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Reception Coverage Challenges

so the portion that unfortunately missed during the ceremony was just a little light situation and I just wanted to be able to show you how we employed are off camera lighting system but you're actually going to see this off camera lighting system during reception training which is great because reception training is going to start right now and I just I just wantto mainly show you how effective our off camera lights are you saw these lights yesterday our main light is the is the data light it's it's ah one hundred fifty one light we're also going to use this for the reception mainly at receptions because most ceremonies you can't really especially in churches you can't really employed due to restrictions you can't really employ these off camera lights and things like that so it's mainly at the reception is that I want to show you how we use these lights one of the things that you have at weddings like what discussed all along is what challenges and what are the challenges mainly light...

ing it's always lighting because we're looking for lighting but they're not really giving us like so we have to like I tell you before we have to find the light but now we're dealing with a reception and generally receptions or what their low lit they're low lit affairs you're you're generally not gonna walk into reception and it's going to be big bright lights everywhere that's just not the case it's very low lit it's candle lit they want it very keep the the ambiance very low lit which is great visually but for us when it comes to speeches and dancing and other things we need we need to feed these cameras lights so what do we do when you think about lighting positions of lighting what's the most important thing that we're concerned with at a wedding reception anybody know diana toast speech is exactly why because it's our dialogue it's our storytellers right they're going to narrate our film vows ring exchange readings the sermons by the fish on the speeches these are these are our storytellers we need to preserve this audio first and foremost but then we need to be able to actually see them right and during the during the reception you don't want one of your storytellers standing in the dark because you do have to kind of cut back to this story teller during the film so the viewer knows where this voice is coming from in your film this narrator has to be revealed at some point so we have very poor lighting sometimes we have no lighting right sometimes you have a dance for and there's absolutely no lighting how do we deal with this have to employ some lighting and again our main light is going to be this did alight the one hundred fifty one day light they saw earlier and sunset how it's sunset lighting it's pretty good right it's magic hour but what's the problem with sunset the sunsets very quick show they're running late do brides run late are they generally on time these relate fifteen minutes could mean the difference between a sunset shot and a nighttime shot so and generally these brides they're going to tend to run late I always recommend to my bright if they're gonna have a so called sunset wedding get married about an hour before sunset begins the lighting is still going to be beautiful because they're going to be setting but you give yourself some buffer room the other advantage to maybe having the ceremony on hour before sunset it's now you have beautiful lighting all throughout the ceremony and then after the ceremony you actually have that magic hour that nice beautiful sunset where you could go out and get some candid shots so that there's a lot of advantages to planning it that way ahh sunset wedding it's a very sexy thing you know I'm having a sunset wedding you know it's very you know sexy term that they use now it's not a sunset wedding it's a nighttime wedding okay and if you have if you have buildings that are blocking out the sun or in some in some states you have mountains that are going to block out that sun setting it's actually gonna get darker sooner so you basically left with no light I had a wedding and they said was going to sunset wedding and I was looking at a rehearsal and I said oh my god this is not gonna be a sunset wedding it's gonna be a night time what the only lights when the sun actually set and became dark the only lights that were actually running or my delights period they had candles along the perimeter of the ceremony area they had absolutely no lighting on the ultra zero it was pitch black in fact when the ceremony ended I turned off my lights and people freaked out they're like oh my god were the lights go because it was so dark and they still need to do a family picture so the photographers actually asks can you actually lied those lights on because the only light that we have out here so just imagine if you weren't prepared if you didn't invest in the essentials you know lighting audio camera gear and things like that you just saw during the ceremony we were in the best lighting situation for the ceremony but I was still shooting at four hundred eyes so five hundred s so so what does that tell you these cameras function very well in low light situations so that's something that you have to take into account when you're investing in your gear is going to make it look better he's going to make it sound better I want to show you a clip here this was kind of funny because some of these weddings you'll have a host or you'll have a master of ceremonies correct and what we're one of the typical things that these master of ceremonies love to dio when they speak to the guests in the room they do what I'm doing right now they want they want to walk the room they want it's part of their routine to kind of work the room the problem is that our light source it's only hitting one spot we don't have it on you know a remote or anything like that where we can actually have somebody following them with our lights so once we've kind of set the main light we kind of need our character if you will to stay in this particular zone so I had this wedding they had a master of ceremony and I went out to me I always give him instructions even the people given speeches you want instruct what u need say listen I need you to stay in the zone you have st stuck to one spot but at least try to stay in the zone if you do stay in one spot it's even better a lot of times if you can request either a podium or ah microphone stand that almost ensures that they're going to be in one spot and then you could really set your lighting and your cameras and your not stressing that they're going to go off camera and out of your lighting zone so this guy was there and this one was funny because this is a tv guy right that was the master of ceremonies so he's used to being on tv and kind of um work in the camera and things like this so I went up to him and I said I said sir lis and you know I really need you to stay in your zone when you're speaking because I got the lighting set I'm going through all this so he tells me he was you know my style is I want to work the room you know I want to go table to table and I won't want to float freely and I says look you can float freely you can work the room you can go all about your style the only thing that's gonna happen is all that stuff that you do is not gonna end up in the film so as soon as you go outside the zone you're not in the film anymore as soon as you stay in the range whatever you do in the zone well actually make the film because we're not this is not like an amg crew you know like a reality tv crew that's going to follow you around the room it's just not like that you know we're producing an actual like compelling sze very cinematic film and we really need you to kind of like stay in this zone so we're not chasing you around the room and drawing all kind of attention to ourselves so what happened was I instructed this guy so well that he basically became part of my team now everybody that came up to give a speech he was basically instructing them on all the things that I had instructed him which is great so let's take a look at it so you'll see okay so it's not for me really gracious it's for at least add so least at us here he's not going to give a speech now but I've been told come here this is the sweet spot for lighting so in the video in the video for your son and your new daughter you must stand right here and let me show you something this is about tv right so you'll feel it right do you feel it right here you're out of your light but if you move back here do you feel that do you feel that uh boom you feel that how can you work in this kind of environment you go so this is your life so when you come up when you give your speech on what you just stand right here okay we always we always least ad yeah go so as you can see he became my messenger to the rest of the party and that's what you want but who is my sound tech jessica actually jessica does I'm realizing this now jessica actually does most of the work uh I got a few messages during the break there why is ingesting of it I created by why are you there one guy wrote about one of you when you get back you're gonna change the name of the company to jessica roman films that was on the message that I got so I'm kind of realizing exactly how much she does but she is my sound tech she's actually going to instruct the people giving that speech in this particular case I wanted to kind of negotiate with this guy because she was having a little bit of difficult difficult because he did want to work the room a little bit so I got in there and I just want to emphasize that if they went off that zone they just weren't going to be in the film and that actually wasn't even our light that was actually ah lighting system that they had there and they were actually able to direct it too of the speech or were actually able to get with with the lighting engineer and ask him if he could just direct that light over so we didn't have to use our off camera light which was a great situation so if you're at a if you're at an event and they have elaborate lighting generally they're gonna have a lighting engineer that you can talk to and you say be careful because a lot times will direct the spotlights and it's just going to blow out your subjects so you have to tell them say listen you know keep the intensity down to a reasonable level so it's not blowing up the subject because what happens is if you have to expose for your subject and he's so blown out everybody behind him is just gonna be so under exposed that you're probably not gonna even be able to see them yes ray if you don't have a mic stand or a podium have you ever given a mark on the floor just with like gaffer's tape I don't I don't put the tape down but generally I give some type of visual reference of where to stand I had I had a wedding recently and I just sent a message to the planner that was involved and I and I told her I said listen if you want the speeches to look really good it would be awesome if we had either a mic stand or a podium so they would just stay in one spot and I explained all the lighting in the positioning of the zones and all this and I never thought in a million years I would get this beautiful like see through crystal podium for all the people to stand at it was waiting for us at the wedding reception you know so sometimes you just have to ask you know the worst they can say is no but in this particular case I told the planner what was going to look the best and they just they provided it so it was a luxury you know tohave that there but if I didn't ask for it who knows what would have happened at that wedding but now everybody they came up to speak they were pretty much just kind of like planted behind this now we even set up like a hair light we had the key like you know you have so much you have so many advantages to having that person in one spot but as soon as you have to worry about them kind of going outside the zone now they're going outside the lighting that you've kind of preachy we established that something so we talked about the speeches we've given it instructions and now you're going tohave the people coming up to give the speech is now what are the problems with the speeches even though you have your main key light already set up and ready for the person actually giving the speech your couple is generally always sitting in the dark right because we haven't thought about lighting for the couple this is when I employ and I'll get joe to bring me maybe the led light that's on the small lights and and like I said I have um my life stands about a fraction of the size it's very small I use this torture led light this is very handy because I can just I can move this anywhere it's the power self contained so I don't have to plug it in anywhere and I can just have it off to one side whenever I need it I can just employed so if the couple was sitting in the dark I could just have this off to the side and I could adjust intensity according tely eso how much light I needed to properly expose of the couple you don't need a lot of light because thes counters again as you saw during the ceremony as you saw during the ceremony these lights these cameras don't require a lot of like that they functioned very very well in low light situations so this light is very handy one of things that I always do as soon as they get to the wedding reception as jessica setting up for audio I set one of these up by the deejay speaker of the band speakers along with a very small tripod and a dslr on there with probably like a twenty four to seventy lens and I just leave it there the whole night because what happens is and you guys have seen this maybe a coordinator tells you hey guys you know your your dinner's in the back and then you're in the back and then all of a sudden two minutes later they're telling oh my god the bride's uncle is going to send up and give a like a surprise speech and nobody's prepared now you can come out because I could just tell him to say listen give me thirty seconds and in thirty seconds I could come out I can grab this light put light where I needed wherever they're going to give the speech from and I also have this camera that's very flexible because it has a twenty four to seventy lens on there and now I can kind of just position that record until my main camera gets established on that primary shot but this is a very safe shot and it's very solid you know its owner no man camera you just frame it up focus and now I have a light to expose the shot no matter where they are in the room hopefully they're going to go to my zone where they were supposed to be giving speeches but sometimes they just stand up at their table sometimes hopefully going to have better control than that but sometimes it's just so spontaneous that somebody wants to stand up and give us a price speech or maybe somebody stands up and they want to start singing you know maybe you guys have had that we've had that you know where the bright sister or something like that they think their singer so they want to sing at the wedding and now you you must be prepared sometimes at an indian wedding there's tons of performances and things like that so maybe they just cut you on a break and now they tell you you know what we're going to start a performance the great thing about this safety camera is that it's got a twenty four to seventy on there are nice and wide lens which in most cases you can cover the entire dance for and then like I said you already have a light on it and anything on the dancefloor should already be exposed because as we're going to talk about for the hands on portion of the reception we're going to have a light already covering the dance force so that that part of it should already be set this scenario here is really for surprise speeches and that safety camera that we use third camera we use in case there's like a surprise performance maybe the bride and groom they're going to do this choreographed dance now anything that safety cameras going to be able to cover even if it's got to go in a little bit tighter you can punch it into seventy on dh kind of frame up your shot a little bit tighter so let's talk about let's talk about the couple this is generally your couple during the speeches and the person actually given the speech are key light is going to be on our speaker and then I'm gonna have one of these led lights on the couple's reaction because generally they are sitting in the dark in fact if you look at if you look at the people behind them you can see there a little bit underexposed and that's kind of like what you're couple would've been looking like on film so this is this is this is your main speaker this is a light that we're using for the main speaker and I'ma show you how we set this up in the live portion of reception training and speeches and toast reactions which is here and you can see the light and the lighting's not flat we don't have the lights set up directly in front of them we have it off coming in at an angle and and that sort of creates this dramatic lighting that you're seeing here and again this is a light that we're using for the reaction shots of the couple we don't we don't generally like the guests if we're getting cut away shots or bureau shots of the guests we're just kind of or I will since I'm kind of working my way around the room I'll just manipulate dies so on allowed aya's so if I need to and here you can see what the lighting and the good thing about having the couple lit like this I could shoot from anywhere in the room and the couple is gonna look great because you're already pre lit I could go anywhere in this room and get shots like this and they're gonna look great get nice reactions and this is what you're looking for because you have to complete the story we're going to get into this afterwards but I want you to make a mental note of where the couple is sitting right now because the couple is actually sitting in front of their sweetheart table right instead of behind it because what happened was if they sat at the sweetheart table where they were supposed to sit they had centerpieces and candles and just hi centerpieces where you really couldn't see their face you just didn't have a clear of vantage point of their faces so what we did was and I talked to them always talk to the client just to let them know what you're doing and tell him I'm going to my so listen where you're sitting do you see that high centerpiece just behind them this is what was in front of their faces so they they couldn't even see the speeches so I'll go to him and I tell him I said listen just for the speeches I'm gonna have you guys moved to the front of table so you have like a clear view of the person giving speeches and then once the speech is over we'll move your chairs back now very important don't make the bride and groom carry their own chairs you know you set the stage and don't allow for them to do any amount of work just you're you're only function is to explain what's going on so they're not confused and wondering what the heck you're doing moving their chairs and things like that so in this case you can see what happened I move their chairs and their sweetheart table is right behind them and you see that big centerpiece behind them that's what would have been obstructing your view of the couple forgetting reaction shots so this is a static camera remember if you're if you have a static if you have a static angle of something if you have a static angle and again our tribe the tripod that we use for that was much smaller than this one if you have a static camera you don't really need anybody behind that camera because composition is not changing the folk the focus is not changing and really you're wasting manpower by having somebody behind this camera that could be mobile getting you some nice bureau shots of people in and around the reception there's a lot of ah there's a lot of emotions there's a lot of laughter and you have to pay attention because sometimes you'll be there looking for cutaway shots you can listen for good cutaway shots a lot of times you'll hear the rowdy table what where everybody's getting rowdy and loud and laughing in and applause ing and things like that so you should be directing as a b roll person you should be directing your camera that way and like I said you can bounce around and you can get content right three to five seconds three to five seconds you're looking to create content hears here's some speeches here and you'll see how we kind of bounced around the room looking for a good cut away shots good reactions laughter you know things that you can cut with a speech is good reactions here you can even shoot this guy from afar even though you're not the main the main angle the bright this is a static camera so you can always come back to the static camera or my b roll camera I'm floating around the room looking for emotions like this you're bouncing around don't waste time don't get stuck behind a camera list you're the primary shooter which in this case again is jessica she's she's got the primary shot of the person giving speeches but believe it or not I'm actually working here I'm actually working the room looking for emotions and laughter and content three to five seconds three to five seconds three or five seconds looking for stuff that I can add to the film so she's got the primary shot covered she's got me covered and now I'm I'm working the room I'm working guys believe me I worked teo remember you're only as good as who your second shooter or however your whoever your teammate is in this case okay you have to be working you have I couldn't be doing all this stuff if I didn't have a solid second shooter that was cover me for the speeches do we have any questions as faras reception coverage or lighting or anything there was one of the reaction shots of the couple there I saw a light in the background and it looked like it might have been your deed a light um and that may have been throwing past the couple onto the the person who was giving the speech where where would you choose to place your key light was that yours and and where do you choose to place your key light on the person giving the speech yeah so two things first you're gonna have tio you're gonna have to try to plan it out and figure out where you could put a light because they're gonna have a lot of the core in the room you have a lot of tables they're gonna have you know the tables that they use for that the wait staff uses for drinks and things like that so they're gonna have bartenders you know they have the bar set up and things like that so a lot of times there there might be the perfect spot for a light but you can't put it there because there's something else there and the other thing we're looking for with the deedle light is what twenty power we need power so we need an outlet so that might be the perfect side we could put it there and there's no power there so you want to make sure that you bring extension cables in case you can use the extension cables in a perfect world what I'd love to have the delight in the back of the room kind of throwing light forward towards the dance for because it's got so much so we're going to take a look at it for the live portion of the reception the little lights got a lot of throw now if there's a band and the band's got its own lights I will position the diddle light right next to the band's lights but my lights actually directed towards the dance for but it blends in very nicely with the bands light you know I never want to do anything that's going to draw attention to the videographers ahs muchas aiken blend in my equipment with the environment the better that's not how it kind of worked out yeah so we had a question from m simmons who asked if you would ever consider using a microphone stand for the toasts to insure the toasters don't walk all around the room yeah and then have a light set up as well yeah so we talked about that is possibly having either a podium or mike stand for for the microphone we don't we don't bring our own mike's tent but a lot of times there's a band there generally they have a mic stand that you could pull down from the stage and uses a mic stand way have that situation will definitely use the mike stand but we also asked for you know like a podium and things like that and generally you don't have a mic standing you don't have a podium basically just give instructions to who's ever given this speech just to kind of stay in a particular zone so you would never consider just arranging that so you have a standing you say if you're going to make the toast always stand here you would never just like out of mike stone just have it be part of your kit and just have it be part of your work flow all the time I have a mic stand I've bought a mike sent for that purpose but we have so much your know that it's like to bring one more thing and then have them already have a mic stand at the reception is kind of defeats the purpose a little bit of just lugging it around with us so but yeah we do have in my extent at home that I bought for that purpose but most of events that were working they have mike stands there so I always love to have them either using mike's son like I said we're just request ah podium that they can use okay okay quick one from irish eyes do you have any additional onboard camera lighting when you're working the room like do you have something that's like just connected you're kind of go to in case you find a dark corner no okay no I've never for my b roll camera where I'm kind of floating around the room looking for cutaway shots I never used an on camera light because what happens as soon as you employ an on camera light and you turn it on wherever you're trying to get reactions from they just look at the light and they look at the cameras hood it's not the reaction that I'm looking for I just want them to be focused on the person giving the speech and I want that that natural reaction from my bureau shots I never I never employ an on camera light for that so if a question from s o vision studios who wants to know how do you keep yourself from changing shots too frequently I feel like I'm always chasing a shot just to lose the one that I left is this something that comes without a confidence and experience I feel like my footage has a d d yeah so a lot of times were anticipating shots you know some of these shots where the people were laughing and clapping and being all animated I was kind of just waiting you know but once you have the shot that's when you count off three to five seconds you know I've got enough of this or if they're really being animated you could stay even longer things like that if there's if there's nothing else going on in the room go with what you've got because sometimes you look around the room and the people just like you there's bordeaux they want to get back to first course and eat their not so interested in this speech is going on things like that so just keep scanning keep scanning look for something and hopefully there's somebody in the room that's you know kind of interested in the in the words that are being spoken you know the speeches but sometimes I've been to weddings where it was so loud with people in the reception room not even paying attention to the speeches and they're just kind of like doing their own chitter chatter so it gets a little bit challenging then but you'll always be able to find at least a couple good cutaways during speeches hopefully ray a question from fashion tv who one of our favorites around here so thank you so much do you always shoot into flair for creative results during the receptions and the speeches if you've done one or do create one with your lights on the back of that back laying that flare yeah both sometimes it's already there because they've already got ah lighting design in place but sometimes our own lights give us that effect of the flair the hair lights you know the nice rim lights and things like that sure way love using that yeah it's just beautiful with was beautiful lighting yeah it's gorgeous yeah you know the bad thing is that we can't plan for that stuff we can only get to the reception see what we have to work with and kind of hope that we'll be able to position lights in a way but we'll get some of these creative effects that were looking for but sometimes it works out you know we just honestly we just get lucky sometimes so tyler harrington media asked do you record the dances and full are you shooting for sequence the dances for like the bride and groom are you first of the entire dance yes you do yeah and the writing father we're going to get into a lot of what we do tomorrow during business but remember this if your photographer you know you photograph everything and why whiffed harbors and heroic right whywould you photograph absolutely everything at an event I mean the main reasons to make sure you capture the entire story of the day exactly if if you started at the beginning of the father daughter dance and you might think you've got a couple of good shots you never know once that song concludes if one of them's gonna become a for overwhelmed with emotion or what could happen with it so you want to be sure on those key moments to give full coverage and different angles everything exactly but what else what else is it what you're doing when you're filming you're taking photographs it's product this is all product do you sell prince later on if they order copies oh definitely so what happens if you wouldn't have taken those photographs those those added random photographs that's all a cart money that's going down the drain you losing money you're losing money because what happens we're delivering a twenty minute film but then what happens if they want to see the entire first ants but you didn't record the entire first and you just took random shots for a twenty minute film what's left to order they can order anything so at this point you're losing money because I said can you just sell us like an edited version of the full speeches first answer's ceremony and all this I'm like well I didn't really record the entire thing because I only needed to make up twenty minutes of film so now what happened you just lost you just lost some money same thing applies as it applies to photography it applies to video it for you know this this stuff that you're not recording is actual product that they may want sometimes they don't want it but if they do want it you want to be able teo offer it as part of your ala carte or your extras okay ray we're gonna take some ceremony questions cool and I'm going to start with one from rk torrez you mentioned that you do you do shoot jewish and indian weddings do you research all types of religious weddings um before you go greek weddings I mean I know they're all different and potentially you dude you have a resource for how you did your your your training for that no here's the thing we've done so many different types of ceremonies we've done greek ceremony persian ceremonies indian ceremonies pakistani ceremonies hindu ceremonies jewish pheromones catholic ceremonies christian ceremonies not the nomination ceremony here's the thing with all these ceremonies the obvious is always it's almost obvious what's the most important aspects of ceremony and in our case we record everything anyways and and I tell you the online community is so great because we've had so many weddings where and probably something you guys have seen this recently where I've gone online and I says can anybody help us translate you know like a greek ceremony you know person ceremony you know whatever the language of portuguese ceremony and I tell you I get so many messages we can help you out we can help you translate this I've had korean weddings where I needed to translate some stuff and during the translation I think I've even had uh alex that's gonna translate some stuff that I had from from the ukraine so it's always great to kind of have that relationship with you know our fellow filmmakers online because they've got me out of gem quite a few times but even him doing translations with alex and diana about the ukraine wedding they were able to tell me hey this is really important you know for this wedding and this is really important if you didn't really know visually what was important he at least had some some some colleagues that you can rely on to kind of help you through some of these weddings because for the most part most of the weddings that we do they're non denominational in there there there christian they're they're catholic their jewish and I'm very familiar with those types of ceremonies but once in a while I end up in a different country that that may have like a different type of religion where different things are more important than the next so help me better understand those situations I'm just relying on really some colleagues that are maybe from that region or from a more familiar with that that culture and that religion than I am right I saw the the captions that you had on your video in the brazil wedding yeah you know I thought that was really cool and I don't translate that that was somebody from brazil that helped me translate all that over so like I said it's it's that it's definitely a great time to come into this industry because there's so much interaction online now and on my groups and forums on dh I tell you every every country and state that I've ever been to I've always relied on having somebody from that country kind of help us out on the shoot and it's always great to go online and just kind of put the feelers out to see who's out there planet planet is getting smaller yeah ok well it's kind of switching gears into gear no pun intended quite a few people had asked about this earlier and this is p five eighty seven plus a couple people wanted to know the focal length that use your glide cam set up and photo graphics miami wanted to know if you could demonstrate how to use the glide cam like what lens and how do you maintain focus is that something that you want to cover I can go over it briefly great yeah um you definitely want to use something a little bit wider for the most part on a glide camp the most important thing for the glide camera steady camera whatever rick they're using is what the balance if you don't have it if you haven't achieved proper balance you're never going to achieve ahh proper shot you know your shots always going to be off horizontal plane and the shots just never going to look good and you're gonna have to muscle it too much and there's just getting to be too much movement introduce into the shot that you don't want uh I generally use uh either a fourteen cannon fourteen lens two point eight or I'll use the new cannon version to twenty four to seventy and I'll probably be a twenty for sometimes depending on the situation I'll punch in a little bit uh now what's the problem with these cameras being on a glide cam like that as opposed to being on a tripod if you do punch it in you're changing the balance of the whole rig exactly so you're gonna have to rebalance number one but but the second challenge is trying to maintain focus because now if I try to manipulate the focus ring basically throwing it off balance so I can't do that so what do we do we pre focus a lot so a lot of these all the ceremonies if we're talking about a procession I will pre focus a distance so I'll set my foot girl distance to maybe like five or six feet because I'll know I'll be five or six feet away from the broader party or the bride's and I'll just live with that if I'm outside I have a lot more flexibility because I can even set the aperture to say like a five point six six point three give me a little bit more range but if you're in a little it uh indoor ceremony you're gonna have to shoot wide open and you're really gonna have to be mindful of the distance between you and your subject if you pre set if you predetermine that distance you have to be really mindful or they're really they're going to fall out of focus really quick okay back to the ceremony alex l wanted to know if there was a huge window with a view say behind the efficient during the ceremony how do you expose for that or how do you get the bride and groom and focus when there's light pouring in behind them you just have to shoot on an angle because if you shoot backlit it's depending on the situation it's never going to be a great situation because everything behind that you know they're probably underexposed and everything behind them is very bright and over exposed so and you have to obviously expose for your efficient and the bride the groom so when she exposed for them you're going to even blow up the background even more so depending on the situation sometimes when you blow out the background that situation everything just turns white behind them so that's not too bad of a situation because that white just becomes like a campus uh so it just depends on what you're seeing visually on camera but I would tell you it's it's probably a better idea just to shoot in from an angle so you're not getting that bright light coming from behind them cool thank you ray do you have any advice this is from ro coco films you have any advice for aspiring wedding photographers who want to follow in your footsteps how to create client a client base and start marketing when they don't quite have anything to show yet when they show off topic films that they've made or what would you advise um if you don't have any work to show it all it gets kind of tough you know you kind of start from the bottom up almost like when I first started I didn't have anything to show so what happened I would have to do maybe like a free wedding just have some type of portfolio so I don't even know that the client would trust him enough to document their wet wedding if they couldn't see something that he's done in the past wedding related it very very difficult so I would almost I would almost get him to try toe maybe do something for free I mean probably most of us in this room at some point have done something for free just to kind of build that portfolio just have something to sell