Lessons

Lesson Info

Second Shooters

so we're gonna talk about second shooter's because for a lot of people who are watching online they are kind of in transition to becoming either a full time photographer or they want to be a second shooter they want more experience and so I think it would be a good idea to one talk about second shooting in the first person narrative as somebody who's done it and as um and as like a byproduct you will need a second shooter at some other point in time so um back when I had a conversation with jd oh I'm doing the wrong one thinking ok there um see last year's in time like last october jd and I uh uh went to san diego to shoot a wedding and he said you know people sometimes ask me for advice about second shooting and he started laughing I was like really like really if you were asking you advice he's like yeah people ask me if I'm right and I'm like okay well would you tell them it was just like I'm like if you had to make like a top ten list and uh he started naming a few things and I'm l...

ike oh my god you're so gonna guess block next week with a so I really kay's advice for second shooting is far better than what I could have um given because I feel like on a wedding day I'm a little bit high maintenance so if he can deal with me second shooting I think that his advice to other second shooters working with someone who's not so high maintenance will fit in quite nicely um tip number ten because we'll work like letterman oh my gosh okay so when we were little we weren't allowed to watch leno or letterman but when we went to bed at night my dad would watch letterman and I would listen and I would here like dave going to his top ten list and I always thought to myself if I ever get to a point in life where I can do a top ten list like letterman I'm so gonna do it here is my jam ten laser second shooters top ten would be dressed appropriately um I feel like I made a big mistake my first year two thousand seven I wore clothes that were kind of just comfortable and so semi cute I was like I'm gonna be on my feet all day like whatever I just need to breathe but at the end of the day I don't know if I I would be a reflection of my brand because my brand was trying to portray professionalism being being inspired by fashion you know I wanted to look like a guest but when I looked back the pictures um we do this thing every at the end of the year called a year in review and we post pictures of us behind the scenes and as I was collecting pictures behind the scene pictures I was looking at my elf it's and I'm like punky brewster reinventing I was like oh my god it was awful so then the second year I actually took a chunk of money to invest in like work style uniforms and I bought clothing that I feel I would be able to be a little bit intermixed with guests so I wear dresses when I shoot some people don't understand it but I do that's just how I roll I prefer I know it's kind of cliche but I prefer black I wear all black I request that jeannie wear suit some guys are like how could you do that jd shoots on a beach in a suit it is what it is the division of the brand is professional fashion driven whole sometimes works best and it's like a skinny black tie it's kind of like we want to look like friends of the writing room with really nice cameras dress appropriately I've seen people who are also okay uh top nine nine if you're the photographer is doing a same day slide show make sure that you are not sitting next that talked over that you're out in the ballroom roaming following the bridegroom if they're walking from table to table nobody likes that job the table shot job is like the worst job ever nobody likes to do those photos but it's so nice to have somebody like on saturday's wedding we have been working so long and the dinner break was so late and we were tired and we're hungry and I was a wee bit cranky and so I started working on the slide show and because I started so late I wasn't a thousand get on time j d takes a quick bite and he said you know what I'm just gonna go upstairs I'm hanging with the bride and groom I felt like a huge burden was lifted because as long as the bride and groom see somebody following them and taking pictures they feel like they're being well taken care of again a division of the brand ate um gather the family during family formals I am in the the director of what is going on I cannot be a corral er like getting uncle jack who's at the bar trying to get his gin and tonic and get grandma escorted from the second row slowly inching her way up to the top and mom who's trying to be a wonderful hostess basically I do a big yell like everybody who's here for laura's family I need everybody in and they're just like where's uncle jack I'm not gonna go get uncle jack that's not my responsibility as a second shooter go find uncle jack find somebody who knows uncle jack can't give him that job to get uncle jack that's it the second shooter needs to do the second shooter needs to help propel the first photographer not just to stand around these pictures are going to be used and also during that time is uncle jack is there then you get the candid so the main photographer is getting the head on straight on boring photo that boring god forgive me I love I love my family photos classic thank you I look I love my family photos are very special to me um but they got their very classic the first timer gets a classic photo and what j d does he sends off to the side and he's getting the things that are happening in between that moment when lauren billy look at each other and to kind of like sigh like we made it or the little flower girl picking her nose or the girls fighting over the flower basket those types of things that's what the second shooter should be focusing on during that time of the day um but see uh six from sorry wrong seven number seven taking cara vendors on the wedding day um jd understand that I'm very busy and I'm thinking about a lot of things but he also wants to make sure that um the relationships that we established on the vendors actually go much farther than the racial relationships that were establishing with our clients has a division of our brand he wants to make sure that he's out there saying hello to the deejay saying hello to the band talking to the assistance of the wedding coordinator because I and the wedding coordinator have this constant communication like what do you need yes go thank you very much and the other girls who are floating around her I want to be included to a certain extent judy so good how are you what are you doing what do you study things like that whenever he gets the water he will go and make sure that the deejay has water the band has water talking to the catering manager any time you can trust a second shooter to go out of the way and talk on behalf of the first order it's very much appreciated um six offer to carry bags I know who likes that job nobody does but as a second shooter you have your own gear and you want to take care of it but it's so nice to say hey let me grab this bag you run ahead that sacrificial like I won't get the shot you want had all do this for you that right there solidifies your position as a good person not as a good second shooter and that goes a lot farther um number five get water and maybe I'm just a camel but I've gone through how much water but teo underwater but on a wedding date like I am stressed and I'm hot I mean like this room is like probably thirty three degrees I'm sure if somebody sneezy would freeze but I'm hot right now because I'm just like let's go let's go let's go and so on a wedding day I drink a ton of water and so jd always has a glass of water at certain distinct times a day so that after the family formals he knows here's a glass of water drink up if you are in the opportunity if you're thirsty the first photographers probably thirsty gaudy roy do something nice for them too number four smile that's a huge thing when jenny and I first started shooting um he was definitely learning and so there's a core of course frustrating and dare I say boring types of times of the day and that moment of when everybody is seated for the ceremony and people are lining up outside the door of the church and we're just waiting for doctors understanding like I used to work at nordstrom they teach you you have to smile all the time you're a division of nordstrom as you stand on that floor you are not selling clothes you're selling experience when people know when I put out the engagement sideshow people follow the slighter than they visit my blogger they visit my website and so they feel like they know me if I'm up there like checking my phone who don't take your phone I feel like that is so rude road do you want that bond quickly on youtube road nobody your neck can somebody tell me they march on quickly anyway so I'll probably be on the wedding day road okay so smile you're division of your brand and smiling says so much smile when you don't feel like smiling when you're hot or if I'm angry like talk learn how to talk with a smile like okay go get it right ok thanks so smile a lot goes a long way number three finds a new angles when I first started checking second shooting I assumed that what the photographer wanted was safety and assurance from behind his right shoulder like just in case he doesn't get that shot I'll get teo the first photographer doesn't need at the first photographer needs you to think like a first photographer shooting from a different angle your job is to find an entirely different picture so the way that it will work at the wedding is there are certain times of the day we're jedi nice split I will be with laura as she gets ready j t will be billy as he gets ready we will rotate in you guys as second shooter's in during that time when jd comes you will then become the third shooter most likely you will become the third shooter for most of the day in those instances I don't want you to think like a third shooter I want you to think like a first shooter getting a third angle it's going to be hard it's gonna be very hard because there's a crew going on there's any angles but that's what defines a really good photographer seeing a picture that nobody else sees or sing entirely different scene if there's something else like if I'm getting laura into her dress and her mom happens beginning a hair done at a chair from another side I can't simultaneously shoot laura's mom and laura if you have an angle and he turned it on to laura's mom she's getting her hair done and she turns and she cries you get the wedding picture good job that right there is what a solid second photographer does third for talking for photographer third our second never pass out your business card ever we know that like we just say of course course no no there are people on the internet who think that's ok yes you own your own business but you do not own your own business when your second shooting for that photographer you are there as a representation of that person I had another photographer pass out business card on their day and I'm just like hold up wait a minute you just don't trip threw up right now don't do that that is so so so rude when I second she within a photographer I am there on behalf of photographer x I will get you for I actually when I start the day I ask the other for hardware can I have two or three of your business card because if somebody asking for a business card here you go it is none of my business to get up in her business she got that wedding on her own accord and I don't need to be going up there and be like oh I got along so much better with the bridesmaids I was able to hang out with them and he just likes me too bad your other photographer was stressing out working with all the other drama that you don't have to see with behind the scenes don't do that as wrong info pa number one leave your ego at the door that is the number one thing I have heard so many times where he would be like can you believe this happened yes I can't believe it happened yeah I believe it happened because you went in and you treated it like it was your own wedding and on a wedding day a second photographer is just that another person in the room as a division of that photographer I don't get it twisted you walk in yes sir what can I get you you want me to jump how high you want to take your bags to siberia and back I will do it in five minutes that's what the first photographer needs and that's actually how I believe um my name kind of traveled a little bit in the second shooting community because they knew that I would do whatever I would look out hustle I will not have our run I will shoot and I think that that's how I was able to I mean the second shoe like twelve to fifteen weddings in like two three months is a lot there's a lot I was busy every weekend so if you want to get busy and stay busy um leave your ego at the door I think a lot of times what happens is you need clarification before the ceremony anytime you engage in any type of business transaction with another photographer you need it like be real you need to let them know what you need and what they want so um I think that a lot of disagreements begin with ambiguity in the relationship so what is it that you think you're gonna get out of the day or let that other photographer let you know some photographers don't pay you need to know that in advance and if they don't pay what are you getting in lieu of that if they don't pay can you use the images online if they do pay can you use the images online um are you able to use them in your online profile you are just in your studio can you um can you reproduce those images can you whatever the terms are it needs to be completely out in the open because what happened is that um I see all the time on forms people are like I can't believe I second shot for this photographer and can you believe she put them up in her gallery and didn't give me photo credit I'm like yes I can't believe that that's what photographers dio um maybe there are other things that went on in that dynamic but if you're getting paid for your time you're gonna pay for his time and then you turn your images over to the first photographer the first photographer and then can use them as he or she sees appropriate however within the first photographers jurisdiction toe let jurisdiction what am I trying a lawyer in the first photographers best interest to let you know and as a second photographer if the first photographer has not said it you need toe ask when I first started shooting I don't get paid and some people um might not get it they might disagree with it that it is what it is I can only talk about my experience I um I started a second slash third shooting for free I just want to get experience I just wanted to know about the day and then um this one opportunity a photographer by the name of greg clemente in orange county gave me an opportunity to third she with him and I didn't get paid and then he invited me to second she with him and I didn't get paid but a week later he gave me a gift certificate to chili's I was like a big time I was like baby order appetizers remember because we were still doing talk about so chiles is like fine dining open here so give me a gift certificate to chili's and then he asked me to come with him a second wedding or third wedding the time you need chili's again and on the way to our third wedding working together he was so kind and brutally honest and he said some of your last photos were a little over exposed and remember I was shooting j peg he was getting jamie to but that exposure had to be a lot had to be spot on it was like they were a little over exposing do you know what you did here and like I don't really know I don't really know the mistake that he did he's like I think you overcompensated he took the time to explain to me was it uncomfortable yeah I'll never forget sitting he had this blue bmw and had blue tinted windows I'm sorry greg if you're watching I'm so sorry he had these blue tinted windows and I'll never forget sitting with the camera my lap with this like awkward blue glow on my hands and on my camera and he's explaining what I did wrong I'll never ever forget that kindness he knew it was uncomfortable I mean he was uncomfortable but he was teaching me and after that wedding I think I did a better job because he paid me and I was like tonight and after that I was able to see the second she with him quite a bit that year quite a bit that year and he was very graciously passed my name on the other photographers at the opportunity to shoot with a few other photographers and then by the time I shot my own wedding on my own I felt confident I knew what was gonna come my way um I think it second shooting is the most invaluable thing that goes back to clarification one thing teo was that my personal experience as a second shooter is um mixed of course they will always always be good experiences and they will always be not so good experiences um I'll never forget the first time I second shot at a wedding like you do that scene injury maguire where jerry maguire is looking for a song on the radio because he just signed the rookie and he's pushing all the radio stations and like not a good powerful song is coming on well okay evans like no way there's the scene in jerry maguire anyway so anyway I'm on my way to second shooting I wanted like a song like I wanted like this is my anthem song and I'm clicking to the radio and nothing is coming on like nothing until finally as I'm pulling I shot in like newport and pull it up fifty five freeway and pat benatar comes on and I'm like frigging pat benatar well dio and so I'm thinking like you know a lot of that benatar we'll always remember pat benatar is being like the very first time my second shot of wedding and for it being the first to my second shot yes I was nervous but I think it went really well and I think that comes back from a lot of hard work just shooting outside of weddings so if you're in that kind of structure of not knowing what to do you shoot outside of what you're familiar with because it will help you confidently approach a myriad of lighting situations um one thing teo I think I've mentioned this earlier being involved with online forums that is how I got most my second shooting opportunities I was involved with the community and so they knew me more as a person than they did as the second photographer so when my name came up with other people's names because people would say hey I need a second shooter in santa barbara hey I need a third shooter in san diego I would put my name out there but because I was so involved with the community and helping people and I didn't know what the heck I was talking about but the thing was I had only been shooting six months but there was a person who was just coming into the industry so you know for somebody been shooting one month and I have been shooting six months I was five months up on that person I didn't know what I was talking about but I had five months more than the other person so I helped wherever I could and I think that helped permeate like the divisions of you that kind of like social strata within forums and people are just like hey come along tag along um that helped out our lot teo I did have an experience one time with a photographer that left me totally burned I quit photography and um I actually blogged about this on my current blogged but it was a retrospective it had happened years ago and um on my block I entitled it the day I quit photography on the day that I quit photography was when I second shot a wedding and I was ill prepared the talk I didn't mention to the other photographer that I uh didn't shoot manually I was shooting an aperture priority and it was a really important thing for this photographer for me to shoot manually and I I started the day off I thought I was I was seriously like humming I have a tiger like dun dun dun don't uh don't look so good with a camera I felt really good when I got there it didn't work it was just a hot mess like it was a dark dark dark we've got she's getting ready at this venue was so dark I wasn't prepared didn't have fix lenses it was all over the place I felt really off and then by the time this ceremony came it was bright sun and the photographer asked me to shoot the groom's reaction of the bride walking down the aisle and the son I'm not lying was like right here like on his head and so he was bright bright bright bright bright and this is like pitch black on the site and I didn't know how to compensate because of course we should aperture priority it's gonna not focus it's not going to meet her for his skin so she's photographers like uh just just to shoot it shoot it shoot it and I'm like what we do what we do what do what do what are the readings and a high stress situation not the best for anybody involved and I was thinking my mind don't worry you'll fix it when you get home you'll fix it when you get home you'll fix it when you get home and on the night I had to deal with all the cards and give them to the first photographer and I saw all the way home because I knew that I had not missed the mark I had not messed up I like royally screwed somebody over and I felt like such a small person I felt like I totally botched this huge opportunity to work with somebody that I respected and I felt like I was a complete phony complete hat like what he had hack had sounds cool too I was a complete happened I felt like a complete hack I felt like I had put together a front andi I totally led this person the wrong direction so I cried and I cried and cried and cried and they came upstairs we slip in the duplex and lived upstairs and judy thought that my mom had died on and he said something that you really did change the experience and this is a snippet from israel in block post but this is a snippet the day I quit photography by the time I got home I was sobbing I stumbled through the front door of our home and collapsed on the couch and sobs some more I tried explaining to jd the horrors of the day but I lost him somewhere in between my dry heaves and insisting my camera didnt speak english I sobbed for a few more hours and fell asleep the next morning I told you dea quit photography honest tend to heaven I quit and swore never to return because really I messed up that badly then jd reminding me that I was it was supposed to happen I was supposed to fail and learn and cry because that's what the process of building a business is all about had belle jefferson or full turn quit after their first failure the phone electricity and cupcakes wouldn't be around and as he well knew I couldn't survive without any of those things I quit photography I wanted to I don't know what stopped me from getting my camera and throwing it against a wall I was so disillusioned with my performance in my inability teo really know what that I was doing I wanted to pretend I was a professional yet I wasn't shooting professionally that was the first time it revealed it it revealed it felt somebody held a mirror and said you're a fake you're a phony if you want this you better get it right on dh it hurt god it hurt I was humiliated I don't want to come I came in for a really long time but what options do I have at this time I was second shooting and was still working part time my options were go back to law school or stay permanently in his part time job both of those options totally blue and I was like okay I want to do this and I think that everybody has had that experience and to not let those experiences define you but rather shape you to help you become the person on photographer you want to be having said that I think we will take a deep breath craig wei will field a few more questions from the inter waves first I wanted to say that christina deli with photo she's watching and so she's very excited you see I have the best of the best right I have the best frights and actually on the brake I got an email marie if you're watching I totally see you she mailed me and said oh I hey I logged on yesterday so you and I'm logging on and I saw you a little bit today which is awesome which just means I'm trying to be transparent as possible I'm gonna tell my clients everything I do from behind the scenes and I'm so proud that they like to know the inner workings it's great I love it also just I have ah direction from craig single back one slide and I have a feeling it has to do with editing purposes ok I just want to say to you that people really appreciate you talking about how you messed up uh because everybody does feel it's how you learn people and it's hard I have to say that I feel really proud of myself cause I feel like there's this lump in my throat because you don't want to tell people thank you screwed up and you don't want to admit that you don't have it together but I'm happy I'm having a human you would be human yeah but something didn't you want to wear a cape though sometimes I don't want to be like I got it I got it done not really I totally got the eye of the tiger syndrome okay cool any questions yet so young espy and twitter would you recommend uh trying to be a second shooter before trying to be a food first shooter yes yes yes yes oh my god to shoot a wedding having never experienced um shooting wedding and of course I'm only speaking from my perspective and I started second shooting but there are there's so many things happening on a wedding day and I firmly believe and of course if there are commercial photographers and architectural photographers happening to watch us they're gonna disagree but I'm going to say that what photography is not harder than other text photography I just gets more complex because you are a lifestyle photographer you're a photojournalist you're a commercial photographer you are an architectural photographer you are a lot of different things and the better you be comet those small elements the stronger you become as a package because I I don't just get the bride show shoes and put them out and take a picture the shoes I style the shoes I don't know if we the block post that I will be posting on friday I had to shoot those shoes and four or five different location because it wasn't speaking to me I didn't want feel like that photo was branded because I know I always I collect attract whatever um brides who like fashion and they will spend a nice amount of money on their shoes they want a picture of those shoes I want to take a pretty picture of those shoes so I can then blogging so that what I can do is one attract other clients who like shoes who want me to take my section of the shoes and it becomes a self revealing prophecy right but in order for me to do that I have to start taking pictures of that I'm really proud of to put on the internet and I had taken photos and they're fine photos there okay photos but I didn't feel like I had that photo I had to take pictures of the shoes three or four different times and I'm guessing that as a commercial photographer she had been to wear jimmy choos on saturday if I was shooting a pair of jimmy two shoes as a commercial photographer I would probably have to shoot it three or four five fifteen eighteen a hundred different ways to get the shot that's what we have to dio as photographers and I don't even know the question was what was the question I don't even know if you uh recommending if you would you should be a second oh thank you that's why yes and so when you could see what other people are doing and it's not just I'm shooting shoes because when I was shooting shoes the brights the flower girls came into as the bride was getting ready so you want the expressions of her saying that flower girls for the first time in the flower girl seeing her she's getting ready so there's a ton of different things that you're doing in that room all at once so to see that done in a different way and toe one notice what you like and to to notice what you don't like that's like a really big thing by second shooting e was once told that you should always be shooting the opposite linds of what your first shooter has on their camera what do you think about that um I don't think it's hard and fast rules but when I'm shooting with the fifty jd shooting eighty five okay I don't I don't know need to much I want different I want a lot of differentness okay e I'm just inventing them dig this far jasmine up in here okay the dictionary of jasmine whatever different yes but yeah I do I do think that especially because it's not necessarily that you're standing so far in relation to your subject you might be at a different angle but if both shooting with the fifty you will get the same feeling so jimmy always is looking what I'm looking and I set the tone if I'm going to fifty he shoots of eighty five if I'm sure eighty five will shoot with he shoots of the twenty eight two twenty four twenty eight or the fifty or even telephoto got that telephoto I mean the seventy two hundred I can use it as I feel like I have like weak wrists like I only put it on during the ceremony but when he uses that lens when we're doing either first look orjust bridle like just the writing room together yeah why it feels so raw feels revealing those photo journalistic it feels very fashion on the go go's very danek karen it feels very michael cora's ish in new york city you get these just tight movements and you get a lot of like fall off I mean there's just a different vibe so if you could do that for your photographer yeah totally so quite a few people have been asking what it's like to work with your husband and a lot of people seem to be you know married teams on in the chat room so I really interested yeah like for you well he's here don't you think no I totally love it I totally totally love it I um I think it works better in our situation I have not better sorry it's good I like our arrangement he doesn't ever want to be the first photographer he doesn't ever want to go out on his own he never wants to shoot a wedding by himself he never wants to be an associate for book things on his own uh he doesn't ever want to direct people he likes the role that he plays he likes to be behind the scenes um like today he's just chilling out over there which I like cause I could peek through the little curtain like hey um uh but that's how he is morning day he doesn't like to do that I think it would be really hard you had a husband and wife team who both had ideas about how to approach the day then I feel like you have a two headed monster like it's a really good body but like you are you know let one person take control and there are and I understand it's some I think that it's good your husband wife team to um break out break down who's in control in what part of the day because there's nothing worse I kind of don't think it's too professional to say I think they should do this what do you think what this what this lighting what about this can you look here look here now over there look at this look I have my clients look at j d but I'm in control of that can you talk to j d cause I want profile shots I'm going to the angle I want to be falling to the second shooter mode whatever the case may be I'm calling the shots on that I don't want him ever to be like can you look here can you look here look here and I'm like me me me I just don't like that bawling I want them to know who's in charge and who is making the shots uh who's calling the shots but there are some times where jd sees something that he wants to and he turns to means is just what do you want this we know that that's the communication so I was like okay guys he didn't do this bubble of law so that my clients know the pulse and ebb and the flow but I love it I mean he's here with me now that's a total total total blessing we have non verbal communication which I'm sure embarrassingly will end up on film like I have two thousand different looks each of them having like a paragraph or two about like like go get grandma and please escort photo you know close your jacket okay smile like me we know like that kind of stuff work so well when your husband wife team so marion silver on twitter saying we know you have jd but how would you choose a second shooter that is a good fit if you didn't have to be in the same way that people found me um get involved in the community it's so hard to find somebody who you trust I think that's the first shooters biggest worry is they can't find somebody to trust enough to share the day with because you worry are these people going to try I've heard of second photographers but looking up the clients on facebook and tagging the clients and photos from the wedding on facebook no no no no you don't do that you don't do any contact with the bride and groom you don't tag them in photos you leave that to the first photographer if the photographer says yeah go ahead feel free to do that that's fine but uh my high second shot a wedding just recently I have seen love the experience and the first photographer links to my block and said thank you so much to jazz and for shooting the that bride came to my blood and left a comment and she said thank you so much for lola so I responded to her but bcc the first photographer why I don't ever want that first photographer to think that I went out of my way to email that client and try to be snarky ibc seat her to let her know I think that makes it so amazing she did such a good job she's fabulous and I'm so honored to have shared the day with her she didn't have to be on the email but god forbid her bride ever say like oh yeah I was speaking to jasmine if somebody said that to me I would instantly feel like why what happened did I not do anything like what was going on so always on the up and up but yes so get involved with communities figure out who's active on those communities who you like but you know after seeing people's posts what kind of person they are if they're always talking about how they're in there in their cubicle and their kids has spilled the cereal and there's some out of the dog is barking in the baby sitter showed up late for your shoot then you've got there and your camera didn't work said to run back to the car and get a second it's like you doesn't know that person's just drama I just don't want them as your second shooter like so that's right you could say amen that's right word so good getting evolving community is figuring out if you kind of resonate with that person to begin with and then you put your feelers out and go to their blog's right yeah definitely so another question that I've been trying to avoid asking keeps coming up oh no um people are saying that all the couples on your website a really beautiful and you know glamour shot um but how do you suggest taking wedding photos of unattractive people um okay so I know for a fact that marie is watching and marie's this girl right here this is marie I know marie is watching I know christina delhi is watching so I'm going to come out and say it honestly my brides are beautiful but I feel like they're just normally beautiful I think that laura is beautiful but she's gonna be freaking gorgeous on her wedding day let me think that we have photographers can bring that out of people I shoot very normal looking people but I coach them to look extraordinary um she both charlie and marie are medical students and what charlie wrote on my facebook wall was thank you so much for not making us look like library nerds we are e I shoot library nerds and they looked that good my clients are not over the top gorgeous they get dressed up and they get dolled up in that helps and then I come in and add a little spin or twist to it another thing too is I do believe it like I mentioned before it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy if I shoot girls with really pretty shoes it then manifest itself more so really pretty shoes and like manner people are attracted to the things that they see on the web what happens when people have an interaction with me on the web it becomes one of two things I am either repelling or attracting and they look at the photos and they're either repelled or attracted to the photos you don't look too marie as um as an idea of beauty is able to her and think I could be her friend she looks approachable she looks pretty I want to look like her those are very different connotations of what people associate when they look at my photos I don't think that they look and then some people look at that and take I could never do that I would never dress like that I would never sit on that dirty bench in los angeles against graffiti wall awesome you're not my client was that tony california so do I type cast my clients absolutely not I feel like I don't choose my clients might try it mike like giants my clients choose me that's a very big difference but they're choosing me based on the things that they've already seen so if it's if you feel like you're not um getting the most out of your photo shoots if you feel like you're not getting the most of our clients like sometimes people wrote I would never have a client who would wear a sparkly gold dress on her engagement session have you given her the permission to wear the sparkly gold dress on her engagement session that is the question if you feel like you're not getting what you want what are you doing to go and get it I email all my why don't I feel like I'm preaching wow just like okay I even my clients in advance and I let them know a list of things I think that they should be doing for their engage in session because I want to prepare them for success if you are not preparing your client for success you might you may or may not succeed in your own terms but I do think that marie was like in fact I know sorry marie I'm just gonna bring you out I love this girl I totally adore her I would if she she's in philadelphia she's going med school I would be this girl's friend if she lived in los angeles I'm trying to make it my life's mission to have her move out to california she was embarrassed wearing this dress she texted me and said look for the golden disco ball walking on the street it's my job to then and I text her back I think it's something along the lines of great my specialty is shooting gold disc of all our jobs as photographers is to make them fuel one okay too beautiful and then once you're lobbed like if you had a client who came and address like this like she's loving your softball she's saying please make me feel beautiful you have to then perform so no I don't have my cloud type I don't type cast my clients I'd repair my claims for success I encourage them to get their hair and makeup done like this fo pa it probably is but whatever we use photographers know that girls look better with their hair and makeup done it is what it is if you hate me for saying it I'm so sorry whoever makeup was invented for a reason we're a little bit more on your engagement session she didn't actually get her hair and makeup done she did it herself but she meant took a little bit of time toe add a little bit more and do something a little bit different had I not said that I don't know if she would have it's our job to educate them what looks better I tell my clients not going get your hair and makeup done because you look better I tell them being dolled up makes you feel a little bit more ready tto working for the camorra those were my exact words we keep it really be honest of your clients and yeah I could shoot a couple like this in the open like this every day so that's what I'm gonna showcase what else is on the list besides hair and make up para makeup I told them I explain that I'm a natural light photographer so if they show up late I do not extend the session they showed a half an hour late I don't extend the session of half hour we end it when it's supposed to because I'm a national life photographer and the sun dictates how long you could shoot if there is a sun I cannot shoot so please make appropriate considerations for traffic fashion emergencies and false eyelashes falling off that was the word that I really I had a client showed up for a session late because her eyelashes kept on falling off so they had to pull up to the store buy glue she had to go into the store re put them on and that's not my lesson a problem but you have to allocate time for that so whose fault was it it was my fault for not telling her in advance appropriate time for that it was just that was just it so um tell them too they all my clients choose locations I simply show up and shoot it's my job to take their ideas and make it better because then they become involved in the shoot and then they have a sense of ownership in what they're doing and so I feel like um not on lee I mean marie poor thing she's never been out I mean she has been to california but not in the sense of like I'm looking for engagement she was actually google maps she's like what about this area what this area and she actually said this area called boyle heights now if you are do you know where boyle heights did you get so like mexico all right I'm like you know like the trucks up there they have like literally thinking of how horns in the front and mexican flags like I might feel comfortable there but michael well awkward of you and I'm like how about a few other locations and we were able to find a location that she felt good and she also found a diner on melrose but then we after thinking it through and whether or not like logistically woodwork and then she ended up im requesting to shoot in the particular area of los angeles and I think that she rocked it out and it's my job to take their ideas and make them better so those that's the things that are in there but it's important like this the email that I sent to those clients was on ly a manifestation of my frustrations because I felt like what people late on my telling them not to be in my explaining why that's the key like you can't just be late and you sound eva explain to them and the minute I haven't had a client late since I put that into the denim on all my mostly all my clients either get their hair and makeup done or they'll put a little extra on like marines but actually your hair things like that make a big difference