I'll post it in the group because I know quite a few other people well will want to know those sizes as well that I like to put them with ways across my beanbag not length ways and that way I can pick the top up over the back of my backdrop and then pull the sides nice and tight as well to give it a nice firm look when I'm photographing when should I focus on the top I and when should I focus on the bottom hi okay that's a good question because the focal point often changes all the time and it depends inside our camera there's lots of different focal point and when we select one of those focal points when we're toppling which is what I do I usually select the focal point there's close that it on the air that is closest to me unless of course there is like hand very close to that eye or a dark object something that is more contrast ing than the eye line because the camera could get confused and focus on that as opposed to the eye which is what I want nice and sharp and I am shooting wide open so I really wanted now that focus if if there is you know something along the side of the head there that's going to be nice and crisp and it's going to become slightly distracting when you look into that baby's face so yeah that's when I would possibly focus on the on the top I further away but you're making sure that thie focal length from the top I to the bottom I very very similar if you know the baby's kind of on its side and you're focusing on this eye which is closest to the camera the size going to become very soft so you know bringing yourself around squarer said both eyes are of a similar focal plane you're going to keep both nice and sharp but you are focusing your struggling to that top I tio to make sure you get that focus away from those distracting contrast idiots why do you trouble instead of just used her such a focus and then so when you focus recompose I don't know about you but when I was doing it I found that I would focus and then move and I'm slightly moving in around so it's coming like that not like that it's coming around because my head is turning I'm not focus re composing and then moving so I'm keeping that same focal distance that focal length is actually changing because I'm moving I'm turning not going directly from side to side I really want to now that focus I want to get my composition perfect in camera and I don't want to recompose in case I slightly miss so I'm getting it there I would rather crop you know slightly off the sides teo you know to really now that focus because I am shooting wide open but that's not for everybody and that's fine that's just how I like to shoot and it's taken a long time to sort of identify that and go with that if you like to shoot at four point five five point six to make sure you've you know you've got everything you know nice and crisp and all those details that is perfectly fine do what works best for you and don't be constantly told that oh you should be doing it this way you should be doing it that way if you like to focus recompose and it works for you that's fine but it doesn't quite work for me so I like to toggle get that focal point right and now that focus every time for me which is some something that I'm also in a really big habit of doing as well but yeah so this is a question about the age that you photographed newborns have a lot of people were asking about this what is that what are the standards that you use in terms of what a newborn for the particular poses and everything that you found that work so the younger the baby the better it is to work with him obviously you know in those first five days they still establishing a feeding pattern all of those things it's and it's such a beautiful time for the parents to develop that relationship after that they've got to know their little movements a little better and and you know they're just falling and more in love with their children every day so after that five day period I usually tell my clients six to ten days is the preferred time for me to photograph them they get told that when they first enquire its rules were written in my process and information that sin town and it's um it's then when they when they bring me back or email me back to say yes we've had we've had our baby let's book in the time of the day it's put in mirrors as well so that if I give them a couple of options they don't go all of you know can't really come this week I'm gonna have to come next week and then their babies like two to three weeks of age but that's six to ten days you know they really really sleeping they're still so brand new so so fresh and they're they're really flexible as well you know after that two to three weeks their little bodies are starting to develop their had time outside the womb to stretch and expand and I contend to work with them without too many sort of you know issues as well but also after two weeks of age they can develop things like baby acne and caught colic and things like that as well so yeah it's the younger the better I have found but in saying that you know I have photographed five week old babies that have slept through an entire session and have been absolutely perfect they don't you know get quite as curly they're not used to being so round and held into a ball they like to stretch out a little bit more but you can still get incredibly beautiful photos and then you know I'll have occasions where I have clients booked in and when they get home or you know when they've had their baby they have to have a brace on for any reasons with with hip problems things like that so they can't come in for quite some time for that session so we're sort of looking at around that six to seven weeks to photograph the baby and in that case I'm just keeping everything really simple I'm usually rapping I get more awake photos because at six to seven weeks of age they can make our contact you know they're getting ready to start smiling at you they develop so quickly and you ask any parent with a brand new baby the day they're born and then two weeks later how quickly they change their little faces change not much but enough to notice so you want to photograph them as young as possible you know in that you know after that first week to that second wake and get all those beautiful fresh details that you just you don't ever want to forget you never want to forget those old things so to follow up on that kelly nicky had asked about in the chat rooms about pre knees and premature babies and what's your approach to them yeah so I actually had premature twins some of you that have watched my previous class or know me know that I've got twins and they were born at thirty one weeks which is quite early so they had to spend six just over six weeks in hospital and require lots of special care so by the time they came home you know and these babies were staying awake longer they were sort of a little bit more used to being handled but they did need to be wrapped a lot because in hospital premature babies a wrapped their wrapped and nurses have such a tight schedule in there you know they can have up to fifty babies actually cover this in one of my other segments as well so you know I am going to touch base on this because when you are working with babies it's really important to get advice from the right people you know talking to a neonatal expert talking to somebody who has a pediatrician or works with pediatricians is really important to understand their needs and what what you you know what they're capable off what you shouldn't shouldn't be doing when you're working with premier babies they are often older they're a little bit more sensitive sometimes to a touch and you can feel all the little muscles and I have to say to my my my husband when our babies because they felt so strong michael told steroid injections I had her you know and premie babies when they're born a subject to so many different things they can have so many things you know wrong potential potential things so you have to be very careful with them but they are checked before they leave the hospital they're given the all clear before they sent home unless there are you know continually sort of require health once they do go home but talk to your clients about that you know what sort of care did they have in the hospital you know how long were they in therefore get a really good understanding of what they've been through so you know howto handle them during that session because I used to think that all premier babies with the same monsters they're adjusted age and they come in and I'd try and pose them like a newborn and it just didn't work that way so I had to slow down and I attended two wrap more and based musician around them I have a sip plan I go through my foot my flow posing I do my props or do my parents that's fine it works for most babies but not every baby said premier babies tend to change my session flow a little bit to suit them and making them as comfortable as possible throughout thank you have a question here yeah I noticed that in your bag flow the froggy pose isn't part of that flow and personally it's people love it or people hate it and for me it's not opposed that seems to fit my style is that something that you come across do you do that regularly or if not to find people requesting it or whatever that oh yeah you know so I am actually really glad that you've touched based on this especially on our live day so I can share my thoughts about this because when I was first starting out I thought that that was required in every new politician I thought I had to get that shot because everybody else was doing it you know I'm on social media I was on flicka and I was seeing it come up a ll the time it is not oppose I like I don't think the babies look comfortable they look cute sometimes when you look at them but it's not natural and it's a fad it's like a lots of things that they eventually sort of just go things come through and they change you see lots of different types of props and things like that come through and they change the froggy pose is quite time consuming to do it's where the baby is propped up on its elbows with hands under its ten and the feet port forward now I have spoken teo a neonatal physiotherapist about this pose and you know having the hips wide like that and together is okay right there is nothing wrong with that it's when the hips and the legs and the knees it together and trying to bring them forward that's when you can cause him problems so the particular thiss particular pose is not necessarily dangerous but I did recently see on social media video which was dangerous and I can't emphasize enough the safety and the comfort of a baby at all times I have a friend who was a lawyer in australia and she has court documents she has access to court documents for legal proceedings where babies have been injured in you born photography shoots it's not on why do you have to complicate it I don't understand it keep it simple service what your clients need listen to them and what they want unless they're coming in and they're saying I want this pose you know don't even consider it it's not necessary if you're already doing its part of your workflow and you're doing it safely that's fine but the video I found on facebook and it was actually sent to me in a private message I don't know who the photographer is but they have managed to get the baby into position with the hands pushed so far back under the baby's chin and if you will do this in the audience push your hands into the back of your throat what does that feel like it's not nice this baby was balanced into this position and rested and then they let the baby go to take a photo unattended halfway through the video when they were moving the baby it moved so they had to bring it back to the centre at any point in time you've seen me work with these little ones their arms and legs move they are unpredictable with the way that they move why would you risk that I'm telling you now if you put a baby in a position or an object that can cause potential damage or harm you will lose everything you have your reputation is a photographer you're home you know this is serious business we're working with these delicate little people they're somebody's life is their life do it staple safely keep it simple if you don't want to offer it don't offer it I don't in the beginning I thought I had to so I learned how to do it properly but it's not may so do what you're comfortable with what you are capable off and don't do it because somebody else is doing it and I get really worked up about this stuff because it's not necessary it's really not necessary and you know what for the photographer out there that possibly did film that be really careful filming those things because you know I did notice a lot of people unhappy about it and um yeah you know I just don't know what the worth of doing something like that would be well thank you thank you for bringing that up kelly I think that's something that you all out there we'll see throughout this boot camp is how seriously kelly takes and we take here the safety of the babies as thie absolute priority and I see heads nodding in here because they have seen some of the pre recording and so we will as kelly said I said I feel like a broken record but it's I mean it's so important that that patients that comes along with the safety as well as what we see so changing gears a note from my four year old son who is watching with me this you're wass he says and you don't want it bleary because when you have to start over the baby might put on his cranky pants this is a bad way when we were a shooting on and she says you're so right buddy but now from my question do you ever shoot with an assistant so a lot of people were asking this kelly this morning during the flow for opposing segment yeah no I don't I don't use an assistant unless impossibly photographing triplets but even with twins are still don't use an assistant because um how do you explain this the most important thing for me and my sessions is creating that experience for my clients so I like to get them involved in session it's such an intimate time with them I'm talking to them about details off their private life and what they've been through in the last few weeks or two weeks that you wouldn't really talk about with someone on a first meeting so you're getting to know them on such an intimate level and I like to keep it that personable I don't want to be focused on an assistant I want to be focused on my client's so I get them to come and sit I get them they're helping may I get them involved and at that point in time when I do that they were part of that image so when they see those photos you always say I was helping with that you know dead if you've got a dead that's slightly not interested in being there and I've had them over the years they they think that I'm just a a chick you know how much is this going to cost may so when they come in I want them to be a part of this session because it is the lady that has been pregnant for the last nine months you know his his world has changed in the last nine months because there's a pregnant woman you go through lots of changes your body is going through homeowner changes and changing and women's go emotions go up and down and and then you know you they're witnessing their wifi that go through one of the most extraordinary things in giving birth or something that's you know that can be could be quite you know quite horrific like what my husband had to go through watching may have syrians so you know their world has changed a swell and they come in and all of a sudden it's all about that baby and not them so getting them to relax and getting them involved in the session I always say to the dead's ify khun since a real hesitation and then wanting to be there and disconnect and I don't need help I'll say can I actually just get you over here I might need a bit of a hand and I'll put the hand somewhere where is completely useless but they don't know that but I've got them a part of that session I'm talking to them I'm giving them attention I'm including them I'm involving them in that experience and watching that mood change from the minute they walk into the minute they leave you know I'm listening to them I'm talking to them I'm communicating with them in a way that they're never going to forget that experience because like I said in my video they're gonna go ahead and tell everybody about that and like I was talking to the lady before they about the restaurant they said delicious food but the service is incredible I want them to remember me so that when they have their next baby in the next baby they come back my last six clients are returning clients I'm getting to know them I'm friends with some of my clients and when they continually referring you clients to may I send them presents I send them flowers I send the movie tickets I make them feel valued and there's a lot of satisfaction in that for me it is all about my client's it is all about creating an experience that they're never gonna forget