Lessons

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At the Wedding Venue, Q&A

is there any type of paid advertising recommend when you're exhausted you're so exhausted your social networking opportunities um traditional forms of advertising in regards to paying I don't know I can't say if it's right or wrong I've just never paid for advertising so of course that very typical forms of advertising our magazine advertisements bridal shows and online um advertisements part of the reason why I stayed away from some of those things is because I just feel like it doesn't play to my advantage so traditional forms about raising a magazine advertisement well I would only want to advertise in magazines that I get particular bridal inspiration from one of them being or two of them let's just talk about martha stewart weddings and inside weddings both of them are nationally syndicated magazine and a national ad in one of their magazines runs around nine thousand dollars give or take five hundred or thousand dollars and that's just for a one time at a one page one time ad and...

I in the beginning I didn't have nine thousand dollars and I might have nine thousand dollars now but I would prefer tio I don't know buy a new camera and a lens without money or I don't know reinvest it for personal things save it for a future home I have no idea but I just think that I could find a lot better ways to spend nine thousand dollars in fact I believe and I've said this before that if you have nine thousand dollars and you're considering spending it on a national ad why don't you get nine thousand dollars and donated teo thirst relief or another charitable organization and in your name say hey I'm doing this is part of my company is part of my organisation blogged about that and you never know what will come out of it it's more like instead of you know always looking at find ways to help yourselves what can you help other people and that could also be the best former marketing good karma to um another form of marketing or bridal shows um I didn't do bridal shows and not sing that viruses are bad I know that some people can rock out bridal shows for me I just didn't find that they were a good fit because at least in my neck of the woods when brides are going to bridal shows they're looking for a photographer just fine but I never wanted to be just a photographer who fit into a girl's budget I wanted them teo look for jasmine star is your photographer and um a lot of times bar which was that I would want to be a part of work four five thousand to get booth and then I would have to decorate the booth and I'm not one to bring out just of a table and a and a tablecloth and put out some albums I would decorate it so that it was reflective of my brand which would then in turn turn into at least a thousand dollars for decorations and getting a nice flat screen and getting sample albums because you need more than one if you have bride's coming to you so I would have that and then I would probably want a sofa for people to say if they wanted to or chairs and so am I gonna rent that I'm gonna buy that you probably want bottles of water and I just wouldn't want I would want labels with my logo on them I mean everything across the board and it's a lot of money and in order for me to actually recoup the cost I would probably have the book two weddings out of all the people that he met with and functioning assumption I don't know if those two brides would be the type of rides that I wanted to work with anyway because they believe that the larger your funnel is yes you will attract more but you're also kind of have the more propensity to get a bridezilla and I don't need that with my life I just want people who I just want to hang out with and the bigger your funnel the more defense do you have to catch somebody probably might not be a good fit for you another form of advertising would be online advertising I was approached when I first started okay so I'm I'm so nervous right now what is wrong with me I just have to think that and that is not there that's why I have to be because yesterday I just said I'm focusing on the five that's what I'm focusing on because I think what the internet it just makes me so ill okay so that's five just bring it back who will look at my hands okay so um I'm just talking right I'm just talking so fast okay okay that's right I don't have passed you listen slow okay so the last form of traditional advertising would be online so when I first started um I wanted people to talk about me on forums and nobody did in fact I will never forget this one time where somebody had said wrote on a very popular wedding for him said in southern california and it said does anybody know who just started and I found it through like a web notification that whenever somebody mentions my name I'll get a notification saying that somebody's having conversation about your name so I went to this farm and I was like oh my god somebody wrote about me and so I'm waiting like throughout the day I'm going from my cubicle like refreshing the page nobody says anything about me and I'm like that's sad and I was like tomorrow somebody will say something and I wake up the next morning and check again and nothing and then like three four days later I'm like actually go back and check that link because maybe somebody had something to say about me and I went back and there was a second post in answering her first post I was so excited and I read it I don't know jasmine stories but here is linked to my wedding for tiger she's great so like nobody was talking about me nobody knew my name and so of course when this forum asked me would you like to advertise I thought about it for a second like sure I want people to know who I am but when I got the schematics and when I got there press kit it roughly worked out to a three by three square from the side margin of their forum it was five hundred and fifty dollars a month and I just think five hundred fifty dollars a month is a lot because what that works out to be for the year is um I don't know like eight it's eighty five hundred dollars that's a lot of money for me to spend and again it goes back to the big funnel idea if I have a bigger funnel there's higher prevents me for hire propensity for me to track somebody I might not be able to work with furthermore what is going to attract that person in such um in such a huge volume to click on my button versus the other fifteen that air there I don't know if that was making me that would make me stand out so I decided not to and it sounds like I was really deep but I didn't have the five hundred fifty dollars to begin with to market on there anyway so I was kind of like relegated to making saying no but in retrospect was a really good decision because what we can do is photographers is created conversation create ways for people to connect on the web and so what happened was unbeknownst to me I wrote an article I wrote about post and I I spoke about the first look what we're gonna be actually shooting today is the first look is when a bride and groom off to see each other before the ceremony so I talked about my personal experience and I talked about why I feel like it's so much more beneficial on a wedding day if you want good pictures and if you care about the layout of the day um a first look is definitely advantageous from both the photographer's perspective ah bright's perspective and the overall party of the perspective you have five hours four hours with your gas for five hours with your guests maximize that time and sometimes people don't put that into it so I wrote a blood post about it and that was that well a girl who took a really popular girl on this forum got the block post went to the forum and said I don't know if you guys agree with this what do you think about what this photographer is saying and then she gave a link to my block and that day I had a total spike in traffic and so some a lot of girls are treating conversation and some girls agreed that some girls didn't that's fine remember because I'm trying to connect or repel not everybody will agree with me but it started to conversation and from that single conversation that took me I don't know maybe twenty minutes to write that bob post I got probably more advertising than I would have had him paid five hundred and fifty dollars for the month of advertising so rethinking it such a no I was done talking so good uh just with a country yes you know I want to be a photographer I need money to survive central outside jobs so I can't really be too picky with choosing a bride that fits kind of but you know it's kind of business right now like to just you know shoot winnings that's really what I wanna do so therefore house should be marked in myself in that kind of thing the marketing the marketing say I get asked this question quite a bit the marketing stays the same because like my marketing really goes back teo leveraging who you are regardless of the market says you're moving into it and not even like you're moving towns you're moving countries right so you're moving to a whole new country um so if I were you honestly honestly I'll just keep it really I love my husband were happily in love but if it was a video of you talking I would onstage instantly like I can I like it right if you're okay what makes you different you're you're a transplant in canada coming from london and you dress well you have that european kind of flair to you and you have great hair again these are all things because people again brides shove out of impulse emotion connectivity what makes you different you so the marketing stays the same um and of course I'm I'm now afforded that luxury I don't actually pick my clients my planes pick me so it'll still be the same for you and I'm not saying to turn away clients but be very cautious like if you really feel like um you see warnings like sometimes they're not red flags but those pink flags and you just are like oh I don't no if you're already second guessing it a year a year and a half out from the wedding there's a high likelihood that it's not gonna be a good fit so yes of course get in there move move but from experience you know I did I did take a wedding that probably wasn't a good fit for me and I saw the pink flags they were like pink and orange that was almost at the red but I was like no I'll make it work make it work and it wasn't a very good situation I mean she was very nice to me but she treated the other renders like horrifically so it was just not a good situation so if you see those flags stay away from them but if not you treat every single client you bust your hump and you do what you do and then the more experience you get the more your name gets on that market then you can kind of hone in specifically on whatsapp a client you want yes coming back to the blogging and created conversation how do you find topics to talk about every day because I know you love every day how do you do that so hard yeah okay and then it did people here are jews question are we good with with sound now we're good ok great I just wanted to make sure people heard a question um it's really hard yeah times when I'm walking the dog and I don't know what to write about I totally don't but like most things in life the harder you work the more gratifying it becomes I feel like my life has to be it's just my personality not everybody has to be is organized as I think people should be I happen to live my life I'm not even lying my desk would probably drive people crazy I have multi colored post it notes and I keep a list of all the little things I need to do on sunday night I plan out for the week what I'm going to block so that helps me so and I'm not saying that you should block every day like what I do is not necessarily what everybody should do but I do think a little drip of conversation on a weekly basis is definitely to your advantage um to post a week I think is awesome three is great great great if you could rock that out um and so I plan for the week so I wrecked on monday tuesday wednesday thursday friday and I know when I shot the week before I know how long it takes me to take teo edit on engagement section I know how long it takes me to edit a wedding I can anticipate where it will fall I knew that I shot a wedding on saturday and had I been at home I would have logged on tuesday or wednesday but because of the travel because of this time it took me a little bit more time to go through the edit so I haven't planned on friday so that's what I'll block the wedding hopefully um I knew that I haven't done and I think you asked me so it was about a time for an epic you so this morning I blogged in f a q about posing and choosing favorites yesterday I knew that I was gonna be starting creative live and for people who don't follow me on twitter who aren't um listening to that side of my megaphone well I'm gonna block about that um tuesday I well whatever the case may be you plan for things in advance my mom always said and I hate like I feel like the older I get the morning turned into my mother and I'm like what is going on my mom's watching now she really is watching me she just texted me she's like is that a new jacket doing she thinks you're so cool on the internet I mean she really does look like she hasn't a well email address still don't like mom like you can get gmail like seriously and she's like I like my hair well like there's something gratifying about you've got mail sir I'm not lying but anyway so um where was I going where was it going blogging yes lugging thinking what yeah in your head every day yes that's what I was talking about e not my mom but I don't know yeah so oh she that's what she said my mother always said if you if you plan to fail if you fail to plan you plan to fail and so you'll get that kind of deep seated just somebody tweet that get crazy my mom she's not on twitter though she says you know I've seen everything she's like I see that people are twittering and uh yeah I was just like oh mom don't say that stuff you know s so um my mom's name is my mom's name is millie oh my mom is just she's anything she's so cool I promise stations until ladies at church she's going to church today should be like I was talked about on the interwebs yeah no it'll be cool so um don't take a question from people keep asking how you deal with bridezilla or how you respectfully turn away people that you don't want to work with I'm not a difficult question but I always feel like honesty is the best policy if somebody's not gonna like me somebody's going to be frustrated with who I am I would like that they not like me for precisely who I am instead of beating around the bush it is an uncomfortable conversation to have but it's farm or uncomfortable to have a conversation when she's absolutely positively crazy if you know that in advance just take a step away um lucky for me I don't know if I'm I don't really attracts bridezillas I don't know if that makes sense I kind of ok I'll say I got a feeling drama attracts drama you know like if you're blogging about all the drama in your life your fly's open e take a shower today I did know but if you log about that kind of stuff you will attract this kind of people and I kind of feel like I keep the block really late um I tracked reid's who are no nonsense I want to have a good time at my wedding they are very much like me they hired me to be a professional like take care of my day thank you some match made perfect like I don't need to be micromanaging me on um if you do kind of see these signs or warnings or you just feel it I feel like as human beings were neatly programmed to have a sensory cold with whether or not we're going to mesh with somebody and honesty and always offer a recommendation if you feel like this one person it's never like you just don't like a person for not liking a person there's something about that person that's not a good fit for you I remember one time having tio not work with bride because in the beginning you know she started off emailing me like four or five six times a day and I hadn't met with her haven't spoken with her I just emailed her once and in between correspondents and I usually get back to my client's within twenty four hours I mean so many emails from her and she sent me like a four page shot list we haven't even spoken on the first meeting and she sent me a shot list so this to me is if you're going to send me a shot list like twelve months prior to your wedding I could only imagine what that shot list will be the week before the wedding so automatically I'm kind of feeling I know it's not a good fit for me she's a perfect fit for somebody else who likes to have checks and balances to each his own um and so on that shot list there was a ton of family portrait I am not that great at family portrait so I'm not going to take the funk and so I just said listen I don't think that we're necessarily a good fit but I can recommend other photographers who are really good at portrait photography and why feel will be to your advantage on your wedding day and um be honest one time in the beginning of my business this is back in the days when nobody was talking about me on the forums and I wanted every single wedding there was a bride who contacted me and um I don't know what it was but I could just tell by the tonality of her emails and she's very high maintenance very demeaning and I just don't like no this is totally not gonna work and I didn't have a reason for me to teo sight I think you should go to somebody else it was just I don't think this is gonna work and um I emailed her back and I said you know what please forgive me I'm sorry I wasted your time I don't think that necessarily take where that great of a fit if there's anything I could do to help you find the right photographer please let me know and I promise I will work on that for you but I just don't think what we have right now we'll work she emailed back within half hour and ripped me a new one like I can't believe you're doing this is that rain okay for people on the internet like it's not raining it's rainy this's nothing I'm in california like this right here is like noah's ark expects to draft to walk down the street any second now it is raining it does not rain on my running days it well whatever we're just gonna run with it right I mean you could literally hear like it scared I'm scared wait so going back I e mailed her and I told her I don't think this is gonna work in the uncomfortable e mail descent and I was really nervous she doesn't back she's angry she says I promise you I'm gonna go on every single forum and I am going to tell him how what bad service you've given me you basically I'm an awful person so I start crying I have a moment and jd who's working at his part time job not making any money is in the shower I barge into the bathroom with my computer is that what you're doing and like trying to read this email and he sticks his head out of the shower and he's like what are you talking about what what are you scared off and I'm like I'm just scared just go two inches gonna bash me and I'm never gonna work again and I don't even have any weddings and he's like what do you afraid of that she's gonna go on a forum and she's going to say jasmine star turned me away like that makes you look good you're not so hungry to get every single wedding that you want he said can I have a feeling she's not gonna go out there and say somebody turning away because it makes her look bad people say well why did she turn you away you know what they think about the conversation it would happen after that point she was just like oh thank you so much it was I'm not sometimes I'm just like all over the place and he just can't is very even keel and he's just like think about how everything could play out and what's the worst possible scenario so when I laid out the worst possible scenario it kind of sort of wasn't that bad and I whenever okay with it and I went on forums and was looking like where's she gonna be we're gonna be and I didn't see it anywhere so I mean I'm still shooting so it was okay so yeah thank you so I just wanted to give you a time check it's eleven forty five great I just wanted to know if you want to take another question I do because I think he started a little bit later okay great that's okay I have a question from yesterday from vision studio after you made the transition after you make a transition from a second shooter two primary shooter where do you look for feedback on your um that's a really good question um to be I need a studio flee okay so participating yeah watching he really wanted to be here that's us that's a good sign um when actually to be honest I'm just gonna answer it how it happened for me I didn't really look for feedback because I was really scared of it I don't want it I don't want people to tell me what I was doing wrong I was just like I'm the kind of person who will hide behind my own insecurities and figure it out before I'm confident to put myself out there so I really wasn't trying to look for feedback if you are looking for feedback I think the best possible way to do it would be in like a a forum of sorts like going to the b school are going to o s p forum posting up your pictures oh my god there's our super bride oh my god you're the best oh that I really do feel so bad like ideo like way had dinner last night and she was just kind of like in a funk a little bit because whatever it's raining and it's just so leave it to the canadians never romantic rain is wet like I believe it's supposed to be good luck well yeah it rained on my wedding day I didn't think it was good luck I was just like the faltering greet me still are still married so I get it yeah you know it's fine it's fine no but I think it really puts the fire under my bomb really try to do a good job for you like you have to make it work so um and that's really yeah very real exactly exactly but going back to the studio question lee's question if you want to be back I wouldn't necessarily put it out online like on your block like what tell me what you guys think because if nobody answers it's kind of late hello hello there's echoes in the in the web what you put out in the forum and you ask for constructive criticism people do offer what they think it is so on a forum I think would be the best thing or if you're part of a flicker group I'm not a part of one but I see what that is happening there with a really awesome totally totally totally great so that would be it armed because in other industries mentors in fours are pretty big in photography's that coming did you have a mentor did it they did it well I mean I'd pretend mentors I name you my mentor but they didn't even know existed so like and I think that happens still to this day because I am like quite personal only glogg and do write a lot of things hues like people I mean I noticed it like on facebook today people writing like oh you know thank you so much for giving back here like a mentor like a teacher and like that's awesome I don't know you are so well that you feel that way I mean anytime that we can create like a gift a connection on the web is totally great and in like manner I looked the other photographers who were blocking a lot or who really active on forums and I'm just like I really like what you're saying and so um you find a person who measures well with your style who you kind of like and then you kind of move from there so that's how I kind of feel like mentors definitely works didi is your question that you want to get me wait just reading on the internet rain is good luck that's what it that's what everyone's tweeting about but you have to say that right you just do I wasn't right in the rain I don't want to hear that no it was a torrential downpour rachel rachel edge says tell your bride that the reason rain is good luck is because a wet knot is harder to untie than a dry not wait working to the club booth I'm not lying you're probably well okay cool how about we do I'm just two more questions and I kind of put us back around yes yes so you talked about connecting a repelling clients and your clients finding you do you feel like you need to pitch to clients still um I don't think I ever pitched a client ever did it like I feel bad e I like um my photographer didn't pitch to me at all and that was the exact experience that works for me there are other photographers I've sat in seminars where photographers are like diamond sellers like literally like what do you want what do you need paper goods right now twenty bring the contract was signed right here it's like oh my god if anybody ever approached me that way I would be like no no no no no like this is no I'm not buying a used car like you know I'm making an investment that's literally going to lost the rest of my life and for me children and grandchildren or whatever the case may be how he handled my situation with super chill it was just like hey if you want to do this it's great yeah we could work something out for you what's your budget when you have great with awesome that's my thing like always even when I was really wanting to shoot weddings I would meet in starbucks because that's where all the photographers me I will never forget I promise you can make this up I was in starbucks and I would bring my laptop and at the time I finally afforded a sample albums so one simple album and I would bring my laptop and I would send a slide shows to the clients before we had the meeting so hopefully they were kind of familiar with my work and so I'm sitting there I have my laptop I have the album and I got there early because you know it starbucks not all the time you get good tables open don't want to sit the small little two seater table you want to get the corner one with the four chairs so I would have to wait for that so get there early and I did that then I'm sitting on I'm waiting and a guy comes in and he sits at the table right next to me he opens up his laptop and he brings out a sample now on me and I'm yelling I'm yelling the mic the guys in the micro like shut up no but so he comes in and plane comes in and he sits down and he's showing her his light show and my client comes in and I have to show her my slight so I was so in embarrassed I was like wow this is like I kind of felt like I was like what are they called like what are those markets called farmers markets photography like taking like here's a sample of bread like oh my god I was so embarrassed but whatever it was what it was what was the question why am I off track if you have to pitch to think even bringing it all back so when they would come and meet with me it's not like I had a lot of swag it was just like hey this is what I shoot these are my prices let's talk and you get them talking about themselves and I think that's a different approach a lot of times and you meet or at least when I met with wedding photographers they want to talk about themselves their style what they can offer you how they're different but at the end of the day when you give an opportunity to let somebody else talk you hear what they need and what they want and then you could say I think I could do that for you that's I think like the biggest thing so it's never been a pitch for me but you'll hear it ten thousand different ways it just works for however one more question I have a question so I was checking out um david jay's website last night and he was talking about uh freedom fulfillment so I just was wondering for you as far as last year's your life do you feel like you have a lot more of those two things you feel like you have a lot of freedom you can live your life however you want now who is it um where am I and I'd just like one of my favorite singers I totally forgot his name um nineteen sixties um like freedom like songs come on like I want to say it's not john lennon people help me out here somebody like warren the way bob not doing thank you thank you I'm totally random facebook like why do you have these moments I have brain farts leave me alone it's how I roll bob dylan he writes a song and the main course of it is that you have to serve somebody kings and slaves and whoever else have to serve somebody my dad always like as I grew up my dad always said you don't have to brush your teeth but you will become a slave to cavities if you don't want to become a slave to cavities even have to become a slave to your toothbrush so well I do feel I have a sense of freedom from having uh a boss I'd become a slave to myself and in those given those two situations I like where I am right now as faras fulfillment goes I don't think I've ever been happier in fact I'm so happy I'm scared I'm so happy cause I feel like oh my god because for like three years did I just feel like for three years I was so so so unhappy like bad unhappy and then you get happy and you're just afraid to go back so I'm gonna write it as long as we can I thank god that I am where I am wei will end the question there I just you know I was thinking about today and I was like okay just you can't cry can't get all can't get all girlish but um I kind of feel like this whole experience I feel like it makes me broken inside oh god what did you want with no okay I am okay I okay I'm just really really really thankful I'm very thankful and it think that I don't deserve any of this at all the people want to use it just blows me away okay I'm stopping e I'm done okay okay we'll just wait okay I'm done well jasmine I just want to say that that kind of emotion that you know that intensity that you have is you know that's that's magic thatyou you're sharing with everyone so you should you should embrace that emotion now I make it if I'm a girl like a long last matter of kiss good god dad ok I'm good I'm good was that the last question yeah they're okay wait there's a great difference between now and you're going to get going oh no please cross has been crying right now scream and they cry I swear if I cry one more time I'm getting myself off this island I'm not even lying this is not even funny I'm like how my cried on internet this is so weird okay actually if you could take another question that's totally fine too thank you any other questions no one's like you know like I don't want that weird question I just got a question without truck there's a follow up to a lot of photographers who aren't even invented look at a swell clothes good for you super inspiring so I was just wondering who are some of the top with the wedding photography industry you know maybe a couple of you great I think before I answer that question there's so much talent in the industry that goes beyond who most people look at and when I do look at other wedding photographers I don't look at them to see like can I do that I don't measure I used to so I mean talk about what it used to used to look at other photographers and measure my self worth against their most recent performance and of course it would never match up still to this day I look at what other photographers are doing and I think I could never do that ever and I could wallow in that or I wouldn't say I might not be good at that or shooting in such a way but I might be okay doing this and focusing on what you feel is your strange will help you feel just better about yourself and read realign your vision having said that people that I look teo um uh I think when I first started the people who I looked teo where my wedding photographer but he's no longer shooting so he has a different trajectory in this life but I was looking to david j I was looking to photographer based in newport beach with uneven mike cologne it's c o l o n um and um I was looking teo becker he's based in orange county I was looking just with claire I was looking to susan stripling I think that susan does something with photos that I still look at her photos alan I don't think that I could ever do what she does um I looked tio actually a photographer here she's newer but I feel like she's gonna be the next she's kind of leading a different a different trajectory I don't shoot in her stell what so everybody feel like she has this funky thing about her and sarah roads I think that she does I think she does great work e I think that um gosh I felt like oh I like fred egan's work he's based out of texas who doesn't do weddings so much anymore he does more commercial work but uh or lifestyle I like I like looking at his stuff I think it's just different perspective and I think that he takes photos whereas other people look like they're really really really good photo shop and that's fine the photo shop is great if that's like your style it's just not my style I prefer just pretty looking pictures and so who else is in my collaborator I don't even know if I can I think I like from this spot right now I'll look I'll bring out the google reader and I'll kind of give like a review I think and I know I'm like all over the place like boom I have no idea was he judgment yes um people the children were having a little bit of problems hearing the questions so if you wouldn't mind just kind of peace or summarising it before you answer yeah that would be great great I look funny when I drink water on the internet I was watching the rewatch last night and I was like don't drink water like that was like I need to get a straw so I really do but anyway is there another question yeah definitely questions from the chat room this question came up yesterday about copyrighting and licensing issues um if they're going to talk about that okay moving relative you don't have a baby here that you don't have a business manager or you're you're working with jd and you're outsourcing you're outsourcing your edits yes and other than that it's just the two of you just do this and you do everything else yourselves you have a lawyer I do everywhere hee hee jazz and went to law school for about a semester or two she's our lawyer well not really I mean I'm like the worst where you never get e I basically ideas and principles of what I know would work or what you know what works yes of course I yes model releases contract okay one time I'm so crazy law schools screws with your head I'm not like one time we live in our apartment our neighbor was moving out and he said hey can I keep a few things in your garage and jd being greedy he's like a total hippie he belongs in seattle his soul in I'm not even lying total granola sure go ahead whatever you want he comes up he's like a whole like mike's leaving stuff in the garage and I was like what what is he leading jockeys like I don't know he's just loading up the garage and I'm like no I got outta posted a postcard because well tiny like index card and I wrote down that we were not liable for anything my bust up because I read cases where people put things on your property you become liable for what happens in like what if he has a fifteen thousand dollar painting in there and he's like mike the guy is four hundred dollars and right now he's not gonna put a fifteen thousand dollars painting you never know and so j he's like I'm not going to go have my exciting this index card I was just like please please I was like I won't be able to sleep for as long as we have this property in our garage and there goes me with the index card like my wife's really crazy but we just want to know it's okay that we're not liable for your stuff so if we're having mike and his you drunk in our garage and I'm making himself a contract and guess what I told her about the people's cars either I don't because um yeah that's like a bad news but and this has nothing to do with photography gets a lot of releases you like you're her are only to signing a release okay so this is kind of a funny thing like what I know what I know what I know what I know is that you can't sign on behalf of somebody else but I have my clients sign on behalf of somebody else as an understanding that the guests know and of course like legally you can't and you can't for anything is implied you can't imply that guests coming to the wedding is signing his or her releases for images to be on the web however notifying the clients and if I feel like the client if I feel like somebody's in the witness protection program like toe let that person know the photographer will be there so bring a hat in the most stash I have no idea I don't know but that isn't understanding that we need to establish before I did have clients who wanted to book me and we went back and forth back and back and forth because I uh I'm gonna say it and like whatever people hate me if you don't want me blocking the wedding I probably won't shoot the wedding what I do how I am the person how what makes us tick is the fact that I'm able to showcase can't showcase is doesn't do anything for me and so there's this clients who wanted to book me was a great man you a great opportunity on dh they worse he's a lawyer so he's like a legit lawyer to stanford like he went back and forth back and forth but with the contract and he's saying no I cannot sign it cannot sign and I'm just like listen I don't want you to sign if you're not comfortable if you're not comfortable with this agreement I don't want you signing it but that's okay and there's so many other photographers who could do such a great job and I come to find out that his family is part of like the chinese consulate and there's a lot of things that you know could go awry or whatever I said listen when or if I used any images online um as far as a blogger and a slide show I will refrain from putting people on that these photos will just be of you and your fiance and immediate family members if anybody in the media family is of concern then I will omit those as well we had an open conversation he said I'm very comfortable with it thank you and that's fine but yes soas faras anything absolutely you need to be on a legal understanding of what your clients are getting what you are getting I require a fifty percent retainers fee I don't require fifty percent deposit because the deposit is refundable of retainers fee is not so I make it very clear that any time I mean aging at any type of email when a client calls me and we have a conversation and she says I want to add to our sir the collection or what have you I will email her because now email is admissible as a source of confirmation or denial and I said I just want to follow up with you we're adding two hours for x amount of dollars you know whatever the case may be when she responds with that I'm cataloguing her email as saying in the affirmative yes that's what we agreed to and I agreed to pay the extra thousand dollars or whatever so yes so now that we're talking about about the business details we have had a number of questions about what you include in your package and for that seventy five hundred dollars and maybe you could talk a little bit I think I'll be getting to that a little bit later okay great is that if that's ok that's great okay good we'll definitely be be be touching on that so we're gonna maybe do one more question and then get into it or create I'm like making calls and I don't even know kreager we are we approved to get into chatting I can ask one more question while yo greg oh there you are are we good way great when I feel that okay and I didn't want to do those uh I want to do those questions too I want to do this script twitter fashions okay so we'll do one question do you get your client's timeline input or work within whatever timeline you're given laurie bracewell hey girlfriend okay laurie it's a good question do I offer input actually I will email my clients about three to four weeks prior to their wedding and I request the timeline and it also in requesting the timeline I asked them if they'd like any type of input as faras photography goes you can't offer input two days before this wedding scheduled because it's already solidified you have more wiggle room the farther out you are away from from the wedding so like I had mentioned yesterday the clients for saturday's wedding weren't planning on seeing each other and I talked to the wedding coordinator but that conversation that I had with the wedding coordinator was about three and a half weeks before the actual wedding date I couldn't have this conversation two days before because I'm not going to throw a loop in the plans and sometimes the answer is yes to both things do I offer input yes or do I work within the time constraints and I'm given yes both the situations however ideally I would offer input and then let it on the table I don't say this is what I think do I say this is what would work better for photography but if that's maybe not her biggest concern then it is what it is she wants more time for cocktail hour she wants more time to dance or whatever so yes and yes