Lessons

Lesson Info

11:30 am - Post-Shoot Family Debrief

When I was loved here is your experience of it because I think it's really helpful to think about the fact that I'd love to tell you what I think you're thinking and then you tell me if I'm wrong and feel free to say it like a really rough, cruel way but I would believe that you would have said you'd be kind of thinking like you know, everybody wasn't doing we thought we were rushing that which by the way, that is exactly what my sheets are forty five minutes by the end of that shoot we've had enough of we were past all the hurdles and we've had enough of wins in a row that that early anxiety has moved on and now like okay, yeah, it was weird for a while but now we're cool good I made a point of showing you the images we got but that's the perfect example of what I'm showing the back of the camera that was a weird funky cloud cover from my perspective it's a weird funky cloud cover because it was it seemed very right and yet you know, it was very dim and in fact like being able to show...

the images in back of the camera I'm like ok it's a little darker you're gonna be able to see it but we got all the better that it's perfect it's there and you will see it when we're done but it's a little bit of a different situation in terms of if we were in a studio are controlled environment where it's really clear and very clean right? S o my perception is that you probably felt like that was a lot to take on and make sure everybody was in a good mood and I'm supposed to be looking natural and there's a lot to think about I mean, you tell me what your thoughts from the air in that situation just take off any other hat other than your client going out on a shoot, what does that feel like to you it's chaotic when you have two little kids and, you know there's somebody else watching your little kids, he always kind of think, oh, I hope you know they're not behaving or they're not going along with the flow and so you you kind of feel the stress of maybe they're not living up tio the other person that's in the room but your constant reassurance it was it allowed me to kind of go I mean they're kids I mean, this is where my kids are right now and this is what I kind of room I want to remember I want to get those cable smiles, but this really is life and so that reassurance was enough to keep us going through without having that kind of breakdown going forget yeah, good good. Is there something that would have been done by me or any of retirement that situation that would have worsened that for you? Oh yeah if the photographer was frustrated or, you know, stopping around or not not connecting with us that would have made it much harder you would have felt more stress based on the fact that you know, the kids were being kids and then the photographers getting frustrated so right, right? Well, that's good and I think that's really significant to realize I also think when we started out and we're you know we've got him hiding his head and all that stuff I mean though don't ignore those don't just wait wait it out, not shape that that is exactly like we said I mean there's gonna be a time when you know he's not doing that anymore he's gonna show first first eight under the o you know, that's going to be a different thing that's gonna be a phase then he goes out of so you know, that is not of course the only set of images I'm going to show you I'm going to keep working for the other ones, but I'm gonna get that too, and I'm gonna show you that when we talk about which images to show that isn't no way the one I think that's going to go the big one that goes in the family portrait but I do think it's going to be one that's hilarious in the album and a funny compliment in a series that we put together or something what about you? A lot of it's exactly what I expected I he forced personality that's what? I when I saw that what was great is there was moments when he could've broke down and said this is this is was it that's not his that's his bag he that he's he's never just personality wise he's never gonna love doing some plank that were other kid enjoys the spotlight more yeah so so perhaps tell me if I'm wrong perhaps you have this fear that it's going to be pushed a little too far he's gonna break and it's going to be a catastrophe, right and that's not uncommon and that's part of our job as a photographer is to read that and say, how far can I go and then window immediately take the attention off because it's just too much it's not fair it's not fair to fair to push him past his comfort point to such a level that he has no choice but to personal tears yeah and that is, you know so and you can as your as a parent if you take out of a ll the expectations off you take off the expectation we're here for a family photo and you're able to just put yourself in his position and you feel the pressure of that you can get so empathetic and almost makes you want to cry a little bit to feel like you're pushed that much like your little baby you know, andi think that keeping that in mind as a shooter I have a child but mike, my eight year old is really similar if you push him too far, hill burst in tears and he will say in that exact situation I could see him saying everybody's laughing at me yeah, and he would physically show it and say it and cry by saying it and we would have lost him we've lost him it's not like they wouldn't go back, but I would take a long while and a lot of reassurance and he would have taken a hit to his self esteem because that's how he sees it and just little things like if you see that coming on and you're doing things like that, you might be saying, I'm directing you he feels that you're pointing at him yeah and that's even worse, you know? So yeah, I think taking a measure that like playing to a point but also realized using where that break is and as your photographer I need to be aware of now, only him getting pushed but you guys now being completely consumed by the thought like crap she's gonna break him because that makes you stress and you're not gonna be, like, naturally smiling perfection like go, yeah, what other things did you have any other thoughts or things that you noticed being on the other side as a doctor, as the clients that situations that you know, you felt like experiences you had, as relates to later, when we meet, like, did you feel like, oh, gosh, being a million great shots, or did you feel like we're not getting anything there's a little stress of you wonder what shots you got? Because that does feel like chaos, so you kind of wonder what's going to come from that chaos are going to get to the end and go, wow, that was a lot of chaos and not a lot of worth, but so there is that a little bit of that, but then you're already so much fun. You kind of wanna go back for the next time to be with you, to see it's going to found anyway? Let's, go, she didn't get e is gonna be a blast doesn't help when I show you some images that we're getting and explained to you the difference from what you're seeing right here and what we're going to see later does that have it and honestly I don't don't mean does that help you or is it whatever definitely I was worried since we weren't actually taking you know it seemed like we were in a position to be taking portrait kind of pictures but you're taking pictures I was worried I was in the way or just just in the wrong spot at the wrong time it seemed like there could have been oh, she could have got a great picture but my arm was in the way or you know, just being mindful of where the focus was trying to be sam kind of showed us for me like scene the one shot where I knew brian was behind me that we're going to crop it so we got this and that's ok that's in the background right now would be the final shot it's okay, let me show you what I got between you guys that I love you and then this will be so it's relevant and let me know if you don't mind I'd love to ask you specifically because we were talking earlier about sometimes the tripping up point for photographers especially if they feel a little self conscious of somebody not being checked into the process and often it's you know it's the one who said yeah, I'm just gonna go with it you know, that's fine it's not always the husband but it's often the husband and the dad in that in that instance, because I said to you, you know, I jumped in your faces, but what I was mostly trying to see was, where are you and what you told me? I think was spot on you said, I'm just waiting for direction tell me what to do, and that was more an affable nature, so I could read that like he does not want to be here or I could read that just like you told me straight up, I'm simply waiting to see where to go, right? I obviously didn't want to hinder the process, and I'm not familiar with that. I'm not on photo shoots, I'm not used to being around the camera, being the focus of the camera, so I just we want the pictures are great, we're going to be, you know, how can I make this better? Right? And I think it's really important because you were so naturally yourself in that situation and this post, you know, kind of evaluation I think is really significant, I hope would be significant to a lot of people because this what you're like, the vibe completely outside or if I'm sensitive and a little unsure as a photographer, I could read you as saying, I am not into this, are you done right, good that's a level dot are you done? And there's a couple ways that that could be true? You could it could be true, something because you're uncomfortable and you don't want to know what to do next, and you don't want to screw it up either because you screwed up the money to go do it again, right? But all that I am reading is actually coming from a very sweet place. That's what I'm reading, I'm reading it's coming from a sweet intentions base, you know she wants this. You think I'd be cool? Be fun, but this isn't your area. So guide me and let me get through this that's actually a major positive something that could be read as that he's not into this could be intended turn flipped to, like he sweetly wants to know what to do. He's going to go along with it. You know, this probably would have been the number one thing you would have done that day. But he's cool with it. Does that sound right? Yeah. Good. All right. Any other things that you'd want to add before way start. I think we're gonna go into a lunch break on and then I'm gonna be on a hamster wheel, getting your images are gonna grab some selective process them because we weren't able to do the live tether because of the connection issues with the five mark three I'm gonna be pulling some and I want to be able to show on talk about the metadata what I was shooting why I made certain adjustments when I shot and then show process images to you and sit down and kind of sellem kind of salam but any questions or other feedback that you think would be helpful in any way from that experience I kind of think we kind of covered all of it okay good good thank you very much for that. Thank you all right um let's ask a couple questions please don't do that. Okay, so high glee dot com asked do the clients feel like temer yelled too much? I worry about what they will think that of me because I do the same thing to I did I did yeah, I guess honestly answering that I come from a very loud families so I'm used to that that engages me but maybe somebody who's quieter I think you'd have to read who you were playing with and if you see them withdraw then yeah, you're probably yelling too much but you know if it's pulling them out then it's right but for me I mean so loud family so and from my manage point in that exact situation the part where I was like get me some I was looking at his face and I got to see it and he was laughing you know I saw his face laughing I also was aware that if I pushed too hard you could break but I knew we were getting a really sweet reaction and all I had to do all I was going for was to say the one magic apparent bribe of things that you're right now that got him from here toe up that's so if I could get one point of interest that made him till this head and I did but I want to see what it would be okay question from lee is that you mentioned during the shoot that you showed a certain image in a certain size and you said this I can see is a panoramic yeah when you present that image as a panoramic to christine what how do you handle it if if they want to see that manages an eight by ten for grandma uh yeah I mean I presented as I think it would show best and if I think it was show best is as a panoramic I will do that if she is saying I've got this one grandma frame that it's an eight by ten I will work to make it eight by ten I don't feel like I should push my preferences on you because you're the one who's gonna live with them so I want you to get what you want to get them to start out by saying this is what I see is best great okay day a photo says on the way back into the studio you mentioned several times that you got good shots is that to reinforce the sale yes and it's also because it's true if I were out there and I felt like I am getting nothing I can't believe this is live I would say you know that we're pretty well we've got some good ones I mean it's hard to say that could ones that I got on and I would specify I don't want to set expectations to say oh my god is that so many good ones you know what we did? We got a lot of good ones and so there's no point in leaving that chaotic situation because that was crazier than our normal shoot for may simply because of all the variables at play and we didn't have the time I am comfortable having I normally expect to have a lot more time to whether those things and I have to pack it in I felt some pressure to pack it in to get something at the short amount of time we had in that weird situation s o I need to be even that much more reassuring that we did get good things and I will show them to you and you will like that like I don't want them going leaving here and going three more weeks thinking she didn't say anything, what do we get right? Have you ever done anything like a big performance? And then you get down and someone walks up and says, ok, you're all done, how did I do? Like how did I do that? They need to know, so you have to leave them with some sort of summary in terms of how you think things went, so we have a question for our parents from mango millis, what is the one thing that you would change about this session, given the circumstances way had more time? Because I think with time connor would have come out of his shell more and we would have had a little bit of more relax session, maybe not all the cameras wait, yeah, we knew that going in really, we're going to start. We were joking about the great hall way we need him to warm up and we knew that that was going to be a less than ideal way to start that's I mean that's part of that when you've been breathing, I'm out of time to show something that's you're not showing all of it way had to start with and and make and make best make do our best make best now I'm gonna go think best I'm not sure if you address this earlier in your conversation with them but trouble bug had asked what do you do in parents start getting frustrated at the kids and start directing the kids in a way that's not necessarily yeah so in that exact instance we had a talk ahead of time and we bought all in promised each other and then hugged and cried about our commitment to each other that we're gonna let anything happen including the rocks which never happened on dh then I said and so if something does happen that situation I may turn around to you and say remember what we said and then it will be a meeting in my experience it's immediately dissolved because we've already talked about it that let the expectation was that there's no confusion there do we have any questions in the audience? Yeah if you want to a couple audience questions I don't mind coming in and starting to get this stuff all put into selections but we can certainly do a couple audience questions first I just you and you kind of answered it a little bit before when you said when you finish the shoot you have to give them some inclination of like, you know, yes, we got since but do you do and nine of the purposes of the course we did this debrief, but do you do like you know, five minute debrief with your client to say ok or is it just kind of know we got some good shots okay, I'll see a you're ordering session piece out oh yeah you know, if there's that there's basically nearly every shoot I do there's a finishing up period we're done we're packing up we're collecting clothes were walking back to the car where you know kind of gathering everything in the chaos it was in the studio and moving out and that's the perfect time to say ok, what just happened? This is how I saw what happened this is what I know we got this is that this is just the time too you know what? Any sort of endeavor you do it you do a summary afterwards and that's the summary of saying, you know, we got a lot I don't know what it felt like for you but I know we got them because again we only need these seconds on we're getting them were nailing them the second speaks the actual experience I mean, watching that live shoot I imagine it looks like wow everything's crazy and everywhere there's like it seems like this frenzy that's what it feels like when you're in it often not the whole time, which is why building a lot of slow time and breaks and all that stuff we didn't get that today because we had to get a bunch done to be able to show some semblance of a family shoot in a sale but because we didn't have that it's even more important to say I know that in that madness you know, I did grab moments and that's what photography is grabbing moments and we have those. I have a question. You did great, by the way, thank you for what you're saying. Q. That was so awesome. I think you're the perfect example of a dad in that situation. I was just really great. You are a dad? Yeah. It's. Almost like it was just such a familiar situation. And that was helpful. You have so helpful. My question is tomorrow. Do you bring any kind of toys, tio, grab the kid's attention or props? Or do you use anything? They know nothing. I mean, if there's something very special to them that they want in their image, you know, I would tell them to bring it. But for the most part, no, not at all, it's very much about them. Andi, I put it on me to be the squeaky toy thing clearly. Well, I just want to let people know we do have a session coming up about lucy energy from tamara, but I have a couple questions here, tamara, by your energy um mg hewitt says what does she do to prep to be so energetic? First shoot obviously she's in great shape, but does she have any tricks to keep up her creative energy and cheerful stamina and then day of photo set this timer feel as exhausted as I feel just watching I don't feel exhausted I won't take this moment to plug vegan lifestyle anymore, but you really should stop eating so much meat. I will say that from the perspective of mental things yes, we are going to talk about mental tips because the best in the world I can give you doing any photo shoot especially that experience is sink yourself into thinking how my client's feeling my clients want me to take the responsibility they don't want to do the work if I just sat there and said, all right, let me know when you're kids better I mean that what are they paying me for? They could kind of stand in front of any tripod and get that experience if you have ever done a self photo of your family have you ever done that it's crazy we call ourself portrait's familiar? Fariba is the most horrible semblance of a family photograph ever, no matter how you do it because part of the role of the family portrait photographer is to elicit those expressions it's to get that it's to turn the situations around that I think outside of understanding a technical knowledge and being able to bring all these other things into play, that is the primary reason you want to hire a good family photographer because you want that person to take charge for bringing everyone together and it's not easy and you know, they're because everybody's got a different personality and everybody has different interest levels and being there on bears there's so many factors that go into play, but in terms of me, the number one way I would feed a cheerful personality is simply to put myself in the position of everybody else and realize they need this, and I may come across this cheerful but it's just responding tio what I think the needs are as best as I can meet them in that chaotic situation, you know, I can tell you this, I know that no good would come of me sitting there saying, why isn't this working out? Did you not get the memo like that's? Just I'm not really bring anything to the table there, by the way, and I have to say it again. I love how honest that wass I love that way talked earlier it's so hard with kids because they're not sitting there thinking, ok, I'm just going to give you what I think you need exactly in a mature fashion I should be presented there like no I want to shave my head and my mom's lap I want to grab her chest right now that just feels nice comfortable feels good mama I mean that's that's human beings that's who we are it's how we seek comfort and snuggle up and but that's also in many respects what you're battling if what you want to do is show all the faces so we have a question that came up earlier today from creative live underscore rocks did you do you ever have clients that were not how ap it with images from the shoot if so how do you deal with that do you re shoot whatever we shot no no I should say that I didn't one reshoot about nine plus years ago right when I was starting out on dh the reason why is we had three children and the youngest was a nine month old boy were and I remember this vividly it stands out we're shooting on a bridge I think they heard about it my first book and he pitched forward I remember diving and barely catching him but his head was slammed into the bridge and it would have been really freaky and I learned my lesson right there like don't expect that mom's their dad is always going to be hovering when we were outside and blake was going up on the ladder I will stop and say wait we are safeguards in place every time because no photograph is worth the health of a child like ever and so in that situation that I had had I was shaken the child was ok I was shaken the mom was little shaken and I said we just he was screaming and I was like why would just take a break I mean hadn't been hurt or anything I said let's just regroup and we'll do another shoot later you know I hadn't gotten into the shoot yet but I wanted to stop and I learned a lot from that s that's the only way should have ever had everyone since then if that situation were to occur or this was starting out this way I don't care because I've got the time we need we already have had the conversation and the expectation that this might take some time you know I might send you across the street teo you know grab a drink and have a nice lunch in the compact you know so your energies up and you're with us and you're dealing whatever the case may be we'll take the time we need to get the shoot done on the flip side of that denise hastings had asked camera says she's sorry it's moving tamara says she's used to having more time if she preps the client for a shoot that could last two hours does she ever get what she needs in thirty minutes to forty five minutes and if so, how does she handle the client expectation of two hours? Yes, so that's a great question, because there's definitely sheets that start out like, wow, gold we went there didn't see that coming. Yeah, because a lot of times kids will come in, prepped and ready to go and then they slowly start melting and you're kind of diving through things but my expectation in terms of how I start things out, I start things out with what do I know we want to get I know we want to get mom and baby and dad and baby and mom and dad et cetera, et cetera let's work through the list and get all that stuff done. I'll grab shots as we go if I see them, but the artist part I didn't get to today, we couldn't do that because of time. The part that actually is the most fun is where you just sit in a field in play are you run down the street just see let's see what they do or let's, just try this. What if I just like this? What if you do that that's the part that becomes more fun. So even though I got everything I needed in the first thirty four five minutes, the better images come after and that will take hours