Lessons

Lesson Info

Shoot: Creative Portraits

we're in a hotel lobby we're in a uh in the venue's reception hall where in the church uh you know in a waiting area we have got to use whatever we've got to be creative so I'm going back in the aperture priority and probably go is so um four hundred and two point eight right so that hold on cameras coming back right those are gonna be my starting points and I'm in auto white bounds and so we've got to be creative with what we have so I know I want each one of the groomsmen uh together so let me get lynn come on in here so what I'm gonna have you do lynn is I'm gonna have you stand right here up here come on up and then my groomsmen come on up you're just gonna stand there okay flip towards me right there perfect and I just want you to get in one of the time come on in so I'm looking to get each one of the groomsmen together go and get right next to you yeah you guys like each other here we go all right we get a test shot okay so here's what that these are the kind of shots I'm going t...

o start taking all right we're losing a little bit of light here in sunny seattle one too good smiles one more one more done next up that's how quick we would work and the only thing I'm doing as a second shooter at this point is just getting the line of ties going down so I don't know if you guys saw me come over here and it just took one shot while sells shooting just to get the ties down then I'll show him what that should look like this and the shot I'm expecting so half step off there you go and so taylor's getting stuff like this right you so she's got something that is complimentary in the album okay does that don't be shooting right here because they're not going to know which camera to look at if you're being distracting that's a great point I don't want my second shooter here my second shooter is also the girls are all over here so let's have the girls here so come on in usually my bride and bridesmaids uh there standing right here watching uh whatever we're doing so come on over right here so they're just here okay guess what taylor's doing taylor's photographing she's probably standing over here shooting back into uh looking at the bride's maids and what they're doing goofing around talk and have fun with each other okay that's my second shooter's job all right you could probably you're right you want to get them out of the way you're not my way taylor's got she's not tether all right so here we go now to get a shot of you guys good smiles one to one more one more so notice I took three shots now they're done and they are freaking out and how quickly we are moving through this that is the goal speed efficiency and get what you need now what I want to do is just maybe something with the groomsmen chilling alone maybe if every guy I sit on the couch was my other groomsmen come on in here yeah and I'm gonna put you here in that corner yeah switch down and maybe my man I've got you chip chilling on the wall or something actually how about this we have you on the wall too yeah you're just showing leaning back your own in the wall and then I did you get your almost too comfortable body so get in the middle right be careful let lindsay like leaning back he's lounging riding feels comfortable but it doesn't look good in a photograph so then what I want you to do is maybe lean forward bring your butt all the way to the edge of the chair spread your stance and leaning in there we go buddy right so what I'm looking to do here is create something a little more masculine form okay so lynn what I want you two boys I want you looking out the window and so here's some shots I might get of lin so lynn you're looking right at me lobby dude okay I'm seeing this already in my head as a black and white shot awesome lin I love your expression on that here we go keep looking to make a lot of dude was chris telling you to have your a game today love it keep going without lynn now I'm zooming in on his hands just getting some shots of his hands I'm vertical horizontal now listen I want you looking out the window yeah that's what I want buddy lovett what I was going to say is what sells setting these guys up uh chris has the best expression on their faces just laughing and enjoying him so it's a really natural expression and something great to capture as a second shooter is the stuff that sal doesn't even know and can't know what's going on perfect so let's keep let's keep going with this lynn and boys I want everybody looking at me now right and maybe there you go and everybody's I love your two expressions very stoic in the background so lin you're too happy they're like mean mugging yeah there we go yeah you own it now and love it and when he starts laughing I'm not going to start stop shooting right I'm looking for that all right let's stay with that gentleman perfect that's all right I love you buddy I'm shooting away man that's why I've got that's why I've got you got to think about what's happening right now everybody this is what I'm doing I intentionally have my bride here watching what's going on because he's giving me even though I'm asking him to be serious for a second he cannot stop laughing uh is at his bride because she's making fun of him on dh that's perfect so hopefully my second shooter is catching her making fun of him and I'm catching his response to it this is completely controlled so this has nothing to do with us being on creative live this is happening because this is the way we stage and run our day we know that if we force two people to look at each other they're probably going to start laughing and it's going to be natural so we're controlling and creating the moment that's probably a better way to think about it we're not hoping the moment happens we're not state necessarily forcing the moment we're create staging and creating the moment right so let me show you want to use my camera just to show the audience what we've been um what we would shoot from your angle and I'll direct lynn again okay so that you're doing it be tight with it bites elaine just pretend I got a camera hi buddy yeah let's go serious first all right and like chris if you want to make fun of him again you can totally make fun of him while taylor's doing that she's going back and forth between the bride and groom so now taylor is I'm directing the groom okay she's moving around uh that's gonna be a good shots elaine yeah you're looking at me give me some give me some serious expression right look out the window now all right funny stuff going on out there yeah I love it perfect all right so I don't know what images coming up we can't see the screen bring this back around for me so I can have that court now here's what I want to do again gentlemen I want to have all three of you sitting down so sit down next to arlen so now what I might do is again this could be happening in a hotel lobby do not be a victim of circumstance do not worry on blame everybody else for why you're not getting a shot look at your environment take whatever you have and use it to the best of your ability so now gentlemen open up your jackets so here's what I want you guys doing I want you guys getting very casual with each other okay and just shooting the shit with each other okay so talk to each other tell a story lin tell a funny story there's a priest a rabbi and they walk into a bar I don't know tell a story and as the second shooter I'm paying attention to what sal is shooting and trying to shoot opposite so he's got a seventy two hundred on and shining horizontal if I had a seventy two hundred on I could come right behind him and do a different focal length and go vertical just to get a different uh line of sight or stick with my seventy two hundred and go wide right over his shoulder so even though we're it's taking half the amount of time to get all the pictures that we need to get because we're always opposite angles opposite lenses the whole day that's why we have so much diversity in our portfolio well now these guys you through your done good job I don't know what stories you were telling but I'm sure they were good all right you're done now I'm gonna take my bridesmaids through the same process and I'm gonna work just is quickly so come on here okay so chris you're gonna be right there in the middle and then one at a time I want you to step in so again my settings I'm going about four point on my camera get on in there with the flowers there you go get right next to each other I am focusing on my bride bride is what I am is what I'm focusing on I'm also adjusting her details and you can't see it at home your necklace is crooklyn crooked and then you got the little hoop esso put the lock all the way behind your neck so I'm paying attention all these little details on my bride again earning trust earning respect earning confidence from my couple exactly here we go so you to get in there yeah charm around her waist awesome here we go one two it's smiles awesome one more and do me a favor you two just talking to each other or your friends you go way back and what I'm doing there by getting them to talk to each other is getting a little bit more candid expression from them and that's the goal you're done perfect come on in next up no flash this is how I work this is how quickly and efficiently we work get on in there with her you love her perfect and just talking to each other one more time awesome and that's it I would do that boom boom boom boom bridesmaid bridesmaid bridesmaid now I want to get all my bridesmaids together here's what I want you thinking about taylor help me move this you know the movie bridesmaids right do you remember the cover of that movie by any chance right it's a hole but you don't remember it I can tell just by the look on your face and that's ok now you know what he says I'm talking to them and goofing around with them they're laughing they're giving us natural reaction you know what's happening right now my second shooter is like a ninja picking this stuff off knowing that I'm about to goof around with him that is very very important but in the interim let's move this couch off here pull it down yes we move furniture all the time there's nothing wrong with that so now what I want you is chris here I want you here like this okay holding you boot your bouquet here so come on in good let's get this behind you a little bit see that awesome here's what I want you to know I want you to come here okay and I want you keeping your hip away maybe you're on her shoulder like this okay let's get that going yeah I like that put your left hand on your hip good I like it good and then what I want you to do is I want you here like this holding you you're ok here and just make it make it feel sassy give me a lot of sad love it that's what I'm talking about this bridesmaids right here I need you to move closer for me to her there you go good good all right so ladies here's what I need out of you any two looks out of you one is your big smiles I've seen all of you smiling you got beautiful smiles the next one I need is your sassy look okay and as I'm talking to them my second shooter is right here waiting for these moments ok let me see your size you got size sass you got size you got there you go you're doing good so when I need sas we need sounds you're doing great ladies all those candid moments with me goofing around with them my second shooter is picking off providing balance to my portfolio okay god you three keep talking I love it looking out that window there's good stuff going on out there all right I'm going vertical horizontal now it was very liberating right now I'm not I'm not limited by the tether all right here we go ladies all looking at me sassy stay there with it also noticed I'm going vertical horizontal seventy one hundred two hundred you should see my hands they're all moving the camera's not coming away from my face looking out the window again being sassy awesome talking to each other awesome ladies perfect and I'm done and that's how much time I would spend that's how quickly I would move I would do what I had to do to get the shots I needed I got the bride with each one of her bridesmaids I got the groom with each one of his groomsmen I got all the groomsmen together I got all the bridesmaids together and now once I untethered I didn't have to slow down my shooting I just kept going as quickly and a normal pace is I would work which is usually a lot faster then most photographers would work now I want to get the two of you off here for a second you'll stay there lin let's get you back in class is off so len what I want to have you do is stand right here hands in the pockets and turned towards that window a little bit yeah and I'm gonna have you write here chris leading right back there okay and leading straight back good holding up okay there all right and late I'm gonna move you ride here good all right so some things I've got to get now I want I want the groom and I'm gonna get a picture of him alone and then I want the groom with my bride layered in the background very similar to what we were doing on the engagement pictures I don't want just a wall behind them I want layers I also need a picture of just the bouquet in her hands that's my second shooter job capturing these little details and I can also get the bride by herself while south shooting the two of them together because they're separated now we're just adding more diversity aiken zoom in with the seventy two hundred and get her just by yourself three quarters up all right so what I'm gonna do is come here is much possibly can alright so what I want to do is I want to isolate can I can I get a camera here or no all right yeah let's take some questions while we're waiting for this otherworldly technical difficulties that's it live live broadcasts how we roll sometime so vicky from salvador would like to know what about if the wedding was at night when you don't have any window light in the same situation what would you do video like video light or flash so if you're watching it was a tuesday we talked about the engagement session I pulled out some video lights that's why I always carry four of those lights in my bag for situations like this but if you've got a group where it's ten on each side and it's dark out already you have a major problem started in lambs turning on indoor lights using as much light as you can yeah there was a situation where that has happened in the past and we go right into the hotel ballroom maybe the lobby and we're using whatever we can tow like people up and so you know again this comes back to I hate to say it the timeline but by that's why we control the timeline because we know if they're scheduling creatives for seven p m and it gets dark at five p m that's not gonna work right so it's not a surprise when we get there were always aware of what our surroundings they're gonna be so a follow up question that if that did happen would you just bring in more lights and just go with their schedule or would you make them change it I know we talked about this before but just to clarify what you say they they demand it's at seven pm so we're gonna have to bring in more lights no if they if they demand that let's say to new year's eve wedding that's a riel world scenario if it's a new year's eve wedding and they're not getting married until seven p m we've had that happened it's dark at four p m right on new year's eve at least buy us it is and the bride doesn't want to be in her dress till six o'clock or five o'clock that's fine however just keep in mind if you want those pictures that you've seen on our website you have to give us the time we need if this is what I say this is this is what closes the deal I think for our bryant if you're okay not getting those pictures I'm okay not getting those pictures in the second I say that to my bride the light bulb goes off for her and she's like wait a minute I'm paying these people a lot of money to be there I need to give them the time they need but I can't I mean I don't want to bring in a studio set toe light thie event I travel really lightly I know we've been asked many times but people just needed reiterated you control your own destiny thank you timeline worksheet is a must have I think that is the theme it's a good thing so another question from tsc tempest in hamburg germany when you were shooting and we've got the big window that's the lit to the side of the group over here are you plus half ing or plus wanting your exposure to reduce shadows on the opposite side of the face is or what's your thought process when you're exposing here that's where that test shot comes in the play I need to see what's happening with those shadows right and I'm using a couple of things on my camera the camera screen can be very very misleading do not trust the back your camera what you need to trust is that history graham that's what that's therefore so I'm trying to make sure I'm not losing my shadow detail and I also want to make sure I'm not blowing out my highlights for that very reason so I know that there's gonna have to when I've got directional light like this coming in I know that I'm gonna have to use some fill light in light room there is going to have to be post production work done to these images but I think the key here is as much as I'd like to get it perfect in camera that sounds great in theory that sounds great in a workshop but in the real world that's not always possible so it becomes the lesser of two evils what are my capabilities in post production as long as I know what I can do in post uh that's where that's where I'm airing on that side so yeah I was I was making sure I don't lose highlight detail that's the answer to your question is long as I got the highlights I feel pretty good great thank you okay I guess another question would be from icy photography and I know we've talked about shooting with glasses but in group shots like it formal events when you have multiple people that have glasses yeah you know I mean when there's one person you can work around it but what if there's three or four p usually ask him would be like hey I'm getting a little bit of a glare on your glasses do you always wear them or do mind taking them off whatever you prefer but let's work let's work within what's it within that let's get more technical on it uh angle and his angle out and I don't know if in a lot of people know what that means unfortunately I took physics in high school and I still remember this light right travels angle in eagle's angle out in english what that means is the reason you're getting the reflection in their glasses is because this is its like red eye by the way right that's why if if I'm looking right into the camera and that light's hitting me directly that's where I'm getting that glare from so you will find that if you change the angle of your light source and change the tilt of their head a little the reflection will actually disappear on you so just keep that in mind because the light reflection and glasses while you can fix some of that in post it is not what I want you to be doing so take it off if they if they don't mind taking their glasses off but it's part of who they are I understand the angle the light is bouncing in is what's causing that reflection and in this scenario as we saw yesterday lin wanted to take them off right he told me he said I prefer having my glasses off which I find a majority of my groomsmen actually do because glasses tend to date the image my glass has become a fashion statement today and so you know I've got grooms that you know they were lighting this up but they've got certain spectacles on certain glasses on and they're they're spectacle it just reminds me of pictures from the seventies that pictures exactly date so you want to make sure you don't do that I think we're good we're tethered my team my team's got questions about questions curiosity on the video light okay um on the video light if you put it on the camera or have it off camera are the settings the same or different for this particular scenario if I were using video light on dh we were dark and we didn't have any light here the video lights would in fact be off camera because I'm so far away the video lights not gonna be able to throw far enough it's not powerful enough s oh my my my second shooter may have to actually stop shooting in order to come over here and start holding my life and now it's ours working with just the guys and I had multiple video lights cause I carry four of them in my bag I would actually have bridesmaids helping out holding light then when I'm working with the bridesmaids groomsmen helping out holding a light and you'll find that most of your groomsmen and bridesmaids I love helping out I've never had a problem where my group is that why you're still shooting wide open whether they're on your camera or off camera that's my shooting style I love that wide open look right and you got to shoot within your style good let's go all right so let me get my group up here and I think understanding out oppose your group is very important so I have you to step down for a second I'm really big on layering so uh lynn you're gonna come down chris you're gonna come down I'm really big on layering that's how I work with my group so I don't like to pose them in a perfect pyramid that is not my style off shooting so what we can do here is I want tohave you who's your date today somebody yeah so you're gonna come here I want you here almost as close as you can get ah maybe your ankles there across that the ankles come on down get a little bit closer for me good and what you're going to snuggle up right with him that put your arm around her waist get next or how about yeah switch your hips for me there you go that's what I want perfect all right you two you're gonna come right here and so I'm gonna have you on the outside and then you're going to do the same thing so you're going to get into him put your arm around her waist pivot your hip away from camera go the other way there you go you feel that perfect good and just so everybody knows I don't remember if we did this yesterday with the engagement session the one thing I teach my couples to do is how to pose so there's two things you need to teach your bridesmaids and they will love you forever the one thing they never want to do ladies is push your hip into camera you will gain ten pounds on camera if you do that okay so you always want to slide your hip away from the camera and give me that little bit of ass curve okay so that's going to shave ten pounds the other thing is all of us naturally like to pivot our next from here and that's gonna make you having in the chin so models know how to do something I call the turtle ing and that's pushing your chin out okay that is gonna think you're neck it's gonna feel ridiculous but it's gonna look good and so let's keep that in mind all right so what I want you to do don't such towards me stand straight up there you go perfect you're perfect now you two come in here I'm gonna put you dead centre court has been attacking you all day all right so get into each other and what I want you to hear from me chris uh lynn I want you with that right hand in your pocket good and chris maybe with your hand go under his shoulder underneath could go perfect yeah does not feel comfortable that's what I'm looking for beautiful and let's put her dress torn more behind her back and what I'm looking to do here guys is just create a layer you too can you just show me this way a little bit little bit little bit perfect right ok and now what I'm looking to do and taylor can you move that table for me I'm using the light that's coming in it's directional and so what's happening to you is you're getting hit with the shadow from this curtain so I don't know if we can move that here we go maybe not you go can we hold out perfect okay I'm using the light that's available it is a directional light source and so what I want alright everybody is looking at me listen to the progression guys everybody's looking at me I'm at well you'll see my settings come up on the screen in a second here everybody smiling test shot let me make sure I like it okay good smiles everybody one two good everybody being sassy gentlemen you're mean muggins everybody sassy mean mugging you two looking at each other no smile and your sassy means you go chris dropped those fire was just a little bit for me good looking at each other again everybody looking out that window you guys get in for a kiss don't give it to him though chris make him work for it you know all right give him one give me a smooch you can kiss him now chris awesome guys and what I'm doing do it one more time looking at each other kissing chris you don't have to play hard to get any more you could get a little something she's making you work lyn love it guys and what I did there and I don't know what medley of pictures air coming up is I took this group I went tight middle wide as best I could I went vertical I want horizontal I isolated the bride in room I took one shot with everybody looking at me I took it with them kissing I took it with him looking away toe add the maximum amount of diversity and I don't know if you caught it but while I was doing that taylor is floating around on the perimeter getting some of those shots while I'm working lens expression and if I ever might come over here and get chris's expression I get close upon her bouquet on the address on his tux and then zoom in where I just see their faces so it looks like they have more pictures of just the two of them instead of with the whole group questions for me absolutely questions all right so a question from rachel ants photo in devore to bar the boys want to block pennsylvania I thought it was friends why does south she these porch it's with the guys and girls separately after the after the ceremony instead of before hand to save on time during the cocktail hour for example shoot those outside the hotel the church before the ceremony exactly that's actually a great question because typically in order to do that I would need more time before the ceremony and that would mean my bride would have to get ready fifteen twenty minutes earlier my groom would have to get ready fifteen twenty minutes earlier and they typically don't want to do that they don't like getting ready for three or four hours before him and so we could do that if time allows we would absolutely do the guys alone on each guy with each other and during the time when they didn't give us that hour and a half for this then we would push for extra time in the beginning of the dates and not got all this beforehand so much as we can so very astute of her or him to figure that out and we would do it but I would tell you what eighty percent of the time we don't get that time upfront to do it so where you can cover yourself get those shots and then do a little more creative hotels don't always look the greatest I'd rather do these outside to be honest with you that's where I'd rather perform these shots okay question from uh rana rana ders I'm not sure how to say that name what factors do you look for when choosing a lot location for these shots the natural light the couch central yeah so great question you've gotta understand what's going on here right we're producing ah web show right is a live broadcast so I can't it's not ideal I can't get outside with an entire film crew and do what I would do me personally I'd love to be on a brick wall right now maybe with a park like setting and I think you know when we when we were taking breaks and planning this event as we talked to the producers and we listen to you guys out there we I didn't want to make everything rosie I wanted to show you how this is not the most beautiful spot I don't know if we've got a wide shot of this space but this is not the most exciting of spots and not ideal that's why we wanted to do this to show you that even in a not ideal situation we can still get great shots for couples I don't think the shots have been coming off my camera anyone would complain about especially once they've been processed and so what am I looking for diversity if everything was perfect I want natural light where I can get it I cannot stand using fluorescent light or or you know any kind of other artificial light source I love natural light as most of us do it's easy to work with what you see is what you get I would love to have a textured wall like a brick wall ah would wall something like that and then of course I'd love to have a park like setting again to give my client diversity so I hope that makes sense that's what I'm looking for open shade would be ideal that's great quick question from since designs taylor ever shoot the girls while south shoots the guys or do they always stayed together for this scenario we always stay together because taylor's providing balance to my portfolio and the slight and of course again the slide show we wouldn't want to have taylor unless there was a serious time crunch right but again it comes back to the timeline if you own the timeline you know if there's gonna be a time crunch but I wouldn't have taylor go off to all the girls this way and me go with the guys mostly because I need those images on the same camera for the slide show later that night okay I have a question from ville fuji and I can't actually find it right now but I think what she just of her question was that when she tries to get creative because she's a creative wedding shooter as well the people will always look at her like what were you going to just stand in a line and do these shots like how do you combat that kind of creative difference that they're not expecting yeah and that happens to us all the time so I will tell you exactly what I say when I walk into the room with the groomsmen and this I set the tone right in the morning with the bridesmaids so I'll say I'll walk into the room and I'll do this both with the groomsmen and bridesmaids again I walk into a room like hey guys um where's all my bridesmaids hey ladies my name is allison khanna I'm the photographer today and here's what I need you to do for me be ready to have some fun and so what we're not gonna do is we're not gonna do any cheesy pictures were not jumping in the air for no apparent reason I just want you to be silly I don't understand why people jump in the air it's my biggest happiness if you just gay and happy then jump in the air but other than that stop jumping for no reason and I think it's a girl thing you girls started making us dudes jump in the air and I don't know many guys who just want to be like they're on a snow yeah snowboarding yes jump baby john get some air but other than that I don't want to jump in my talks anyway I usually usually creates a laugh or two when I say that to the bridesmaids like we're not going to do anything like that we're gonna have fun and I want you to start thinking more like a fashion magazine and less like a wedding so if you've been in a wedding before we're not gonna pose in a pyramid do not pose that way I'm gonna yell it other than not think magazines magazines magazines and that just sets the temple right out of the gate like that a lot that's awesome awesome question from bob man are you leaving enough room for cropping or are you just shooting like you know you're going to use it I shoot the way I know I'm going to use it right that we all heard cropping camera get it the way you want it there are times though where I'm not quite sure but this comes down to experience I think because we've been shooting weddings for so long I know where I need to leave room and when I can get away with cropping and tighter but that comes back to again my system our system tight middle wide so you will see shots coming off even in this group of shots and I know they're not showing every single frame coming off the camera I'm shooting at seventy millimeters one hundred thirty five millimeters two hundred millimeters and what that's giving me is a variety of crops so that I have everything I could possibly need even if I shoot to time okay this question is from underland sounds and images when the second shooter is getting shots from almost the same angle is that a problem with model's eyes yes we've covered that so I think the company tuned out the only time we get close to sal is if I am right over his shoulder with a different lens different composition so that it looks like they're looking right at me because I'm right over his shoulder it is a problem so you've got to make sure you control your second shooter's if I'm directing a group and taylor's right here photographing the group is going to get very confused on who they should look at me or taylor so taylor is either in right next to me on my hip they're looking the same way or she is completely off at a completely different angle to avoid any confusion whatsoever so great question but you just gotta make sure you don't uh you gotta control your second shooter okay any strategies this is from terribly photo any strategies with photographing receiving lines after the ceremony yeah we so when the receiving line is gonna happen the primary shooter I won't go on dh shoot the receiving line I just let my secondary shooter go cover that usually the receiving line can either happened at the church they're doing an exit row exit right so the bridegroom are exiting each roll or they go to the end of the church and the doors open and the bridegroom are getting all this beautiful natural light on them as the guests are coming out of the church either way my second shooter's covering it and I would say I don't let them capture mohr than about twenty five frames off the exit because no one really uses those images I'm your great yes awesome question from rick starr won photography going back to the family formals can you explain your philosophy on starting with just a couple and building instead of the reverse yes that's a great that's a really good question so the reason I like building into because it truly is we're just building up if I put everybody out there at once and then I'm like okay you're gone it becomes you start hurting cats because everybody wants to start saying goodbye to each other okay I'll give you I'll see you at the reception and now everything really slows down and again I'm about speed and efficiency so I'd rather build the group's up have everyone paying attention because they never know when their name is gonna be called and then then let that whole side of the family go verse the building it and then start tearing away it tends to be a little bit more clumsy I've tried both and the way we do it is really really efficient seems like you've really thought this wedding photography thing three said you know we should want to weddings years way give it a little thought uh maybe just a couple more and then wait want bailey kor says our sorry do fashion tv from singapore would you suggest we shoot from a higher angle uh like top down on the families like from a balcony or higher floor or are we able to flash downwards do you ever do that shot yeah we don't do that shot I've seen it before where you get the entire group outside I don't want to say we don't do it if we've got every once in a while we'll have a client that wants everybody at the wedding in one giant photograph like where there's two or three hundred people well clearly there's not many altars in the world that are gonna fit three hundred people on it in not scenario yes we'll go outside that case I'd go outside I wouldn't do it inside uh but let's talk about their scenario I would go off up on the balcony for that kind of shot or up on a ladder for that kind of shot if you have it and you're still going to bounce that flash off the ceiling and it's gonna work well for you now because now instead of them looking straight at you they are tilted up a little bit so now that bounce is really going to fill their entire face with that but ideally what I would do is I take that group outside the church I'd price stand on higher level steps and then just get a giant shot using probably a twenty four by seventy lens not even sixteen thirty five