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Bridal Shows

welcome to day two of the wedding business boot camp and this is in fact a blueprint for your business or no matter where you are in your career whether you're a beginner whether you're a seasoned veteran I guarantee you we have information here that is relevant to you so what I want to really quickly is just give you an overview of what we're going to cover today so today we're going to cover bridal shows right so if you're interested in getting into bridal shows what's our set up what's our mindset how do we close business at the bridal show and I think this is extremely important we're going to show you a live initial consultation so we have an engaged couple that will be here in the studio with us and we're going to do a consultation with them we're going to show you howto have that conversation which I know sometimes or photographers is horrifying to even think about like how do I sit down and talk to clients and some of you are smiling but it is true we all get we all freeze how ...

do we close the deal at that initial consultation on dh then we're going in this afternoon we will do a live engagement session so we're going to do a live shoot we're gonna like them pose them and I came up with three different lighting scenarios I want to offer up right one is going to be with video light one is going to be with off camera flash and then if possible will try and use a reflector or just natural like you know we are here in seattle so we got to deal with the with the weather where it just seems to rain all the time but we're gonna have some fun so today is definitely an action packed day what I want to do is though cover once again how to use this course so if you miss yesterday and you miss that intro on how to use this this is in fact the blueprint for your business we are leaving it all on the table right we're not hiding anything from you if you are serious about being a wedding photographer if you're serious about being any kind of attire for yesterday was all business and we're going to go through the entire process everything you need to be an established photographer and studio so I'm going to show you everything we do to run our business this is a blueprint there is no other resource like it on the market I have never seen anyone I'm willing to take five years of knowledge and try and drop it into a five day window that's why I think the girls here are overwhelmed and I'm sure a lot of you out there overwhelmed from yesterday just a ton of information but I'd rather give you too much information than not enough you're gonna get our forms are processes are communications we run a successful studio so we're not just tellingyou theoretical nonsense here we're giving you what we do to run a studio we shoot anywhere from forty to fifty five weddings a year so I would say were pretty active studio and that's just me and my wife we grew have grown our business during the middle of a recession and our studios making real money so we are an active studio but here's what I need to do do not tell me how this won't work for your business if you're sitting out there and the reason I bring this up again because yesterday my team is sitting in the chat room and I guess yesterday somebody was in the chat room and I love the chat room by the way because they they'll just squash anything ridiculous that it said somebody was in the chat room yesterday it was like yeah this is all great information but this would never work in my market are you kidding me like do this will work in your market stop talking like that in the chat room just ignored this person when they said that because you're that means you're not getting it there is no way this won't work in your market you know why because this is business basic business principles this isn't some newfangled idea that south came up with this is really information eh so if you're just sitting there thinking about how this won't work and it's not applicable in your market just close your browser right now I don't even want you watching anymore it's you're not paying attention mad like knock it off let's get into it man so we are going to start talking about bridal shows today and I want you guys out there on the internet ladies out here questions man I want you to think about questions today I'm ready to handle any kind of questions you have around bridal shows because if you re one yesterday right you remember brides are telling us I think it was sixty something percent off the top of my head that they go to bridal shows right somewhere in that neighborhood they go to brussels that's how they're finding their vendors and so all those photographers out there who are going na men bridal show sock there's tyre kickers man you're missing the boat fifty percent of our business comes from bridal shows fifty percent that's a lot of our business that's coming from bridal shows they're inexpensive for the most part right you can go to a bridal show where you can do a table set up for five hundred bucks well worth it there's other bridal shows that we've participated in where table no kidding this big is seven to ten thousand dollars okay so you've got to make up your mind where you want to participate and we'll talk about how to figure those out but ultimately you still need to be there and the main reason you want to be there is because this is the one room all your clients are in its guarantee it's a bridal show so everybody in the room is a potential client for you why would you not want to be there there is no scenario in my mind I can think about where I would not want to be in a building where all my potential clients are right I'm not talking about going to a baby show and looking for weddings right I'm talking about going to the one show where there's anywhere from five hundred to a thousand of perspective clients in there and you've got to understand you've got to change your mindset about bridal shows you anything you want to think about it what is your perspective right what is your I'm sorry your mindset when you walk into a bridal show see I find that the photographers who don't want to be part of a bridal show going with the wrong mindset there thinking I'm gonna do this broad shoulders a thousand brides were going to book one hundred weddings no no you're not that's not how it works okay when I go to a bridal show I'm looking to book three to four weddings that's a reasonable number so if you put if you put your mind right and you walk into a bridal show with the right expectations you're going to be absolutely fine but if you go in there thinking that this is going to go one show and now you're going to rule the world you're going to be let down when you walk out of that show so what is truly a mindset when you walk in there and if you remember all day yesterday what were we talking about how to find the right clients so if there's a thousand brides at a bridal show and one of the shows I do in st louis they have anywhere from eight hundred to fifteen hundred brides at their january show I can't book fifteen hundred weddings I don't want to but fifteen hundred weddings I'm looking for my bride she's a needle in a haystack there's four brides in that fifteen hundred bride pool that I'm looking for that's my mission that's my mindset when I walk in there it's not making sense I'm curious I want to pause here for you how many of you were actively doing bridal shows so four of you of the bridal shows that what is your what is your perception of the bridal show do you think it's a good thing to be part of our bad thing to be part of I've always liked it but I get conflicting messages from other people but like what you were talking about they want yeah they don't want you there yeah brooke I like talking to people it's just like a regular wedding day where I'm talking a mile a minute to all these people I'm bubbly and excited and I want to hear about how they got engaged and wins the wedding day and where you're getting married and what do your colors and tell me all the details so I I like the bridal shows because it really is the way I am during a wedding day when I'm excited on the wedding day for them so are you having success if the's product shows I am I mean but you know I would like to make it I like the idea where we're going with it on doing less is more what we were talking about this morning yeah we'll cover that for sure but so so far you've had a good experience with with private shows I've actually done one this is my second year in business so I loved it I was excited going into it I didn't expect to get like a hundred wedding but um but I only came out with one and I was a little disappointed in that I was hoping to come out with like three or four so um but I am going to do more thiss coming here and but same thing with darlene I love talking to the bride's I I I got into wedding photography because I love being part of the wedding day so I like the excitement of you know hearing their stories and that's why you do it well and I love the contrast right here we go you sit next to darlene and she's had great success or scott success at bridal shows and here we got we jumped to you because your your stories are all going to resonate with the internet right because we're gonna have people out there who are like killing it at bridal shows and we're going to people out there who are like brothers show suck I can't get him to work so I love that we have different messages here so you're you know you're saying hey I'm having mixed results out there with that so that's perfect don't worry about it we're gonna talk more show well one thing is trying to get into bridal shows that I can't get into that is years and years out so that's one of my we're going to talk a little bit about that also it's having the bride just come up to you and you know want pricing they don't even want any other you you can't talk to them about their anyone talk to you just give me your prices and love that is so hard for me because you know I want to find out more information but you know then the other bride that's really your bride is already out of your booth because it's right so it's tryingto figure out what to say exactly to them I love it because we're going to cover just not so that is perfect your show until we talk this morning a little bit I thought I wasn't doing while I battle shows because I was only averaging like two three for her bridal show but now that I understand that's a decent number I'm okay with it it's a mindset thing yeah I have a couple girls that go with me that are friends of mine that are really dynamic it sells and talking to people and stuff like that and they really helped me out because with a number of people coming by it's hard to talk one on one when there's you know four people at your booth so I have a couple people that go with me and help me talking it's really I guess I'm doing okay but I can't wait to see exactly how you set up and I already saw that you're much uh wait wise lighter set up than I do and that looks fantastic setup is very clean very simple to the point obviously we're going to cover that and lisa I haven't exhibited any yet but I have attended one um just to see what they were like and then I helped a friend exhibit and I did notice there was a lot of tire kickers but there were some that were very interested yet in the end I don't think he ended up booking any although there were meetings so I'm just curious to know how to convert love it right so all five of your stories I mean couldn't be more perfect we've got we've got this spectrum from I've never done one too I do them and were successful and everybody out there on the internet I hope you're paying attention because one of their stories is definitely going to resonate with you and we're going to cover all five of these young kennedy we got stories coming in online love so of a rawlings says we learned from south uh south his plan for bridal shows and we went from booking one wedding at a bridal show to booking seven weddings at our last bridal shows yes you sell so it's not just about being there but we're going to learn what you do there yeah well absolutely right you don't just want to show up if you just show up to the bridal show and check out man forget it it doesn't work that way so you know if you're ah little more introverted and you don't like having that conversation you're probably going to struggle a little so we got to get you to break out of that shell and show you how to have the conversation which is a little bit about what we're going to cover today so I love your stories by the way so this is perfect and keep those stories coming in so how do we decide on what shows to participate in right there is a million shows out there no matter where you are what part of the country you're in even part of the world there are going to be bridal shows of some former fashion so how do we decide first of all let me tell you guys we do five to seven bridal shows the you that's a lot of shows right we I would say we run a very successful studio if we're booking right on average forty two fifty plus weddings a year that's pretty successful our name is out there they know who we are so how can we still do broad shows right I run into photographers all the time and they're like now we don't have to do bridal shows anymore okay the clock's ticking because you're going to go out of business at some point right you just basically pulled back remember the five tenants yesterday brides told us yesterday that they are in one of five places internet search to find their photographers internet search bridal shows magazines referrals right and there was one other I can't remember off the top of my head so if that's where they're telling us okay they are what are you doing to be at each one of those five places I have to be in each place my bride is telling me that she's looking for a photographer I'm never going to give up bridal shows not gonna happen brides are going there my mission has to be to convert to those three to five brides find those three to five bride so you cannot give up on bridal shows no matter how long you've been in business that's just bad business this is a marketing staple for you so how do we decide on the shows to go to it is a little bit of a crapshoot guys know I'm not gonna lie we will do almost any show once okay and we'll see how it goes so we did a show a couple of years ago and there was a snowstorm that weekend so we get we only booked a one wedding out of there and so I you know that wasn't a very good show for us so we said ok let's go back next year tried again it was pretty inexpensive we went back again the next year horrible turn out right they didn't have brides in the room they actually had less then one hundred brides show up to the show so we never went back so I'm willing to try and fail at a show just to see what it's like can we get our name out there can we meet with those broads here's what you need to do you need to ask for a media kit every bridal show should have a media kit that they can produce for you and what is a media kit immediate kid basically should be able to tell you what the demographics are for that bride okay our average bride is twenty three years old average household incomings acts average amount they spend on their wedding is why they should be able to give you those numbers if they can't give you those numbers I would question the validity of that show right that just sounds like more of a little boutique show that somebody's throwing together and if you want to experiment and go after that go for it but you have to know if they can't give you those metrics that means they don't even know who their target bride is and I don't necessarily want to be in a show right where no one knows who our target bride is now this may you guys out there maybe thinking yourself if you were watching yesterday like well wait a minutes out yesterday you told us that your client is not defined by a number your decline is not defined by necessarily demographic take your clients to find is that person who has the money to spend on photography right that's what we talked about yesterday and that is a true statement but here's what I don't want to do I don't want to show up to a show where I know right out of the gate ninety nine percent of the people can't afford me that is a bad show for me to be and I don't want to be there I want to get a show where at least I know the people in the room on average have money right to to be with me does not make sense here's the other thing to consider in doing those shows the reason they should be able to produce those demographics is because most shows are tied to a magazine whether them whether they own the magazine or the magazine owns the show or they're affiliated with the magazine if they're not affiliated with the magazine answer me this how they produce promoting the show that that should be a concern you right if they don't get the word out about this show then there's no chance of them having brides in the room that's why it's so important that they're affiliated with the magazine now every city is different right not all cities are affiliated with a magazine so you're gonna have to take a chance or go visit that show but guess what there's two times a year where it makes sense to be at the shows and those times are january right majority of engagements happened over the holidays so between november and december is engagement season that's just the way it works from their january february that's when you want to pounce on these shows and that's when we do the show so we will do now we do some shows throughout the year but we'll do four shows in january five shows in january because that is bridal show season that's when you want to be there then you want to start doing them maybe in the latter part of the summer so like you know august september in that range and most cities will have those I'm not real big on doing bridal shows in june I'm not real big on doing bridal shows in october uh I don't like that so that's where I'm targeting again how many do we do I told you guys anywhere from five to seven but I want to rewind here I want to go back to the cost of a bridal show uh we do to separate shows we do one where it's like that five six seven hundred dollars a table okay for a show and then we do one up in new york one up in chicago and it's called the wedding salon in the wedding salon offers four shows across the u s they do new york chicago miami l a so they do four major shows and their tables can cost you anywhere depending on the city between six to ten thousand dollars what I love about this show is that they limit the number of photographers that air in the room now I haven't done that show and over a year so I know some things may have changed with them so do some research there but that wedding I was talking about yesterday that three hundred thousand dollar wedding that wedding was booked at right the wedding salon show up in up in new york and so these are the kind of brides they attract their rights you gotta pay to play and they limit the photographers right so when I go in there there's only four photographers in the room and you've got all these prequalified bride so for example they charge this is something else you may want to consider when looking at bridal shows how much did they charge the bride to be there if it's free entry you better run man run run run because yes ninety nine percent are going to be tyre kickers so it should not be free entry there should be a nominal fee to get in so some of the bridal shows we doing saying though is it's a five ten dollars feed but it's good because now you know they're at least a little bit serious about getting in the room well the one I'm telling you these high end bridal shows we do entry's fifty dollars per person so do your serious if you're spending fifty dollars a ticket you are serious about being in the in that room especially if you're bringing your mom and your bridesmaid and you've dropped one hundred fifty to two hundred bucks to be in that room you are serious about being there so very very important that you understand all that what to wear this is it guys this is what I wear this is my bridal show ah attire I don't show up in my booth wearing a tuxedo or some monkey suit because that's not me I'm not going to show up to your wedding day in a tuxedo I'm sure as hell not going to work in the booth in a tuxedo and as crazy as it seems we still have a little bit of that in the midwest I goto bridal shows and I see I see you know the photographer hates the hair in a tuxedo or in a suit and they look uncomfortable and guess what that's not what your bride's expect we don't live in this formal day and age any more brides don't expect to see you standing there in a tuxedo you know who that impresses the parents but guess what we talked about this yesterday the parents are not my target the parents aren't paying for the weddings anymore the kids are so I want to relate to the kids and guess when I say kids I'm talking about twenty two twenty three twenty five year old you guess what the kids I hate to say this I'm not looking to be superficial because what they know brands you understand if you want to understand your bride you need to understand that they understand brands they noguchi they know product they know louis vuitton they know true religion right I'll have a bride walking to my booth and I like who I love your jeans all right you girls this morning we're saying I love your boots right you're diggin my boots you want a close up of the boots I don't know if you need him right but you guys were digging that you noticed that okay and we're not even at a bridal show so what do you think happens when my bride's walk in they're noticing the way I'm dressed they are making judgment calls on who I am is a person in that first two seconds we're back to consumer and human behavior we all do it by the way don't we we all look at people and prejudge them ok I'm not judging you for prejudging people I'm just calling it like it is this is reality we live in a world where if I walk in and I'm completely disheveled all wrinkled somebody's going to look at me and go there's no way I'm letting that guy photograph my wedding right if I show up in a tuxedo and stuffy suit right they're gonna look at me and think I'm a little bit more conservative do we all agree with this am I the only person who sits in the airport and people launches its fun right that's like the best game in the world right I mean taylor do that all the time it makes time go by it's so much fun but you gotta understand this is human behavior everybody doesn't so if we know everybody does it right I'm not saying it's right I'm not saying it's wrong I just know what happens so I have to be conscious of that you have to be conscious of that about the way you dress the way you present yourself right so dress within yourself and understand how branding and how you as the photographer are justus much a part of your brand as your images are sometimes I think me and my purse personality is more part of my brand of my actual imagery what do you think about that right and so we've got to consider that another concept I see which I think is completely horrible having clients in your booth is a live testimonial this got really popular I want to say like three four five years ago I think it's the most preposterous thing I've ever seen in my life and so for those of you who don't know about this like what for tigers will do is they'll have a booth set up to booth set up and they'll have a bride and groom who got married you know with the studio sitting in the booth acting his live testimonials okay you want to know what it's like to work with us talk to our building susie holy cow man this is this is horrible this is a really really bad idea I don't know who came up with the idea but it's stupid stopped doing it it doesn't work because now you've got them sitting right in this fish bowl so to speak they don't look interested I mean I don't know about you but if I didn't have to be sitting at a bridal show for five six seven hours I wouldn't want to be there so now I put my bridegroom there and they're sitting there and they don't want to be there for five six seven hours one likely the groom doesn't want to be there I mean doing bridal shows were like on a saturday or sunday you know where he wants to be watching football back home all right I wouldn't want to be sitting in that booth for five hours so he's gonna look unapproachable he's going to look this interested and so this can backfire on you so don't do that you don't need live testimonials in your booth I think what you need instead is right just two people in the booth max you don't want any more than two people that all you're gonna do is clutter your booth with the wrong type of message the wrong type of of energy there and so but I want to do is I want to take some questions before we go look at our booth and mostly from you late what do you think ladies about some of the things we're talking about here especially around figuring out what shows to be in what some of the challenges you faced in selecting a bridal show well I'm I'm intrigued on doing the five to seven shows because the most I've ever have participated would be two in the same year and thought oh my gosh that was a lot of money for two shows and to consider doing anything more than tio would be a very big step for me because I just felt like two was enough to do one here and then give myself a break and hopefully if I didn't book anything from that first one that I could maybe book something with the second one um so I I'm interested to see if I can find five shows because it's even hard to find five because there was one show that I got experience right right so you don't want it you don't want to just limit yourself to your market that's actually a great segue way I get asked all the time south how do I get into destination weddings destination market so for me I want to photograph in st louis I want a photograph in chicago I wanna photograph in new york how am I gonna break into those markets I can't just put on my website we photographed in new york that's not gonna work we actually go up to new york and do new york bridal shows we go up to chicago and new chicago bridal shows of course we're very selective in what shows we're going to go up there and do I can't go up there and do a very low and show I don't have that luxury of failing when I go up there right because it's out of my normal market so you can't be afraid to expand your reach especially if you're looking for a needle in a haystack which basically we are right and you have to understand that part of the show's as long as the shows pay for themselves I usually feel comfortable now I'm not suggesting that's our measuring stick right I don't want to go to a show and book one wedding that would not be successful but if I go to a show on book one wedding a couple of things happened one it's exposure for my business I'm at the bridal show people have seen who I am bride's maids or seeing who I am remember what we talked about yesterday the worst thing that could happen to me is my bride starts telling her friends and family who her photographer is right so who's photographing your wedding susie south's in kata I've never heard him that would be the worst thing that could happen to my brand and that's my fault that's your fault if that's happening to you and no one knows who you are that means you're not following basic marketing principles that's in and of itself why you have to do more shows and if we go back to the business plan right from yesterday and we talked about how much am I spending on marketing and advertising well if you want to do one hundred thousand dollars in weddings in theory you should be spending about ten to fifteen thousand dollars in marketing you could do five bridal shows and not even come close to spending ten grand with me that's how you have to start thinking about it so it's good that's good objection I like this that was interesting because the ones that have been to I look att the vendors who have been their photography and otherwise and I'm like uh I'm not really sure this would be a good fit but I don't know about the brides that are attending so it could be a good fit but then you look at the vendors and you're not sure because I don't think they're no one's prequalified just feed the money you could get in right so you need that media kid right immediate kids going to give you a sense of who's going to be there because you will find that the higher end venues you know whether it's the caterers the planners they're not going to low in shows so if you don't see that caliber vendor there is a good chance there's a reason for that right and so I forget I forget him there's companies out there here's what you think about look at starbucks right we're in seattle so we're in the land of starbucks they do a lot of market research okay spend tons of money to figure out where the next best location is open up a store now you were in seattle right so their idea of marketing and the opening of new stores is basically every other corner there's a starbucks and that's fine but when you get out of outside of seattle they do a lot of market research to look at local demographics traffic rates all this stuff so that you realize rather than reinvent the wheel and I hope you guys are all following where I'm going with this rather than reinvent the wheel from a marketing perspective if you are a new business and you're trying to figure out where do I open up my location just look at where starbucks is he's going follow star boats we already know starbucks has spent millions and millions of dollars forecasting growth patterns income levels demographics I don't want to spend tens of thousands of dollars mark figuring all this out right doing traffic analysis trend analysis just go with what starbucks is done when they're a billion dollar company same concept for bridal shows right there's tried and true companies out there catering facilities wedding planners if they're not going to the show's not photographers just ignore photographers and what they're doing there's if they're not going to the shows there's a good chance there's a reason for that and so you need to look at who has been at these shows from that perspective so that's a really good conversation lisa I like the way you're thinking about that let's hit the internet so so you talked about doing bridal shows in other cities yes that you would like tio break into so sander vered devyn from the netherlands would like to know if you also go to bridal shows and other countries like in europe or asia and you recommend that I would write so he's from the netherlands right europe is an interesting place because in europe you know for us from going from like st louis to new york is like them going from italy to paris it's just you know puddle jumper there there so for me if I if I'm him and I want to cover other parts of europe I would be jumping all over europe covering those bridal shows absolutely without it out so yes would you from the united states what I from the united states and I would love to but I think here's the problem when you take go from the united states to italy and you're doing an italy bridal show let's say who am I really going after I'm not going after a u s citizen going to italy to get married I'm now going after a local italian family looking get married and I'm not sure from my business that would make sense right from the united states I want to take a u s based custom and go over to over to europe and attract those well where are those clients coming from a lot of them are coming out of new york and if they go over there going from new york over right or l a over to the other part of the world so that's where I would be in those bridal shows looking form you don't a perfect example not to get sidetracked we did that bridal show up in new york the wedding salon and I would say off the twenty or so brides that we had kind of warm fuzzies with right those leads from I want to say half of them were destination based but they weren't going they weren't going to europe they were actually going to like asia all right you know vietnamese weddings you know thailand weddings I mean I was like stoked I wanted to go over there I'm like dude let's get on an elephant that's all I care about you know so I wanted those weddings but you want to be stateside going over to europe not europe attracting that local market cause I don't think they'll pay our prices for wedding photography okay there's a quote for the quote contest you want to get it on an elephant all right so we have a number of people who have are just starting out with small portfolios we have dats photography loose intra tasha and g to want to give them all shout outs they just have one wedding or maybe a couple not a big portfolio do you recommend the bridal show wow you know I can't believe I didn't cover this let's talk about this for a second so if you're just starting out I am going to share as usual my dirty laundry on when I first started so when I first started back in two thousand eight right remember I've been shooting on the side I'd been second shooting for people born your second shooter you don't have your own portfolio and so you can't necessarily go out and show that work unless you've been given the rights to it but even if you have been given the rights to it the shooting through a second shooter's eyes rarely are going to give you the kind of images you need to produce a wedding album and produce the right kind of displays you need to be in that primary shooters role so here is exactly what I did guys here's my blueprint for you if you're just starting out and you only have one wedding under your belt you only have one no weddings on your ballot lisa where you out you're in this situation lisa aren't you alright I'm giving you the blueprint right here lisa game on I see right man here's what I did I ran an ad on craigslist and this don't judge me alright this is before the days where it was weird to be on craigslist but here's here's what I did and you could still do this I ran an ad saying I'm looking I said local wedding photographer looking to expand their portfolio okay this is the copy for your ad I don't care where you run it local wedding photographer looking to expand their portfolio looking for two attractive couples yes I said it attractive couples we don't want ugly people I'm sorry I'm not looking to be superficial but we're building a portfolio right so we want to make sure that we've got a bridegroom that we can put on display so this is the world we live in this is reality looking for two attractive couples getting married in the next ninety days this is important I don't want to wait for you to get married a year from now if you're not getting married in the next ninety days you're of no use to me so looking for you to get married in the next ninety days please send pictures I've got to see what you look like I've got to see if you're gonna be a fit for what I'm trying to do and so that with that ad I booked two weddings right out of the gate okay I cost so I charged them five hundred bucks gave them their cd of images and those were my two weddings and I shot them both in a sixty day window I went to my first bridal show and all I had were images displayed from those two weddings and I had two albums one from each wedding that I designed and printed and had their and here's what I did I had a bunch of other like second shooter shots that I had worked with maybe a model or two or friend who I threw in a wedding dress and I produced ah best of album and the album was like the best of two thousand eight right total nonsense but you get sometimes you know the saying you gotta fake it till you make it and this is what I did so I went to that bridal show and my brides would come up and you've got to use your weaknesses to your advantage so my brides would come up and they're looking through that stuff in there like well do you have anything else uh you know first look at my guys look you know I could have brought a lot of other images here but the truth is I don't want to overwhelm me with all these images so what I did was I took this book and it's just the best off so you could see a you know sprinkling of everything we do and then here's to weddings that we've recently shot you know because I don't want to show you a wedding from ten years ago because my style has changed so much since then dude I wasn't shooting ten years ago wright and so they're like oh no that makes total sense yes right the b s winds so sometimes you gotta you gotta you gotta you can't be afraid teo you know ham it up a little bit and work to your advantage so hopefully that seems reasonable to her out there and that's a great way to get started lisa do you feel like you can pull it off craigslist baby yeah I don't know be careful what you get out there today