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Introduction to Jasmine Star

brings me great pleasure to introduce someone who have recently come friends with uh I want to give a little back story when when we're planning creative live again creative life is um kind of a side gig for me trying to help democratize creative education and when every time I sit down on dh focus my attention and I get really excited about it and there's obviously a bunch of classes from all walks that creative pursuits from painting and drawing design uh and of course photography and video which is my area of expertise and where I get my professional excitement from and when we talk about the photography stuff specifically uh one of the things that I'm excited about is kind of curating the list of people that we get to bring in here we brought in some amazing folks um before jasmine and and uh folks like vince a lot for a good friend of mine uh zacarias dave do sherman uh scott born um and the list where are you john right there john green goes in the house um john is an amazing ins...

tructor as well so it's been really really fun to kind of to curate that list and what I'm doing is I'm really listening to the internet so if there are people that you want to have on the show um tell me and I've got my ear to the to the ground and in the process of doing that and having my ear to the to the ground one thing that kept coming up is there's a huge chunk of the world the photography that is focused on weddings and portrait's and whatnot and and we hadn't really represented that well and the name that kept coming up as someone that people wanted to have on creative life was jasmine so I called you remember where you got your phone number from I don't know either no actually I do remember you do can I share please again I still haven't introduced to you so you know I was like okay this like diva mrs mom moment no um I actually he mailed you a long time ago and I asked him if you would want to be a cow stupid asked if you wanted to be a guest blogger here he is like a big could have logging and mike do you read my book and I didn't hear back I'm not offended I'm totally not offended at all I totally get it I totally get it I mean he's so busy anyway and so all of a sudden foolish foolishly I get an email is this cheese jarvis in like he wants to write my book on he asked her my phone number and I gave it to them this is not an advertisement for me to write on your blood you won't get it mom s o into two former she described I guess I got her for her phone number from her on dh thunder and has had a conversation about it and said we would love to have you up here and plan something extraordinary um and kind of break the rules of training because it's gonna be on location it's going to hurt for people to follow but it's gonna be challenging and engaging and more than anything I feel like that's what the world wants they don't want another person just kind of mom lime on turning on about about uh what it is that they do they want something is dynamic and and that's what we wanted to create and after a couple phone calls back and forth and then connecting with craig we have created or you guys really have created something that I think is going to be magic and interesting experience for everybody I know how hard our crew I mean I've been in the country for the last little bit came back to just a maelstrom of just planning and I know how hard our crews worked and and I know how hard you've been planning for this thing and it's with great pleasure that I'm introducing so he's been on stage for last thirty minutes but who's going to bring you amazing five days it gives me great pleasure to turn you over to the amazing jay star jasmine star is in the house coming around I'm gonna crash your party a couple times at the weekend cause I'm in seattle and I'm gonna learn a few things because I honestly I had to get creative or chase jarvis live yesterday I learned a ton I don't know anything about waiting photography I secretly think you want to be my third shooter I'm just going to say that I'm gonna bring it out in the open fourth suitor way thank you very much thank you for the opportunity I really really really I said it yesterday and I'll say it again in front of whoever's watching this is something beyond my wildest dreams I can't believe I'm here thank you thank you have fun you guys thank you on what he didn't what he didn't mention either was the fact that when he first called I was just like no he said we want to create something so big something the internet hasn't seen before he's like wait we want to put on the wedding and I was just like you're crazy like no and we want to broadcast it life and I'm like you're crazier and here's a bigger no but the thing about chase is that he could sell ice to an eskimo like he's just like no and he takes no as like fuel he's just like you're daring me you're daring me and so no a mean little look my my little faith I didn't think that this would come together and here we are in seattle putting together this thing and we're all part of the project and it's gonna be an amazing day an amazing wedding and um I thank you guys so much for um I think it was such a girl I um no I just can't believe I'm here it's just like a huge honor I don't know why anybody would want to come hear me speak but I'm totally blown away by it I think that we're going to grow and learn together because every wedding than his chute I feel like I learned something more because I make a ton of mistakes so if you guys could be extra forgiving I would appreciate it if you guys have questions more than anything is just keep it really like I know right now we kind of feel like everything's like formalised in like school ish just like shake it off we're gonna be together for five days so it's gonna be like summer camp feeling leg I expect friendship bracelets at the end like pen pal notes like the whole nine so we're definitely going to do this and we're going to rock it out but before I start talking I just want to say thank you and I would love if you guys would introduce yourselves because I feel like I know you because I've checked out your blog's I saw your videos I know you guys are from nate's gonna have a baby you just moved to canada I mean we know what is going on so what I do but maybe not the online audience does and I know that they're going to be as much as they're watching me they're gonna be watching you too I will be having conversations with you so I want to put your personalities out on the web because this isn't my thing it's our thing so um I think we're going to start here and if you guys could let me know um just your name where you're from how long you've been shooting and your twitter handle if you guys want to put that out if people want to have conversations with you about like if my breath smells or if I'm really mean behind the scenes like please feel free to go ahead so those four things uh uh my name's uh such ancona from london england uh basically been shooting for ah quite a few years since since I was a kid and stuff and then but weddings most recently since basically by year year and a half andi yeah my twitter handle was at the fourth one think this is at such ancona so can you spelled it out yeah sure it's s a ch I n co owner is k h I love it I love it I'm gonna start speaking like you in the end I love it oh you have done to everybody okay my name's stephanie miller I have been seriously shooting for six months that's why I call myself the rookie photographer I'm from good old los angeles uh on my twitter handle is s miller photos not miller e money was nate perks uh my wife and I live in idaho just outside of boise in a place called star idaho like jazz and said we are expecting a baby and figure which really excited about your first baby I've been photographing for about I'm doing weddings for about a year and a half two years on my twitter handle is at nate parks so it's n a t e p r k s my name is adjustment I live just north of copenhagen in denmark with my husband and my adorable little little girl she's seven months and same same thing a stephanie I just started photography seriously but six months ago five months ago so before that playing on enough but so wouldn't you buy and your twitter handle and my twitter handle is um at audra smith's photo uh my name is victoria demartini I'm from montreal where you may have heard I have a few kath well uh thank god my boyfriend gabby likes cats too because otherwise I would be living in a garage uh this is my third year shooting weddings I've been I've loved photography since high school I used to be a photographer for the school yearbook and I just sort of always shot I used to do nature photography before and then uh my friend dori if you're up there hey dragged me into wedding photography uh my twitter handle is at cookie cat chick e maii cool cool cool um thank you guys again for coming out I mean I totally do appreciate it um I think more than anything I hits it here in um talk a lot about what I've done but I think it would behoove us to understand a little bit of back story I did touch briefly on this yesterday with on chief service lives so if it is repetitive to some of you watch please forgive me but I'm gonna do it in the interest of those who aren't familiar with who I am because I do think that there are some people who just listen and accept things and I'm not one of those people I definitely come from a place of no and I'm very skeptical so in order for you to understand a little bit from work I mean where I stand now to see how far calm in such a short amount of time I really want everybody to know like the backstory backstory basically is that I didn't know my left from my right and yet somehow was able was I was able to create a business and what help from a lot of different people from a lot of different resources which is why I firmly believe in giving back teo community education and white creative life this resonated super well with me because I want people tio get better a rising tide raises all ships so I feel like if we can all get back and whatever when you guys have the opportunity to go home please feel free to set up meetings we'll talk about your experience whatever it is to disseminate information I think that that's how the industry as a whole is going to move forward so thank you so much for that um a brief introduction about um who I am um I started this big photography experience back in two thousand six but the story actually begins around two thousand five and in two thousand five I was at law school I had a full ride um aflac atomic ride and it was a great great great experience um I love the experience but I hated law school it was a terrible fit for me and it just wasn't a good thing um part of what augmented the problem was that I felt like my personality did it fits so well in law school and I was doing fine academically but one thing that I didn't really anticipate was that I was my mother was diagnosed with brain cancer and cancer of the central nervous system when I was twenty and in college and well she kind of teetered for a little bit um she was she was just she was doing okay so I went into law school and then during my first year she had a relapse with brain cancer and at this point in time the doctors were just like you know it's about the quality of her life so it's time to make a decision to pull back from chemotherapy and so um at that point in time we weren't sure what was going to go on and I thought if my mom were to pass um I want to be with her and um I will never forget walking into law school and literally turning on my heel in quitting that same day and I I shouldn't say it quick I just needed a medical leave so I woke up that morning and part of the scholarship was that I got to live on this brand new beautiful online on campus housing it's gorgeous so it's in west l a I'm literally a block from like the bel air gate and they loved where I was living I got him to the campus tramp want went into law school with all my books and I turned on my heel and I walked to the dean's office and he said you know what I think I was gonna die and I just need some time and she's just like ok no problem you have that we'll give you we'll reinstate your scholarships you have five years to come back and get your scholarship and I said okay that's what I'm gonna do so I called jd might now husband but at the time was my boyfriend and they call him and I'm like hey you know I quit lot earlier I said I just got out of law school and he's like okay cool do you want to grab dinner leader like you know really like I left I just left law school and he was just like wait what I didn't talk to anybody about this decision because I knew that it was right for me at that time and so part of part of like a issue our problem became that because I was on scholarship because I lived on on campus housing I had to move out because I was no longer so he had this total beater truck I mean it was so ghetto it had a cab on the truck okay who has a cab on their trucks when you look into the california jd had a cabin is a total like nineteen eighty two ford ranger I mean feet up alongside but whatever we packed of his truck and they literally moved within like two days and I didn't have anywhere to go so I moved home thank you that I was just gonna be a transition on my my mom was fifty and I was twenty five and I thought if my mom passes I don't know I had a midlife crisis like that's really what it turned into because I felt like I'm twenty five years old and if I if I have twenty five years left in my life I don't want to be a lawyer I don't want to be unhappy and I was very unhappy with where I wass and so I I went home and I was like on cloud nine I was lust like mom I'm home like this is great we're gonna be together and then the next morning I woke up in the same bedroom that I had I had when I was like sixteen and literally there is like a cheer uniform in the closet and there were and seen the posters on my wall yes I wasn't and think go ahead eight me I don't care but I kind of was just like what did I do what I think I made a huge mistake um but actually I don't in retrospect I don't think that those things as mistakes they just think that that's like life guiding in the direction you're supposed to go on at the end of the day I knew that life was too short to be so unhappy and so I was at home about three and a half months I was working a part time job I was doing whatever I could just to make some money and to survive I picked up writing gigs here and there whatever I could and then um about three months of living at home j d proposed and it came out of the blue I wasn't really expecting it but it rallied the whole family gave us everything it gave us something to look or two which was really exciting for all of us we planned a destination wedding in hawaii and we planted in about six months and the whole family kind of got excited for it really gave my mom something to look forward to so I do believe as wedding photographers we have the capability of really um challenging a family unit in ways that we don't even really understand because little did my wedding photographer realized that the impact that he would have on my life so we're planning this destination wedding and I'm looking online and I'm trying to find I'm trying to find a wedding photographer and who I happen to come across is a photographer by the name of david jay and I was literally on google looking and I typed in wedding photo journalist that's all I typed in I come up on google and I find this diva j guy and click on his web site that was completely blown away I was just like who is this guy like I was so amies like I was crying looking at this website I turned to my sister my best friend who we happen to be looking for because we all planned the wedding together because it was my wedding but it was like our wedding you know like they're like we need to have a say in your wedding but we plan it my mom couldn't walk at the time I thought they're carried her down to the couch and we're sitting at the dining room table and were just like oh my god who is this guy for like high fiving each other like yeah we just found the wedding photographer I went to his bio section and he had like I don't know like six or seven pages in his bio section and I felt like I liked him as a person like yes I liked his photos but he was really really awesome he had a baby picture of him and his dad he went sky diving like all these rain and things that I shouldn't know because it wasn't necessarily professional but there I was like watching him and I'm like I like him I like everything he is and who like what he does and so then I get to his pricing page on like I turned on my sister and also said he's no wedding for tiger because I knew that I couldn't afford him so I flew to hawaii to plan the wedding I spent a weekend up there I got an email from him and he said that uh when I got back to the mainland we would chat we would talk and I knew right there and then that I would do whatever I possibly humanly good I actually emailed him I'm so pathetic and I can't believe I'm admitting this on the world wide web e mailed him and I said I will carry your bags that future wedding like work off your services for my for my wedding I'm not even lying how embarrassing but I knew that I wanted I wanted him at my wedding I need there was something special about him yes it was his photographs but it was so much about him and who he was and everything he possessed and we went back got back home and he emailed and he said that if he could pick the wedding date that he would shoot the wedding and the wedding date that he chose was wednesday september twenty eighth two thousand five and I said that's our wedding date so he flew for a midweek wedding in hawaii and um it was most beautiful thing he documented a miracle my mother wasn't supposed to be there and yet she my father walking down so I think that like the things that we do possesses so much power it's not something that we can actually back away from and I think that that was the start of something so beyond my wildest dreams please I cannot look at what time lying victoria you're wiping tears I just feel like we're turning this into like a girl fast it's not no no no no no I do I actually thought I do admit I do get choked up when I talk about this experience it is a powerful thing and my mom is probably watching on the internet and that's something beyond my wildest dreams so it's a huge thing and on my wedding day my wedding photographer brought out a laptop this size and he showed the same day slide show of the of the photos that he documented on that day and everybody in the room grown man were crying like sobbing because of the power that he possessed he showcased my wedding day in such a beautiful way and he documented a miracle the power that we have as wedding photographers far supersedes anything that we could ever do or no urban safe so of course I love my wedding photos I feel like the happiest girl in the world this isn't september go back home in november and it's time for me to make a declaration this in november in five time to me to make a declaration to go back to law school to pick up where I went back to school cause I had to start spring semester and of course it seems like I cry a lot I'm not a crier but according to this morning you would think that I'm a big baby I'm totally not but on this day in november I'm crying and I'm so unhappy because I don't want to go back to law school and so we're sitting there and I'll never forget what we're eating that night I would say the story again and again and again and it will always talk about the mediterranean pasta pasta and had artichoke hearts in it and it was actually quite delicious but I couldn't eat it because I was crying so much and there's a feta cheese in extended ever playing with the noodle on my plate thinking I'm really miserable in law school and I had a conversation with jd and he said ok if you could wake up every day for the rest of your life and do something what would it be and I turned him in he said I want to be a wedding photographer and he's like like I want to be an underwater basket weaver you know it was like the craziest thing he had ever heard him he's like I know that you liked our wedding photos but like really and I'm like yes I think I did it I was stalking my photographers block he had a um a photography forum that I learned so much it's like it's o s p photography for him it's still there to this day you will learn so much information it's a free forum free photography forum that I learned everything that I know about photography till this day os peform photography for him so um he says okay and he says something I will never forget for the rest my life he said I would rather see you fail at something you love then succeed at something you hate and with that I had the permission to follow my dreams and I gave myself a year because I didn't believe in my abilities to be quite honest I think that it's easy in retrospect to feel like I knew it was gonna happen I had full faith like I'm a go getter I always strive for the top no not at all I didn't believe in my abilities in fact I didn't want to spend any of our savings in investing in in a camera gear because I was just like no it's not gonna happen so then christmas time two thousand six I get my very first camera which is a cannon twenty d comes with the kit lens and I am in business I'm like oh hey I am legit now I have myself on kit lens what is the good fifteen erlich eighteen five or whatever it is so anyway I have my kit lands and I'm feeling like college it and the first time I actually touched the digital camera is in january of two thousand six I opened it up and I'm so intimidated because I don't I don't even want to turn it on I don't even know how to put the battery in and so I'm just like okay this is what working this is what I'm trying a year let's see how it goes for a year well I have the opportunity to second shoot for a few weddings I'll be talking about that in a little bit by second shot a few weddings and then they booked my very first wedding for october of two thousand six that first wedding comes along and I shoot to other weddings that month so a total of three weddings in two thousand six and I shot close to forty weddings in two thousand and two thousand seven and that all happened without spending anything on marketing it was all done word of mouth it was all done online and I just think that says a lot for the changing dynamic and in the photography industry what you can do online and what you could use the social media and actually being transparent on the web and how much that change is what we do is artist specifically dealing with the types of client that we want to procure and get to move our brand forward so we're talking more about that today another thing too is if you guys have questions please feel free the reason why you guys were chosen is because I feel like you're in my slice of the internet if I'm not making sense which happens a lot just maybe like what did you mean there because if you're having that question I guarantee you there are other people on the web who have the same question so don't feel like that if I feel like I'm going if I feel like I'm gonna answer the question later on in the presentation I will totally let you know and that applies very much well for people who are on the internet too um well quick just to back up a quick second so how I got because what happens is when I say I went from three weddings in two thousand six to thirty eight weddings in two thousand seven people want to know like well what the heck how did that happen we'll talk a little bit more about there but I want to talk talk a little bit about my first wedding and I'm gonna talk a lot today so please forgive me guys give should get comfortable janey you should probably go to starbucks and get a copy of your resident nodding off in a second I'm not that interesting but I'm just going to talk about mike experience because that's all I have like I watched david ish mons and I watched that arias is creative life and they're like so legit they're smart they're like deed their artistic like zach has a graying beard like he looks actually you know I don't even have that they're really good I don't have that but I only have me and I only have my experience that we will fall short of a ton of expectation but I'm just gonna lay it all out there right there having said that my very first wedding actually came as a recommendation from my wedding photographer now at the time my wedding photographer was charging twelve thousand dollars and so when you get a recommendation from your wedding photographer and he starting twelve thousand my first thought is oh my god my first wedding is going to be ten thousand dollars s o she this bride emails me when she says I got your name as a recommendation from david j and I'm getting married in october and I just want you know to get an idea your prices and of course I have no idea about pricing I don't know which way is up so I'm just like okay I emailed her back and I said well tell me what your budget is and she said and she e mailed back and she said for ten hours of coverage uh two photographers uh the disk of digital negatives and an engagement session I have a thousand dollars and I was just like funny that's what I charge and so that's the start of like my first legit official pricing structure as flawed as it is whatever it is what it is because I will say a thousand dollars is peanuts for what we do as artist but a thousand dollars for that wedding was almost as much as I made from my part time paycheck every two weeks so I mean it was what it was and my philosophy was I wanted to get in the industry specifically in orange county and los angeles southern california is this mecca of over amazing creative photographers who are all like born and bred there like thoroughbreds and what they do I'm not lying like they came out with a camera and I'm like I didn't I didn't have that and so I wanted to get my name out there in the industry and I knew that of course I could come out charging I don't know twenty five hundred three thousand I could have but it would be so much of a harder booking because I didn't necessarily have that much of a portfolio I couldn't afford to have an album a sample album made how could I compete with other people within that pricing structure without light without any type of like foundation so what I wanted to do was just get down get down get busy really fast please don't tweet that that one's a get down get your tio like not good to eat don't you yeah I know so I started shooting winning four thousand dollars and she said that she wanted all of that for a thousand dollars but I knew that I wanted her to put a little bit more value on what I was bringing to the table so the start of my pricing structure was ten hours an engagement session two photographers four thousand dollars if she wanted to add the disk of digital negatives well then that was maybe an extra five hundred dollars now I was so scared I was scared scared scared that she was gonna walk away this was mike this one was a recommendation for my own wedding photographer like what is he gonna think who do you think you are you ain't got nothing book sweetie like take the wedding and run but he you know he wasn't part of this conversation but of course I'm thinking what is he gonna think if I turn away this wedding but at the same time I needed her to put a value if I would have come back and said aah thousand dollars is what it is perfect I said she can have my services for a thousand dollars then I put a value on the cost of the digital negatives because I had to be some sort of level of association with um with her wanting me because I feel like when we shop we put more value on the things that we spend more money on it's just that simple you buy a sweater from like tj maxx or ross for twenty dollars you liked the sweater but you buy the same sweater at you buy the same sweater at like norge trump aren't even marcus well then you're keeping it in the little sleeve that it came in your keeping the tags and the extra button it's just the value that so associated with the cost of what you're bringing to the table what happens she came back she reorganized her budget for the wedding and she ended up booking me for fifteen hundred dollars she appreciated me more because she had spent more for me and of course we think five hundred dollars what is that in the grand scheme of a wedding planning but five hundred dollars for her particular budget which I'm guessing for the entire wedding was roughly around eight thousand dollars five hundred an extra five hundred out of an eight thousand dollar budget is a lot of money and so for her to appropriate that for services does mean a lot so keeping that in the back of your mind a crazy thing happened during this time was that she had twelve bridesmaids may very first bright had twelve bridesmaids and I call them my jay star cheer squad because what happened at the time was I didn't have a website I couldn't afford a web sight but I did have a photography bog and on this photography block I was really really it's still up there's on my current block if you go to the link section there's a link to my old dog and I want to take that block down it is so I mean god it's embarrassing it really really really is revealing to what I went through like the oh my god I'm so scared I have to shoot today why won't anybody hire me oh my gosh sick this's what jd and I did for valentine's it's the most ridiculous block on the face of this earth I will leave it up there because I want to show people I didn't have it together I had no idea which way was up but I struggled just like everybody else to kind of get my voice and put my feet firmly on the ground what happened was these girls started following the block why I have no idea where we could that we're reading where my mom and my husband and my husband was like on like every third day of the week like he's like you couldn't possibly have anything interesting to write about a little did he know so there I am writing this blogged and wanted the first one of the I'm jumping all over the place okay so just to clarify I'm running two different computers I have my computer here and then I'm running the creative life computer so I am like trying to like balance both of them um before we get into like the blocking and all that good stuff I want to talk about what the main thesis of today will be today's main thing will be marketing your brand um again this goes back to the philosophy that I didn't have much to begin with but I knew that if I started so the way that a lot of times new photographers like myself wanted want to start is we want to get the nice gear I want to get the best cameras we wantto work with the best camera bags want to have the nicest computer so we go to all the things that we think tangibly will make us legitimate right but the way that that's the pyramid the pyramid is structured so that the very the very most important thing at the very top of the pyramid that well tiny triangle is our gear and then the next one might be r um our computers and then maybe a car camera bags and things that eat your things that you could brag about the swag that you keep your eyes on the target reforms what do you shoot with at the bottom of your signature it's like issue with the kennedys for like five d mark to no one's like you way want to do that because somehow it legitimizes us what happened was I wrapped a twenty for over a year and a half I shot almost my entire portfolio in the first two years was on the twenty that's a pro sumer camera that's like that almost I mean when I would go to weddings when I first started shooting weddings the guests to have nicer cameras than me and I'm just like oh how embarrassing but what do you d'oh listen you're shooting on p mode I'm shooting on may well I could do more with my twenty then you can do in p mode so thank you I mean at least that's what I tell myself I don't know maybe it didn't work for other people but it works for me so basically this is what we're going to talk about today turning that pyramid upside down because the thing that we put at the very bottom of the pyramid in this preconceived notion and structure of what we do is photographers we keep ourselves at the very bottom but if you flip the pyramid upside down you put yourselves over the top and the very thing that matters the least is the very thing that we actually want to use the quarters from of our business which is our gear but listen at the end of the day you confront a camera you could rent a lens you can even borrow your sister's computer you cannot borrow a rent your brand you cannot borrow a rent the presentation that you put out on the web and that is what selling people that's a changing dynamic of this ever changing industry so we're gonna talk about today so um what like I said when I started out I was looking for um a way to stick out from the others I would look on the internet now would see these amazing branded for talk rivers aimed I an undergraduate school I studied business administration so I knew branding and I understood it from like a macro level like how big companies like heinz and nordstrom and pedigree how they bring to themselves but I didn't know how to do it for me a girl who had no money like I said I just got out of law school I just got married I worked part time and jd was with this start up company that was literally paying him in like pesos and oranges everything I don't know where they were really saying please work for free I'm not even exaggerating so like our nightly like our date nights were seriously I'm not even exaggerating talk about we go through the drive through and it's like with four dollars and forty nine cents we'd go home with dinner that's kind of held life wass we didn't have very much money and so I was looking to other people and to be quite honest and I don't know if you feel the same way but where I was I would look and I would see the studios that they had and I would see the cars that they drove and um I would see how many sample albums they had and I'm thinking that's something you guys have a library of sample albums and I don't even I can't even afford to have one you know and I will not I always tell the story but whatever it never gets old to me there was a photographer that I fall what anyone is blocking just took a snapshot of his desk because he was talking about something else completely unrelated to his post but what I saw in the corner of his picture I took the picture he took it into photo shop and I enlarged the photo and I sat there and I counted how many cf cards he had was like one too three and I lost count after like twenty five and I'm just like I have to I was like I could never compete with him I can never compete with him and it was more along these times where I realized I can't win at the game you're playing so I'm gonna create my own game and if I win at my own game the playing field will be equal and that's the foundation on which I stand that is why atomic people on the interweb don't like me that is why I don't care my thighs or my plane pieces you know and it is what it is you create your own game don't let other people create the game for you you have your own he says you make up your own di how I first started was a lot from word of mouth now we're going to go back and revisit the idea of the twelve bridesmaids the twelve ladies in waiting they became the j star cheer squad so they had followed the blawg up until that point now the block at this point um was again like I had mentioned really kind of pathetic remember this is christina and danny's wedding was the first wedding that I shot on my own if they had followed the block they would know that every once in a while I was second shooting with other people but for the most part all the posts were related to getting a new puppy my husband in what I ate for dinner loblaw boring boring I would go outside and I would shoot with his orange tree that we had I mean boring boring boring and then I would talk about the gifts that I got oh I got some like tropical sea scrub I'm sick and I'm watching lost how is that professional how is that anything photography related and it's not and I feel like that actually served as the foundation of my business the banalities of my life but would actually like set me apart in a sea of professional sameness I was a little blip on the radar that was kind of different and some people found it refreshing and some people found it ridiculous it doesn't matter for the people who found it refreshing it was a good thing for me for the people who found it ridiculous they stopped following me great perfect awesome no be word of mouth came a lot from the web but not in the ways that we traditionally think it would be these are people who would read my block but most of my audience remember the time there's not my odd my audience like all twenty of them you know uh they weren't probably getting married however what was happening was like if they came back to my block and at the time now I blogged about everyday at the time back when I first heard about it I was blocking round three times a week and when they would come back they would feel like they were having a conversation with somebody on the web I became the strange friend to them and in a way whenever they heard that somebody was getting married the first person they thought up with me not because he thought it was a great photographer because they felt like they were referring a friend and the way that people can vouch for you when they feel like they know you personally is very different than saying I saw this one wedding photographer at my cousin's wedding couple years ago I could get you to come I could getyou contact vs there's this photographer who has this really cute dog and she's totally random but she likes lost you know it's like to me that's a stronger recommendation because that person sounds like they personally no meat that was how the base of the structure turned out to be the twelve bridesmaids started talking to their friends and saying all we read this block or have you checked out this blood they were not in the market necessarily to get married but they had friends who were in the market of getting married that's how a lot of it started in the beginning I booked my first ten weddings on my block alone I didn't have a website because I couldn't afford it but I feel like I took what I had and they made it work but I will say the minute that they got a website for my business completely change and it's about a homely face but we'll talk about that in a bit um people want to know how do I get my clients now and strangely enough nothing has changed from the beginning of my business to where it is now people find my business you're only one of two ways and that is on the web that is through my block and it is through my website I prefer actually them finding me through my web site it's a stronger position representation of who I am as a professional I want them to first see who I am and legitimacy on the web that's a very very very big thing somebody once said that your website is your hand shaking your bog is your voice I want a really soft voice and a really firm handshake so when somebody first comes to see me I want them to see well this girl is legit she's a professional but I want the block to be the personality of who I am as a business how do I get clients today still remained the same they only find me on the web in fact my business cards don't have my phone number and I know that this is I know that some people think that's crazy that's ludicrous and it probably is but you guys hear me talk now right I annoy myself with along the voice if somebody would call me I'm just keeping it real please like oh don't seem that bad tweets your voice is fine no no it's not okay look I know I have this hyena pitch laugh I get it it's totally fine but if somebody were to call me and very um and I am easily excitable clearly so girl calls me and she's getting married just talking to better address and I'm like oh my god your dress and you're getting married here oh my god it's like who I cringe it's the most unprofessional uh personification of meat possible the most professional the most contained the most control for me is on the web that our first interactions are via email once I have all her information once I know where she's getting married once I know her wedding date I can then call her if she wants me to call her and I can't calm so you're getting married at the ritz that's so nice to hear awesome tell me a little bit more about your dress I then have the ball in my possession and I'm in control somebody catches me off guard I'm just like totally out of my game my game looking I talked like I have swag game like I have game anyway for the game I percent I have um so that's what I do that's how my kind that's how clients are contacting me if a client um I used to have my phone number my website which is totally fine and if I get referrals from other people and their friends are calling me on the phone um they'll most likely leave a voice message and when I called them back I tell them to please visit my website and send me an email because I want to get all that information again I want to play to my strength I want to make sure that the brand stays intact that brand is continuous communication via the web and quite frankly I'm not a phone person so I don't really want to attract a client who needs constant communication via the phone because there were only you know so many hours in the day and if I spend twenty minutes with four clients in a day that is over an hour yes over now I would like to do the math it's over an hour of communications and sure twenty minutes isn't a lot but what if those twenty minutes came from clients at one even my own what if what if they couldn't afford need to begin with and it's twenty minutes I shall never get back that is theoretically digging into my personal time with my husband and with my dog that's how I try to contain the brand um more than what's most important is knowing who your client is and I wish I had known this early on when you're first starting it's hard to really know who your client is because at that point you just want to work you just wanna get busy you just want to hit the ground running but as you as you build your business it's really important for you to tea dr diagram literally of who the person is you're trying to procure for your business if you don't know what you're trying to get nobody else will and you'll I have some clients we really like some clients you are kind of mixed about you don't really know and some clients you absolutely feel are totally bad fit for your business but that's nobody's fault but your own the less of you that you have out on the web the last people we really know about you they'll just think she does a good job he takes these pictures he's my photographer he takes these pictures and he isn't within my price range good fit let's go for me I felt like the more that I put myself out on the web I was giving people reasons to not like me that's my absolute number one goal please you have so much information for you to make an educated decision about how you feel about me if you don't like me on the web I guarantee you you probably won't like me in person because I'm like that muchmore not just in real life so having said that what do I put it on the web I put out a lot by the time a client is actually coming to me she's not necessarily feeling like she doesn't know me should you know it's not my dog she knows what my husband she knows what my faith and my family she knows where I went on vacation some people find that creepy I don't by the time the client is coming to me she's not asking me so I don't know if you guys have met with clients they print out this twenty five questions from the not about home that you have tio you know it's just like whoever invented that list like seriously need to be harpoon I am like like what questions are these you know it's like of course if we bring other print out and when I first when I first started they would bring up the print out and they would be like what do you wear on the wedding day and I'm just like bathing suit I wear nice help it you know it just like do you have back up here do you have a second shooter do you have insurance like whatever these things maybe well what happens is if anybody wants to do enough research on my block when I post a picture of behind the scenes of me and jd at work why do you think I'm doing that yes teo like to personalize what we do professionally but at the same time I want people to know what I'm wearing to the wedding I want people to know what jd is wearing toe wedding so they can't ask what do you wear you know that j d wears three pieces called three piece role um some people think it's ridiculous that I request that he dresses so nice listen I want himto look like a guest at the wedding with a really nice camera I would prefer sometimes I totally missed the mark this past weekend I thought it looked cool and then I was downloading j d's cards and he took pictures of me and I seriously looked like austin powers on crack a ruffled shirt I was just like oh my god why didn't anybody tell me I look so awful I mean I was in a really nice venue and I seriously looked so I don't think I was in a halloween costume I'm not like I'm gonna post pictures just to show you how ridiculous I look anyway so those two things what am I putting on the web who is my second shooter I'm so glad you think I'm funny look we're gonna talk the whole time for friday some going shopping I had don't you think it's cute and then when you see the picture is gonna be like oh my god a ridiculous yeah I just I'm just letting you know I'm totally kidding where the referee shirt and rock it out if you know the old shirt you're fine like I look good in my shirt um also people asked if I have a second shooter no I'm sorry people no longer ask if I have a second shooter because I always talk about who my second shooter is I'm always talking about the things I'm trying to um preemptively ends our questions and personalized those questions on the web it's fine too if you just want to put like questions like questions I'm frequently asked and so any time somebody asks you just like I put that on the web array and you could use it as an addendum to your website or you can use it as an addendum to your block either way for me being able to personally those types of questions on the web helps define who my client is I talk about the shows that I watched on tv some people would absolutely positively hate the fact that it watching jersey shore I don't hear I actually like that show I like the situation I like me some smoky leave me alone I'd put it on the web because guess what I'm not going to attract somebody who doesn't find that equally as and horrifically as amusing as I d'oh that's o k if you like j d like to watch the history channel and nova you're probably not your photographer like I'm not even lying like the soundtrack to meet like whenever I haven't saw him you know like last night I couldn't sleep because I was so nervous I had taken a sleeping pill and I still couldn't sleep and I'm like oh my god jade is like jumping from the history channel and I like to think of the history channel cause I don't like esso anyway I put this stuff out on the web so that I can figure out who people are so people can figure out who I am I talk about um the anniversary gifts that I get for my husband and talk about the jeans anywhere with shoes that I love I'm putting stuff out there to make people feel something about me I'm either trying to connect with people or in trying to repel people if you don't like me please don't bother contacting me and I'm so happy to see that now my clients I'm we're shooting twenty four weddings this year which is where I wanted to stay I want to shoot between twenty three and twenty five weddings throughout the year we're shooting twenty four this year and I'm so excited to say that all of my rights I could go out to dinner with him but even go shopping afterwards if he wanted and I feel like not necessarily that that's the goal for you and not necessarily that I would go out to dinner with him or go shopping with him but the idea is if they're spending one of the most important days of their lives that there's finished with somebody that they enjoy somebody have a lot of commonalities with because at the end of the day I only have one may nineteenth two thousand eleven available I want to spend it with somebody who I really genuinely like and who I want to feel a connection with weddings are so emotionally driven that if I'm maurine acid into day emotionally I feel like I do a better job and the more I like people the more it manifest itself positively in that manner what is the pre contact experience so what we're talking about here is what we've been talking about pretty much the whole time pretty contact with me verbally either the the phone or through a meeting what is their pre contact experience um part of the brand is an experience when they go to my website and they see me the first thing that somebody goes to when they go to my website is they see me talking directly into a camera and I say hi welcome to justin starr thanks for stopping by I'm talking directly to the viewer because I wanted to send me any type of she's noticed she you know has won many awards and she wears like you know I've never been I'm not I'm not a member to these like photography organizations so much and like one time I went and we're walking on with like medals and like ribbons that they had won in their pre competition and I was like it was like a couple people that look like run dmc because they had like four or five what is this you know I'm not I don't ever want to make it feel like somebody's trying tow hire an artist I do I do to a large extent like yes I love what I do and I like creating pieces of art for my clients but I'll be the first to say I'm not an artist I'm not you know wearing a braying like thin cigarettes you know it's like let me get a feeling for this wedding no I'm there to do a job to do a job well they want you to like me and I want to break down any type of business see transaction to scare you away it's like welcome to my store front this is my online store front welcome to my home sit on my couch welcome to my studio sit here on the studio and let's just checked on the web what is your pre contact experience what do yu are websites look like when somebody goes your website are they getting like harp music are the getting script he font are they getting a third person narrative of your bio when everybody knows you wrote the bio you know like nee kirk's first held hera out of the booth develops film when his grandfather's personal lab it's like oh my gosh if I was hiring the eight year old nate parks who held his first thirty five millimeter that would be fine but I'm hiring the nate of now I'm hiring the nate who was married and he was having a baby and holds a camera and jumps in star idaho that's the name I want to hire how are we presenting ourselves on they're like yes it's her it's so great for us to have great photos and that's why I want everybody to strive for but at the end of the day the thing that's really gonna be your best selling point which is what people shy away from is you and okay I just felt myself getting all like puerto rican hold on okay I need to clarify real quick as a side note I talk very like authoritatively like my way or the highway I was born this way like I came out and I was telling my mom like you did it wrong I talked like this but I don't mean it at all to be like I'm right and you're wrong I just did it this is how I did it and I'm sure people disagree with it and that's fine so just take everybody there and be like that's just jazz and talking like that but I don't ever mean it like to be like authoritatively it's just my opinion okay so that's like the pre contact experience and what you want people to feel about you when they go to your blogged what are they seeing are they seeing like three week lapses in between posts are they seeing like uh here's john and jane's wedding all of the pictures do the talking really really like you are not there on the wedding day like you can't see to snow ice sentences about your clients who just spent a portion of their wedding day budget on you and of course I write too much whatever I get it you know it is what it is I write for those who are not familiar with my block I write stories about the client's whenever I indeed with him on an engagement session or in a wedding I am describing what the day looked like I'm describing things that on ly manifest themselves as a person who was present on hair day you're hiring me for my perspective of that day and people often ask oh jasmine I'm not a writer I'm not good at it it's hard guess what so is photography but you learned how to do that you know it's like how can you say this is another point of differentiation on the web they could've hired you and they could have hired five other photographers how how much of their investment is worth your time to write something nice about them I have something called the three and three rule uhm ideally you write three nice things about the wedding day and three nice things about the client and if you make one sentence about each thing so for instance oh let's let's use lauren billy so laura and billy's day was rainy but they got married in a chocolate factory so that made their love extra sweet the pond is totally intended um laura walks down the aisle and the drapes were drawn and the nineteen forty style bay windows exposed the back of her beautiful dress and billy saw her the day before but he saw her as if through a new lands as she walked down the aisle the three things about the wedding the thing that makes billion and laura special is that he could knows how to make her laugh in a way that her nose crunches and makes her look extra cute and they met in college and she was washing her car and he just saw her and her short jean shorts and during the toasts her dad brought out her old teddy bear and reminded her to make sure that she sleeps tonight and visit her husband if you were to write that's not creative a little a little if you would write one sentence about those things that six sentences total six sentences is a paragraph you just want a paragraph about that wedding day and I don't write for photographers I actually know that a lot of photographers don't read the block we'll just go to pictures which I'm fine with I'm not writing it for anybody else bought my clients but laura's dad when he read if he were to read the block after I want him to know that I was there and I was paying attention I saw you I saw her I saw what happened there that is how you make yourselves really really really different jasmine you're making the internet cry oh uh okay good I'm just like barbara walters I probably them cry because I was trying to be and like you know when you see something cry and then you just cry that's probably the experience okay one last thing and actually I think we're kind of running behind woo okay how can you live with yourself when we go back and we talk about things like clearly you guys now know the backstory what happened like I didn't have much I didn't know which way was up but still clearly I was able to still somehow have people trust me to document the wedding day how can you leverage yourself my my things that I felt like leverage me how I was different was the fact that I liked to write so I use that to my advantage not everybody likes straight so that might not be your advantage um I felt like my name people ask if it's a stage name or a biological named justin starr is my name it's a biological name and my twin sister is bianca flower I walked away with a better name my mom was a hippie so yes it is my name but I felt like it worked very well for the business so I will actually use a large part of my name as part of the branding um another thing was that I used my personal experiences as having just got married when I first started looking weddings I got married just about a year or less than a year when my bride's getting married so I could talk to them about the things that they're talking about or when I'm blogging about things my target market is brides between twenty eight and thirty for I know that about my brights now because of where I am us uh priced I'm really not so much getting the younger brides anymore I priced myself a little bit out of that market but now I know where my target market lies so I'm within that I'm within that age demographic so that is how I'm leveraging myself on the web as well what can you do delivered yourself on the web how can you manifest the things that you're really good at in a way that would connect with other people now victoria loves her cats we all know victoria look but how can she how does how is that at all relatable to wedding photography it's not unless she dresses her cats up like a bridegroom ah um but really what I think she could do would be to use that to personalize who she is as a photographer what she does as a person and I feel like that is how people are going to connect with her and if there are other people who like cats as much as victoria does they will instantly like her as a byproduct of that I know that some of my bride's when we meet first meet with them they'll bring gifts for polo not every bright but enough rights if they like dogs they're bringing him like a little sprinkles sprinkles up here oh no I'm here like you guys are seattleites or something well anyway and some help or they would have this cupcake place called sprinkles and they make dog treats as well and so sometimes people will come and will bring toe sprinkle cupcake dog streets for polo or they'll bring him a little shirt or something had I not been so personal on the web had I not had I not been so obsessed with my dog I don't know if they would have connected with me on that level are you using anything to help people connect with you on the web that's the one thing toe really really really um think about um people always ask um in the beginning if I ever regret having posted something that was too personal and my answer is always no I wasn't I didn't regret it then so I'm not going to regret it now seeing how my life has changed and sometimes people think well what is too personal or what is everybody has their own barometer I happened to put a lot out there and it doesn't necessarily bother me because again I am a really like black or white person I want you to like me and like me and talk about you talk about me as your friend I want you to not like me and like make snarky comments on twitter I am okay so jake he's gonna be sending me evil eyes like called it oh uh he's like so politically correct one thing my best friend and I in high school um my best once in high school are still my best friend still to this day my sister's getting married in two weeks and all of us are going to get together for her wedding and I'm like so excited but one thing we always talk about k I r keep it real keep a room that's the one thing that you guys walk away if that's what you take back to like open hagan and canada and london on like holiday holiday got it not vacation holiday that's what you guys take bac k I r keep it really if somebody is not going to like you it's better that they not like you for everything you are and the person you are trying so hard to become which you are not really I suffered from that when I first started I wanted to be extraordinarily professional and I so wasn't there and the minute I just let it go and I'm like hey listen I would rather you not like me for me being one hundred percent myself do it rocket out k I r keep it really if I am annoying you I'm talking too much if I'm too loud okay do as we're shooting if I am not giving you this shoot I'm sorry not the wedding but tomorrow as we're shooting as I'm demonstrating what I'm doing if you don't feel like I am addressing what you need as a photographer okay I r if I'm not helping you there's somebody on the web it's gonna identify with each one of you for some different reason if you if I'm not giving you what you need I'm not giving the people on the internet what they need either so like jasmine I don't know this I don't know that whatever the case may be you ask me they are um here is a block post that I had written right when I first started this is like back in february of two thousand six why am I such a chicken I swear I should just lay an egg to complete this metamorphosis I mean the chicken and I both share entities like feet breasts and pony breeding orifice is so if I sprouted feathers tonight I wouldn't be surprised I need needed to be willing to go on a limb and ask people if I could take their pictures I mean I know couples who are engaged so why can't I bring myself to ask them if I can snap their engagement photos for crying out loud I wouldn't even charge them so what's stopping me my fear of rejection of incompetents of embarrassment I need to do this I just need to this was written in two thousand six and two c how much I just put out their toe admit openly I'm really scared and I totally don't know what I'm doing and I still managed to book weddings that's I think one end of a very far inspection if you it is okay to every once in a while say I'm scared I'm putting myself out there people will respond so much more to you because of that I was speaking last week in st louis on somebody said nobody's ever leaves comments on my vlog how can I get more comments and I'm like well I don't know how you get more comments I don't know if it's a strategic thing but then I asked her well when is the last time you were too personal post and she was like silent she's like I think I'm gonna do one next week the part of the reason why I asked that question is because when we go through art galleries when we look at anything that inspires us it's not like we're writing you know hey great you know dear photographer who was portrayed out in the getty museum you did a great job congrats we don't do those types of things what we respond to a cz other human beings our commonalities between us we're all scared at some point in time we're all happy at other points in times we're all angry at some points in times we're all scared um I follow I kind of a chase and I had this discussion he doesn't call himself a blogger I call myself a blogger I first was exposed to the blogging world when I was in law school and used blogging as a way to escape I would read about other people's lives and I connected with the strangers in ways that I didn't it was possible and I still read those same log still to this day my google reader is most of it is not photographers it's just people who like to write because I like to read and thiss other person who actually resides in canada I've never met him I think he's hilarious and he just I decided to write a personal post about the loss of his father that he's still reeling from four years earlier he didn't do it all emotional he just said he thought about his father he saw his cat bathing in the sunlight and he realized he might lose his cat soon which remind him of his father you start to cry I'm not a cat person but I lost my grandfather I almost lost my mom you know that feeling of loss and I connected with a complete stranger that so much so that if I were seen on the street I'd be like hey I know you you kind of sort of want people to connect with you on that level and I guarantee you I speak about these things I spoke in st louis last week about connecting of the web and I've gotten like I don't know quite a few e mails probably in the seven to fourteen range of people said the next day I wrote about x and x being like anything the fact that they like grilled cheese and peanut butter that's crazy weird they liked it they blogged about it and she's like I got four five comments that's awesome and here she is trying to struggle for to have people comment on her photography when she knows people are going and yet she blogged about this peanut butter and grilled cheese thing that's totally random and she gets four five comments on that why people have a connectivity to it either I had that as a baby or you are straight gross either way people are feeling something about it nothing out there don't put anything up there you would regret but put something out there that would help you connect with other people and I mean this both on the block and in um on your website a little bit more about what sitting a bit did you guys have questions right now I feel like I'm talking a whole bunch yes me right now do you find you get most your clients from your blogger from your website could you talk about how you want to direct them to your website but do you find you get most people from your blogger website do you think well if it's a random like generated internet search like google I will get it in my block but if it's a word of mouth from a client it's definitely from my website and so um actually I do feel that the clients I book and higher percentages are coming from past clients is client clients is I'm making my own words clients fancy no clients come from past clients so um any time a client is referring me most often they're sending them to the website which is what I want and there's a higher percentage of booking because this other bright is talking directly about me and she says jasmine is this justine's thatjust insisted to go to her website most of time they're saying go to my website and that's where I feel like it's an easier thing I um book about fifty percent of my bride sight unseen and that's coming directly from word of mouth I like booking my clients without having to meet them because the more it takes me about forty five minutes to get ready to go to the meeting and then I'm fifteen minutes from the studio where I meet my clients when they meet with the clients about forty five minutes to an hour and then you see fifteen minutes to get home that is if I'm doing my math correctly two hours and fifteen minutes on added to the cost of their wedding collection regardless if they booked me or not that's two hours and fifteen minutes out of my schedule two hours and fifty minutes less profitable on the bottom dollar for their event if I can book the wedding that's having sight unseen I'm two hours and fifty minutes more profitable on that I'm running a business as much as I am trying to be creative and I feel like specifically with what we do in our nature photography you need to make you need to make money and a lot of times people are just what you want yes yes yes and it's just like at the end of day you're paying them to shoot the wedding we need to stay away from that did that answer the question that was like really roundabout answer victoria I just started a block like maybe a month ago I did it because I read your vlog a lot and I think your block is awesome and I'm like okay I she's convinced me I have to start a blogger I have like you know maybe two or three followers I don't know how many people actually read it like my mom and rates defend and you know some of my friends but how do you like if you bring yourself back to the twelve bridesmaids like how did you get them and all their friends and stuff interested enough in your block to follow you and start commenting and um I I don't have a concrete answer for that because I can only talk about what I did what I did was I just talking I just talked about my life like that was it I gave enough people reasons to feel like they were my friends like yesterday's block post for this particular week I talked about going to st louis but not did I not I didn't just say I went to st louis to speak to a great a bunch of great people that the pictures of the talking I talked about the experience leading upto us actually doing what I wanted to do in st louis which was so stupid I had to see the st louis arch I'm like oh my god I've never cared about the art but the minute I went to st louis and I saw in the singular commercial I was like I have to see the arch like I don't care and jd is just like you're not a tourist you're not a trusting person I'm not like you know I'm not gonna go see the space needle you know I mean god bless it for all that it is but I don't know I'm just not going to do is not what I am but god this arch I got it in me and I'm like we have to go to the art and j d's like it's going to cost us this and feels time mobile lines like no I have to see the art that was the story leading up into the block post what I just did was a personalized something that could be kind of ok here's another thing I would keep a really I just say stuff and then sometimes I'm just like I wish I had said it but whatever I'll say what it is sometimes if you if I read other blocks and this other photographers who spoke at an event and it caught sometimes kind of scenes self congratulatory that is that a word that's a lot of syllables I'm really self congratulatory so it sounds like I did this I did that meaning me it sound like they're warming up for choir practice I I mean it's like oh my gosh I would hate to be that kind of person so how can I not be that person and allow people to connect me on away them most photographers might not be able to most photographers might not be able to speak at the st louis shot party once we primarily because this is the very first one how could I make it seem so that people can still identify with the story look what I did it's hey I had this crazy urge to go see the art and I happen to be there and spoke to a group of photographers anyway that you could personally something that's business related I think is always beneficial and I totally mean it's on the website too and talk about my website in a bit personalized personalize personalize personalize that is a huge part specifically I had a conversation with chase about this yesterday he said is this applicable in all genres of photography and I don't know I don't know if it would work as well with commercial photography because at the end of the day they're just like wasn't it's cool they have a dog but we want you know for its bottom dollar can you do the job for me I have twenty five clients I need to make sure that we are connected on a very personal level brides are not our booking out of emotion we know this brides make all kinds of excuses to fudge with their budget to ensure that they have what they need how can we do that and not make it seem so business e and make it seem like hey I'm here because I care about you and you only do that if I personally person location through presentation presentation that's a good word okay let's talk a little bit about social media and draining um are you guys cool we take a break like in a little bit after this section okay I have a a break schedule that too but I just don't know if we're actually gonna make it there I just have one question yes yes um so you talked about you know if your professional and personal izing I'm on the other end of the spectrum ones I'm just starting in photography right and so I've been writing a vlog that's very personal for a while and I'm kind of struggling as to how do I bring it to being professional and starting to did the photo business innit and get my clients to see me as a professional and still keep that personal side that I already have you need to start posting professional things you know out here while you're in seattle those post should be all professionally driven yes I did have a personal aspect of it but the fact that you know out of all the people who who made videos and contributor videos yeah you were picked that's that's a big thing and I think it shows like a promising thing about who you are professionally you're gonna wanna post pictures after laura and billy's wedding knows him as a professional aspect of who you are and you go back to copenhagen set up a shoot a lot of times people struggle with having portfolio we're gonna set up a shoot it costs a little bit of money but you're going to be able to showcase you in a professional manner go to photographer meetings that are free bring a point and shoot camera take a picture of yourself in somebody's meeting you're being professional special I did that it shows people that you are being professional and yet very personal that's I think how you kind of create a hybrid and I think that people want to know that there are indian you're small company research and development they want to know that you're reinvesting in your business and not just buying another lens because to them they're just like one lens does it all right right right I mean like for them if they see you going and reinvesting in you're like education they see that as like a um advantageous for their investment okay yes a lot of people have questions about prior to the first wedding photo shoot that you did where you charged fifteen hundred yes the time between when you decided you wanted to do it and you got that photo shoot are you gonna get into that later um no it's actually really question to answer now so I first picked up a camera in january I got onto o s p photography for him and I was super scared anytime you get until like some type of online media think you don't want to come out and say I don't know what I'm doing and I'm super scared this particular forum was coddles people like me everybody was warm and fuzzy there was no snarky people on this forum and I would comment on other people's photos and occasionally I would post a photo of my own for criticism and feedback and what happened is you create this friendship this online community of friends as crazy as it sounds and if you've been on a forum you'll know exactly what I'm talking about if you have another form you're gonna think I'm a straight trip in either way get on the forum didn't know what I'm talking about so you kind of create these like cyber friends and then in may of two thousand six a photographer put up a posting and he said he needed a second photographer and he had seen me on the forum contributing he felt like he knew me why I was contributing on the forum and uh my my dad's a pastor and my dad spoke at his church and he's like uh you seem ok out of all the people because of course everybody wants a second shoot so he puts up overseeing and says I need a second shooter and so many people like you second consecutive aiken talking shoot and I put it my k I get second chute and because I had contributed in the form of four and because he has a prior experience pileup of knowing my father which is how the world works it's just crazy little connections he invited me to come along with him so I shot my very first I second shot my very first wedding in may of two thousand six that was the very first portfolio piece he didn't pay me it was fine I got to put the pictures on my block it was what it wass and then um when other people would ask on the forum hey how did jasmine do like in those little private messages that nobody else sees I hope hey how did I guess he said that I was okay and so then that opened the door his vouch for me as a person I don't think I mean clearly I honestly I don't think he was watching me for me as a photographer the pictures were okay they were okay I didn't solve a job they weren't breathtaking they weren't awesome they were just okay and as the second shooter I always equate the second shooter as the grout to the tile main photographer is laying the tile the ground actually seals everything so I just had to kind of be there okay you had to do an ok job and so he vouched for me to other photographers on the forum and then um along king I'm actually gonna talk about that too so I'm talking about second shooting and stuff in a bit but I shot a second shot my very first wedding in may and a first shot my first wedding in october so that's the professional spectrum that I had before going on my own and then going out on my own after going out on my own I didn't really second shoot because I booked so many weddings the next year that I was booked so and how we went the second shooting gigs did you do before you did that first wedding um I don't have a concrete number but I'm guessing it's in the ballpark of her own twelve yet but we'll get into that too