Lessons

Lesson Info

Pricing and General Q&A

It's just a really simple what to wear I'm not giving them really any specific instructions I'm just telling them some really simple things and then I'm telling them at the end the last paragraph is laurie will make clothing suggestions on your consultation call based on the decor style of the room where you will be hanging your portrait so it's reiterated again that this is all this process this is gonna happen. Here's, how it's going to happen here is when you will get the specific suggestions for clothing it's going to be after this happens. So, you know, and that's how part of creating a system you're putting each step of that process in place as it should happen. So whatever the product line is that you decide that you're going toe focus on for your events or for your studio product line just put those steps in place to make sure that you can I can get there without beating yourself up over it. You know, I think, you know, just by by letting people know this it it kind of gives yo...

u that permission to ask them and that's what that's, one of the reasons that we started doing it on the first phone call letting people know asking them, have you thought about where you're gonna hang your portrait? Well, no, I haven't really thought about that well, we're going to be asking you to take some images of your of your walls, and what we specialize in is creating a custom concept for you, and I'm going to be asking you to take these images, not only gives them the instruction to do it, but it gives me the permission to go ahead and follow through with what I've told them that I'm going to dio so putting that into that first conversation, you know, makes you stay on task a cz well, making sure that you follow through, all right? So we went through packages, and now we're going to do the build a collection, and again, I don't want to confuse anybody, I just want to give you options. The builder collection works really, really well for not putting people into a box if you if you're letting them build their own than the options are, well, they can add this this and this, um, to it and, well, I'm gonna walk you through how that works. Um, this is the product menu, so we've got two different ones, the one that I have printed hard mound, I've got the product's menu on one side, the builder collection and in the package menu on the other side, so whoever I'm working with, I can work from this and I only have to have it printed once one hard bram bound book with both of them in it um so we're going to start the product when he was going to start we've got a couple of appointment times in it I don't even have those up here um but it's got just a place for them to write their appointment time and then it talks about their view and choose appointment so you guys have that and then we've got the design planner again so it's gonna have that peel and stick go stick it on the wall we'll we'll measure there they're wall and tells him how to do that gives him some ideas of where to do it that's another thing too is when you're starting to talk to people about places that they can hang their portrait and they really haven't thought about it or you have that mom who says I've got all windows in my house there's no place to hang anything you know I told you yesterday one of the tools I use is you know I love a challenge go ahead and photographed just any place that you would even consider and you know, I love to see what we can do with that space so I'll kind of give him that little you know but we're going to do this let's just make this happen but this also just list some suggestions for them so it's going to be anything from the normal living room, family room, dining room? You know, do people think about hanging fortunes in the dining room? Well, now they might, you know, just give him those options. Bathroom master bedroom, kitchen. Um, I've hung a lot supports and people's kitchen, if they walk through and they say I could do something here, you know, I can shoot specifically for that I have one of my really great crying clients that I love their two little girls, I have them eating popsicle sticks on their back porch and reading popsicles or not eating sticks, but they're eating popsicles, sitting on their back port and just in their shorts and their summer pigtails and on dh that's what's hanging in their kitchen and that's this fun summer memory that their mom has, and she that was something that she told me about on the phone actually was at the end of their session, we're shooting for something completely different, and at the end of the session, she said we were done, the girls wanted popsicles, and I said, can I photograph that? I'm going to go ahead and photograph from taking, eating their popsicles, and she said oh my gosh this is this is our summer this is you know a summer memory for me these girls they rip their shirts off sat on the back porch eating their popsicles and then she had to have that toe hang in the kitchen they go right out to the back porch from the kitchen so you know look for all those different opportunities of different things that you can photograph kidsrooms playrooms hallway office the mud room um years ago I was working with a mom and I always will ask them what's the most lived in area of your home I also ask them where does everyone enter your home giving them little triggers like that kind of helps them tio you know really visualize people coming into their home and seeing their beautiful porsche it's or what's the most lived in area there's a place that they're going to enjoy them the most because they're there all the time so I asked him on you know what's what's the place everyone enters and she said is it weird to say the back door and I said no the back the back door is great you know tell me about that she said well we have a pretty cool mud room we we had a design and all the kids have their little five kids all the kids have their little foot lockers that they come in they take off their shoes and you know muddy clothes or whatever is right there and so that's where everybody comes in is into this mud room and so during the session we actually shot for the mud room and I just shot feet and ernie take a picture of my feet you're here on I'm a feat person anyway I love you know little kids toes and so they were all lined up and shot all their little bare feet parents teo so seven sets of feet and that hung of a big long campus over there muttering bench so you know, not asking those questions I would have never known that we were going to do something for that spot I would have never even thought to photograph them all lined up in there a little bare feet for the mud room so make the suggestions you never know what's gonna happen even I don't have laundry room in here but I've actually photographed for a laundry room before there are people that invest a lot of money in their laundry room and unfortunately we spend a lot of time there you know it's a lie not enjoy you know I did a whole series of mud pictures just kids playing in the mud and that's what ended up in one mom's laundry room so super cute you know and just by posing those ideas to them so on the way that they build the package build your own package works is going to be walking them through the steps that you want them to take and the reason that I wanted to share this with you was not to confuse you but if you are just starting out or you're getting to the place where you want to start offering some different products that you're not offering, sometimes the best way is to have a literal system for your client as well as for yourself. So you're you're not only in your mind you know I want them to buy the for the wall that's the most important thing next I want them to start thinking about smaller prints next I want them to start thinking about adams you know, we we know that but it's hard sometimes communicate that to the client, so if you put it into a build your own menu, you're literally walking them through those steps and when they do those things that you want them to do, they're going to get a discount so that way they got that value of the package with that discount. So this one it says exactly that it says get exactly what you want and get the same value as a package right there at the top and then step one is going to be for the wall and it says select from campus rap it's law groupings or custom prints sixteen by twenty, twenty four or larger so this and it just says custom framing available it doesn't even you know it's not right there included so for that person who was asking you know what if they don't want to frame what if they don't wanna frame you know, lead them through this let him know custom framing is available, but it's still number one you're still walking them through the process that that is the first step so they're going to choose for their wall first what the other thing that this doesn't do is it doesn't say you know package a is a sixteen by twenty to love my fourteen's to a pretends and five by seven where you've stuck them in a box of sixteen by twenty it says choose from can campus rap sprawl groupings or costume prints to see my twenty for a larger yes they can purchase just one sixteen by twenty four however we've left it wide open they can also buy eight sixteen by twenty fours you know there's there's no box around that so let's step one step two is going to be for the tabletop and desk and it just says for tabletops jess and dressers prints up to eleven by fourteen on that I do have a minimum from and the reason is when we go through this I know what my baseline is I know if if everyone buys the minimum from each one of these steps I'm going to still reach that minimum order that I want to reach so prints up to eleven by fourteen and it's a minimum of three that they can choose from from that category. Um, I actually don't like having that word minimum there, however, without it, if they just bought one five by seven, I'm not going to hit that average, so I want them to buy at least three from that category and then step three for real kids it's real fun and it says, choose from any multiple image piece, um image, piece, album or image box, so a multiple image piece is going to be a storyboard it's going to be a death strip it's going to be an album image box, anything with more than one image and this campus rap over here, that's got four images, included things like that we call any of those pieces, we call them designer pieces, designer collections and that's just because I hate hate hate the word collage and to me that's, a real scrapbook e term and it's something that was, you know, became real popular when everybody could start designing. That really should have been designing, and so so I don't use that word I used designer piece or designer collection. But any of our multiple image pieces that come in one piece like that are called those that we use that type of burbage for. So any of those things are going to fall into that third category. So once they choose from all three steps, they're going to get fifteen percent off their order. And that means they're going to get that value. That's what? We that's how I would price the package. I would put everything I would put into a package and take about fifteen percent off to give them that. That value of the package so does that make sense? And again, that could be from anything that you are wanting to sell. Just put the steps in place that if they purchase for me to one of those categories, you're going to give them a discount. So can I ask really quick? So are you basically pricing that slightly above, like the total would be slightly above what your what? Your lower pat lois package price would be, and then the fifteen percent would make it equal to that package. Um, say that again. So if you were to strip away the fifteen percent and have someone build the package, would it end up totaling above, like, nine, sixty? Oh, I think you're saying, yeah, it's like all right at that price so it's, very strategic, how you have exactly just it wouldn't matter if they went this route or went a package out, right? Um, the the way we use this most is with the, with the real kids sessions that happened in our studio and really, the build your own package takes too long and it event unless you're unless you walked your client through everything before they get there. And so that's, why packages are so powerful while we're there, but what's gonna happen for for everybody. Once you start doing these events, you're going tohave clients from that that want to be what they want to go above and beyond. They don't want to just be the shorter session, they don't want to just be the one outfit, and you're going to be able to turn those into people who are willing to invest in you and and when that happens, having tools in place to be ableto walk them through the process when you're not quite confident enough yet to just say, okay, first, we're gonna choose for your wall, we're going to design your wall, you know, and said, you've got it in place for them, and you're rewarding them for what you want them to buy, yeah, we're gonna walk you through this process, you're going to get to build your own collection, get exactly what you want and still get that package discount. So again, we're just we're showing them different options. We're showing them framed groupings and just as options, and we're showing them excuse me, the digital collection again, it doesn't matter what product line it is in my studio, I've decided how I can sell digital files it's always ten minutes, images for two thousand or thirty for three thousand, and then it does say on their check out our bonus list to find out how you can get up to fifty percent off your digital collection and so that's when that makes a really nice ad on, you know, even if they go with that ten images and they get it half off, they're adding that on to the two thousand dollars that they've spent that's a great ad on, I'm happy to let them have that they've already purchased what I want them to purchase and that's for their wall after that, I feel like I've taken care of them have taken care of my client if they want to own those digital files, sure out, you know they can own those digital files, the boutique items are fun things that I want my client's tohave because they're walking marketing pieces. You know when I wear this katori bracelet I mean people stop me all the time where did you get that and so I know they do it to my clients you know and so we want to have those things available to them um the wild survey frames obviously or things that it's not that super high profit margin but they're such a unique thing that you know, years ago before I started doing wild sorbet I know I had people here and there that would walk into like a baby nursery and say who did your photography I love that and I would get you know, some clients here and there but now people walk in and they're like where did you get that frame? I have to have that frame you know and so we get calls just based on the product that's out there saying thing with the jewelry and having the albums that mom's khun take around and show off you know those things are boutique items they aren't things that are necessary or you know things that we would have to sell related to images and not necessarily that you know your highest profit margin if your price appropriately is going to be your prince but we want to sell all these items because it gets people excited and talking about us and sharing us so um jule cadiz at other uh jewelry line that I told you guys about albums and image boxes definitely people are showing them they're sharing the images from the image boxes and then dvd slideshow same thing we allowed the dvd to slide shows I make them so that they can be copied I don't need them to buy you know, too two, three, four dvds for me if they buy one in one hundred seventy five dollars, they're welcome tio copied off for grand parents or dad's office or whatever. So those things that you know we're excited about offering, but again, we don't want it to be the concentration we want to tell him we're gonna show you how you could get that at a discount and lead him into the bonus schedule, so I'm gonna go back one more time and just flip through this. The product menu does have again this one says custom prince like it's supposed to enlist those custom print sizes uh thirty by forty down to five by seven I also have other sizes available when I'm not when I've got my full product wendy in the studio, I've got a lot of sizes on there. Part of the reason is is because when you don't have a lot of sizes, you have a huge jump in price when you're going up to the next size, if you can put in a lot of sizes, then you've got small increments going up and so instead of just, uh, you know, sixteen by twenty, twenty one, twenty four I'm gonna have a twenty four by thirty six in there, I'm gonna have ah twenty by twenty six you know, we're going to have we're gonna square oversize in there, but for the purpose of this, all I want them to see on this custom print menu is really the value of things because we want to plug them into a package where they're going to get a discount so that's their the storyboards of their, um the death strip is their campus groupings, so we're sharing with them all these options, all these different things that they khun dio um the actual packages are in this menu, although usually we didn't we aren't presenting them with that so and then those gift prince again they give prints are twelve, eight or five and they can get those from any pose that's been ordered so that's that and I will share the custom greeting turn pages. Well, I think we touched on the cards the other day, maybe, but cards or something that I've been doing for years and years and years because it's such a great marketing peace when it leaves your your studio and goes into somebody's hands and they're directly delivering it to their friends and family who are probably going to be your your target client as well, if your if your client is so, I always want to make those available to people and I'll make suggestions for him. You know, even if we do a session and it doesn't have anything to do with a holiday or anything else that's coming up, I'll tell him, you know, we could do some great greeting cards, just note cards for you with your child's image, and we have those in the studio so that they can see different options of those so definitely holiday cards and, you know, the things that makes sense, but other ways that we can get him into people's hands too. We have we do lots of playdate cards, which is actually on the next flight, but the playdate cars like this one on the left, we add a little image of the child, and we I do sell these, but I also offer them a lot at the end of the at an event I'll put them into anybody who got a package I'll just order in instead of playdate cards and it's one of those things that it really just gives mom an opportunity to show off her kid, but, you know, we call him plato at cards and it's some of them do you have a space that say something like, come play with me and it has a date and time that mom can write down a little playdate for her child and then her information is on it also so our studio information is on on these to write just the website just stand something in a discreet way and if I don't if you concede on that one but it's just right across the front of it first and better dot com um same with thes over here this on the right um at a c I you can order a set of wallets that are each different and so after an event I'll just put every kid on a ninja visual wallet and then I'll punch these out and then do a hole punch and I tie that onto their bag and so that makes a really inexpensive individual you know personalized piece to put on their their bag that we're delivering to them and you know it's the same prices a regular sheet of wallets two dollars and something and then you can you can order everyone of them is different so I add their names on there and it does have the web site information that's also a fun thing we've been at the fore seniors for high school seniors we sell a couple of wallet collections and girls usually get a ton of wallets especially but I'll always just a throw was she the wallets together of eight different pictures that they didn't order for wallet and just give him a set of those eight individual ones and then what happens is they see images, wallet size that they should have gotten, and then we call and make it extra orders for more wallet. So, um, so that makes it a really economical way to kind of, you know, market that we get an extra sale and you after you do you put your logo on those wallets that you've given? Yep, they're they're just like watermarked oh, it has the whole side just has nordstrom photo dot com up the side so he, uh, laurie, the so all the custom greetings yes, is that all? When you're built when they're building a package that you incorporate that in? Or is this something that comes later? It's just an ad on okay, okay, and and yes, we will they don't order that right at the time of, um they can order them any time, and I'll tell you whether it's a real kids event, whatever it is anybody that's been photographed with us from all year, we will tell them we've got your favorite selected, so when it gets close to the holidays, we've got him all together for you, and we can design a holiday card for you that's, even if we photograph them in march and so most people uh they're they're not going to think about using that march session for their holiday cards unless we tell them you know they're getting closer the holidays and they're making when themselves or their going to do a quickie holiday session with somebody and so instead I want to make sure they know when it gets close to the holidays you're going to get a reminder email we've got all your favorites tag so if you want to do a holiday card with us, we can get one designed for you and use your favorites so that's the only thing that they wouldn't purchase at the time of the session you but a couple more questions for you or if it works a lot of people are digging this product guide packaging hide do and a lot of people are asking, is there a place that you sell these? Yes, they are all the templates for everything that we do are on the website it's portrait event system dot com and you guys will have all the templates for everything. So um so hey home and yes, you guys will have this in your little goody bag that you don't know this coming but yes, that they are available in and like I told you guys yesterday for the viewing audience um those are available if if it makes anybody's life easier, they're not needed to start this you can see everything that we're doing, and so if you can create those pieces, it's great, but if it makes it easier for you, makes your life simpler could be able to just drop your images in and add your logo, then it's all ready to go for you and there's everything from products to pricing. Teo all the marketing pieces, all the studio pieces um, everything actually have one more question it's a couple people vast this a swell beauty of the lake and also w anderson and what a little bit more clarification on the build your own system says, do you always have to pick one too and three? Or do they sometimes say they don't want a multi image peace? Do they always you know, this is if I'm understanding correctly the build your own, you have to pick something from each category so that's kind of where people like one and two are one two and always three it's one to one, always three there, welcomed about to purchase from the ala carte menu, but if they want that package discount, then they're going to go through each step to create their own package. So and and this came from the way we do high school seniors. Our high school seniors have a build a collection and I think I did this steps before, but I'll do it again um and so and this is a pared down version of that but with our high school seniors it's step one is hang it up and that's for the wall step two is set it out and that's all they're smaller pieces up to eleven by fourteen I do include up to eleven by fourteen in the smaller pieces and while most people wouldn't put in eleven by fourteen on a tabletop, I don't want them thinking about that as a wall portrait I will hang them you know this is three eight by twelve you know, I I will put those on the wall but they need to be done in a grouping and so that's why step one says wall groupings or single image sixteen by twenty four or larger so they're not thinking about eleven by fourteen as a single wall portrait so step hang it up, set it out step three is mix it up and that's those multiple image pieces and then step for is make the cover and that's choosing their album. So for high school seniors we have three different styles of albums and they choose the album and no, they do not have to go through that that four step process they're welcome to purchase from our ala carte menu but when they when they look at it and look at what they want, by the time you in with her are our high school seniors it's not a discounted menu like I have here, and so there they actually get twenty percent off their order when they go through all four steps that's a substantial discount once they start adding everything up, and so we rarely rarely have a senior who doesn't go through all four steps because when you can sit with mom and you can say absolutely did not have to do that that's where you're going to see the most value, but you're welcome to order from our ala carte menu once she gets going and her daughter wants an album and you know she wants this or that? Well, they might as well throw in that multiple image piece and get that twenty percent off. They almost get it free a lot of times, so if you know if you can make it, make sense like that to your client it's always about them, you want to make sure that you're telling them that, you know, no problem. You're welcome to order from the ala carte menu, but this is where you're going to see the most value. And that makes sense to people okay that makes sense if I you know choose from here here and here if they get there and they say no I really don't want that no problem you could order from now our country are l a apartment the strategy to pricing it in a certain way is that if they're ordering from allah cart and they're getting a few things it makes sense to I just need to go over here and go with the flow because that's where it makes sense for me that's where I'm gonna get the value so whether it's packages build your own whatever it is any time you're giving a discount or you're giving a bonus or you know putting something into place we've got steps make sure that you're rewarding your client for where you want them to spend so instead you know if we want a five hundred dollars average we're not going to reward them for spending at three hundred with a great value at a package right um so does that make sense yes after me can I ask one question about your seniors where do your packages start with that like I mean you have that top package that's twenty five hundred dollars where is your base for seniors um I don't have actual packages put together it's all the builder collection thie only and we don't even consider that twenty five hundred won a package that's a session so on our sessions we've got a one, eighty five session with stacy we've gotta to eighty five session with laurie and then we've got the two thousand five hundred dollars session that includes stacy and lori stacy does video lori shoots and they get their video and an album and that we call it the rock star session and now is that priced similarly to build your own or is that higher? It's no always got the album is that they get in that is twelve hundred and then the video we charged two hundred dollars for my sessions to eighty five um I think there might even be a little bit of portrait credit in that as well I can't remember but yeah, however it is it's if they would've break break out what's included in that the only reason we put it there is because we decided we weren't going to do video for anyone unless they purchase that package and but just can't it's one of those things were you just put it out there, you know, that was one of the things that we just decided this year for our time we were not going to shoot video unless we were paid for it and so we just threw it out there we didn't know if anyone would even purchase it we just wanted that yes answer because now we've got videos floating all over facebook and you know, the high school seniors get excited about these these videos and and so we knew we'd be asked about it and we wanted to be able to say yes, but we're not just going to bring a videographer along just for kicks, you know? And so it's that yes, answer absolutely we would love to do video for you here's how you can get it and it does include those things, and I think they probably even save a little bit of money there, you know? But you are a discount with the build your own or is it just it's twenty percent off what I'd go with the reach step, they're gonna get twenty percent off their order, okay? All right, so all of these pieces are going to be part of your follow up and staying in in communication with your client. Those referral cards, the playdate cards, the thank you notes um, I always want to have those on hand so that we're we can write thank you notes all the time, way didn't even give our kids that were here. The little party favors that we do, but I've got just little cards that, um just they're just business card size sure, I have them in here that say something like loved your smile and we time on the lollipops and uh give the kids those we've got the branded water bottles and I don't have anyone more those out either we've had in the last couple of days and kind of filtered through those but I don't know maybe I don't have anything smaller cars in here but they're just little business sized cards that look like all the restless staff retired time on all right so putting this all into place who's scared we do you mind if we take more questions, sir? Segment before we serve? Yeah. Okay let's do that so well questions group one from mac attack are the wild sorbet frames as popular with the high school seniors as they are for little children? They are we and we do a lot of traditional we do also do a lot of campus rap with with high school seniors but in my sales room looks a lot like this I've got two couches you guys are the projector in front of me and it's just a cozy little living area it's a loft space and uh um to the left of the projection screen I've got a wild surveyed grouping of a high school senior girl and it's funny because before that was hung there the grouping that was to the left of my projection projection screen was the one I sold most and I switched it out recently to this high school senior girl and we have sold that grouping on the left side for whatever reason I don't know if that's just where people's eyes get drawn or what but then that now that grouping cells so I think it kind of goes back to your going toe sell what you show and we do bring all of our our senior families back into the studio to view and choose their images it's projected living room atmosphere smells good we've got stuff for them to eat and drink in, you know all that good stuff we even create a little box for each one of our high school seniors that on their profile sheet we asked them what's your favorite candy what's your favorite thing to drink was your favorite music we know we asked him all those things we've got that written down when they walk into the studio we've got on a pandora radio station based on their favorite song you know or their favorite band or whatever it is um we filled the little box with their favorite candy we've got their name on the front of it with our real seniors logo you know, all these things we want to personalize it for him, but the the you know they're going to be more grown up frames kind of like this one over here we're not doing bright colors and you know that kind of stuff but um you know I showed you guys the wild survey catalogued the other day there are so many options and they're even for formal family rooms you know that they're not all just kid looking so yes they they are popular there's a couple of patterns they have a cz well that are kind of that floor dolor heartily thank you pattern that that's really popular there's a floral one that's that's popular for the girls and mom's really dig it cause it blends in with their core and so right um tea and photo would like to know since yuzhin is so big how long are the videos generally thatyou it's a song a song ling yep, so three, four minutes write a question from bob flint do your custom prints that are mounted do those fit into a standard frame for example if somebody just wanted that, could they put it? Yes, they absolutely could. All of our size is pretty much our you know we've got eight by twelve instead of eight by tens you know, let my sixteen has had a lot of my fourteen but I do all the other sizes in between as well and so I'm always going to crop the image even when our client sits down with us and they're choosing sizes if they say I want to sixteen by twenty but it needs to be cropped teo sixteen twenty four I'm going to make that call and so you know if if they are framing it themselves sure I'll let him know are you okay with this being a sixteen twenty forest could be much better to the proportion of the image and we can crop it for them right there in preview so they're going to be able to see it at that size they'll be able to see what I'm talking about it is gonna be talked too much but you know I'm gonna suggest if it should be square if it should be a longer uh you know proportion but yes most of those sizes you can still find frames for okay um w anderson would like to know what the atmosphere that you set up would you have done the same thing if you were just a location shooter and didn't have video okay that is such a good question um and I will tell you this I strapped myself into an eight thousand square foot building four years ago so I don't have a choice but to be there and to work my butt off and make sure that I utilize every part of it if I could have a choice right now I'm gonna be honest with the entire world right now I would be all on location I think there's such huge huge value to being in someone's home that if I could do it over today that building would be gone you know and so would the mortgage uh with it and the responsibility of it um and I would be all location I always always sell more when I'm in someone's home so yes, we want to personalize the experience but if I am on linnaeus couch in her home we've already done this design session in her home tio even make suggestions over and above if I'm going to shoot in that home even better I'm gonna go shoot there I'm gonna walk around the house and make suggestions I'm gonna take my own pictures of the walls making suggestions I'm going to be into your designer in her house I'm going to choose the clothing for her I'm going to go to the closet take it out lay it out for her you know everything's going to be so personal and customized if you're on location use it to your advantage it's there are huge there's huge huge value in being on the location so yes and personalize it bring in you know make it like a little party bring in snacks if you you know if you want to bring in drinks um we always ask our clients with their favorite drinks our moms always question back d mean drink drink on way that we get that a lot and it's the midwest, you know? So they do they kind of want to know what well, what do you mean t what? You know, we want to know what you want to drink and you know, and if the answer is tea, water, whatever. That's great. We've got a cure, a coffeemaker. We could make single pot coffee. Um, but if they want, if they want wind, they get why they want here they get beer. If dad wants something crazy he's gonna get it. I mean, we want them to have exactly what they want. So, yes, even going into something someone's home, I would treat them to that. That is so encouraging to see a lot of us, like, way e I was so jealous of your studio going, but I don't have a studio, and then you just made my day. Would you bring the drinks to their house, sir? Take a little picnic basket and trade in paris and assistant, wouldn't it? I mean, wouldn't you think having another person on hand to do that kind of help you out with that would be an advantage, but just to take, like, you know, because, you know, yeah, I've never worked with an assistant a cheese plate you seriously could and you know what? There are people that will work with you to do that, you know, find your local wine store and they'll put together a little cheese plate in a bottle of wine for you and do it at a discount for you to be marketing to their next new client you know they also make the que dis little wine bags or like leopard but they're hard cases like a personal if you see a little snap and you you told your wine there's kind of a cute little thing to take a wine person lately and you know in all those situations make your client your friend you know you're getting to know them you're spending time with them it's not just sitting down and let's get to business you know you're doing that but you're enjoying each other as well and getting to know each other and you know and and that's a good thing I used to be really nervous about that now I think if they get to be my friend they're going to take advantage of me and there but it's so not the case people want those relationships they crave those relationships and they want to be taken care of you know I mean it's it's total advantage to be on location so lots of people are very happy to hear that thank you think one way so I'd like to ask you a couple more questions we on that and one is from but sharon long yahoo says if you're on location how do you show the clients the images I have had a hard time finding a good space to project the images in clients, homes, great question and that's another one of those things that when we went digital and everybody went to projection, it was still in that mind set of I've got to sell the wall portrait, so I've got a project this big because if they only see it this big that's, how they're going to buy, that was our mindset, but now with the tools we have weak, I mean, being in somebody's home when you can, before I had even the the wall tool for the for the wall that you could go stick on there and we're measuring and preview and all those things I would just take a measuring thing with me, I would hold it out to their space and I would say, does this look about right? So I'm going to fill that much space, you know, and what being able to be in their house, take a laptop with you, you could even taken high pad it doesn't matter as long as you're with them and you're able to walk through and make suggestions you're able to measure space there is I mean, you can sell with anything he sold your phone I mean, it does not matter it's all about that personal experience there you're giving to them and making those suggestions suggest suggest suggest you know and believe that they want it they want your suggestions and you know and that's why people they hire it a hairstylist and sit in the chair and say do whatever you want you know what you know what do you think my hair would look best at when ugo and would it be okay dark you know you're gonna want to ask those questions um when we go in we're buying ah a nice dress for a formal event we want that person in the room telling us which one looks better on us we don't believe ourselves we're going to believe them you know that's what that's their job that's your specialty so same thing with us when when were hired to do a job we should take the point of being the expert they want our suggestions that it's part of this whole whole thing is you know, if we're going to put their other cells out there as professional photographers take the stance of being a professional and give them really what they deserve absolutely to follow that up because I was never sure what to do here is because I would shoot on on location in people's homes best shot says do you hand deliver the final product or do they have to pick it up so say you don't have a studio I always felt like I needed to go and hand deliver and that's a lot of time yep and expense especially and you could do it I mean if you offer delivery I think that's an amazing added value and added service that you could give but you gotta move making sure you're charging for it that's what that's all you know that that's part of your entire packages of your business I'm going to come to you I'm gonna help you with your clothing suggestions I'm gonna help you with your personal props elections I'm gonna walk around and make suggestions for the proper placement and presentation of your images when we're done you know you're giving them all this added value and just communicating it part of it is even going to be I'm gonna hand deliver everything to you so that you've got everything in it's safe um if you want to do the installation you wanna hang it we talked about that yesterday you know that's another added service but no it doesn't have to be that way you know if you would rather just have them pick it up someplace but a lot of times you might need to work with uh a local framer maybe that's where they pick it up that's the final destination if you don't want people to come into your home you know whatever it is there's there's a lot of times that you can work out a partnership with another business maybe that isn't even a framer but someone that you know what childrens furniture store or clothing store you know what? It might be one your clients that has a retail location that would love to have the right people walking in her door to pick up their portrait's and while they're there they're going to see lots of other things they love you know so there's ways to work around that if you don't have you know don't be afraid of I cannot let them come to my house but I don't have the time to deliver another thing I'm just one other option to go along with that I love part time employees part time employees are you know when you work they work you're not responsible for feeding a family you know you're not responsible for insurance and some of those other things but I in the past have had people that just came like every tuesday I would have somebody that came and did framing and packaging and with that the system was in place that every thursday was my order day so I'd place all the orders from the weak and then I knew everything including campuses whatever would be back from the lab by tuesday so that was the day that my person came in and it was a high school senior student that came in and did all the framing and all the packaging on tuesdays you could do the same thing with a delivery person you know whether it's for an event and you're delivering it all back to the host mom's house for people to pick up or delivering to individual clients hire somebody that just delivers and he could probably find somebody pretty inexpensive they've even a high school student okay um lloyd would like to know if you don't have a studio um you know what would you travel with us far is showing them and that would be the same thing that I travel with when I go to an event and we haven't even talked about that I can't believe no one's asked that yet yeah so I do take it I take a basket and I just have a large basket I always make want to make sure that I have a sample of everything and so I'll take at least one frames peace and if it's not if it's a mom that I've already worked with a lot of times we've got things hanging in her home so it's not I don't have to take the frame pieces if I've never worked with her before she doesn't have anything on her wall then I'm definitely gonna bring it for framed piece the frame corners and the catalog is our enough um so don't think that you know if you want to go this direction don't feel like you have to buy every single thing before your first event you know by a selection of the frame sticks you I told you guys yesterday if you want to buy a package tana has them on sale for you so you can start you can show one finished along with the sticks and the smaller pieces as well on wild sorbet but if nothing else gets some colors take a catalogue along you can show it that way I take an image box and both of the sizes of albums and accordion album I take uh um and some of the printed pieces and that's about it uh and I actually am really surprised no one has asked about putting prices online let me ask that I was trying to tell him that he needed to ask the question you should ask that during workshopped way that we had discussed ways have not discussed that and I was just reminding me that of, um what's that well, I think this is a little bit different, but we were wondering if there's ever if it's ever in context tohave galleries online for people to order online and if you are still it's your heart, you might put that online if you care. So now we're having two different conversations, so don't let me forget one of the other um let's talk about first because we did talk about this at lunch, about having images online for your clients to order um if you're doing a like a social event or a ball game something like that where you've got lots of people coming to look at images, put him on line don't waste your time with that yes, put him on line let people order that way weddings I should always have my wedding's paid for in advance that means I'm not going to count on those aunt jane and uncle bob five by seven orders for making money. Okay, so guess weddings get your upfront payment make it include the album, all the things that you want to sell put him online afterwards let it and jane and uncle bob I there's stupid five by sevens who cares? Um for your regular portrait sales for your event portrait sales don't put him online, you're going to die. Um, I have had people in the past who have said who have maybe come from a long ways and said, can't you put them online or I've had people that have said, um, you know, for whatever reason uh, my answer to the question of, well, my mom's going to want to buy something, grandma, grandma jane's gonna want to buy something? Can you put them all in line for her to see my answer her is going to be you know what? Why don't we find out what size grandma is gonna want and then we'll go head to make a selection for her and then every image order is going to be placing an online gallery that after the order their order is put into gallery for them to view share with friends whatever they want teo so we're gonna tell him every image order's gonna be placed on an online gallery for you and if grandma wants to change out her five by seven which is what it's going to be maybe an eight by ten um and honestly when I say it's they ask that question because I don't know anything else they ask you well, where you gonna be able to put them online? Because my great my mom's gonna want to buy something is as well as soon as I say well, let's go ahead and find out what size your mom wants she's going to say oh, she wants to buy ten she gives an eight by ten of all the grandkids where she wants to buy buy seven you know, whatever it is she knows already it's just that all she knows to ask is well, you know, can you put him on here? And so we are giving you that option if if we're gonna put it everything you order on an online gallery if she wants a switch out with another one of your favorites that's totally fine we can do that for you um you know, so that's my answer to that if somebody says, um you know anything like that I'm gonna tell him any of image order is going to be placed on it on an online gallery freed of you and share with your friends and family um the only circumstances that I've ever made that have not been sitting right next to me I've done a skype call with and done a screen chair and I still do preview justus if they were sitting right beside me so they're seeing my previous screen I'm designing with them we're using their walls were going through everything together and that is only going to be for the client that you know, I flew to seattle and I photographed a family and now I'm flying home and I can't meet right back with them so um the sky calls are awesome you guys for consultation calls as well um we've been using them for high school seniors and that makes it a really fun thing for them that they get toe you know kind of see you and you get to see them and some of their personality as well before they come in um but it works great for moms to when you're getting to know them before a family session or anything else use our technology can I just clarify that the wind it item is the order item is on the online gallery are the prices then the same that are in the packages? Are those images available matted or are those just prince how do they dare not online for a purchase at all? Okay, so you're just reviewing them and then they would phone you to make that order they're not make they vote or in order they like the ordering if grandma wants to see them like when you're saying oh she's only seeing what's what has already been ordered out know what I'm saying is that she wants additional like if one of you has never gonna want additional only only simply for show then whatever they've ordered it's what it is is my yes answer can you put them online? Absolutely every image you order we're going you're gonna have your own password protected gallery that you khun vue share with friends showed a your hubs whatever. Okay, that's where what do you host those with? Just my website hosted on your web site under the client websites and this? Yes s o they can't order them in in any way, shape or form online? No. Okay that's what? I just said it was getting confused so thank you glad to clarify I want the price no prices on there oh, right oh that's the other questioning online way yes and that again is that's uh personal thing there are people that will say I want my prices online because I want people to see them before they call before they can so they're not shocked by prices I'd rather not even have him call if they're not willing to spend this much money from my perception they anything is too much money unless the values there and so someone that is whether their price shopping whether there they've come a za referral it doesn't matter if they get to your your website and they see a list of prices the only reason to post prices is if you're competing on price if you're not competing on price don't show those prices it is not going to make sense to anybody even your ten dollars five by seven I don't know what you're charging but just with nine ninety nine but even the person not kristin who's charging ten dollars for five by seven there's somebody that's going there saying, well, I can get that for two dollars if I go to wal mart you know there is somebody that will say that it's it's too much you know if we have not established value in their minds it's it's too much so I would never ever put you know my suggestion and again it's a personal thing there's no right or wrong only what's right for you but in my world I can't do that that's huge confirmation because I have been tossing around the idea of pulling that whole section of my website completely offline I wa well no way this is like a meeting of my friends teo like that but the monthly meetings are coming in fast I develop my eye fell off the bandwagon and I sold it print five dollars way have any something online we need to address before we won I think we can keep moving and we can't ask you questions hearing here all right planning and scheduling the huge first step to putting this all in place and we've been touching points on scheduling that ijust wantto kind of start back with saying that every part of your workflow should be scheduled and that that is when you can really look at your calendar and say okay I'm gonna shoot on tuesday wednesday thursday eleven and one I'm gonna plan an event one day a month you know what whatever your situation is whatever is right for you you decide not your client and when you do that if you can then also say especially if you're a one man show if you can say here's what I'm going to photograph the session here's what I'm going to do my editing here's what I'm gonna do my order appointment here's what I'm going to place the order to the lab and here's what I'm going to do my packaging if it's all on the calendar and then you also have time set aside for social media for marketing, for education, you know, whatever it is, if you can get those things all booked on your calendar, you can literally see in black and white when you can take another session, because what happens is we get so excited about somebody calling and where we book sessions, we back sessions, and then we wonder why we're editing at two o'clock in the morning and we all do it, you know? But if we really planned wait, I've been there, we if we really planned that schedule from start to finish, we could literally see in black and white, okay, this is when I could do this, this is what I can do that so we've got a color coded calendar, so each separate the workflow has a different color to it, so I can look and I can say, okay, I'm gonna be editing at this time I'm gonna be shooting at this time I'm going to selling at this time, and then when you start bringing on team members, you can start assigning those different tasked to them, and I would even suggest that as you're pulling this altogether, and if you're like me, this is not easy it's not easy to want teo micromanage your your schedule like that but it's necessary if you're going to be profitable it's necessary if you're going to put a system in place because you have to you have to management and you have to look at it as your business and not your fun photography habit you know I you know for me I I don't even do photography for fun anymore it's not fun for me I need to make money for it to be fine, you know and so which makes it makes our vacation suffer a little you know? I mean hi photograph jackson's ballgames and maybe someday when I'm seventy five I might be able to go back through the image is sad but it's true we you know, if if I'm not making money at this I do not want to do it and so so I've had teo micro manage this thing and I definitely you know leading up to here george called me one month ago and said, can you come to creative live november seventeenth? Well, I'm gonna be out of the country for ten days, you know right before that I'm gonna be doing this I've got flipped out spitting and I was thinking okay in the next two weeks before november first I have to have every single thing done for the holidays forgetting eleanor for company creative live I mean, I was like a crazy person and you know and so I mean I was doing all nighters you know, it's not like but but at some point it becomes a choice that you make and not this life that you're living because you do have no schedule and you have no plan so um step one ten are recovering from way also don't want teo have a proper way step to wait we have a problem but really the first thing to do is to get a handle on that schedule and you decide when you're going to work you know and all of us have different lifestyles different things that are important to us what's important to you this comes next you know um and then we have to run a business and yes we love photography yes for creatives yes, this is so much a part of us that it hurts to raise our prices it hurts because I'm saying that I'm worth more than I'm charging and that is a hard thing for us to spit out and but but we have to do it we have to make those business decisions and the rest of us talked about this the other day but I'll put it out there to the rest of you that you know, if you were opening up a retail location and you were selling jeans and you're selling sweaters and you were selling hair accessories whatever you would say this is the industry mark up and this is what this is worth you know, excuse me we have a retail product that is what we do um yes, we're invested into what what is going on in this product however you know so so is the cake decorator in the florist and the hair stylist and you know and all these other people but if we are a retail and service oriented business and you have to think about it as a business, what is your time worth in your business? What is your business worth and really if you're not willing teo earn a respectable income and profit so that you can earn a respectable income then you really should get a great job and do photography for fun because, you know, I mean, it should be fun and it's not anymore when when we're drudging along and not make any money and hurting our families not charging enough and we beat ourselves up after a session anyway when we get there and we've put our heart and soul into it and then we sit down with somebody and well, what would you like? And they don't know what to say so they say four by six is in five by sevens and great big eight by tens that's all they know and then we go home heartbroken, you know? So we beat each other or ourselves up that way so don't beat yourself up the other way by saying, you know what? This is what my time is worth this's what my product is worth and take you out of the equation and think about what you're doing for those families think about what you're doing for that you know, the couple that's here today creating the memories and seeing dad just those kids crawl over him and love on him and, you know, capturing those moments for them and then giving them something beautiful to enjoy every single day when they walked by it and you know, when I tell people that you know, this is something that's going to make you smile every time you walk past it and I say that a lot in the order appointment and it's not it's, not a line it's not a sales tactic, it is my true hearts belief that this is bringing thes people joy we're creating memories were creating an experience we're creating you know, something that they can treasure for always and when you know, you know, you know, because everyone tells us the media tells us the newspapers, the newscasters when there's ah horrible disaster people are grabbing their photographs, they're grabbing their albums, they're great crapping their port it's all off the walls, they'll take those things before anything else, they'll leave everything behind, but they have to have their pictures and you know and think about that before you go into a session and really what that is that you're giving those people you know take you out of it there isn't anything that I would want to go and listen teo over and over finding on behalf of people online who are saying like vfx by art great speech laurie thank you mean tio thank you so planning it scheduling any questions about scheduling I know it's a place we all struggle have won and stick to yeah how how about the self discipline I mean like that that is what I struggle with is just is because my life is so crazy because I have two tiny kids and no I was just thinking as you're saying the importance of pictures that you know parents of small children the pictures give them the ability to you know, to remember that they actually love these little people want to kick into next week they're driving them off the wall um I mean self the self discipline part is it is huge because I don't have a boss I my I am my own boss and so how do you how do you keep focused we're all our own bosses and it's hard to keep focus I mean its daily and part of it's putting rituals in place you know, getting up in and working out or getting up in reading for twenty minutes or whatever your you know way to really start your day isn't to stay focus there are some things like that are that are so important and we all get so busy being busy that we like those things go and you know, even putting that into your calendar I'm gonna be awake by this time means I have to be asleep by this time you know instead of at the computer till one o'clock in the morning so I've got an excuse next morning and I can't work out you know um but putting those rituals in places one putting it actually on your calendar that's part of that scheduling and that was where years ago I had to literally go into my calendar and say session session session session and you can on ly book a session in my studio where I have said you can book a session and I don't book them anymore and so and I had to be that clear to my staff to be able to say if it's not on here is laurie will do a session then laurie's not going to session you know and and that's ah that's a thing that's a disciplined guest I mean, I I kind of can't answer the phone a lot of time is because I do get talked into stuff um I do owe, you know and somebody calls in for instance, the gentleman that called about that sunday session um, you know, that was me answering the phone going, I really went and I did. I'm so glad I did that session, but you know, it's that it's that that every other call that comes and you definitely have to get that language down, you have to have those answers about, you know, how long's it been since you have had a family session? Yeah, this is really important for me the biggest reason and have its completely also in my other business and my five minutes for mom, I am so bad about putting a scheduled in place just the same reason I'm bad about a budget, it I don't want the truth, I don't want the truth because the truth, I can't handle the truth. The truth is I don't have enough time to get it all down. I don't physically there are not enough hours in the day to get it all done, and if I put it on the calendar, then I'm gonna have to say no to that client because I can't physically get it all done, but I don't want to deal with that truth, so I'll tell them I can and then I'll stay up all night and you know, on all that you're telling you, buddy, because I feel the cycle, which is ridiculous. I have to deal with the trip so just like the budget which I'm still not going but at least I'll do the counter help while I'm walking to the budget of the county dude calendar have tio otherwise I'm gonna die actually do you know having a schedule I mean I came again I came you know, a corporate environment so on and I lived and breathed by my outlook calendar so um and actually by having the schedule and sticking to it it'll give you more time that's that so just through so that is a very good point okay, I'm gonna write that down but it is sir and it helps you learn to delegate and that's the other thing it's it's very hard for all of us to delegate we all kind of have that personality I know on the exact same way it's it's that idea that by the time I get I tell somebody else how to do it, I might as well have just done it myself or I'm only one who could do this right? So you know, but there are certain things and when you're going to hire somebody um we've talked chris and I have talked a little bit about this, but when it's time to hire staff you know, make a list of everything you do every single thing you do every job that you do in the studio from cleaning to, you know, organizing, emailing, answering the phone everything make make that list and then start prioritizing that list and decide thes air the things that only I can do things these air the things that I hate to do, the things I love to do, this there's things I can outsource, delegate whatever it is, and as you go through that list, there are some hard things. When I first gave up editing my head of images, that was a hard thing for me, but then I realized how much time it gave me back in my life and it's so worth the money to delegate it or outsource it. There are a lot of things that are worth outsourcing all of our design products I can you know, I can design all these, I could do it all, um do our holiday cards all that stuff I charge a forty five dollar design fee for any design piece that way, if I'm not going to do it if I'm outsourcing it it's paid for I've paid for that person's commission to do it. Um cleaning is something that I haven't done in ten years, I wish is, you know, there's there's good and bad about that um when there's weeks that my cleaning person doesn't come, my house is and get clean so there's good and bad but I realized a long time ago that if I can pay somebody else fifteen dollars an hour, twenty dollars an hour to come and clean my time is much more and you know, better invested doing something else for my business than it is to be cleaning so a cleaning person I'm telling you all you can say it's for me and my five minutes for mom you know, that's why I'm sitting here is because we finally grew to that place in the beginning we had to do everything ourselves but the reason I'm now able to focus more on the photography because right now somebody else is doing all that work I used to teo so lovely and you know that you could find the other aspects of your business that you know now hear if you're teaching and your doing these things but you wouldn't be able to do if you were sitting home editing hey laura did you have a question because she did a why question a while back and it was about when you go on location teo to shoot a family if you go in their home and there's drunks and there's clutter around how you get good photography and somebody else's home take him outside okay what if it's raining though so some take umbrellas you go outside, you got the right so do you have any tricks for doing endure um shoes from home yeah and suit tight you know change your level so for instance if they've got that they've got junk on the floor and there on this couch then you're going to lower your level so you're shooting back you know, off the floor um I have I've got up on a balcony and photograph down on the couch on families and you know to get rid of different elements around but there's always even if it's raining there's usually a porch there's usually an open garage door that you can get into you know, garages have usually blank walls unless it's somebody that has completely cluttered everything but uh not you d'oh but but there's always something you know I have put kids up on the kitchen counter before and photograph because that's where the best light wass what's that you say is so much fun a lot of they love it make sure you have your insurance policies have you put children encounters so but that's that's just something to get in the habit in a cz well when you get to somebody's home um just expect that you're gonna have to go in and let them know I'm gonna just scout around first if that's okay for you I'm gonna look for the spots of the best light it'll probably surprise you where those spots are and that way if there's junk everywhere the ari said it is going to surprise you where I'm gonna put you today you know and you've said it in a very positive way so that's always the first time you get to a portrait event first time you get to somebody's house for a location session whatever it is just tell him if it's okay with you I'm just going to scott around what happens when you do that is you're going to find cool things to pull into the images as well, you know, tell me about this piece or tell me about you know, something that you see and then they'll tell you this story and now that they told you the story once it's in an image that image means that much more to them thanks. Okay um some other uh some other product lines that you could apply portrait events too we're going to add grandparent's at the top of that list and then we're gonna talk about seniors these air seniors obviously for me and this is the only other thing really that I've considered adding this to in my studio and that's because I can call a high school senior that has done well with us her family cast coming in for a session they've been great clients, they know the system, I can call that person and say I'm so excited for you you're graduating going on college how would you feel about planning something and inviting ten of your junior friends and you're going to get all your pictures for free and so it's a it's a great way for her to invite people that are potential future clients for me and um we can you know, celebrate this girl's neck stage in life she's made a lot of changes during her senior year so she's gonna be excited about having pictures again and we're getting to hurt invite qualified people because she knows the system she knows how much her mom spent you know she knows how much she loved her images so we're you know, calling back on these people teo bring us the next new clients in so it's reuses think for me it's your photo shoot free just the sitting or all the products as well as she is a host will get a free session and fifty dollars per girl that she brings in toward toured with high school seniors you have to require that they have a mom with them when they come it can't get us can't be bringing your girlfriends, you know, it is ah whole process and we do do the same cut type of consultation, the whole thing with them so it's almost a kind of variation of a model program because they're being invited by a past senior with us and they're getting in before anybody else does we're using those images as marketing and, you know letting them shot up to their friends we get um all rep cards thes two things on the left I don't know why those are both amanda's I guess there that's a popular name um me and uh but uh there uh those are our rep cards on the back of it it has a fifty dollar reports a credit to the studio so they can go and give those out to their friends and it gives them a fifty dollar keep on when they come back um so seniors is one bridal party is another if you're doing weddings and you're thinking you want to start branching out and doing some portrait it's a great way to either go back to your past brides and do a fun girls night out or bring your bridal party back together you're married now it's a new phase in life let's get the girls back together and do a fun um fun get together for them like a post wedding party um you could also do it before the wedding where it's all the girls in the bridal party they all come for girls night out get photographed you hosted do the wine let him have fun um a lot of times with those um my friend ks courage and arizona she runs celebrate sexy is the name of her bird boudoir division of her company and she's an awesome job she does these girls night outs and she brings in girls they all come together they she actually shows them the images that night they do they buy her products like a little black book she does and she does the image boxes as well um and some other products that are geared specifically towards the girls night out but when she gets them together and she's got hair and she's got makeup in there drinking their wine and you know getting photographed and they're egging each other on you know you gotta buy that you gotta have this and those are very profitable for her because it's a girlfriend thing you know? And no, we all know you get your girlfriends together and start being silly and trying to be sexy and you know what I think it is it's a fun time and we will spend money you know, it's just like going to the pampered chef party oh you're getting that I'll get that too, you know, um and so all those things work that's not my thing I don't do that in my studio but it would work great it's a great concept uh, families I choose not to do families because I want families in my studio but this portrait event system would work great for family sessions to be able to book him like that another thing uh, we use the same concept anytime that I'm doing, like if I'm gonna go photograph out of a country club or high end daycare or school or we're doing a family portrait day, we use the same exact concept. We're lining up families every thirty minutes we're doing the sail immediately following handling everything uh, that day, the reason they're profitable is because we're planning with them beforehand were doing the consultations beforehand, even when it's a line him up session day, it makes all the difference in the world and it's a hard thing to do the first couple times you know, but it's so write it down, decide what you're going to say, decide how that conversation is going to go and then do it, and you'll find that once you do what once or twice the reaction that you get from people is so positive that it's it just gets easier and easier. It's definitely not easy the first time it's horrific the first time you show your images immediately after a session, you just got to say, I'm going to try it, what do I have to lose? Um, digital? I've got that exclamation point there because that's our big digital dilemma, but but you could definitely do this whole portrait event system around a digital product, and again is if that's what you feel you're strong product is you feel like that's what your marketplace wants do it but just make sure your priced appropriately so that your profitable doing it um having won that's all centred around toddlers every time I see the word tots I think of napoleon dynamite huh? But you know little kids you could even confine it more than I have for the being the kids ages you could make it be just toddlers or pre teens I mean that's another thing that should go up there is I mean that's a huge marketplace right now the little tweeners you know, that age they now all have iphones they all have I mean it's crazy they even I'll have now in the schools all these kids have their own laptops and, you know, even us and winterset, iowa town of fifty, five hundred people, the kids starting in junior high all have their own mac books and you know, they all tech savvy they're all into all this stuff the girls are getting older and older, younger and younger, unfortunately, but you know, you get now when we do family sessions I talked to the moms if they've got a girl anywhere from like nine to thirteen she's gonna want wallets to be able to give to her friends at school and then those wallets turned into another little girl going I want I want a session, I want to have this done, and so then, you know, we're and so doing a portrait mint just based around that age, I think would be really, really, uh, popular. And then, of course, the pets you could do definitely do a pet event, um, and get that market going, if that's your thing, hilary, I'd be a lot of horse photography because my girl's ride horses through for age and that's a really good market to is to have this type of event just back to back off, and I'll just bring in their hillary mayberry photography, okay? Hillary mean, very she's, a very wonderful horse photographer had yep, awesome. And, you know when to do that when you're getting really specialized like that, you know, just horses or just, you know, whatever, make sure you've got some special products that it really will appeal to that product line, whatever it is and incorporate those things, and those are even things that you can do is whether it's an ad on or included in when you purchase a package. When you do the builder collection, you're going to get this and make it be that thing that that gotta have item that's special for that group.