Lessons

Lesson Info

How Brides Find Photographers

all right so now I want to drill into and then I'm going to guys on the internet I'm gonna take some questions so start writing your questions in that chat room get ready they'll they'll grab him I'm going to go through the top five ways that we go after brides why because this is what they told us if you remember that infographic from the beginning of the day these are the top five ways they're finding us now bridal shows we're going to show you in depth tomorrow so actually tomorrow we will have our bridal show booth set up here right here so you're going to see exactly how we do it you're going to see us have the conversation how do we talk to the bride how do we close business at the bridal show how do we differentiate between the bride who's just kicking tires and walking by and the bride who's our bride and so we're going to cover all that tomorrow I think that's very powerful especially you start doing bridal shows you've got to know how to do but magazines referrals vendor rela...

tionships internet right those were the other way so we're going to cover these magazines it is about brand awareness that is why I'm in the magazine I want my bride to be hammered over the head with the salvator cincotti bride salvador some kind of logo she has to see it over and over and over again it establishes us as a legitimate studio not weekend warriors not right I'm just here part time doing this we've got to use that to our advantage more than not they're tied to bridal shows so most bridal shows or most magazines run a bridal show not all of them but a majority of them do so this becomes very important if you want primo placement remember we were talking over lunch how do I get into these bridal shows that are locked up here in the seattle area well are you doing anything in their magazine pride not well guess what what where you are you're doing stuff in their magazine and they're not letting you in the show we need to talk I'm gonna be your voice on this because if you're doing this stuff in their magazine and they're not making room for you at the show that's a problem okay and so for us this is huge because I'm in the magazine I get primo placement at their show we're dead center at the show in fact this this show coming up in january okay they are they have a lounge right they're calling it the bridal lounge and in the bridal lounge we convinced them to let us put up these acrylics because they're so unique all throughout the bridal lounge on easels so they're just gonna be sitting there on easels as dick or so in the bridal lounge is going be couches chairs everything well they don't want to have a just plain right pipe and drape hanging there so they're gonna be displaying these all around and guess what in the bottom corner south torsten kata salvador cincotti salvator sinkala so sure this costs me money to produce but the exposure for my business priceless all right every bride's gonna walk into that booth and see this stuff you got to make a statement if you're going to run a magazine ad here's what you cannot do I don't want to see a collage of images right on a quarter page ad don't do a quarter page ad if you're going to a quarter page ad don't bother save your money okay half page ad save your money you're wasting your money big big make a statement we go two pages okay so here's our recent ad I'll let you look at that for a second this is a two page odd things with the word stupid and it's awesome stupid yeah well so let me let me walk you through this left hand side one impact image so this impact image this is a real wedding for us we were out there her veil started blowing came and I mean that's like a once in a lifetime right where her veil shapes into a heart on dso we get an image like this I feel like this is a statement image for our studio guys this is very indicative of our studio in the type of work we produce I didn't clumsy this up with like pictures of shoes and bracelets and all that other madness do no one is booking for a wedding because you took an amazing picture of a parachute nobody cares right nobody's putting a thirty by forty campus on their wall of a parachute don't get me wrong I take those pictures but nobody unless you guys ever having a different experience and I am I don't think anybody's gonna be like oh my god shall you're the picture of those shoes just um amazing I need you to be my photographer right they want to take romantic architectural style images now this is my style of photography you don't have to like it but I'm true to my style I'm true to my brand this is the kind of client remember what I told you I'm good at attracting the right client the client looking for that pose I mean taylor showed you do just stand here with our arms around each other that traditional shot that clients not coming to me this is not appealing to him and vice versa right so these are the I want the right client coming to me the copy on the right real straightforward I took quote from my clients okay in the testimonials that they've sent tow us and I use them for my testimonials here amazing breathtaking unique one of a kind creative stylish award winning while ridiculous stupid mind blowing epic so I had a client tell me dude at every wedding you take one epic picture that defines that wedding he goes and we love our epic picture right so I started trying and I'm never forget I forgot where I was sews but she somebody's like I don't get it stupid like your pictures huh new york oh did somebody ask me yes somebody asked me that you're like what do you mean by stupid I'm like you know stupid is being good like you know I mean I got it right away and I went through all those words and I got it I was like it's just it's so amazing that it's ridiculous basically stupid amazing stupid ridiculous but that's your personality too this is near attracting the clients that you want by using words like that as well I'm not I'm not attractive you know there's gonna be clients who were like horrified by what they're reading here like stupid I don't get it right that good you're not my bride so stay away right and so this becomes very important but honestly give me some honest feedback is there any confusion about what kind of imagery I take it's pretty clear right is there any confusion here right I'm notice I'm not clumsy ing up this ad sometimes we can put too many images because we just want to appeal that everybody right well I want to put this image here and I'll do this one in black and white and then this one in color and in this one spot color uh no one image define your brand can you define your brand in one image if you can't you've got schizophrenia in your brand right and so I can I can to find my brand this is my brand I'm just is likely to go find an abandoned building on a wedding day then I am to take a picture in a park that's not that's not my style anybody can stand in front of a tree and take a picture right I want to do something it's a little bit more urban a little bit more gritty and that's what my clients have come to expect right does that make sense questions I think that I asked you about this photo in new york and you said that that you caught that heart in her veil yes you did not photoshopped that we did not photoshopped that the original picture looks identical to that we put in hdr edit on it and then I gave I gave this just a little bit more definition but that all happened naturally absolutely look hey I'd rather be lucky than good any day of the week honestly I mean I think that's for me personally this is probably the most important point that I would take away from this course just you saying over and over you are not trying to get everybody you're trying to get your client and your client is the kind of person that spends money on their photography yes that is that is huge man I think that's where a lot of photographers and studios flounder is they don't know who their client is and that comes back to the business plan who are you targeting right we can't I mean think about it what's crazy though is in every other business in the world right millions of dollars are spent on targeting who we're targeting this ad is polling well I think about the politics I mean come on tomorrow's election day right about how they're targeting ads this ad trans well with women in the twenty four to thirty twenty nine demographic this ad trans weld with teenagers why would we not run our business the same way I'm running ads that are trending well with my client base and this will evolve over time there's nothing wrong with that so no that's a good takeaway we can't be afraid to start really going after our client because the truth is as photographers unless you want to be a mass production right business model which is not what most photographers want were very much niche based boutique style in our nature right there's only so many photo shoots we can have per day per per year if you're going to do that you've got to be real selective on who you bring into your studio I'm choosing my clients as much as they're choosing me and it will say so I've heard so many photographers say the same thing word it very differently many different ways and this ad really says it to me because you are choosing the words that you want to choose your choosing the image that you like so it really stands out me a lot thank you yeah it's straight to the point you're either going you're going to look at that my clients were going look at that page and love what they're seeing or they're gonna look at me like who what's that and flip right and that's okay I'm not gonna be offended because you don't like my advertising quite questions online you girls questions we're doing good we have questions that I would've waken just go back to when you were talking about in the beginning of this section talking about press releases yes ok great so a question from val fuji bail future gabriel where does where do you put these press releases to get the pick up the blogger numerous people also have asked about how to release a press release yes so what we do there's actually I don't know the girl off the top of my head uh skip calling that was actually talked about it there's actually aside out there where you well maybe we'll try and find it for these guys but there's a site where you could send your press release and that might get you more national attention but if you're going locally where do you submit it every tv station every newspaper resource every local media outlet in your area and men I would expand that to a fifty or hundred mile radius because you never know who might be willing to pick up the story they might be running personal interest stories they might be running small business stories and something you're talking about triggers their next thing you know you're getting a call and you're being featured in the magazine so great great question just a quick follow up from cook cook esquire how do we make sure that news agencies will think that our activities they're newsworthy we don't know that's ok it's ok if they don't think you're your news where they just just keep doing it it needs to be come party or workflow something's going to be of interest to them while others won't and you never know who's going to pick up the story and that's okay because it's basically free so just get in the habit of doing this but most importantly why not release the press released your own website does not make sense so now your clients can see right on your website maybe there's something called in the news and then all your press releases look very official not like oh my god hi I'm suzy and today I was out photographing butterflies no that's not newsworthy right make sure it's newsworthy stuff that's written the right way and post that stuff out there that makes more sense question from k lena who says how much of your annual budget percentage would you recommend putting towards marketing s o the typical typical answer there is around ten to fifteen percent for marketing I do not spend anywhere near that so if we reverse out my numbers we weddings represent half a million dollar business for us we do not spend fifty to seventy five thousand dollars our marketing and advertising nowhere near that so the answer is unfortunately it depends ah front it's going to be harder for you because if you are a fifty thousand dollar a year studio are seventy five thousand dollars a year studio spending five thousand dollars on marketing and advertising ten thousand dollars I'm working advertising it's very expensive but if you are a two hundred thousand dollars your studio three hundred thousand dollars your studio spending ten thousand dollars is nothing and so I think what you have to do and this is a longer answer is invest time because time is probably when you're starting out what you have more most ofthe time okay invest time in those things that are big relatively free charities press releases block posting writing from magazines or riding for someone else's blawg establish yourself as an expert and then is your business starts growing redirect your energy okay and redirect some resource is for more than paid advertising so combination of both all good questions well again we could keep going all day but surely I know you had so much like you were doing good I feel good right now so definitely let's keep going referrals best source of new business and so what we have to understand is when we talk about referrals and you guys are all following right so we started off right we're talking about magazines we know that's a place we want to be way jump two referrals this is clearly the best source of new business we have to understand the brand and the experience because people are not going to refer you if you haven't given them a reason to referring right what what reason and we're going to start here but I'm not gonna start with you lisa all right way to start with you what is give me a reason you believe don't tell me what you think I want to hear and all of you out there follow along with us give me one reason you think somebody would refer you today because of my personality being able teo hold a conversation and I'm energetic and motivational during the day I'm that's the one thing that people would highlight when they talk about working with okay one thing I was gonna say the same thing because I have head brides referring because of you know easy going like darling said energetic and I'm you know willing tto run with some of their crazy ideas so okay overall experience the overall experience what does that mean to you the overall experience how you interact with them at the beginning just when meeting them you know to the engagement session having fun with them as far as you know getting to know them related yeah okay they really like that okay um I get referred because I can put together a theme for the wedding from the engagement to the wedding so so elaborate on that for me what does that mean put together a team I want to use their styles somewhat everything looks the same so when they pick like if they're having a starfish theme for the wedding then everything is kind of based on the album designed for the guest book is designed on star fishes and beach what what not and so I carry that theme all the way through the wedding so that it all looks seamless from the day to the engagements to save the dates to all of it and that's something they're touting about what you do yes I love it I love it I know I know you're just started e I go last and I can't copy it wear school teo um because I was going to say because people always say like all you guys were doing such a good job I feel like they don't even see the pictures but they appreciate the way that you're going through the day and what you're doing and they could just tell that you're in tune with the bride and you know what they want and you know they like how you interact with everyone not just the bride and groom right how you interact with family yeah what's interesting almost all of you have in one former fashion said the same thing your leading source of referrals comes down to the experience so what's the experience worth you can't be charging for a cd of images I don't know if all of you get this but all of you had basically said if I just pull it up to a higher level you're all saying the same thing the one thing that is your strength that is the reason people refer you is tied to the experience you give them and I get that man because I believe it wholeheartedly everything we do in our studio is tied to the experience if we don't give our clients experience they're not going to be willing to refers not to the level they do well if we understand it's about the experience what are we doing take it a step further we can't just go it's about the experience what really is the experience by the way so the experience to me starts the minute that first email comes in how long are you taking to respond to that email um what kind of products are you offering rite we talked about the value of being able to for a client to walk into someone else's home and see something like this we talked about the value of having something on the wall where clients can go I've never seen anything like that before that becomes quality products I think about it anybody can get a cheap canvas at sam's club it looks cheat it feels cheap right I don't want my clients to have that that experience right I've got it if I'm gonna charge money I've gotta offer hyeon products turnaround times is that part of the experience no b s here how long do you take to turn around images two weeks two weeks two weeks started to smell bad now everybody's two weeks three weeks or under under okay so apparently everybody turns your images around in two weeks so out there you can't lie to me because I can hear you but typically most photographers are notorious around turning around images that quickly and so we have got to do that because that is part of the experience in our studio are our images are shown in two weeks that is where we're at I'm not trying to do two weeks and under there's no value to me two weeks is where I'm targeting two to three weeks depending on their schedule my schedule but if I don't show them images in two to three weeks I'm losing the momentum it's all about momentum they're excited to see their image is they want to see him they want to do something for you wait longer life gets in the way okay and we can't have life get in the way and what do I mean by life gets in the way bills are due car needs new brakes right o this thing came up at the house are the new we need a new roof I can't have that stuff getting away I have to cash in on the mo mentum so turnaround times become part of the experience in fact I've had clients come shoot with me for a bridal session right after the wedding I didn't do their wedding they came to me for a bridal session because it's eight months after their wedding and they still don't have pictures truth true story that's horrible absolutely horrible and so we showed them their pictures from their bridal session before they ever gotten their actual wedding photography it's horrible that's a black eye on our industry that is really bad referral program we have a referral problem in our studio where we offer any referral a free sixteen by twenty four cam remember what we talked about cost of acquisition cost of acquisition right here what's a typical sixteen twenty four cameras cost about a hundred bucks no matter where you go no matter what lab it's about one hundred dollars I'm willing are you willing to spend one hundred dollars to get a brand new wedding some people say yes some people say no and the reason is because you don't know what your cost of acquisition is I know that it cost me on average more than one hundred dollars per new bride to get into my studio so the thought that I don't have to have a meeting I don't have to be right I don't have to go through a bridal show I don't have to do all this stuff to get a brand new client all I gotta do is him an existing bride a sixteen by twenty four campus that is brilliant to me I'm willing to do that all day long and a true story well last year we had one of our brides refer six weddings to us true story six weddings so I gave six six campuses away tell her I'll do that ivan I'm giving her a free photo session I'll give her whatever she wants right I don't have a lot of clients that will refer six weddings so that's not like every client does this but she was pregnant and she told me she's like dude I'm pregnant and I want canvass all over my home and so I was willing to give her whatever she wanted to give me those referrals now for the record a referral is a booking or furl isn't just somebody who comes in to meet with you so can I you're chomping at the bit we got questions I'm doing good on time so let's take a look all right so a question from jules gray is what about selling after the wedding when they just realized how much money they just spent on the wedding so jeff I'm not sure if that's her business partner thinks two week turnaround would hurt us because of that so what's the argument there jules and I know jules personally tell jeff to stop and listen to sound s o u what's gonna happen is after the wedding think about it everything had to be paid up until the wedding so by the time two weeks after the wedding comes therefore they've already paid more than likely the caterer had to be paid the planner had to be paid the photographer had to be paid everybody was paid a front so they do have money they have money from all the gifts they got from their friends and family yeah some are going to come in the form of toasters but some is going to come in the form of cash so they do have that money and when they come into our studio guess who we have come in with them mom and dad and so even though everybody's kind of tapped and budgets or top when dad comes in and sees all this amazing product tied to all these amazing images they're going to be willing to spend so you've got to try what I'm telling you and bring him in post wedding yeah do you print anything ahead of time and have it waiting for them when they come in so do you print an image from their wedding and expect them to possibly purchases during that fails so the way we do that is we will do what's called a spectrum and it's it's hidden it's if that will work so you've got a limit your cost so what I will do is print something on our paper and so you know peace our paper from almost any lab you're looking at maybe ten bucks okay for an eight by twelve so print on a piece of our paper right deck old edge maybe no deck allege and put it in a matty from like michael's or something like that the matting will cost you ten bucks the print will cost you ten bucks so worst case scenario you're exposure is twenty dollars now and if they don't buy it big deal rip out the print right print a new one for the next victim I call it and slap it in there and then we'll try again so there's limited exposure and the way I do that is I will print that speck print and have it sitting on an easel just like this and so when the client walks in okay they're seeing one of their wedding images printed on a piece of our paper and they're like oh my god and and then what I do is I use that as an upsell opportunity hey guys I know you love this print but if I can get you into one of these packages I'll give you that for free you can walk out of here with it tonight that's a really good question but you've gotta have the right client to do it now are you success obviously you're successful with the an in studio appointment I guess you want to call it with your wedding clients but I'm just curious on because you are going in other you know I don't know if it's all local people are you having people flying into where you are can you tell a little more about that that's a brilliant question by the way we do you know maybe twenty percent of our clients are destination clients meaning they're not from st louis maybe it was a new york wedding we photographed a chicago wedding we photograph they're not going to come into our studio and that's okay we you skype in that scenario and so we will jump on a skype call with our client and of course we've got to do an online web gallery and then on that skype call were walking him through all our packages and so what we're saying we'll do like okay now that package comes with a twenty by thirty okay hold on can you see that okay good yeah and then if I flip it to the side right and I'm showing them over skype the product as best I can as if they were right here in the studio with us so you've got a you've got to adapt because guess what today's bridegroom they're all over skype there all over I john and so we can't be afraid to use that as you got to know your bride five years ago you think I'd get the mother of a bride on some sort of video chat no way but today's bridegroom absolutely so you can still do what I'm teaching you to do you've just got to adopt don't you stole the pictures online you thought the pictures online they have no experience with you write all five of you told me about the experience is what you're all about and then you go through your pictures online now the expat experience socks doesn't that's not really an experience and so we got to get away from that questions from the internet okay back to referrals jan mitchum says how do you keep up with referrals and how do you let clients know that there's a reward for referring without being tacky about it yeah what you should do is after the wedding that's a good question by the way is produced a five by seven card for your referral program and say hey guys hope you had a great time in our studio and guess what that card you print that five by seven print which is all that is by the way the picture on there shouldn't be a picture of a generic bride it should be a picture of your bride the one you're handing it to you okay and say hey susie hope you had a great time we love referrals refer a friend and get a free sixteen by twenty four campus seven ninety five value five ninety five value whatever you're selling in for so now that referral to her that gift card is sitting there on her desk screaming at her right like a gift card because that is in essence what it is she knows that all she has to do is get somebody to redeem this and she gets one of these campuses that's how you do it that's a good question I don't think that's tacky how many cards do you usually supply there right I mean you know how much of five by seven print costs nothing so just are five in there but I don't even I don't even really talked about it I'll say something to the effect of hey guys you know we've got a referral program if you had a good experience with us we'd love for you to refer something friends and family think about today's bride how do they announce to the world that they're engaged facebook facebook way we all know it what do they do they take a picture of their ring with their phone posted to facebook and then the rest of the world ways in my god congratulations right all that other madness well my bride is going to see that well before I do I might not run into that potential bride until we get to ah bridal show or something like that well that point time she could've met with four other photographers but my old bride the one who had a great experience with us as soon as that picture gets posted to facebook with a ring she's gonna go on and be like oh my god congratulations you to make sure you book sally books up really early tell my century right whatever she writes on that facebook post she becomes my grassroots marketing she becomes my ambassador for the studio priceless absolutely priceless one more question from the internet all right one more question from the internet and this goes to the back to the turnaround time because it's ah something everyone struggles with art I says local photographers recently scolded us for a quick turnaround saying it makes them look bad should we should we take that to heart uh no you should not take it too hard you should take it as a fact that you're doing something right do not listen to the old grumpy's man I'm glad you're making them look bad because that allows you to charge more money for your services so kudos to you for turning it around quickly I think I would laugh it somebody if they said that to me dude you're making us look bad yeah well screw you man I'm tryingto I'm trying to make you look bad I mean what the hell I'll never get true story first bridal show taylor and I ever did I had a photographer local photographer come up to me and we were new you know so we didn't know what to expect we didn't realize how cati our industry can be at times and so I'm used to corporate you know incorporate it's not uncommon you know you just you complain about your boss and you hang out at the water cooler but you have this common threat well I thought his photographers we all this common threat we're photographers no that's not true right we're all it always competing with each other even though there's a million weddings out there so we do this first bridal show and his photographer comes up to me is like how you doing yeah I'm joe uh he's like uh isis shoot like that like shoot like what all these crazy angles you're shooting laying on the ground doing all this thing you'll see st louis doesn't like that kind of stuff they're real traditional here he goes you'll find that out soon enough I went back to my booth I was like taylor I don't think we're going to do well here we should probably move right in like we should probably go back tio uh new york or something like that we're gonna we're gonna felt right and remember this is my first problem so that when I was already anxious about being a well obviously nothing could've been further from the truth we booked fifteen weddings at that show so it turns out no st louis does want something more modern something more edgy this guy today that I told you about he's out of business he didn't make that turn okay and so don't listen to those other photographers who were telling you you're doing anything wrong you're on the right path all right let's keep going let's talk about vendor referrals what leads to a vendor referral and I hope we all understand what a vendor referral is a vendor referral er those hotels the wedding planners the florist the djs these air your vendors these air your partner's these air your connections into your own local market are you even connected with these people and so first of all tell about relationships you know I take my vendors out to lunch coffee once or twice a year just get together how's it going we'll stop by the catering halls that were part of we'll grab breakfast they're some of the hotels that we're on their preferred vendor list we'll just go there grab breakfast chitchat small chitchat how's your wedding season going anything we can do to help with you you need any extra pictures right we're developing relationships think about this all of you are you guys struggling to get in on any particular venue venue or you in every venue you want to be in no right all of us want to get into a certain venue how are you going to get in there are you just calling them and asking you to put asking them to put you in the on their preferred vendor that they're not going to do it you know many photographers they're calling them they might not even return your phone call because every photographer in the world wants to be on their preferred vendor list so I'm gonna tell you a true story in st louis one of the preferred vent one of the venues is the coronado ballroom probably one of the most beautiful venues in st louis first two years of our career they won't even return our phone calls then return our phone calls and so what we did was we kept calling kept calling kept emailing kept calling couldn't get a return frickin phone call was like we didn't exist well one day I got an opportunity to photograph a wedding there bride booked me okay and the wedding was there so here's what I did here's what all of you can do this is a marketing tip wanna one pay attention we get that we'd shoot that wedding one week after the wedding two weeks after the wedding I walk away and print on image from their ballroom no brian groom I kicked everybody out it was before cocktail hour was over and let me give you a perspective about this this ballroom wedding start at like thirty thousand dollars I'm not even sure you get tables and chairs for the thirty thousand dollars right that za high end venue and so I kick everybody out take this empty picture of the ballroom I take this creative picture of the bride and groom in there for you a righteous beautiful ornate buildings built in like the eighteen hundreds whenever it is you got this ornate ceiling I then show up two weeks later and deliver these prints for free mounted on styrene wrapped like a present hey guys south and kata you probably don't remember me I photographed the right jones wedding two weeks ago I just want to drop these office is a gift opening up oh my god are these of our venue yeah yeah what I like to do for my preferred vendors is anytime I photograph of wedding at your venue I'll deliver these for free for you two years couldn't get on their list within forty eight hours we were on their preferred vendor list okay that's how you do it what that cost me forty bucks maybe I do have a question cause I had a vendor reach out to me and it is a venue that I would like to be on their preferred list and she actually reached out to me because I shot um two weddings within two weeks of each other and she reached out to me for prints so I'd be curious to see what you would think I don't want what's that deliver deliver him like in a big a big print gives her the experience you were telling me about here right so deliver them is a big print don't charge her anything for it wrap them up show up with them hand them to her thank her so much for the opportunity your logo better be in the bottom right hand corner level in the global better be there okay leave your business card let me know if you have any questions read her if she wants to talk to you stay in chat if she doesn't want to talk to you leave right you know what I'm talking about right we all have those moments where there's just like this kind of like no just leave walk away right it's okay we don't have don't make small stupid chitchat right know when it's time to just walk away and then you'll be surprised man she'll open those up show look at those and she will always remember that you're you've been responsive don't deliver the prints and say I'm only going to deliver these if you put me on your list that's blackmail that's not gonna work you're gonna irritate her on that right so be willing to just drop him off walk away and then maybe reach out to her like three weeks later hey just wanted to see those prints if everybody's enjoying them is there anything else I can do for you you know what I like to do for my preferred vendors is any time you have the room decorated in a unique way just give me a call if I'm free I'll swing by photographed a venue for free for you and deliver prints you will absolutely we did that for years we still do it to this day we will get calls from venues and say man we got this amazing theme in our room can you show up and just take pictures for me and we'll do it absolutely free is that make sense all right add them to your vendor kit guys it's not just about and I'm gonna ask this taylor if somebody can see if you can get ahold of taylor I thought we had a vendor kit our package so if she can bring that out I'd love to show everybody that um add them to your vendor kid and you may not know what I'm talking about with a vendor kid here's the thing who were the first three to be booked ceremony rites of the church the reception the photographer why are we so worried about being on everybody else's preferred vendor list okay when we should have people wanting to be on our preferred render list and that's exactly how we run it we have our own preferred vendor list so I've got a uh a band a deejay planner everything for my brides that when we deliver their contract were also delivering all these preferred vendors how about this how about offering your vendors a free family session what's it going to cost you let's think about this once you get on that preferred vendor list do you think that's the dual lindell when you want preferred vendor list you know you're on that list with like five to ten other photographers right so now what happens they slide that peace the bride comes into the venue and says what photographers would you recommend and the slide over the sheet of paper with ten photographers do you think the bride calls down ten photographers no that's not how it works you know what the bride says next which one would you refer so is that is that then you going to say you my venue venues are you know why because I do free family sessions for him I do free senior sessions for him so in their office the same office that the bride is meeting with them at our picked senior pictures that I've taken family pictures that I've taken so now they slide this picture over to the bride the bride says who would you recommend the the catering manager says something to the effect of well they're all good photographers but when we had our family pictures done as you can see sounds and one who took him so he's who I would go to now she's giving me a personal endorsement do you see the power of that all right so internet brides are telling us that they're looking here seventy nine percent of brides are telling us they're looking to the internet for their photographer I am not going to argue with him I'm just gonna be where they're telling me they're going I can't resist it anymore when was the last time you updated your website okay this is and I'm not looking for an answer and even out there in the world of the internet don't lie don't bother if I go to your website though when I see right that the last time you updated your website was in may that's horrible man it is absolutely horrible you are telling your clients hey don't book me I'm not busy I'm not even that good it's the wrong message and I'm referring mostly to your block because your boss is the only thing that really has the date on it okay your portfolio if you use in any kind of plug in or things like that or a slideshow built in your side there's no date on that so no one would know but on your block if I go to your block and I see the last time was updated was in may that's insanity man right you've got to stay busy I don't care if you're doing free photo shoots whatever you've got to do to stay busy and staying busy my definition is staying busy is not being on your block writing all sorts of nonsense about what kind of food you like what kind of toast you're like what kind of your favorite shoes are no one freaking cares man ok get it through your head no one cares theirs maybe two photographers in the world that could get away with buzzing about just social media randomness so here's my philosophy on this souza lavon auntie here's my philosophy on this think about this this is back to consumer behavior you might be thinking I'm being harsh I'm not looking to be harsh new ditches truth is real talk so we'll talk sucks sometimes but the reality is when a couple klein is booking you when you does everybody here drink starbucks for the most part coffee you drink any coffee you like no no coffee you drink something though right okay whatever you drink if it's starbucks or something like that or product you wanted a prada bag right whatever it is totally random when when you're making that purchase when you're about to make that purchase do you go to the block of starbucks you know I wonder what the ceo of starbucks is doing this morning before I buy a cup of coffee no you don't care what the ceo did it starbucks you don't care if he chases butterflies and unicorns through an open field you know what you care about you care about making my damn coffee right get it right make it right to your job and I'll be happy well guess what I make the argument that my client's okay when they book me our booking me for great images they don't care about my personal politics my religious beliefs right or my outlook on the world yes we'll get to that my personality definitely has a part comes into play when they're booking me but as a whole when they go to your website show me your imagery that's why I'm coming to your website for does that make sense okay so go out there man do pro bono shoots I mean that's what I'm doing look I'm getting into the glamour business okay in my local market gets what all those photo shoots I'm doing all right I've got next week I want to say I've got six to eight photo shoots lined up all of them are free they're all free now at this point in my career I don't need to do free shoots I could I could arguably charge from but I'm building my portfolio I don't want glamour people that come to my website hey book us and I got one photo shoot up there right so you've got to be making built willing to be make this investment this is your storefront this is your first interaction with your company let's again back to consumer behavior if you are on an airplane you open up a magazine and you see something you like what's your first step do you go by where do you go nobody buys anything out of a magazine where do you go online right you go to the website and depending on what you see on that website that will determine whether you pull the trigger and purchase it so the order while it may have originated from a tv ad from a magazine ad from even a referral right even if you had a girlfriend was like oh my god you got to get these cool new shoes you would you just go by the shoes you'd go to the website and if the website socked you more than likely wouldn't place the order had always sometimes you might but more than likely you wouldn't because you look at that website you go this doesn't look like a legit business so how important is your website you've got to make that investment and get it right how many clicks do your portfolio this is another place I see photographer struggle I've got to go bury like in menu items all over the place click up click down go left go right to get to your portfolio you go to my website sallis and co dot com one click you're at my portfolio that's how it should be why because that's how that's how I'm booking you I'm booking you want getting you to my portfolio and seeing my work what am I showing in the portfolio show what you want to sell so my imagery is very much dramatic style imagery very big imagery very architecturally based right by clip my client is going to be small in the frame and then you're gonna have this architectural elements do I take the tight shots of course so I take the ring and the shoes and all the photo journalistic shots of course I do but that's not the kind of client that's drawn into my studio the kind of client that's drawn into my studio is one that's looking for more of a dream like image right where they are part of an overall seen not just cheese in for the camera that's not my client and so I don't even attract them that's why don't show that they're pricing online yes or no yes or no with a password separate with a password starting starting no no okay here's the answer pricing is never online never that is bad bad bad bad why because we're encouraging bad behavior you are encouraging clients to pry shop look sal is got eight hours of coverage he's got a wedding album and oh he he's wildly seven thousand dollars over look over here susie she'll work all day all day coverage I don't even know what the hell that means you guys are crazy with the all day coverage what does that mean you started six a m and you go to like the midnight I don't want to work that much for five hundred bucks so susie's got all day coverage she's got an album but but look she's four hundred ninety nine dollars I will lose that battle all day long because ultimately I can't compete on price I'm competing on experience something all five of you told me you're doing but then there are people who they're still while price that might not be the most important thing they still want to know what range it is in crisis starting at okay so that's what I'm saying is rather than having any pricing would you at least have a starting I would absolutely have prices starting prices starting out he's totally fine okay that makes total sense because now you're pre qualifying but tohave I've gone to photographers websites and I see an eight by ten is thirty dollars or any by ten is five dollars what why are you putting eight by ten prices on your website who cares I don't want my clients thinking about eight by tens don't even want to sell me by tens I want to sell artwork to them so allah car prices they're not on the website at all right prices starting on five prices starting at forty nine ninety nine and you have a two thousand dollar budget why are you even calling me it's that simple so prices starting out is perfect does that make sense email policy are you sending your pricing okay in email how long does how long do you take to respond what does your email say when you respond this comes that backto our client communications this is something we have figured out over the over the long term right so think about this I get the same e mails you do by the way I'm getting married june fifteenth police send prices in packaging you guys get those emails I gave him all the time right there the drive but I call it the drive bys right there just stopping by my side dropping this email looking for me to send them my pricing and then they want to compare packages guys how would I describe this in a bulleted list how would I describe this I can't I need my bride as you'll see I think it's wednesday where we do the initial consultation oh no tomorrow I think it is we do the initial consultation I'm going to put this in my couples hands I want them to see touch feel this because then when they go look at some of those other lame albums from other photographers they're going to remember this but I could never describe this in a bulleted list so I've got to get them there so the goal is to get to the meeting because that's where you're going to sell your personalities all of you if you believe your personality is part of your sales stick then you've got to get to the meeting because your personality never come across an email so what does my email look like first of all giant pet peeve red alert if your email is an auto responder stop it stop it immediately and what is an auto responder I send you an e mail and I get something back that says hi thanks we're out of the office right now but we'll check your e mail soon you're important to a lot that is stupid and it's not how businesses should be run that is very impersonal by the way and it's a true story I got this email once I'm not going to name names I sent an email out and I get an email back and I sent the e mail at like two o'clock in the morning email came back auto responders said hi thanks for reaching out to our studio we're out photographing all our great clients right now it's two a m you're not photographing anybody right now okay we're photographing all our great clients right now we check emails on monday between four p m and seven pm and on thursday between seven p m and what you know what message you are sending to your client's hey you're not important to me but just leave a message we'll get back to you whenever we think we have some free time turn that crap off no auto responders instead what I'd rather see you do is have a personal commitment to responding to email in twelve hours a lesson that's what I'd rather see you do that what's wrong with that so just turn off the auto responder and respond with something more personal to your clients again back to a true story the only way I know how to teach last year we booked a wedding over skype bride reaches out to me it was probably about eleven thirty midnight and she was reaching out from the east coast she said I'm coming in from d c I'm meeting I'm scheduling a meeting with about four five photographers I'd like to see if you're available for a meeting on whatever the date was right friday the fifteenth I said well I get to see male back and I'm chomping at the bit choose to respond right I had to wait I'd wait at least fifteen minutes I don't want to seem like an auto responders so now it's like midnight I finally write back to her she writes him right back to me and she says oh my god thank you for responding so quickly and here's one my email said by the way thanks for reaching out to our studio our prices start at forty nine ninety nine and go up from there are packages are all inclusive they include an album and engagement session plenty of time on your wedding day and a host of other options if we're within your budget what I'd love to do is set up a meeting where I can walk you through our packages we find that sending you will bulleted list of products tends to create more questions than answers that's a good email okay now I'm paraphrasing of course now she writes back and she's like oh my god yeah we'd love to meet with you I'm gonna be in here I write back to her I say you know what I said you probably have a ton of meetings you're gonna have that day I said why don't we just talk over skype tomorrow see how I was being crafty here I wanted to meet with her before the other photographers ever could she's like well I've never used skype before I said don't worry about it I'll help you install it so the next morning I call her up I walk her through and schooling skype and stolen skype on her machine okay I make the argument by the way she booked me on that sky pole she booked me right on the call and I make the argument that I probably booked her before other photographers even responded to her house after an experience that wedding was a thirty thousand dollar wedding far studio biggest wedding in the history of our company it was an indian wedding I don't know if you guys have ever photographed on indian wedding okay but there I'm not sure I want to do many other indian weddings but was very profitable but it's very time intensive right it's ten ten fourteen hours a day of photographing but probably one of our best clients ever not only clients from like a financial perspective they've become friends with us because we were so injected into their family what about the experience you see where that experience comes into play if I just sent her a priceless through email I probably never booked her got to get to the meeting how we doing give me couple questions I'm doing good right on time yeah I'm doing good on time he's gonna come for you to start okay big question from lp should we pre qualify the client by asking what is their photo budget I think that's really really bad I think you send the wrong message when you start asking those kinds of questions like what is your budget because I will tell you from experience ninety percent of the time whatever my client tells me their budget is at least in the beginning compared to what they spend with us polar opposites so they think they have a certain budget but then when they see images with their uh face on it right there they're images they actually are willing to spend a lot more so don't ask the question if what your budget is it starts sounding to sales e and I don't want us to sound sales e I want to be the trusted advisor with my client and so I never asked that question instead I let that prices starting out be the pre qualifier much easier much softer great question from lawrence c is you talk about getting the right clients do you take that to the point of turning away clients if you feel that they want something more mainstream than what you do um yeah how do I answer this okay so there's a story I tell and att the risk for people have heard this story before I will tell it again so I don't know if you've heard my crazy bride story but this is an honest to god truth story if you two ever heard this story yeah I think so so first and foremost let me answer your question really quickly get rid of the crazy brides in your life say goodbye turning away I'm interviewing my bride's as much as they're interviewing me but here is a true story and I'll give you the down and dirty version of it tell renard a bridal show very high in bridal show and we hear this bride next to us okay just bitchin up a storm about her fiance and this is I'm pretty much quoting oh he knows better than to say no to me if he says no to me I'm gonna make his life absolutely miserable she's talking to her girlfriend in the booth next to us so now she comes to our booth uh to get fliers from us right and so she gets our booth and me a tailor like wei don't want to make eye contact with the right so we hander our pricing and were just like yeah move along right go well we get booked over the phone every now and then from out of town clients they'll just book us over the phone list was a chicago wedding and she booked this over the phone right and we go to chicago we show up it's his penthouse overlooking the leg means probably like a seven to ten million dollars apartment who opens the door crazy opens the door right so she opens the door and me and taylor if you work with your spouse you know you don't have to say anything your spouse you just look at them they look at you and you know everything has been said so we let we walk into the house and she's like my makeup looks like complete crap doesn't it sound like well you know honestly I just met you I said I don't really know you know what do you have a picture or maybe we should ask your fiance my hair looks like crap to her fiance now comes around the corner she's twenty five years old her fiance no exaggeration sixty five years old okay yes all your expressions just said it all everything you think about her at this moment is one hundred percent true okay so now we go and she wants to take a picture with her cat and so what we do is we take we go out on her balcony and we take she's like where's kitty and somebody shuffles in kitty kitty comes in and it can't be a normal cat it's a cat shave like a line okay so now she's got kitty and we take this one picture with kitty and she's like no kid he doesn't want to be here and kid throws get kitty just leaves kid he was the smartest person in the room that kid he's gone we take now the picture without kenny we'll tell her and I got were now packing up and we want to go do some pictures around chicago and taylor and I we go down to the car and this is a true story man taylor I'm like I'm sitting in the car I'm going what would happen if we just left right now right and taylor's towers like you can't leave I'm like damn if we can't I'm like I can leave and she's like you can't do what you can do it and as soon as we like we're going back and forth back and forth she shows up right next to us in her car yeah okay so now we go and we do their engagement session it was miserable it was miserable for us it was miserable for them creatively we were on different sides of the spectrum we get done with that shoot we're driving home to st louis from chicago I'm like there's no way I'm photographing this wedding and so we get home and of course like any good husband I'm a tailor do the dirty work she calls the bride and she tells the bride taylor would have a much better chance of delivering a message to me tower calls the branches like cloak that can have gone the way you'd hoped it would it didn't really go that well for us either and we want to have a good experience so we gave her all her image is on our cd fully edited fully process here you go we gave her a full refund on her wedding package or everything goodbye just going right so sometimes that's the long answer but you have got to run from crazy I ran like a little girl I ran so you got just gotta let it go one more okay uh jill adams said south can you please talk about pro bono work it's a free session but what about delivery bols do they pay for these or what do you give away after the shoot that's a loaded question so when I'm talking about doing some pro bono work like for example the glamour stuff that we're doing that's probably good at camp what I promised my clients is a free session of free experience and one eleven by fourteen print and the reason I picked that size is because it's big enough that they feel like they're getting something but it's small enough that I still have room to sell them larger portrait an album and things like that so even when I'm doing pro bono I still want to try and make some money often but I'm ok if I don't write because I'm doing to build my portfolio so what you don't want to do is when you do pro bono work is just be like hey I'm gonna shoot all day and I'm gonna give you a cd of images you're going it's not worth it so don't go that route yeah I do have a question about when you do get that email from your bride saying hand getting married on this day when she said in wedding packages that sort of thing I am picking up the phone and calling pretty much within you know like what you're talking about a quick amount of time I'll get their voice mail I leave a voicemail you know saying hey I got your e mail I'd like to talk to you um give me a phone call here's my phone number you know blah blah blah blah blah I will follow up with an e mail just in case you know you don't get this voicemail or what not like I'm just tryingto I'm trying to lead the voice mail and then I send a follow up email saying hey I left you a voicemail blah blah blah blah blah fill in the blanks but I'm struggling in the idea that I'm making that phone call I am following up with an email I'm giving them two forms of ways to get back in contact with me I've explained to them in the e mail I would really like to set up in person consultation so that we can kind of go over some things I can show you products I can answer questions because going back and forth and email could get you know overwhelming but I'm not I'll send them an e mail but I understand I totally hear what you're saying on the no pricing because I am sending them the link in the email your to serve too assertive way too assertive dialect no ideo yeah just send that email get to the meeting the media is your strength right do I include my the link because I have my link to a website that's password protected I'm sending that to them you might as well just send them the email the pricing in email you're in essence doing the same things that don't do that no don't do that because your adjustment all you're doing is making it actually more complicated you're giving them the pricing you just forcing them the log into something why I don't understand the benefit there don't call them stop calling them right you run the risk of being like a creeper we don't want you to be a creeper if you were a guy who would be the creeper eh so I don't want you to be that person instead what I want you to do is just send that email and let me give you some perspective every ten emails I respond to maybe I get one response okay I mean cause I hear nothing back all right loco email I hear nothing and I'm like you know why because they're looking at your prices they're never getting to the meeting with you so all I'm doing is just kind of one pre qualifier I'm saying pricing starting at and if you if you're willing if that's within your budget now you get to a meeting with me that's where I shine so we've got to switch that for you because not want creeper yeah you respond to the the way darlings talking about saying you know I'd like to meet with you I'd like to learn more about you and think discussing this in person would be best and then you just don't hear back from them do you follow up once or twice more because you know people are busy and yeah so listen let me let me get this right I've never met you before and you're leaving me a voice mail telling me you want to get to know me usually I start out with an email if I don't hear from them than I would call and say I want to make sure you got my email but I want to get together and get to know you I just I like to get to know my bride to make sure that we're a good match and fighting the weirdness on all that right now because I'm barely going there's nothing wrong with being outgoing right so I don't want to break your spirit I don't want you to not do these things but we need to like just kind of reshape it refocuses you think you've got to think about this we don't know each other that's the sad honest truth right as your bride potential bride we don't know each other we've never met before and so here you are whether it's through a phone call or e mail as your sales person at this moment in time do you agree with them okay so here we are you're getting a sales call it's like when you get those phone calls right and I know when they're coming in because they can't pronounce my name right I'm calling for a salvator ray king cock it yeah that's me uh and so I know what I'm getting those phone calls there's no connection there you've got to save that personal aspect of what you're trying to do till you get to the meeting so you but how do you get them to the meeting if why do you think they're not coming to the meeting well sometimes I get a response and sometimes they don't but when you don't why do you think you're not I don't know what enough they're busy maybe that maybe you think I am being too forward I'm not sure so I would make it if you're sending prices starting up you're out of their budget sometimes I'm not even sending it I'm just saying I'd like to meet with you in person and can answer your questions right they're not interested in meeting in person right not your bride if my ride's not interested in meeting with me face to face you are not my bride it's that simple if you're just looking for a dude with a camera a chick with the camera right there's a million of them out there but if you're looking for someone who's going to become part of your group part of your family part of the event I'm your guy you see what I'm saying yeah I don't want to inject myself into an event that I'm not wanted and that's what you have to start on understanding right so don't take it personal as rich ivers we're all guilty of that by the way like they don't like me it's not personal it's business let it go I don't care you don't like me there's somebody else who doesn't like me right and so you've got to find those clients who were looking for you know fatherhood calls none of this stuff they're telling you by ignoring you they're not interested take it and move on there's gonna be ten other clients worth investing your energy and all right you think I was too harsh on you didn't know okay speaking truth here bridal sites snap not dot com wedding wire the not these air all websites that brides air looking for photographers all of these sites offer something different in every city has a different site that's a leader some cities wedding wires the best resource for brides some cities that knot is some cities it's not not is so check out each of them in your local areas to see which one works for you but here's one thing we do know seventy percent of brides whatever that number was are looking at these broader website we've got to have a presence there some former fashion we've gotta have a presence there some things they consider of course cost right we don't want to spend I mean sites like the knot can be extremely expensive right with very limited reach in some cities how many leads are you generating see I'm willing to try anything once by the way will try anything once if it doesn't work don't do it again but I'm not willing to write off because the photographer told me it doesn't work right I'm not willing to write it off to some random guy told me it doesn't work I'm gonna try it myself because maybe my approach is gonna be a little bit different I've got to trust my business skills what's my conversion rate right so for every request that comes in how many meetings am I getting too right so for every ten requests that come jane because I can tell you a conversion rate we have when I get to the meeting ninety five percent I will book when I get to the meeting that's how that's how strongly I feel about getting to that meeting if you don't get there it's very difficult to book that wedding and that's how I know my personality is a big seller my products are a big seller because that's when I'm getting them to see touch feel everything remember we talked about this cost of acquisition how much is it costing you to get a new client products we have to offer high and product I am going to pause here I want to go back to the bridal sites what is your exposed where you guys today are you in brought any bridal sites and I hope everybody understands we are building your marketing plan right now I'm this is what we've been going over so when we talk about your business plan this is I'm putting seeds in your head on where you're going to be advertising to get to those brides so where any of you want bridal sites today yes yes yes yes yes good exposure bad exposure you don't know I don't know why we got to start measuring that you've gotta have a little excel spreadsheet that you're keeping track of how many leads came in from x y z because what if you find out that you're spending two thousand dollars a year to be I'ma pick on the knot for it doesn't matter I could care less which one but what do we find out that you're spending two thousand dollars a year to be on the knot and you book zero weddings would you do it again no but if you don't know what's working what's not working you have no way to even say hey I'm not gonna do this again what if you found out that you've been advertising for two thousand dollars a year and you've booked for weddings off there would you do it again I would say yes you vote for weddings I think that successful off there so these are the things you've got to start doing so just keep a little excel spreadsheet keeping track of all your marketing efforts and measuring where your leads are coming from and this becomes a living document right so every year we do a bridal show one works one doesn't work and other one works another one doesn't work I might give a bridal show two chances and if it doesn't work after two chances I gotta move on but we do five to seven bridal shows here we'll talk more about those tomorrow so products right we've gotta offer high end products this is how we differentiate ourselves from the competition bar none this is the number one way we differentiate ourselves remember you my average the average client has no concept in the world ok about what composition is about lighting ratios about butterfly lighting okay about broad lighting they don't understand any of that stuff and in the world we live in today where everyone is a photographer okay the the definition of a photographer's just become completely polluted okay so I'm not going to sit here and try and convince my bride's this is a good photograph this is a bad photograph because I'm never gonna win that battle by the way that's like me trying to convince you the difference between a good para shoes and a bad parachute it's different to everyone everyone has a different definition and so I'm not gonna have that argument here's what I do know my products are very easy for me to put a good album in front of him in a bad album in front of them to show them what right crushed velvet liner looks like what thick pages look like these air all measurable they can see touch feel these things if I don't have these high end products I can't justify charging more money nor can you all right you guys are in all of you were in that fifteen hundred three thousand dollars range how do we get you up to a five thousand dollar wedding it is not gonna happen doing what you're doing today we've got to switch you right you start putting something like this out we have this at the bridal show and we have multiple variations of this kind of album right this eight by twenty album we have someone in acrylic cover different leathers but the point is it's unique that's the key we're putting something unique out there that our clients are looking at going I've never seen anything like that canvas frame campus so this is you know you guys saw something like this today you throw something like this in front of clients a framed acrylic that they can now see touch feel hold the weight on this thing is amazing it screams quality framed campus right so the same concept except put a canvas in here screams quality they're not seeing stuff like that because maybe it's a little bit more expensive for you spend the money and you're going to attract those clients because now you stand out from the crowd that's important what are you doing to stand out from the crowd because I asked all of you what's the one thing they would refer from you and you say all of you said experience is that it it's just your experience you don't have high end products how are we gonna charge five thousand dollars for a wedding without high end product it's not gonna happen uh acrylics framed acrylics metal prince that's also popular okay mounted prints so when we hand our prince over there mounted on styrene we don't just deliver flimsy prince to our clients we give them two amongst irene save the dates and thank you cards we have customs save the dates and thank you cards that we produce for clients at cost we don't make money on our save the dates and thank you cards way don't need to you know why because it's free advertising we don't talk about that is a marketing strategy but thank you cards and save the dates are free marketing for you on the back is your logo that's where you're doing your marketing and advertising so virtuoso we talked about this a little bit before these are our new product so we save the announcement to the show but we've been announcing it kind of all morning but all these products I've been showing you products like this dude look at this this is an eight by six eight by twelve rather acrylic block inch and a quarter thick right do check that out get the vibrancy in that you put those products that's out of virtuoso it's very heavy right but that's what I'm putting on coffee tables now that's more that's going to replace the frames print for a more modern client