Lessons

Lesson Info

Branding, Business, and Budgets

I want to talk a little bit about what has happened at lunch because um so it's kind of like when you get a new car and you never noticed your car on the road until you start driving your car because if you started driving a red honda civic all you see are red honda city it's on the road so here I am the fifth day of a rainy experience and all I am doing is thinking about branding like branding running running and I didn't have to look hard because when we went on a lunch break we walked out and I had a complete from one to ten branding experience for those of you not on the internet we have our lunch catered to us and we've had different food we had mexican food yesterday they brought in but today I think because it's our last day they wanted to treat us extra nice they had a personal chef calm and make us lunch as I walked out my first experience with this chef's brand I liked his food before I even tasted it why because kenna and susan who parked who participated in other creative l...

ive events said oh you're gonna love his food he's so amazing already I had not even tasted the food I knew I was gonna like it why I trust susan and I trust kenna we have similar likes and tastes when he offered to serve my food I said sure I will take all of it and before you even walked away before I even walked him to the table his table I took a bite and I was like I liked it they had set the tone for what I was an experience beyond that he also makes his own ice tea can support herself some icy she said he makes the best iced tea quite frankly I would've tasted his tea and thought this is good iced tea but because she said it was the best I think you're right this is e I have seattle so what happens on then when we go to the table we all sit there and it's an interesting thing it's not just your mom and pop spaghetti that he's bringing out he made cem chicken and jamie said he tasted mustard on a roll my eyes surely there's no mustard in the chef of course says there's a little dijon okay he's right there's a little dijon and what this was and this is goes back to the chef truly knowing his brand it was he was a division of his brand I just feel like if he could do that in such a small level this is classic braden case they are telling me how good he is before I even tasted just like guests at the wedding I hope are telling laura and billy that their photos are good before they even see them so one thing I wanted to get into and I think that the class would be far better at talking about because I feel like you guys are more in a place where a lot of our viewers are is talking about pricing and specifically when I first started the notion of pricing and how we would deal with that effectively now I did I thought I'd already spoken about it but I think what it happens I spoke about it on the interview with chase a few days before so when I first started my wedding when I first heard shooting weddings I got the wedding as a referral and the bride came to me and she wanted ten hours of coverage she wanted two photographers she want indicate she wanted an engagement session and she also wanted the disk of digital negatives all for a thousand dollars and I was so hungry for the wedding I wanted to do it so badly wanted to shoot it so badly but I wanted to make sure that she was also putting value on the fact that I was including the disk of digital negatives because that's all the work that we do as artists after the wedding because for us our job really does begin right when the wedding is over so I needed to make sure that I was properly putting a value on that so she could appreciate it too so I then created two packages package one was a thousand dollars ten hours to photographers and engagement session package too was all of the above plus the disc additional negatives for fifteen hundred dollars now it's easy to get stuck in in in that pricing structure and its easy tio stay there because it's safe and you will get busy but the problem where I'm from was that you could get your uncle bob photographer for around eight hundred two thousand dollars so my competition I was never being able to get out and diversified the brand in it the way that I wanted teo so as a recommendation from my wedding photographer he said um I don't think it's a bit because I was struggling should I take this wedding for thousand dollars what is it going to say about my brand and my on ly ever gonna my only ever destined to shoot thousand dollar weddings from here on out and he said to make the active decision that every three weddings and a book I was should raise my prices three hundred dollars because he said in the time that you're booking your wedding's you're you're practicing you're goingto workshops you're going you're going out shooting with your friends you're becoming better so you need teo um allocate your prices your prices should reflect how good you're getting and um and and pay back the investment that you're making in your business somehow that made sense to me and when you use my example versus other example because I did start in the market with a few other photographers and the two schools of thought she'd you charge teo effectively run out your business and get your name out there or should you charge according to your words now if I would've charged according to my worth to get into the market that I felt like I wanted to get um I probably would've charged and don't ask me why okay don't ask me why it's kind of ridiculous when I think back into it but I thought I would charge three thousand dollars that seemed like a good price to charge for where I was at that particular time that's why I wanted to but nobody knew me nobody had any type of expectation nobody was ever bringing out my name however outshoot out hustle out do as I started to shooting weddings so what happened was in two thousand six I shot my my first wedding and I shot two more weddings after that in october so I shot a total of three weddings you do the math correctly starting in two thousand seven my starting collections work one thousand three hundred dollars and eighteen hundred dollars those are the on ly two collections and every three weddings that I booked I raised my prices three hundred raise my prices three hundred well jedi knight shot thirty eight weddings are first year so you can see how much our prices change within that first year so then the question becomes well didn't you lose all your for lt's from from your earlier brides well yes of course I did but I've never really wanted to continually shoot the one thousand dollar weddings now what happens the core of our refers if you followed the math structure by raise my prices three hundred dollars every three weddings the centre core of my of my price base would be roughly around the two thousand twenty three hundred dollar range what right within their now if somebody had booked me in the middle the year and paid twenty three hundred dollars for my services and then a few months later you know her her maid of honor wants to get married and she contacts me five or six months later and during that time I had booked a few weddings and I raised my prices three hundred or six hundred dollars and she said oh well you just shot my best friend's wedding and you were five hundred dollars less I will say then well I've gone to classes I'm shooting a lot more weddings there's more demand for my services they on lee wannabe means the only thing that will happen that situation is that she will think you've gotten better you are inherently a better value her best friend made a good investment in you because her best friend paid eighteen hundred dollars and now I'm trying to charge her twenty five hundred dollars it doesn't necessarily have to work within that proportion every three weddings three hundred dollars that's not the magic number for me in southern california it worked but again southern california is a very large crazy crazy crazy market it might work every three weddings perhaps you lived in a suburb in the midwest perhaps every three weddings you raise your price is one hundred fifty dollars or two hundred dollars it doesn't matter as long as you're actively working towards creating value to what you're doing as a professional that's what we that's the conversation they don't want to get into specifics necessarily because then we go into the manu sha but I think that people would want to know how that works and that's how it worked for me and um I continually raise my prices just as a way to control how many weddings were shooting because the move her name grows the more the stronger the brand becomes the more people want us to shoot the weddings but again we only want to stay around twenty three two twenty five weddings a year and how we control that is through price so that's the conversation in a whole um do you have questions about that was that your pen to try and I'm sorry okay pressing things with one let's go okay well I don't want to spend too much time on it so how about we do like ten minutes of pricing great so I think ten minutes were roughly workout too few questions you've asked all of you know I'll try toe I'll try to get it and fast just what about the internet I guess what what we've seen previously with regard to questions around pricing is the what's included in your collections and that those types of questions definitely well the studio the studio feet is the base fee and I don't I haven't had a single client this year or even last year book on the studio feet um as the price is worked up I allocated costs towards an album and if allocated costs towards the disk of digital negatives those are priced out separately and attribute of value to them so that my clients just don't assume that just because you showed my wedding I get the disc original negatives absolutely not there's time that has gone into processing those images on there's and there's a level of money that I'm literally giving away in prince in print sales how could we attribute what that little sweets but is it starts us differently when I first started shooting weddings like I said I contributed five hundred dollars to that um at the time I wasn't shooting as many images and those looks this learning curve and they had to read the ebb and flow of my client's now um it's around eight hundred and fifty eight hundred fifty dollars for a basic wedding if people add on ours will then the cost of digital negatives has to go up as a direct reflection of how much more we're shooting and how much more is processing me outsource the cost of those I'm running a business I am trying to effectively articulate to my clients there is an inherent value in the additional images that they're getting on them the longitude that the quantity the longevity no longevity they have in printing their own and putting their own images I'm a question do you recommend new photographers or to any photographers in that sense to have an all ala carte package so that it can put a value on what really goes into the packages does that make sense yeah of course you think having a car was good I did I've always had it but again I only created I created my collections according to how I wanted to see things so some people do all l a cart and some people come with like distinct collections that include you know five by sevens and eight by tens and four by six and I just felt like I was so overwhelmed through that as a bride like when I when I was when I was meeting with photographers they said oh you get a print credit and you could apply this print credit towards prince or you could play it toward an album went gold price or digital negative and I was just like wait what and I think if you give me a prude credit but it doesn't cover an album and it doesn't comfort is what I was just all over the place and just tell me what I get but that's my personality so with me you know what you get and there's also all a carte menu I'm itemized I've itemized the cost of of everything individually so that it makes more sense to get a collection just like it's bundling it's what we're it's what we're accustomed to it what advantageous it's what makes sense if you can get on engagement album a wedding album the disc additional negatives and a large print from their engagement session great let's do that and I find that when my clients review the collections they just think that just makes sense and that's the one that they're usually always getting which is great for us which is what I want thank you can I just ask one more question how much money do you as far as your profit do you put back into your company every year you know it's different that's a really good question so my first year I'd only done three weddings so clearly I owed I owed myself money I mean it was a lot the second year I feel like we poured back in this is when we brought on jd seriously and it's time we never we've never gone in debt building the business so when he was time for jd to start shooting with me seriously we rented him a camera and we rented him a set of lens lenses so every time we booked a wedding that we wouldn't attribute a certain amount of it to buy a lens take a certain amount and file ends and so war took us a while to get out of the transition of renting to actually owning that's what happened the second year we're going to a ton of growth halfway through the second year I'd raise my prices to such a point because once you raise your prices at least in southern california two like the three and four thousand dollar range it's advantageous to add albums at that point because you're in a different market you're no longer with the people who just want to shoot to burn wedding so then I had to add albums and then that well that costed us money that I wasn't that I probably I didn't allocate for my designer and in the printing and binding so I would probably say our second year was maybe fifty percent back in the business and then the third year we had it dialed in that's when I feel like my fixed costs and just to clarify for people on the web fixed costs are costs that don't ever change per wedding I know how much money I am spending I know how much money I'm spending it outsourcing thie post processing how much I'm outsourcing to the album's ein how much I am paying for the album itself how much I'm paying for the shipping of the album um how much I am outsourcing for fulfillment things of that nature I know that number exactly and then I know how profitable I am on that particular wedding and then I take into account the cash flow I require a fifty percent retainer see so then I know that I can balance it okay I have fifty percent coming in you know two thousand ten from getting the other fifty percent in two thousand eleven this is going to affect my future cash flow things of this nature all have to come in we are running businesses not expensive hotties so knowing these figures very well in events that is definitely to your advantage jasmine I have a question you take a fifty percent retainer fee how far ahead of the wedding and then how at what point do they pay you the balance do they pay you before like the day of kind of thing or photographers takes just require like a one thousand dollar retainer fees or a number that just feels good for them and I get it because it's there's something gratifying about getting like a chunk of money right before you're about to shoot there is I get it but for some reason fifty percent makes me feel extraordinarily confident that this client is not gonna walk away from their fifty percent retainer they're going to stick with me then I know that they're very serious about what they're doing I require that immediately upon booking that's the only way that I will walk and hold the date and I require the remainder fifty percent plus eight point seven five california tax fourteen working days to the wedding that's usually the vendor the vendors so it's two and a half weeks before the wedding how about one more pressing question um I saw on there someone asked about any time sessions but you do wonder like how you're pricing is for that is it is it's not just vary based on what the session is and what it involves I don't I'm not doing too many anytime sessions anymore I've decided because of the scope of what we're doing because we're shooting twenty five weddings a year and because we're speaking in traveling that I don't do them as much I really love doing them I love them but it's not working so well for my my business model anymore but I charge all a cart for them I charge a shooting feet and I itemize it in a collection and you the shooting feet just for me to show up and shoot his ex for me to show up plus a little negative is x plus whatever I attribute for the disk additional negatives and then if they want an album it's x plus it's cost vigil negatives plus the cost of the album in the cost of the album I have allocated money for the designer I have allocated money do I have to pay low the craftsman I have allocated the cost of shipping to the client and then I have to put in cost how much how profitable do I want to be on that album that all of that is taking into consideration I have another question okay like I have in my head where I want to go in because if you can't see background stuff without with businesses but a lot of people there are winning photographers and they don't know you know fixed cost from very well cost profit cash flow whatever like where where did you learn your knowledge from andi where's a good place to go you know I'm probably not the best person ask if you have a good resource please feel free to share it I'm just a squirrel trying to get in that the simple that very simple I'm a girl that ghetto how much of my pain how much do I want to make on that and of course now fixed costs are cause it will never change this is what I just pulled out five minutes ago the cost that it that I get charged from photographers at it to edit a wedding is the same if I'm getting if I'm getting paid a thousand dollars for the wedding or from getting paid twenty thousand dollars for the wedding that cost doesn't change the cost to create a twenty page forty side album is the same if I am getting charged if I'm charging the client a thousand dollars for the wedding or one hundred thousand dollars to the wedding these air cost that don't change variable costs change I don't have too many variable costs if I had rent and I had to move if I had utility bills that are directly related to my business those were all variable my fixed costs are fixed and they have stayed the same for since the beginning I outsourced my um post processing almost from the very beginning that was a fixed cost that I had allocated within it but as I as my prices moved up I became more profitable as I went as I moved forward with the business so needing burglar wants to do you actually have a business plan did you like right out awful business playing when you started or so you said you had business background I know but what I want people to remember is that I didn't believe in myself and so I felt like if I had a concrete business planned um and I didn't execute it I will have clear clear indication of where I had failed and I just didn't want to do that so but since then since and we always sit in december I try to take all of december off I try not to do any shoots any weddings it's holiday time and that's just a time for me to be like I am don I am not doing anything this past year we picked up one because of clients coming in from out of town but that's fine um engagement session that's when we sit down and usually we try to spend new year someone new around the world and that is where we just sit down and we write everything what totally sucked this past year where did he really screw up what did we do really really really well and what do we want professionally what do we want personally and then what do we want together I think that that helps you at the end of the year you think hey you know we either could do better here we can you know change so I think that's a good place to close um I think um to encourage other photographers if you don't have a business plan don't listen to me you know tony and hear what I did just like use my mistaken go for it but if you don't have goals for the year you don't know where you're headed and you don't know how to measure your success it's okay not to be successful your first year or successful whatever your terms are profit you get um yeah profitable ok to not be right but it's okay to not be successful like what if you had listed your first do you want to shoot forty weddings and then you only shot fifteen it's okay because fifteen is still a great number but just taking in stride and writing down what your biggest goals are and what you think you're attainable goals are and read and in school we learned about be hags big hairy audacious goals lister be hags and you will be so surprised where you end up at the end of the year cool so that's a breath okay so um uh so we're gonna do to ask jasmine um oh fandango chica I know her from twitter totally good to see you on twitter um do we have any questions ready to go sure I've seen this come through um and and you've talked about it over the past several days but can you again so sort of quickly go through from mchale page what is the post post event process timeline re delivery to the clients that you touched on yesterday at the end of the day great thank you for bringing that up okay so my work flow which is really really really basic and allows me to have a life so what you guys saw um yesterday you guys saw the complete edit and that was on a hard drive um if I wasn't getting photos from you from you but which I am but if I wasn't that hard drive is what I mailed to photographers edit they start immediately on that I will then go home or and then I start working on my individual block post I will end it just like I did for the for this particular site for the site george showed earlier eighty two eighty five pictures for the slideshow of the eighty two eighty five pictures I will choose about fifteen to twenty to put on my block that fifteen to twenty or what type of photos friend brian thank you thank you I was like oh god please just be o fifteen to twenty are branded photos I wish I could take one thousand three hundred brandy photos at every wedding it's not gonna happen one day I might one day I might be able to do that and I hope that's what I strive for but that's not gonna happen once it goes on I will then create actually jd well then create a short plus site for my clients he will then upload that to facebook all of this happens on one day so once I am done with the sideshow and then I get my pictures ready for the block in the morning I will write a post I let the blob post go I then go to twitter and I write a couple cool things about the couple for instance I shot an engagement session and I wrote um what was it oh I wrote zumba a sparkly dress in a los angeles engagement session what happens our people are looking for search terms and I got new followers and just a little shot out from people who really like simba random it's ok these are people is this exposure to people I would have never gotten of course isn't high percentage maybe not but these air five six new people who found me on twitter because of this so on twitter I put that up then on facebook I will go or j t will go upload the plus sight to my client's we tagged them in that then I go to the facebook like paige I will upload just three or four pictures from the wedding I will tell your clients but in beneath on the little comment section I write to seymour of charlie and marie's engagement set los angeles engagement session please click here that is a link that goes back to the block where the clients can then see the slideshow in its entirety or if they choose to stay in facebook they can read the story and they could see the slide show that is the big hoo but it's no it's easy um it's hard work but it's easy marketing that really really really works and translate into the inn translates in today's day and age if you are afraid of hard work you're in the wrong profession you know I think it takes a lot of just diligence to do what we dio fantastic thank you um jasmine from jenny lee photo where my thoughts on boudoir and trusted trash the dress session sessions I used teo a shoot um trash address or what I call the day after sessions more often than I do now I think I I charge a bit more for my day after sessions which is why I don't think that I think I should come in much frequency as I did before I actually wanted to do a lot of day after sessions because I felt like I finally had you know an hour and a half with the bride and groom in a bright you know in a dress and I don't I don't do anything that would trash the dress most my clients were paying or three thousand dollars for a dress or even if they're paying a thousand dollars is a lot of money to go on like you know run in the beach and if you want to do that that's totally fine I have done it before we'd watch sessions I used to shoot them I just feel like the post processing on a bourgeois session takes me probably twice as long like I have to charge more because girls are showing so much of themselves and girls are the worst critics and so it requires a little bit more on my end to massage the photo farrell so I have to charge more for that and now I've decided tow on lee do it for my clients if my clients wanted to do a session I will do it because I would like to continue continue the photography process throughout the wedding spectrum so I don't take on boudoir photos for people that I don't know anymore but not I mean that's just for my business it's just for my time not for like some overarching belief if you want to look hot for your husband go head do it like a rocket out seriously now it's gonna be okay my mom is one of them a question from chat again from a mandolin what marketing taxes tactics have you tried that failed and you would never use again if any good I didn t use any forms of traditional marketing so you know you can't fail at something you don't try so I don't know that's really good advice but I didn't do magazine I didn't do online I didn't do bridal shows I didnt do radio spots so I can't really say that it doesn't work because I haven't done it but I do know that I have spent more elbow grease than than money and I feel like that has worked for me and at the end of the day like prove me wrong like I owe you how much money you spent in posting a plus site on facebook however much that cost you like I'll owe you that but very little time in just a little bit you know I think in the very beginning of just business there was also some un traditional forms of marketing that she would use and that was also that that was part of also building relationships with the vendors but she would allow other vendors to market her um and I remember I don't want to because I remember that was pretty crucial and getting the business to where is now that's such a good point like he always he does bring up like good points okay so in the beginning a non traditional form of advertising would be after the wedding what I would do I had created templates and photo shop and in these templates I would say I'll have to do is drag and drop five to eight photos from the wedding day and they were all pre designs lots I'll just drag the photos in there I would go to like say a florist website lift her logo from the website and I would put it on the template at the very bottom lower right corner output like jazz and star as indicating I had taken the photos and then I will just print twenty five by seven photos on these templates and then I'll get a white ribbon and I would tie it and I would put my little logo it print my logo on the card stock tied the ribbon outs looking a white envelope and I would mail it to the florist what I was doing I was creating marketing materials for the florist I would I could have easily putting my logo and have her flowers but it's less incentivizing for her to pass out my card if I was promoting her for free and given myself a little bit of photo credit we clearly know who shot the photos but I then promoting florist ext ex she appreciates the free marketing she appreciates her phone is being displayed I appreciate it was finally my photos are displayed in a way that I like and what did that cost me you know twenty five by seven is this very small marketing and at worst case scenario she never passes out any of them she still thinks highly of me she appreciates the gesture at minimum and that actually think you that helped out a lot so again like it just ghetto fab stuff being nice anything time you could do something nice for somebody any time you look at a coordinator a florist a deejay venue any time that people another photographer anything that people don't have bio shots like headshots on there page if you are watching on the internet john am I on your camera okay if you are a photographer and you do not have your picture on your website shame on you how can you trust other people how can you expect other people to trust you if you can't even put a photo of yourself on your website and it doesn't have to be a professional picture I actually remember going to a photographer's website and it was this picture that looked like the camera was falling in and those out of focus and all this photographer said was please forgive the photo my four year old took it of me so cute I like that photographer I liked that photographer but yet I mean we get um notices from real estate agents posted on our door the real estate agent has his photo his or her photo attributed to the note pad attributed to the magnet why do they think they're extraordinarily good looking I don't know but it's highly unlikely these air huge transactions that these people are asking you to trust a rain and a stranger please help me sell your multi hundred thousand dollars home so I could get a nice commission off then what we're trying to say is please trust me on one of the most important days of your life but I won't show you what I look like I would never hire a baby sitter having not seen a photo of that person not because I'm judgmental but because you could hell so much about what a person looks like the eyes are the windows to the soul you know and really that is so true get a photo if you have a photographer friend in your community who doesn't have a photo get together say you can buy me lunch we'll go to mickey d's you got my attention I will get a headshot for you what this does is creates good energy within the community that allows this person to trust you because you say I care about your business in fact I want to make your business look better you might take a wedding from me but at the end of the day once you're booked on that date and you get inquired for that date who do you think they're going to the wedding too you because you're nice and you care about the person not so much about their business or and both present business and the person so yeah market by doing nice things seen some couple questions come through and some people retweeting it again so k j p p or p photography can you talk about your business your business structure itself are you an llc or how in your earlier years did you get your business side in order I'm actually still getting everything in order I started off because I just didn't know any better as a partnership you know because I'm like we're partners you know I mean like clearly I'm showing you how not to do it right so yeah provider ship and we're in the process of you know getting all the paperwork and once I have everything good to go I don't want to say do this and realize oh I should have said that I will get a good plot block post ready when I feel like this is the right thing I should be talking about great now and what about insurance oh yes I have a million dollar policy because that's what most venue yeah that's almost venues in southern california require you have to send proof of insurance that you have up to a million dollars with a policy was a liability and liability and tricks and I also have insurance on my gear so two separate things question samantha chat um do any of your brides expect all of their images to be branded images since that's what they see on the block they think they think I thought might all my photos work david j brennan images you know david j took the images but he was cool I mean round it's the brand we have to understand I'm so glad this percent solution we have to understand that we are not shooting for other photographers this past weekend I wass which puts a little pressure on before the most part we are shooting for an uneducated audience it is our job to educate them to the best of our ability but beyond that the pictures that you take just by mere fact of you having the gear that you have is exponentially better then what they're getting with their point and shoot cameras we have like embrace that and know that um there are happy with their photos they real be a promise I promise you talk a little bit about what type of this is from uh twilight fairy on twitter what is the license under which the photos is that our release of the clients are under what kind of that relationship is that or listen I'm sorry the license the business um the copyright that's everything um that is um outlined in the contract but basically I let my clients print I let my my client share but they can't put it put them up on a separate site and sell them they cannot give the rights to another person to use um and if there's ever a doubt the clause in the contract says please consult me and I will get back to you within twenty four to forty hours on what the best things should be but I've never had a client um you know abuse that there are a couple times I feel like oh my gosh I really wish you wouldn't put that picture on things I d'oh but it's fine it's clearly a picture that I wouldn't like what was so special to her isn't upon her wedding l I mean so it's fine it's totally totally fine she is the master architect of how she wants a date just like yes do you have a lawyer and helping you with that kind of stuff I would definitely suggest it totally I know had a little bit of a background and so I just put together and keep on adding to it um and I recently or maybe last year added an arbitration clause to my contract because um arbitration is going to be better for me than going to court so if they my clients agree to work with me if they do something does go a ride god forbid that we would go to a nar picture are we go to arbitration yes that's a good question what do you think I'm the uh key things that each photography should have excuse me to run themselves so you know they have trouble they should have a website you little portfolio should have business cards by now what what do you think mother key things keep things for me um are so much things online because that's how that's the currency of today's day and age transactions are happening on the web um your online presence has become your storefront so make sure that your porch just left and there's flowers in the front and your windows are washed first and foremost the best way that you could sell yourself would be through a website period the end I know that there has been a uh transformation through blawg sites and I understand that and I'm speaking as um I'm gonna say it so please give me a little bit of grace I see it as a successful blogger that I have a website because that's what sold me and what personalizes me is my blogged they're two separate entities both both are important but if I had to go through one eye would go to my website it just helps legitimize who I am professionally um so the website the block having a nice business card doesn't have to be fancy but um I just don't prefer pictures and business cards but that's not there's no right or wrong it's just I'm like goes back to my brain it's not cluttered it's very fashion driven into goto fashion magazine you'll see a huge a page this big and just black letter you know jazz and star I would love that I mean that's just like you got you got to be confident like I'm so good just my name so you know I mean I'm not there that's what you see in fashion magazines so that's kind of clean effect is what I was what I like when I first started I didn't have very much money but I wanted personally stationary because I I was seeing for handwritten notes I love it that's how I communicate with clients every step of the way I talked to a girl in my church who did created memories and I said can you get skip me like black sick card stock I just want a white ribbon and can you get sick card stock with my jay star logo all it was was a black fold card and then the thin ribbon that went around this way and he had to slide the ribbon off had little jay star logo and then it was a black card that you unfold it very simple but it wasn't something that I could go to pop iris or paper source which I love I mean you give me some cards I will shop in the card I'll one we're bored and we're a target he'll go shopping and all of this in the hallmark aisle and three cards that's what I do I am the boring his person but I tell you that I have to feel that I attract capable of the same way so investing a little bit of money it doesn't have to be fancy but anything that makes it your own um definitely helps so questions just just coming in about the business but I didn't share something else that's kind of off topic you like it because we have someone named sergio and he's joining us from siberia which I thought was really cool night and he just wanted to say thank you for sharing and being such a great inspiration I love natural light but what would you do if it's so cold outside most of the air not another light would you use phil flasher just moved to l a l a is like the place and photographers if I was in that situation and it's so cold I'm assuming it's old cold because it's gray out or it's snowing out I some what we shot for the first half hour forty minutes was just window light if you could get enough window light in a ten by ten square I will give you ten poses if not more that is what I should that's what I'm telling surgery in siberia hundred percent rock window light no does create a lot of light it does beautiful craig high since we're off subject I just want to pass along an email I got um you're you're messing up the rest of our scheduling our watercolor instructor molly mara is supposed to be working on her class for next week but she says she has been spending the theo just you know wait we'll brand your water coloring experience I'll likely be tuning in on that's the thing I just want to say I've also seen comments saying I'm not even a wedding photographer or I'm not even a photographer and I'm watching this course that's great that's great but again it is applicable cross not what I am saying the idea of branding and branding and identity is applicable in so many aspects of life so go home share with your friends talk about it and I feel like I'm such a firm believer in saying things out and you know god I sound like that crazy like lady on venice beach but speaking things out into like the universe like it makes you accountable if not to the universe to the people standing next to you I want this I will openly say I have a jar that has like pennies and actually it's a five dollar australian dollar bill and it's what I'm saving for my future we're going to beach home I will say it I'm going to stay down the university odds right now in my current situation of getting my cliff home in laguna are about one in a million but they're one in a million so we're gonna keep on saving and we're going to bunting and put it out there because what it once was they went when it happens I'm full so day good and I'm going to say back in two thousand ten you know when we felt when we thought were sure straight tripping here we were just these two crazy kids trying to do something on creative life and then years later it turns out that's a well hung we're going to be so there you go right home have a question from erica monaco who was actually one of our volunteers came and helped oh thank you erica monica uh she asks have you ever been sick and are not able to shoot and what did you do or what would you recommend doing if all of a sudden on the day of the wedding okay so that's two that's it to answer give two answers so one I've never missed a shoot or a wedding because I was sick I have actually shot through I was going to say quite specifically what I was sick with but then I'm like it was him I was going when I was really really really sick on two occasions and do us show up and I brought a third shooter cover my back cover my because I am not a hundred percent but I know what the third shooter I met quite is then I know well well well take care of um secondly we have I have a small network in orange county of um photographers who I know who we all know you that if you are not booked on that wedding and this person called me on that weekend and this person calls whatever you had planned your dad disneyland beach date that's out the window you have to take that person's you have to have that person's back so it's nice to know that if I got sick I know um I can call becker I know that I know that he has my back and if you got sick and he were to call us I would hands down too whatever it took for me to shoot that waiting for him to and it's not just decorates a couple of people that I feel that confident with so good question yes um as part of the jasmine star experience with your bride's if they do come and you do meet with them do you like a pack you give them or like what that's good that's a really good question so what basically needs asking is if I have tangible items that I give my clients and I know that some photographers do and they're so beautiful that I change my prices so much they never don't wanna have that out's too much so when a client contacts me I have ah pds that he had a graphic designer designed for me on dh she gave me the illustrator file so every time you change the prices I go into the illustrator file change it compress it back down to the pdf that is what I said the client and when they open it because again but it fits my brand I know that there's another photographer who shoots film he has it's just old school beautiful appealed to him and he sends freaking gorgeous packet like I mean as a paper whore I love it I would book him just in his paper alone I love it but it doesn't work for my brand and it doesn't work for the type of client going after I'm going after the doctors I'm going after the litigators I'm going after the business people I'm going after the personal shoppers who are busy want how can open it up on their iphone how did they open it up on their piece on there factory that's what the crazy thing yeah yeah yeah whatever those things are called those handheld devices yeah so that works for my brand I saw its twitter question that was asking at this point what do you do for professional development what um I actually tried to go to um workshops or courses that are not photography related although I still am going to photographer you waited but I feel like that's not personal development that's just helping me see the world differently helped me develop more respect for our appears in the community but going outside of that any type of just I went to this um one day like workshop is just setting goals it was kind of I kind of it sometimes felt like this is look a little ridiculous but part of the registration was that we got a little notebook and so I got the notebook and and the instructor force does or asked us to write down our goals and to write down an idyllic workday and why write down an idyllic relaxing day and write down a dream day and then compare all of those days and how different are their how much over layers there because once there's an overlay consejo you embrace it this is part of part of my relaxation process or whatever and silly as it sounds the whole day I walked away thinking huh okay it's just a re calibration so yeah doing things that are outside um for that really really does help to have a good question from photo traveller and chat um do you ever have plans to write a book or any book on the business and creative sides of wedding photography I have been approached about it and um it's something that I was thinking about doing later this year but it just depends so much on our schedule you know it's I I'm a firm believer in picking one thing and doing it very very well and if I don't think that I could add on um a book and I don't know I don't know if it would ever be like a hard cover you know it probably most likely my audience is online what would make sense with being online book really I truly know that um I don't know it's just so many things got factor into it but I don't know it's funny though because you guys know like you do you have a business plan or digital business know what kind of corporation unlike all of the work in progress all these things that I should technically have done I mean if I'm authority in the field don't you think I should be authoritative and it's like I don't know what I knew I think I should get my act a little bit together before I read the book but someone wise once told me don't shit on yourself I t shirt e should right can I offer a thought on that too don't you um I've worked a lot of it so I I I'm just gonna jump in because I'm a huge believer in this you build your business around your strength not your weaknesses and people that try to fix their all their weaknesses before they start their business in the having a mediocre business I mean you know you've reached the height of your business off your strengths not because you were able to figure out how to solve one or two of the weaknesses rights if I ever write a book it's clearly not on having a visit ah may be crazy but in retrospect I don't know whatever oh the question that just came up about you and uh trish finn for uh do you give your time and your talent to charitable causes or your community that's great that is a totally good question um we tried to keep on what we do under the radar a little bit just for personal reasons but I'm really really really happy to say that uh j d and I shoot ten percent of our weddings as gifts to people who couldn't afford our services so I am a firm believer just um I'd like to give ten percent of my income just a basic principle teo charitable organizations or my church but I feel that given in light of where we are right now with our lifestyle um it is a little hard but it's also very easy I pay monthly just give a little bit here give ten percent of my month's income okay it is what it is but what is most valuable to me in my point right now in life is my time so how can I effectively articulate sacrifice if it didn't really hurt and uh time is very precious for us so us giving um ten percent of our weddings and I'm really proud to say that you can look back in my blog's and you won't know who we shot that wedding more because we shoot it like we're shooting a twenty thousand dollar wedding so that makes us I mean that makes me like really really really awesome thanks I have a question for j d from demo and chat what a deal I would like to know how you resist not taking photos jasmine all the time jasmine actually that's part of the quota uh she asked me to take a few photos of her every single wedding no we have a contest to the game though who could get the ugliest photo teo just a lot of photos of jasmine uh but but at the end of the year we have a slide show uh that she likes to put together so I always get photos actually you know what I'm not gonna sell you out but sometimes it's like I'm having a great hair day so take way e I believe and oh my god I mean seriously all the haters will roar right about now but I kind of feel like if you're having a good hair day it is going to be a good day for real like so ladies it is thank you roll my eyes but e time someone in the chat room had asked if you have someone doing your hair to come here because we do our own hair yeah we actually I'm fooling with the stylist for no I'm kidding e o d oh no no no no no no it's just a curling iron and some hair spray aqua innit no e no it's just a crow frigging a back down to some practical questions uh probably more relevant to some starters but uh what types of payment do you accept check credit card this is from john also lost a good bitch in st petersburg florida you know I only take checking cash she's that corrections okay no really I mean it is here where we are you know a lot of clients will ask like a credit card in my I think I mean I know I mean where we are it just would make sense to do credit cards but um I need a merchant cow and then just giving up two point five percent kills me so um you know we will transition to that but right now it's just checking cash old school I have a question from snapped earl and chat if you could talk about storing photos how how do you store them and how long do you keep wedding photos for people to keep them question forever and in the contract it says that I am legally responsible for the four of the digital files a year after but I mean I have the photos you keep him keep him and I have three sources so I have them on my computer so I have um I think four terabyte mac and with the raid system so that has like a back up in the computer I burn discs of the images both the raw and the j pegs I have online storage so you know god forbid you have disc you have online and you have your computer you don't use external hard drives well the raid system is is like its massive so I always feel like god forbid we always hope my morbid that I have a fire plan I have a fire plan and so I I always think it wouldn't be worse like to grab your computer and then grab grab the sixteen hard drying you know like at least I know like I grab my my big thing and run so yeah that works well for you and the dog and our wedding off that that's what I'm taking with me wearing the hat sadie uh from flipping crazy do you worry about print issues on your images when clients print them on their own and having your brain connected two of yours printing of course it is just part of what we do though I mean I was just telling the crew at breakfast that I took pictures of my sister and her boyfriend and she went to save on and got it printed and literally the pictures are green she looks like a leper con I looked at the picture and I walked in and I'm like that's my photo and she's like no I love it but like where did you get his predictions like save on like why are you getting pretty sure it's fine I'm like but don't you see and she's like what they don't feel they totally don't mean and again most are clients are viewing our images on an online gallery from uncalculated pc it's just what it is you know and of course it kills me but they see it for themselves they really do such do you give a disclaimer before that want something because I always think went out when I want something see my images I always want to say oh please do this in a color break like you know I'm not gonna do that but I did say that you know your images were different on difference everybody and you gotta bring it hard and there was a note in the car that was written in japanese and then translated into english please only use this have gas don't put bumper stickers don't use air fresheners always back in the car never allow food inside of it don't let anyone under the age of fourteen get it would you do that like those designers of the cars will walk around they will see density will see bumper stickers and then we'll see little dyson amir or if you're like miss thing over your eyes a sombrero on the back of her camaro designer you know it of course people take ownership of what it is that scares and they will do what they want with it and I have that part of it so let go but I mean specifically for your client know when you give them you know the slide show and they're the computer watching the reviewing on is fifteen years old and I don't want to do told them just specifically them not you know everyone else around the world you might see your block but now you don't say anything if I did if I did it would set him up for not the best optimal viewing experience because if I had sent him the link and I said but wait on leave you it on x y and z then they would put them as in I'm not it might take me a day to find x y and z so then my only option is to one extrapolating from the excitement of their slideshow or if they opt to circumvent that they'll watch a slide show and then think it's probably not as good as it could be no thank you I love the situations I'm really not really wanting so I think also states shooting jasmine's philosophy on it's not from the photographs that they're hot and they want their getting it's the experience of their get when they're watching when there was just like I'm not the photographs have a question from alex in the chat room how do you deal with remote clients that you might not be able to meet before the wedding day or do you know if you can't ever meet um I book about half my clients without meeting them which is what I want I'm um I am a um destination photographer as much as what I do and um a lot of times client trust me girls will start reading my blawg perhaps after being um a bride meat or guests at the wedding and so it's kind of voyeuristic because they don't want to they don't want to let me know that they're reading my block because they're like oh that's a private but no I put it out in a public forum but to them they're like or reading that your vacation or reading that your dog and I will be reading that your family and then by the time it comes for them to book they've literally been having eight three three hundred sixty five a conversation with me they trust me they feel like they know me they feel like they've had a five minute conversation on the phone with just me so they think already in their mind they've convinced themselves that we're a good fit great if you are so staunchly confirmed that we are a good fit um maybe I'll have a phone conversation maybe set up skype I love skype I'll even hold it my albums on skype put the pages come show you how big it is in relation to my hands how heavy it is I mean whatever we can do but um a lot of times because you khun brand yourself so well online it really does help and change the experience so what about you knowing them in that situation um well I think that um as like human beings they were so we know what goering tune you can talk to a person on the phone and if they're you know this person is terse with me and if it's like a hot yeah okay um so your prices um yet that it's like maybe we're not gonna fit but if it's something you just want to have a conversation I know within the first five minutes and most the time I've never had a client who's called me because I put so much of myself out there because I probably from reading you've never heard me talk before you probably know that I'm kind of kind of maybe I have videos of myself out there as well um it's just meshes quite well like when we first meet you put so much out there and then the rest just kind of fall into place you sarah rosetta from rockhampton australia had asked a few minutes going who do you store online with the story images with um it's part of the backup process I'm interns okay okay that just got really quiet way yeah I know don't you know yeah I know I saw this happen at uh at a wedding so uh friend of mine uh trevor dean photo is asking what would you do if a flash card while you use many so corrupted and you lost half of your images well I would never lose half it probably wasn't in use a tenth but I wouldn't I don't even know if I would lose a twentieth maybe I would lose the twentieth but of the twentieth that I lost how many of those would actually be keepers you know um so that's why I prefer and I know people think I'm crazy for shooting on four gig and I totally now but it's just I now have the evan flo I know how long I could shoot you gotta look here gotta look it's treating me to look at my camera trained you look in the camera before the ceremony starts I take out my gig card I don't care how many pictures I have left because I know I have one hundred twenty three images on a four game card I will pop that in it will get me all the way through everybody walking it'll get me through the giveaway it'll get me through the aisle shooting take a step back so what my card out so it's nice and ready to get emotional pictures back and forth any type of religious ritual like communion or doves flying away come back get the first kiss and the recessional immediate after kissing it's about my credit again there's a rhythm so yes I'm hopeful we'll trevor and chat would like to ask what would you do if your flashcard corrupted and you lost over half your images during a shoot he goes on to say it happened to him during a family christening shoot today e has that ever happened to you over a card I don't have a car I did have a card I did but thank god it was um it was a two gig if you can believe we were at the end of the day we're shooting um the groom and his groomsmen so what we lost which totally sucked it was him and his groomsmen and not to diminish the fact that we had lost them but I explained to the client and it's kind of like having a roll of film rip or just having dust on the phone or whatever it was I just explained it I'm so sorry something happened to the card I sent it to get the images retrieved it wasn't possible and you said I set it up like that guy said the images that we lost work ex and his groomsmen of course is a little like I'm so you know but then she was so sweet just like are you ok I know you were stressing out about this and I totally was I mean aided me for like days but they can't do I'm thankful that was a two gig I have heard of hard girls which at the end of the day I'm really happy with her like that card that we lost with a guy in the guys I mean the groom in the guy's butt another question which I saw earlier and I'm not sure who lasted but have you ever had anyone ask for a refund or been dissatisfied announced for a partial refund ok good job I think that that's something we control far before the images come back I think that people can become too satisfied with their images even forcing them like if you have an attitude and you're mean toe uncle joe because looking his walker taking a long time up there people are just like ill what you know they will think that that photo sucks because your total shark so you can control a lot of the sentiments that are associated with photographs positively and negatively so but no I'm very thankful needing bert slur in the uk um is asking what's your dream photography assignment and why um outside of it she doesn't say outside of weddings but I don't know if there's something good out of have you cheated you know I just okay maybe location okay you know I think that went ever we have the opportunity to shoot a client in a new location it is then it becomes a dream a dream assignment for me like j d and I are shooting um next me in philadelphia okay but it's a dream assignment for me because her family um many generations ago owned sewing factory in like the early nineteen hundreds and it's been in her family and it's just a piece of property at set there and she walked in and it literally had old sewing machines and early nineteen hundreds in there and old burlap pieces and she decided to have it professionally cleaned out and repainted and the floors refurbished and I am so excited and who would have thought that a dream location for me is gonna be in the suburb of so why don't you know I mean I'm just excited to do something different I was so excited to find out that we were shooting at theo I want to shoot outside of the resorts that we shoot in so you know philly is totally underappreciated I lived there I know what I just did what I just did as I connected right here I didn't help good have you seen cheesesteak wait we shot in philly before another weight and there was a holdup maxes or pat's house yes but do you have different pricing for uh attestation wedding d'oh d'oh d'oh because um when we shoot in southern california anywhere between san diego in santa barbara that's a drive for us and if we ought to get a hotel room I'm not necessarily charged my clients how I figure is if I get home before midnight the client doesn't pick up the charge if the client wants me to stay till midnight I'm not gonna drive I'm not gonna take a two hour from santa barbara drive home so I will then tell the client that she then has to pay me a small trouble feet plus the hotel for the night now if I shouldn't others different pricing according to where I'm shooting within the continental united states if I'm shooting in arizona phoenix let's say that's an hour and a half flight I can leave midday on friday get there on friday night there's no they're zero time acclimation wake up the next morning as if I was shooting and the night leave early sunday morning if I was shooting on the east coast I have to take a thursday night red I have to get there early friday morning I have to decompress have to go to the venue figure things out different climate it's a different region after might have to get a rent a car and then on sat on sunday I could be on the first flight out but then I'm really not in getting home till halfway through on sunday that's four days of work from thursday friday saturday and sunday the clients are paying a bit quite a bit more for that it's our time it's time that I'm away from my studio from my dog for my family and time that has to be attributed that could be shooting something else and making money during the day and has to you have to be compensated for that and I like where I live I like you we live I mean I like shooting weddings there so so are you figuring out those numbers depending on what the location is or yes okay how long is it gonna take for me to get there I mean we could shoot a wedding in the bay area and we can be there in one hour flight I could get to the bay area sooner than I could get to saint barbara you know so but still I have to get a rental car eat all these things come into it so okay good to know I have a question from stills by film chat room I feel like my wedding style has changed and want to revamp my whole portfolio but I have a lot of weddings under my belt how do I get some new ones business to change my profile my first thing without happening to do anything is revisit your old photographs it's so refreshing to go back with a new set of lens like I can go back to a wedding that I shot a year ago and I could find photos that I probably would have overlooked that myself has evolved in my post processing has evolved in I knew what I could I do and I know how I can massage that photo to make it more reflective of who I am present day so before getting new weddings it's visit your old portfolio with a new set of lenses process all the photos again so that they look fresh and then up to your portfolio and see what just transpires from that if you're not moving in such a way I would say set up a shoot grab you know a good friend in her wedding dress and and her fiance groom get models whatever and challenge yourself set up a team to the shoot what are you what are your three random words if you just shoot to get pretty pictures you will just get pretty pictures and they won't move her brand anywhere figure out your trajectory your bull's eye set your goal accomplished just that and then leverage that as the main a piece of your portfolio because how many questions what time is it it is for one one for a one cool great great you have answered a lot of these question I already know you wantto look and see if there are any it hasn't all white teams own their own company jointly equally even if one is a primary shooter in the other often second that's a really good I mean that's a good question I think it's a question that it has to be individually answered for each couple I have seen couple relationships like husband and wife team that doesn't doesn't really work because it's too for shooters two people are vying for that first shooter position and it's not a good situation to show your clients who your clients need to know who's in control and um if you guys have a nice rhythm and flow to volley that between having conversation prior to the wedding who is in control during this part of the day who is a control on this part of the day having a secret code between you two a smith a nose rub something to say I want control because I see something different it's far better than I think we should go here no I think we should go there what about if she does this no can you look this way you know both of you look this way that's so much you know mental stimulation for a client so I definitely have a conversation advance if you think if you highly suspect that you both want to be for shooters and you want to start a new associate ship with this house then you could brand it separately you khun brian it as an associate ship however you see fit but that conversation needs to have money you need to happen much sooner than later yes I'm normal body before I was um about processing andi when teo outsource it if you cover that so for example with my business should uh safe actually wedding in and there's something that I would outsource should that price how can I kind of put that into my pricing structure and well dok so do your research in advance so I would send I know victoria has sent um couple samples to different companies to figure out who works better for her and a lot of companies offer free sampling or really really really discount of sampling put it out there get your best strongest favorites weakest hardest photos put them in a sample and send him to a different company once you find a company that kind of will do what you want them to do well then you will find out you're pricing structure so you can get a base so um roughly for like a two thousand image edit just for the edit no uploading no image renaming just edit itself from photographer said it is around two hundred and seventy five dollars if you wanted to outsource that charging it into the collection at the basic minimum two hundred seventy five dollars awesome covers your bomb you get eight hours of your minimum at minimum of your life back um padding that into the collection is is totally fine I don't necessarily think about patting when I first started I just thought I'm so overwhelmed that too much to learn I don't care how much it costs I'm just gonna pay and there's so many different ways clearly you know talking about one company there are multiple companies and when he first started there was a girl who's a photographer facing chattanooga and her younger sister was in high school on her she taught her younger sister was eighteen how to process the images and her sister said okay altered you twelve cents an image and at the time was paying twenty five cents an image and so it was literally she was charging me half and that worked really well for a business so thinking outside the box putting it out there talking to people in their husband wife teens who supplement their income by processing other people's images put it out on forums get your style out there what works for me doesn't necessary after work for everybody else but if you find a company that you like and part of the reason why I stopped working with with e with eighteen year old because I couldn't depend on her you know prom havin the boy broke her heart I mean I just felt so bad about that my client says you know get ready you know you were gonna marry the guy no um I'm just getting it but um it was I know what it's also rude no but I finally got to a point where I needed a strictly professional people that I can count on distinctly and um like I mentioned victoria off air yesterday was that if I wasn't happy um with photographer sent it I emailed nathan nathan and photographers and it'll calm and they said this is what happened to this wedding and a need um to fix I need to address it for a future edit and there have been times where um and that it wasn't right and it wasn't a matter of taste it was just a matter of an edit he pulled it down and he did the edit he assigned the edit to somebody else to do it correctly and redid it for me so you can complain about a company unless you've actually called him out on it and they were not willing to change so but that's a life principle I think so just to like drum up a little goodness craig oh can we um give away a couple thing or did marty I think weird is it did you do the big giveaway no way have like maybe thirty minutes left of quick q and a but before we don't want to do it at the end can we give away a couple things right now e like I just throw things his way j d a had a a light question for you okay king photog who's in charge of paying the household bills and grocery shopping I'm in charge of both of those yeah I do those two those are part of my uh actually you know what I find this is weird I know I'm kind of a typical but grocery shopping to me is therapeutic I love it I love getting lost in aisles and I just I e way random is cheeses and the readiness mustards and the randomness just salami I think forty seven times my my dinner when jasmine you know if she ever you know ask to go work late or something my dinner it consists of cheese and salami eyes on y'all have sometimes I e but that can survive and chocolate it's a morning a little bit e questioning our um let's see bunny trails money trails uh did you ever address so where you put your extra gear during a wedding and has anything ever been stolen that's great where we're doing gone I'm very thankful thank god it was a great question I'm very very very think well I haven't had anything stolen but um it happens a lot a lot a lot often then people would like to really acknowledge especially at maybe just in southern california I mean there's so much traffic a lot of venues have multiple weddings all at one time so whenever we get to the venue jd carries the backpack I like you guys saw us carrying he has his chute sack I have my shoots back he carries the backpack with him all throughout the day and we get the ceremony on dh there is either a band or is there is either a deejay janey will then put the bag on the chair by whoever was manning the sound booth because they never leave the sound booth um and we are always with talking to them for before we do the dump also always introducing ourselves on dh it's a good thing that start that relationship with either the deejay or any other vendors because it's it's funny right by the end of the night we're all like this we're all watching each other's backs you know when the food comes out we go out to the deejay or they come to us and say the food's ready standing elite or so we always have each other's back so that's why feels a little bit more comfortable when we drop off our bags you get it well they allow us to put it under their table so that's hidden him the way things like that are sometimes if I feel like the vendors and we got to a point further where we don't have we don't necessarily need access to the bean bag really good places they already have the cake table set up in the cake is on it it's usually draped stick your bag underneath the cake table no one's really checking under the keeping very careful yeah you don't want that weighs the biggest that my biggest worry when we wanted the cake I always worried the deejay or the band is always preferable but when nobody's in the room nobody's really checking under the cake table right but we never leave it exposed do you ever offer one one consultations for other photographers um people asked that uh yes it's it's time it's time intensive I am a huge proponent of like uh I don't clearly I don't have secrets you know so it's like I want to share as much as I can and the best that I do that is online clearly through something like this and when one takes a lot of time